@EXTomar said:
I think Bioware will be fine and gamers can discuss their products if Bioware steers away from the overpromising.
I disagree. I think DA3 is Bioware's last chance to reestablish itself as a high quality developer. If they blow it, they are done. They will be drawn and quartered and inserted into the corporate sausage machine (EA). But hey, capitalism right?
@boj4ngles said:
@EXTomar said:
I think Bioware will be fine and gamers can discuss their products if Bioware steers away from the overpromising.
I disagree. I think DA3 is Bioware's last chance to reestablish itself as a high quality developer. If they blow it, they are done. They will be drawn and quartered and inserted into the corporate sausage machine (EA). But hey, capitalism right?
I remember seeing videos of them talking about DA3. They brought up things like your armor showing on your character and acted like it was a brand new thing they just invented. I think the Bioware guys live in their own little bubble and have no idea what's going on around them.
@boj4ngles said:
@EXTomar said:
I think Bioware will be fine and gamers can discuss their products if Bioware steers away from the overpromising.
I disagree. I think DA3 is Bioware's last chance to reestablish itself as a high quality developer. If they blow it, they are done. They will be drawn and quartered and inserted into the corporate sausage machine (EA). But hey, capitalism right?
You act as if people who hate Bioware on forums are all gamers.
ME 3, for all the hate, was a success. It made money. And most people don't hate it.
@algertman said:
@boj4ngles said:
@EXTomar said:
I think Bioware will be fine and gamers can discuss their products if Bioware steers away from the overpromising.
I disagree. I think DA3 is Bioware's last chance to reestablish itself as a high quality developer. If they blow it, they are done. They will be drawn and quartered and inserted into the corporate sausage machine (EA). But hey, capitalism right?
I remember seeing videos of them talking about DA3. They brought up things like your armor showing on your character and acted like it was a brand new thing they just invented. I think the Bioware guys live in their own little bubble and have no idea what's going on around them.
They better show that because it was gone in 2. That's the point of them showing that. We will see how DA III turns out, but lets not criticize them for fixing things that they boned up in II.
Video game communities are comprised predominantly of children. Then those children grow up a little and want to write about video games.
Then you have young adults writing for children, who grow up a little and want to write about video games.
Add a pinch of entitlement, and one heaping tablespoon of the Internet. Bake for a console generation that went on for too long.
Serve and enjoy!
@TooWalrus said:
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@LevelUpAdrian said:
@ShaggE said:I must be reading a different thread.This thread makes me proud of GB. It's a rare forum that doesn't devolve into "EVERYONE'S ON THE TAKE BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF DANTE'S HAIR" at every opportunity.
Indeed. I'm reading the one where everybody's calling bullshit on the review conspiracy theories.
I'm reading the one where people are agreeing on the review conspiracy theories.@LevelUpAdrian said:
@ShaggE said:I must be reading a different thread.This thread makes me proud of GB. It's a rare forum that doesn't devolve into "EVERYONE'S ON THE TAKE BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF DANTE'S HAIR" at every opportunity.
Indeed. I'm reading the one where everybody's calling bullshit on the review conspiracy theories.
@Abendlaender said:
@MariachiMacabre said:
@ShaggE9/11, 9/11, Illuminati, Shriners, Freemasons, Triangles, Mole People, 9/11!This thread makes me proud of GB. It's a rare forum that doesn't devolve into "EVERYONE'S ON THE TAKE BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF DANTE'S HAIR" at every opportunity.
Don't forget 9/11
I never do.
@Droop: Jesus! Spoiler that shit!
@ArtisanBreads said:
@boj4ngles said:
@EXTomar said:
I think Bioware will be fine and gamers can discuss their products if Bioware steers away from the overpromising.
I disagree. I think DA3 is Bioware's last chance to reestablish itself as a high quality developer. If they blow it, they are done. They will be drawn and quartered and inserted into the corporate sausage machine (EA). But hey, capitalism right?
You act as if people who hate Bioware on forums are all gamers.
ME 3, for all the hate, was a success. It made money. And most people don't hate it.
I didn't hate it. But I didn't really like it that much either. On my second play through I realized it was kind of crap. How do you know most players don't hate it? Because everyone I've talked to thought it was lackluster, and the most detailed survey I read indicated a poor reception for the game overall. Polls on Giant Bomb also indicated negative reactions.
