GB Community Game of the Generation - Mass Effect 2

Looks like a solid bracket, although there are some glaring omissions (e.g. Dishonored).

It doesn't, but it sure as hell doesn't bother explaining itself for quite some time beyond basic plot threads. Who are these people? What are these words you're throwing around? What's the context here? Why should I care?

If you've finished the game, these things might be more obvious. But I just bought it this summer and played about ten hours of it. Is it a good game? Why, yes, as a game it doesn't deserve anywhere near the hate that it gets. Does it belong anywhere near a Game of the Generation list? Absolutely not. There's little to no exploration, the story isn't terribly clear, the pacing is not all that great, the battle system is fun but far too rigid and controlled in terms of leveling and what you get, etc. The latter half of the game would have to include some really brilliant storytelling, great mechanics, and spectacular locales to make up for the first bit and I just don't see that happening.

Now, I have been playing FFXII, and if that had come out this generation, I'd be listening. So where's Video Game King to tell me that it plays itself too much?

Now that I've mentioned that, I need to say that Sleeping Dogs won't win out over GTA V and that makes me weep. Seriously. This keyboard is going to get waterlogged. Sleeping Dogs is a tight, smart, funny, interesting, well-told story and its gameplay is equal in quality to its story. GTA V is fun, but its story is too loose, its characters kind of inconsistent, and its controls too janky.

It just dawned on me that one particular aspect of games was pushed forward more than just about anything else this generation. Namely storytelling. I'm not saying that there weren't good to great stories in the previous gen but they were fewer and far between. I think one of the prerequisites for finalists needs to be that they possess a solid story. There were certainly leaps in game play design but so many amazing game stories came out on these consoles and it would be depressing if the winner and runner-ups don't have great narratives attached to them.

I wasn't really paying attention to the main bracket and just saw the singular head to heads polls pop up in the forums but after seeing the Bioshock vs. Mirrors Edge I'm kind of thinking, maybe there should of been a poll for the actual starting round list?

I hate to be a dick, (trying not to be at least) but some of these first round head to head match ups plain old don't make no sense. Usually in the past 'Best of' types I've seen you compare like to like and then when it's in the last stages things go mental and you're comparing rhythm games to RPG's, not in the first round...

• Red Dead Redemption vs. Team Fortress 2?? - An open world wild west third person shooter vs a cartoonish class based FPS?
• MGS4 vs. Geometry Wars?? - A stealth game action game vs a twin stick shooter?
• Portal 2 vs. Deadly Premonition?? - A first person puzzle games vs a third person 'horror' game?
• Fable II vs. Rockband?? - a fantasy RPG vs a music rhythm game?
• Skyrim vs. Left 4 Dead?? - an open world fantasy RPG vs a zombie team based FPS?

Talk about apples and oranges, this is more like apples to....Martians or something that isn't a food stuff. Do two Bioshocks really need to be in there? Bioshock vs Infinite? Call of Duty vs Dead Space? Assassins Creed vs Bayonetta?

Some of these make sense. Yeah LoL vs Dota. Braid vs Fez. Minecraft to Nuts and Bolts (I see the relation there, building stuffs), XCOM to Valkyria (action strategy). Batmn to Hitman when I first saw it I thought wha? but that fits, they're both third person stealth games using take downs and such.

But yeah man, this list be crazy 'yo.

@zolroyce: Isn't that the whole point of this list though, in the choosing? To think things over and having to make those tough decisions. With this list you just might not like a certain genre and then the other game wins by default, its a cop out. I don't like rhythm games so therefore Fable II is automatically a better game than Rock Band? That's badumb.

@razielcuts: There's not enough games to have a perfect match for each one. If we're going to choose a single game of the generation anyway, we're going to run into weird match-ups at some point.

@leonshade: Yeah but that'll happen later and at that point it'll be the best of those genres.

Ah, Red Dead Redemption vs Dark Souls will be the final anyway so who cares how we get there I guess.

I'll echo what I said before. Some very odd choices in there. I'll just pretend the franchises whose games the deciders chose incorrectly were actually chosen correctly. Hopefully the really bad games (Deadly Premonition... seriously?) get out in the first round and don't stay around for humor.

But... Sleeping Dogs is in there, so how can I complain too much? Also League for Dota 2 in the first round makes me chuckle.

So glad Ghost Trick won it's poll.

@razielcuts: Not sure if you're kidding, but with the bracket as it is Red Dead vs Dark Souls literally can't be the finals.

Crusader Kings II has very little chance of doing well in this, but thanks for making sure it has absolutely zero chance by putting it up against Mass Effect 2.