Is a game's profitability the first indicator of its success? I don't think so. I think most of ME3's profitability came off the reputation of ME2. And FYI, we really don't know exactly how much money ME3 made, EA and the other publishers keep that kind of stuff close to their chest.
@boj4ngles said:
@ArtisanBreads said:
@boj4ngles said:
@EXTomar said:
I think Bioware will be fine and gamers can discuss their products if Bioware steers away from the overpromising.
I disagree. I think DA3 is Bioware's last chance to reestablish itself as a high quality developer. If they blow it, they are done. They will be drawn and quartered and inserted into the corporate sausage machine (EA). But hey, capitalism right?
You act as if people who hate Bioware on forums are all gamers.
ME 3, for all the hate, was a success. It made money. And most people don't hate it.
I didn't hate it. But I didn't really like it that much either. On my second play through I realized it was kind of crap. How do you know most players don't hate it? Because everyone I've talked to thought it was lackluster, and the most detailed survey I read indicated a poor reception for the game overall. Polls on Giant Bomb also indicated negative reactions.
Is a game's profitability the first indicator of its success? I don't think so. I think most of ME3's profitability came off the reputation of ME2. And FYI, we really don't know exactly how much money ME3 made, EA and the other publishers keep that kind of stuff close to their chest.
http://www.destructoid.com/mass-effect-3-makes-over-200-million-in-sales-227119.phtml
They've openly said how much money it made. As of May, Mass Effect 3 has sold at least 4 million copies and has made at least 200 million dollars. I'm not even sure if this includes the multiplayer money. And who knows by this point months later?
The game even came in 6th GOTY on NeoGAF, where the game is openly shitted on by just about everyone. It has a high metacritic average and it won 10 GOTY awards from the media or so.
It was a success. I hated the ending and how they handled the DLC, but it was a success.
@boj4ngles said:
@ArtisanBreads: Alright Ice Cube, you win this one.
haha man I'm just saying they made a successful game as a business, and even if we don't like how the game went, I think it could keep going that way and be a big success. The ending was a travesty but I think on forums we lose track of the overall picture.
The series was never as good from the first game to me but it continued to get bigger and bigger. We'll see what that means for the rest of that series and Bioware.
As far as Dragon Age II, that game was just pretty bad and it didn't sell near DA:O, so there is incentive for them to roll that back to Origins big time. That's why I'm hopeful for that game. Bioware isn't dead to me yet.
@boj4ngles said:
@EXTomar said:
I think Bioware will be fine and gamers can discuss their products if Bioware steers away from the overpromising.
I disagree. I think DA3 is Bioware's last chance to reestablish itself as a high quality developer. If they blow it, they are done. They will be drawn and quartered and inserted into the corporate sausage machine (EA). But hey, capitalism right?
Well I'm just going to throw this out there since Bioware is a popular topic in here.
I can honestly say I have never enjoyed a Bioware game, Now on the same note I have never called them out as being a shit company or anything either I'm just not a fan of what they do. And I am well aware that I am in the minority with this belief which is why I don't normally even comment about their stuff. But yeah... Not a fan.
@ArtisanBreads: See the reason I don't think it was a success is the same reasons you are bringing up. Just like DA2, ME3 has turned first day buyers into cautious consumers. It hurts the brand.
As to whether they are going to fix things up in DA3, I don't know man. They made the game's subtitle . . . . . INQUISITION. At first I was like what the fuck. What kind of stupid generically dark and bleak third act crap is this? And then I was like, oh right. This is the new Bioware. Of course their new game is called Inquisition. Remember when the game's subtitle (Origins) alluded to the beginning of a series where the focus was on player agency in a role playing experience? Those days are looooonng gone.
@boj4ngles said:
@ArtisanBreads: See the reason I don't think it was a success is the same reasons you are bringing up. Just like DA2, ME3 has turned first day buyers into cautious consumers. It hurts the brand.
As to whether they are going to fix things up in DA3, I don't know man. They made the game's subtitle . . . . . INQUISITION. At first I was like what the fuck. What kind of stupid generically dark and bleak third act crap is this? And then I was like, oh right. This is the new Bioware. Of course their new game is called Inquisition. Remember when the game's subtitle (Origins) alluded to the beginning of a series where the focus was on player agency in a role playing experience? Those days are looooonng gone.