Here's some other observations:

• I will lose absolutely all faith in the GB forums - and possibly humanity - if Dark Souls beats BioShock in Round 3, or if BioShock doesn't make it that far. I am preparing myself for disappointment; not only is Dark Souls insanely popular, but it's also been very visible and relevant on the site recently. It's almost as if this whole thing was timed perfectly to ensure victory...
• The fight for the #7 3rd slot is brutal: The Walking Dead, The Last of Us, and Saints Row The Third are all fan favourites, but I'd assume that The Last of Us will win, based on its more recent release and its huge acclaim. Of the three, I think it's the best game. However, I'll be pretty bummed if any of these games beats Skyrim in the quarter-finals, or if Skyrim falls along the way, probably to GTAV, Journey, or Dead Space.
• Braid is obviously an important and magical game, but it has some big AAA competition in its bracket. If it can beat Fez for the indie darling crown, it has to face Batman: Arkham Asylum, Dragon Age: Origins/BioShock Infinite/Borderlands, and then StarCraft II/MGS4/Portal 2/Dota 2 before the semi finals. I'll generally be interested to see how the indie games do generally against the flashier, bigger budget AAA games.
• Of the four Game of the Years winners in Giant Bomb's history in the tournament (GTAIV was dropped for GTAV), if they win all their matches, Uncharted 2 will battle XCOM: Enemy Unknown in the third round, and Mass Effect 2 will battle Skyrim in the semis. The winner of these two match-ups can then theoretically play each other in the final.
• Of the GOTY winners, Mass Effect 2 has the easiest route to the semis - Crusader Kings II, probably Burnout Paradise, probably AC: Brotherhood or Gears of War 3, and probably Super Mario Galaxy or Fallout 3.
• XCOM: Enemy Unknown has the hardest route to the semis - Valkyria Chronicles shouldn't be too hard, but then it's Red Dead Redemption, Uncharted 2, and then Dark Souls. Good luck, commander. We will be watching.
• Blizzard and Valve have battled each other in the law courts this generation over the rights to DOTA, but now they might also do battle in the Giant Bomb community. StarCraft II will probably fight Portal 2 in the second round, and if SCII wins, there's a chance it'll then face the usurper Dota 2 in the third round. But first, Dota 2 has to get through MGS4, so it's no sure thing, by any means.

I can understand why it would be disappointing if a lot of mechanic focused games with bad stories were very successful, but your comment completely disqualifies a ton of important genres, basically all except adventure games, FPSs, RPGs, and I guess platformers. Do Team Fortress 2, Minecraft, Street Fighter 4, Civilization 5, Burnout Paradise, and Rock Band really have less of a right to win just because the developers didn't feel the need to tack perfunctory single-player narrative-driven campaigns into them?

You'll also get wildly different opinions on what constitutes a "solid story" - BioShock Infinite has proved to be especially polarising as regards its narrative since release. Also, what really constitutes a story? Are we only talking about a cinematic narrative? Does Super Mario Galaxy really have a story, or just a paper thin premise for its gameplay, see also XCOM: EU, Borderlands, and Banjo-Kazooie: N&B.

Sup?

Dota 2 vs LoL is going to be a clusterfuck of flame. And I'll be stuck there with sophies choice..... I can't in good conscience pick either. T.T

Also I just realised Bayonetta is going to potentially fight AC:B, ME2, and Fallout 3/Witcher 2. Welp, suddenly lost faith in my personal favorite leaving the starting zone.

I don't really see the connection between a lot of games. Like, why is Crusader Kings up against Mass Effect 2 or MGS4 vs Geometry Wars. Shouldn't they at least be paired up against something more similar?

@atlas: Cinematic narrative may have been a better way to put it. The way we've evolved stories in games through technical achievement of seamless environmental and game play transitions has been at the peak of my experiences with these consoles. In addition to that we've been given some damn great writing and the best voice work and performance capture that games have ever produced. I know it feels wrong to focus on something that sort of invokes the "triple A" moniker but I think without those games developers would never aim higher to craft an experience that truly lasts for generations.

Time to see if i know the GB community as much as i think i do.

My predictions:

Dark Souls and Red Dead Redemption will tear each other apart in the quarterfinals with Red Dead Redemption going through. From there it's smooth sailing to the final.

Mass Effect 2 and Skyrim will face-off in the semifinals and Mass Effect 2 will go through.

Mass Effect 2 will take it against Red Dead Redemption.

Note that all those votes will be incredibly close and you could mix winners and losers around.

P.S: I'm almost as sure of my predictions as i am that none of those games will actually make it this far.

Somehow I didn't think you'd actually show up.