I think people still really want to like ME, I know I sure do. And as I said before, I think ME 3 is still quite popular with most people. If a new game was announced in the series with an interesting direction and new characters... I'd be very excited. Maybe I'm alone, but I don't think so, as much mess is talked about ME 3 by some. I believe even a lot of them would get excited. There was a lot of good done with the series and the universe is just fantastic.
And personally, I think the idea of being an Inquisitor sounds fucking awesome if done right, so I can't agree with that. It's a great set up for an RPG, especially one that could have lots of tough choices and moral grey areas. Could it be dumb? Sure. Dark =/= dumb though. Dragon Age Origins was quite dark and frankly generic and that game was great. The set up wasn't very interesting either, even if the Origins themselves were, though they weren't the focus.
If the game is shit when it comes out, then we can talk. I'm going to be optimistic. I can see I'm probably in the minority on the internet.
@LevelUpAdrian said:
@ShaggE said:I'm reading the one where people are agreeing on the review conspiracy theories.@LevelUpAdrian said:
@ShaggE said:I must be reading a different thread.This thread makes me proud of GB. It's a rare forum that doesn't devolve into "EVERYONE'S ON THE TAKE BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF DANTE'S HAIR" at every opportunity.
Indeed. I'm reading the one where everybody's calling bullshit on the review conspiracy theories.
Weird... obviously those posts are here as well, but I'm in a strange reality where the majority are calling the OP out. :S
@BrockNRolla said:
@RollingZeppelin said:
I feel like the OP is secretly jealous of the gaming press, that's why he hates them so much.
How could he not be upset? Clearly he could do a better job than all those other journalist schmucks out there. His opinions are far superior to theirs.
On a related topic which is closer to reality, there are plenty of problems with games journalism. Thankfully, its a topic based on entertainment, so the stakes aren't too high. And when we feel irritated, we can just look elsewhere. I don't read Kotaku anymore because they made me literally angry, which is incredibly silly in the pantheon of things worth getting angry about. Yet the problem was remedied by simply clicking elsewhere. Life was literally made better by that simple action. I'm glad to see most in this thread responding in this manner.
OP, if you really think things are so bad in this industry, if you really think there are conspiracies around every corner, if you really think your opinions are correct above everyone else's, by all means, and I mean this as serious advice, stop reading the offending material. Write your own. Maybe you'll revolutionize the way things are done. That, our you'll realize your vitriol is misdirected. But know this, your angry and hateful attitude is harmful to those around you.
Hey, I don't like what the OP wrote either, but did you really need to be so incredibly patronizing? You aren't going to convince anyone of anything if you act so above it all.
@ShaggE said:
@LevelUpAdrian said:
@ShaggE said:I'm reading the one where people are agreeing on the review conspiracy theories.@LevelUpAdrian said:
@ShaggE said:I must be reading a different thread.This thread makes me proud of GB. It's a rare forum that doesn't devolve into "EVERYONE'S ON THE TAKE BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF DANTE'S HAIR" at every opportunity.
Indeed. I'm reading the one where everybody's calling bullshit on the review conspiracy theories.
Weird... obviously those posts are here as well, but I'm in a strange reality where the majority are calling the OP out. :S
First, there's a difference between "everyone is bought off" and "everyone is influenced". One is (usually) an exaggeration. The other is generally correct. That isn't conspiracy. That is fact. It's also fact in most other forms of media and news if you've ever worked in or with news media, you're aware of this and you can feel the depressing state of things, even at a distance. To discount this fact would be silly when you have journalists who cite these events and incidents we have all watched. From Gerstmangate to Dan Hsu's tales of being stuck fighting against management that wants to collude with advertisers and publishers to Wainwright and so on. These are not isolated incidents. They are merely the incidents that have come to light.
Second, there's also a lot of sheer incompetence and lack of ethics and professionalism. Again, not restricted to game journalism, but it is particularly prevalent here.
However, it is complete bullshit to say that everyone is totally directly on the take just as much as it is to say nobody is on the take, nobody is influenced, nothing shady goes on, and everyone is ethical and professional. There is definitely this very simple group of people who are probably very young and don't have much "media/news literacy" nor much experience with consuming news nor many critical thinking skills who just counter anything they disagree with or are unsatisfied with by lobbing conspiracy theories without any real foundation for suspicion in individual incidents, other than "well, it differs from my view, therefore money totally changed hands or something!". Kind of the same way the simple minds posting comments on almost every news article on the internet (say, CBS articles or anything else linked to by Drudge) spew the same five mindless talking points.
@algertman said:
@kishinfoulux said:
Don't get me wrong the gaming press can be fucking awful...but you have to realize a lot of this stupid shit comes from the fans/gamers. THEY are the ones who make mountains out of mole holes.
That happens because the gaming press will not police their own little club. They all rub elbows, go to the same parties, screw the same drunk both babes, and they get insanely defensive when they are attacked or feel threatened. E3 at gametrailers is like some big circle jerk with everybody from the gaming press invited. Then when they get called out on it and caught with their hand in the cookie jar they lose their shit.
You see, when people claimed you seemed a bit jealous or paranoid I thought people were perhaps judging your OP a little harsh. But to say things like going to the same parties or "screw the same booth babes" is some kind of sign of the Game Journo's doing something especially sinister just comes off as crazy. On the topic of one of your points about the Booth Babes, unless it's some kind of weird event where Journo's are given a naked drunk woman from a publisher, I don't see what point you're trying to make.
I'm also looking for Gametrailers E3 CONTROVERSY and I can't find it, must be on the other internet.
@Branthog said:
@ShaggE said:
@LevelUpAdrian said:
@ShaggE said:I'm reading the one where people are agreeing on the review conspiracy theories.@LevelUpAdrian said:
@ShaggE said:I must be reading a different thread.This thread makes me proud of GB. It's a rare forum that doesn't devolve into "EVERYONE'S ON THE TAKE BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF DANTE'S HAIR" at every opportunity.
Indeed. I'm reading the one where everybody's calling bullshit on the review conspiracy theories.
Weird... obviously those posts are here as well, but I'm in a strange reality where the majority are calling the OP out. :S
First, there's a difference between "everyone is bought off" and "everyone is influenced". One is (usually) an exaggeration. The other is generally correct. That isn't conspiracy. That is fact. It's also fact in most other forms of media and news if you've ever worked in or with news media, you're aware of this and you can feel the depressing state of things, even at a distance. To discount this fact would be silly when you have journalists who cite these events and incidents we have all watched. From Gerstmangate to Dan Hsu's tales of being stuck fighting against management that wants to collude with advertisers and publishers to Wainwright and so on. These are not isolated incidents. They are merely the incidents that have come to light.
Second, there's also a lot of sheer incompetence and lack of ethics and professionalism. Again, not restricted to game journalism, but it is particularly prevalent here.
However, it is complete bullshit to say that everyone is totally directly on the take just as much as it is to say nobody is on the take, nobody is influenced, nothing shady goes on, and everyone is ethical and professional. There is definitely this very simple group of people who are probably very young and don't have much "media/news literacy" nor much experience with consuming news nor many critical thinking skills who just counter anything they disagree with or are unsatisfied with by lobbing conspiracy theories without any real foundation for suspicion in individual incidents, other than "well, it differs from my view, therefore money totally changed hands or something!". Kind of the same way the simple minds posting comments on almost every news article on the internet (say, CBS articles or anything else linked to by Drudge) spew the same five mindless talking points.
Oh I totally understand that, just like in any industry there's always going to be dickheads who do shady things.
It's just interesting given I'm actually in the games industry as a journalist over the pond in Australia and it's not something that's that big of an issue down under. There's only been one major issue a few years ago where Rockstar bribed a journo and the journo, ever being a professional, outed the emails instead of going along with it. Since then, it's hardly been a talking point over here and I've never seen anything of the nature having worked in the industry for over five years.
It's just funny to see the commotion that occurs in the industry over in the states and in Europe. I do hope we don't get this stuff over here, but I'm sure all good things must come to an end at some point, right?
@Branthog: Duder, you're preaching to the choir here. My point was that I'm happy that reason tends to prevail around these parts in matters of the media. Not always, of course, but a damn sight more often than usual.
As for my thoughts on the subject: I've been on the press side of things, and I know from experience that certain people like to slyly butter up critics. One experience in particular that I won't go in to any detail on for obvious reasons really left a bad taste in my mouth. But I also got to know a number of fellow critics, and I can honestly say that far more often than not, a review is an honest opinion. There are corrupt folks, of course, but I'm confident in saying that they're in the minority. (I'm speaking of reputable sites, of course, not every Blogspot site and Gamebomb.ru that wormed their way into getting press copies.)