Though, just as a note, I've found it pretty satisfying to play around with the gambits I have set up to see if I can clear an entire room with nothing but moving the analog stick. I just find that pretty satisfying, plus I'm just automating the actions that I would repeat over and over anyway. And I have no clue how you could claim that the game plays itself during boss battles.

EDIT: Also this is way off topic so I won't spend too much time on it.

@atlas: I think that a Game of the Generation should sum up some of that generation's most notable achievements, hence why I think Mass Effect 2 deserves the award.

You enter a room and you just let the gambits handle the battles for you? I must admit it's been a long time since I've played the game. Then again, don't remember liking what I've played of it, for reasons that we all know about.

And this is perhaps the only time I've seen somebody attempt to defend the game as fun and enjoyable, rather than say that it lets you deal with the fact that most of the game is essentially filler.

@video_game_king: Ultimately, my argument for FF12 is that I feel engaged in the story, interested in the world, and entertained by the combat. Being given free reign to run around anywhere really helps.

EDIT: I typed that on a phone and it kinda sucks :(

Anyway, I want to write more on this game later, it's too off-topic here to give it its proper due.

Wait, there's no Pokémon game on that list?

Particularly given some of the inclusions there, that's a really weird decision.

Just put up a poll for Mass Effect 2 vs Uncharted 2 and let's be done with this.

Please remove Heavy Rain, my 5 year old niece can write a more coherent story than David Cage.

@believer258 said:

I guess so, but defining what is and what isn't a notable achievement is complicated, and there are often positive along with negative ramifications. Asking the question of what defined this generation of consoles is going to get so many different and often contradictory answers that just making it a binary system of which game ticks the most boxes is a) arbitrary, and b) still down to personal taste. It's a different way of having the same debate. This generation of consoles saw games getting better at explaining their systems through tutorials and information, and helping guide the player through the experience so that they can see the content and advance the story. And yet it is precisely because of this trend that Dark Souls resonated so much with people.

As for your choice, the streamlining of systems and more action oriented combat in Mass Effect 2 is seen as either the smartest changes they possibly could have made, or the beginning of the end of BioWare as a developer of system-dense, non-generic, brains over brawn RPG-ass-RPGs. The obsession with cinematic presentation in AAA gaming is not an unambiguously good thing, and it led to many developers of games that didn't need to have single-player narratives being forced kicking and screaming into including one, to tick another box on the back cover. Dead Space is not at all like a film in terms of how it presents its action, characters, and story moments, and it stood out more and in many ways was more effective because of this.

Well, this generation was full of advances in video game narratives, in streamlining mechanics, in integrating RPG elements into practically everything, in creating player choice and giving that choice impact, and in bringing games to a more mainstream audience. I think that if games are to become a form of art that stays with us, then some of those things are very important, and Mass Effect 2 encapsulates them better than any other game this generation as far as I'm concerned. The Witcher 2 is a good contender but its difficulty wavers way too much between "insanely easy" and "nut-bustingly difficult". It also doesn't quite have the same mainstream appeal, though that series is quickly gaining in the latter department.

And yes, mainstream appeal is important to getting games acceptable as art. More and more people are getting into games; if they were still widely considered a pastime for kids and lonely geeks, it would be hard to get them accepted anywhere as any sort of art form. As it stands, they're making headway into that acceptance, but they're not there yet, and they won't be until they're even more widely accepted. Mass Effect 2 wasn't exactly the most mainstream of games but it did do very, very well.

For the record, the one game that I personally liked most this generation was Skyrim. I can point out some of the game's major flaws, but that game just grabbed me and held on. It's still holding in. I still enjoy that game so much whenever I fire it up.

How is Dead Space not at all a cinematic game? It's not the poster child for that complaint, but it feels like they were going for cinematic to me.

Finally, I realize that this post has a lot of loose ends. I thought about deleting it but I've spent too much time typing it and I'm already getting a bit tired of game of the generation debates. Or maybe I'm just too tired and don't care. Either way, feel free to pick it apart. I may or may not respond.

@believer258 said:

In some ways, Dead Space can be cinematic, but it's more like a horror film than a blockbuster action film, which is the cinematic level that most games aspire to - Dead Space is more Alien like than Aliens. But at the same time, Dead Space is not cinematic in that it very rarely takes control and agency away from the player. I don't think that cutscenes are ruinous for games, but the games that stand out to me are the ones that present their narrative in a more organic way, and only take control away when they absolutely need to. Isaac gets instruction and information from characters through video presented in a believable way, and you still control him while this is happening; same for the audio logs. It also fits into the narrative and atmosphere that almost all of the interaction with other characters is done via audio and video; the rest of the time you're alone, increasing the sense of isolation (which by the way is also the reason why I defend the use of audio logs in BioShock). Dead Space didn't have a hugely memorable or exciting storyline, and none of the characters were that memorable, but the way the story was told was fucking phenomenal.