I can't speak to other areas of reporting, but I just wanted to put that out there. I'm no grizzled veteran like Jeff & Co., but in my limited experience, the popular idea of game press munching on promo junk food and taking junkets to Cancun to see sizzle reels for the latest COD while being showered in free stuff is really funny to me.
@LevelUpAdrian said:
@Branthog said:
@ShaggE said:
@LevelUpAdrian said:
@ShaggE said:I'm reading the one where people are agreeing on the review conspiracy theories.@LevelUpAdrian said:
@ShaggE said:I must be reading a different thread.This thread makes me proud of GB. It's a rare forum that doesn't devolve into "EVERYONE'S ON THE TAKE BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF DANTE'S HAIR" at every opportunity.
Indeed. I'm reading the one where everybody's calling bullshit on the review conspiracy theories.
Weird... obviously those posts are here as well, but I'm in a strange reality where the majority are calling the OP out. :S
First, there's a difference between "everyone is bought off" and "everyone is influenced". One is (usually) an exaggeration. The other is generally correct. That isn't conspiracy. That is fact. It's also fact in most other forms of media and news if you've ever worked in or with news media, you're aware of this and you can feel the depressing state of things, even at a distance. To discount this fact would be silly when you have journalists who cite these events and incidents we have all watched. From Gerstmangate to Dan Hsu's tales of being stuck fighting against management that wants to collude with advertisers and publishers to Wainwright and so on. These are not isolated incidents. They are merely the incidents that have come to light.
Second, there's also a lot of sheer incompetence and lack of ethics and professionalism. Again, not restricted to game journalism, but it is particularly prevalent here.
However, it is complete bullshit to say that everyone is totally directly on the take just as much as it is to say nobody is on the take, nobody is influenced, nothing shady goes on, and everyone is ethical and professional. There is definitely this very simple group of people who are probably very young and don't have much "media/news literacy" nor much experience with consuming news nor many critical thinking skills who just counter anything they disagree with or are unsatisfied with by lobbing conspiracy theories without any real foundation for suspicion in individual incidents, other than "well, it differs from my view, therefore money totally changed hands or something!". Kind of the same way the simple minds posting comments on almost every news article on the internet (say, CBS articles or anything else linked to by Drudge) spew the same five mindless talking points.
Oh I totally understand that, just like in any industry there's always going to be dickheads who do shady things.
It's just interesting given I'm actually in the games industry as a journalist over the pond in Australia and it's not something that's that big of an issue down under. There's only been one major issue a few years ago where Rockstar bribed a journo and the journo, ever being a professional, outed the emails instead of going along with it. Since then, it's hardly been a talking point over here and I've never seen anything of the nature having worked in the industry for over five years.
It's just funny to see the commotion that occurs in the industry over in the states and in Europe. I do hope we don't get this stuff over here, but I'm sure all good things must come to an end at some point, right?
Sadly, there are a lot of places where not only would that pass, but probably has passed. It's probably safe to say that journo isn't the only person Rockstar reached out to and if that's the case, then where are all the other guys who spoke up? Rockstar does a lot of advertising. Don't want to lose their dollar from their magazine, because your writer exposed their practices, right?
I've heard people in the industry say that the UK (specifically, but perhaps Europe, in general) is far more dirty and maybe even more open about being dirty than the US -- but I would tend to say maybe we just cover it up or look past it more, here. And as bad as gaming journalism may be . . . man is the rest of journalism worse. At least, worse in context. I don't know what it's like in Aus, but in the states, we have local news stations that have for decades promoted network content as actual news-hour news. And you'll very often notice network and cable news (and print, for that matter) that is subtly promoting specific products, brands, or even pharmaceutical drugs. Then there are issues of being persuaded (sometimes more directly than others) not to cover certain topics, because it involves sponsors. Or even to just flat out invent news.
So, in context, it's probably less egregious as far as impact to have shady journalism and nefarious relations among everybody over video games than "real news", but that is also often seemingly used as a sort of justification. I'm sure you've seen people do that a lot. "Hey, I'm just reporting about games, it's not like I'm covering anything serious guys!".