Man, I'm going to end this generation without having fully played The Witcher 2 and that is a bummer. I fucking loved the first one, but never could get past the first few hours of the second one. I need to play it before Wild Hunt comes out.

No Catherine either, or Nier... :(

Man this tournament is already savage. I don't know if I could choose between some of these if it came to it. Bracket A-H is especially rough.

Witcher 2 vs. DXHR is gonna be a tough choice for me... Two very brilliant but also flawed Action RPGs. Both have tons of interesting choices, great combat, deep stories, beautiful graphics... Damn that's gonna be tough.

Halo 3 vs. Gears 3 too. Those are my two favorite multiplayer games of this past generation.

Well, Valkyria Chronicles going up against XCOM in the first round guarantees it won't get any further up, so i'm happy. Cos fuck you, Valkyria Chronicles.

For the most part these early match-ups seem like easy wins for the games I prefer, so that's nice. Only things that bum me out is it seems like this community will definitely pick Deadly Premonitions over Portal 2, so that game won't make it out of Round 1. Same for Dead Space, which likely won't beat out CoD 4 because it was less 'revolutionary'. Also maybe Fallout 3 won't beat Just Cause 2? That's a real tough fight methinks.

I wouldn't argue that FFXIII deserves to be named one of the best games of the generation; at least, not in any sort of forum based on popular consensus. That's an argument that I would never win. Though if I do get around to making a personal Games of the Generation list, I'd strongly consider including FFXIII and put every damn amount of effort I could into explaining precisely why I feel that way for it.

As for Sleeping Dogs, I am in total agreement with you. I think that game is better than GTAV in so many ways, and it's going to get destroyed.

I really can't understand why there are PC games in this bracket. I get that there are a lot of supporters of PC games on the site but c'mon. It's not like anybody's saying "I can't wait for the new PCs to come out." That's a generation of games that never really ends. The whole point of this thread is that the current gen of home consoles is about to end. I'll make more arguments against it when the voting starts for those games.

huh.... this is a weird bracket, Fable 2 and Rock Band.... that's unfair

Here's hoping that Mass Effect 2 wins! That said, there is some stiff competition.

I'm sure there's a really good reason why they weren't included.

My personal GOTG would be either: Rock Band, Uncharted 2, Mass Effect 1, Dota2, Super Meat Boy or Skyrim.

Objectively speaking, I think it'll come down to either Skyrim, Dark Souls, Mass Effect 2 or Super Mario Galaxy.

@mezmero: Is this a joke? Pc games don't live in some kind of insane vacuum, they are as influenced by the age they live in as console games are. There is really no reason at all to alienate so many good games just because they weren't released on a console.

@zero_ Let's not use objective in any of these conversations. That is a bad time for everyone involved.

The thumbnail for this in the community showcase has a Mass Effect picture. Bias, anyone?

I always disagree with a bracket. It gives an extremely high inaccuracy of the actual opinion of people.

For instance, hypothetically, let's assume the top four games of everyone are Far Cry 3, Uncharted 2, Mirror's Edge and BioShock. The bracket method is biased for pitching those against each other early. Now, Mirror's Edge and Far Cry 3 will not crack the top 10 at results, while in reality they are in the top 4.

I never liked the bracket system.

@cybertification: That argument would only work if calling dota from 2003 and dota from 2013 the same game wouldn't be blatantly false. You would be surprised how different the game has become over the years.

The great thing about brackets, like this, is almost every single person is sure to be disappointed with the ultimate winners.

@mezmero said:

At the same time, PC releases are always constrained by the existing console hardware. When you only need a PC powerful enough to play games that can also run on consoles, with each generation there is a leap in the widespread demand for and availability of higher end hardware, which in turn allows for development of games which take advantage of that hardware. PC games are very much a product of their generation.

Because everybody is terrible.

Follow the honey.

Pairing Mario Galaxy with Super Meat Boy? What a bad pairing that is. The one I'll vote for is the one that isn't going to win in the votes when come time.

You also finished it. I only got ten hours in and I could give a rough estimate of what was happening, but I couldn't give you any more details than "Some people are chasing Lightning and Co. because they've become some kind of pawns of some kind of god."

Gameplay wise, though, I had a lot of fun with what I've played.

I do plan on eventually playing more of it but right now I'm thoroughly enjoying its predecessor, Final Fantasy XII, which is pretty much the antithesis of FFXIII in terms of gameplay and its story is way more political.