The shittiest part of all (across all journalism) is probably that this isn't an issue of an individual typically being dirty. It's an issue of it being a part of the common DNA, now. Of it being a generally cultivated atmosphere from sales to editorial and up and down the food chains from there. Being a journalist with a spine is pretty risky when you probably won't have the support of your boss, peers (we've seen how they turn on each other when one speaks up), or upper management. So unless you want to change careers, you end up stuck in the same filthy machine, trying to plant as much fruit in a barren field of crap as you can. Which goes to my point that it's not like everything is always bullshit and always being produced under nefarious influence. Just that it often is. Individuals still obviously usually want to create meaningful and honest content to the extent that they can.
When I was much younger, I considered a career in journalism and broadcasting. It was a serious option, for some time. In retrospect, I've heard enough depressing stories from friends in journalism and broadcasting (some at a certain three letter network that sometimes adds a lower-case trendy letter at the end, even) that I am grateful I took a different path.
@Branthog said:
@LevelUpAdrian said:
@Branthog said:
@ShaggE said:
@LevelUpAdrian said:
@ShaggE said:I'm reading the one where people are agreeing on the review conspiracy theories.@LevelUpAdrian said:
@ShaggE said:I must be reading a different thread.This thread makes me proud of GB. It's a rare forum that doesn't devolve into "EVERYONE'S ON THE TAKE BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF BOUGHT OFF DANTE'S HAIR" at every opportunity.
Indeed. I'm reading the one where everybody's calling bullshit on the review conspiracy theories.
Weird... obviously those posts are here as well, but I'm in a strange reality where the majority are calling the OP out. :S
First, there's a difference between "everyone is bought off" and "everyone is influenced". One is (usually) an exaggeration. The other is generally correct. That isn't conspiracy. That is fact. It's also fact in most other forms of media and news if you've ever worked in or with news media, you're aware of this and you can feel the depressing state of things, even at a distance. To discount this fact would be silly when you have journalists who cite these events and incidents we have all watched. From Gerstmangate to Dan Hsu's tales of being stuck fighting against management that wants to collude with advertisers and publishers to Wainwright and so on. These are not isolated incidents. They are merely the incidents that have come to light.
Second, there's also a lot of sheer incompetence and lack of ethics and professionalism. Again, not restricted to game journalism, but it is particularly prevalent here.
However, it is complete bullshit to say that everyone is totally directly on the take just as much as it is to say nobody is on the take, nobody is influenced, nothing shady goes on, and everyone is ethical and professional. There is definitely this very simple group of people who are probably very young and don't have much "media/news literacy" nor much experience with consuming news nor many critical thinking skills who just counter anything they disagree with or are unsatisfied with by lobbing conspiracy theories without any real foundation for suspicion in individual incidents, other than "well, it differs from my view, therefore money totally changed hands or something!". Kind of the same way the simple minds posting comments on almost every news article on the internet (say, CBS articles or anything else linked to by Drudge) spew the same five mindless talking points.
Oh I totally understand that, just like in any industry there's always going to be dickheads who do shady things.
It's just interesting given I'm actually in the games industry as a journalist over the pond in Australia and it's not something that's that big of an issue down under. There's only been one major issue a few years ago where Rockstar bribed a journo and the journo, ever being a professional, outed the emails instead of going along with it. Since then, it's hardly been a talking point over here and I've never seen anything of the nature having worked in the industry for over five years.
It's just funny to see the commotion that occurs in the industry over in the states and in Europe. I do hope we don't get this stuff over here, but I'm sure all good things must come to an end at some point, right?
Sadly, there are a lot of places where not only would that pass, but probably has passed. It's probably safe to say that journo isn't the only person Rockstar reached out to and if that's the case, then where are all the other guys who spoke up? Rockstar does a lot of advertising. Don't want to lose their dollar from their magazine, because your writer exposed their practices, right?
I've heard people in the industry say that the UK (specifically, but perhaps Europe, in general) is far more dirty and maybe even more open about being dirty than the US -- but I would tend to say maybe we just cover it up or look past it more, here. And as bad as gaming journalism may be . . . man is the rest of journalism worse. At least, worse in context. I don't know what it's like in Aus, but in the states, we have local news stations that have for decades promoted network content as actual news-hour news. And you'll very often notice network and cable news (and print, for that matter) that is subtly promoting specific products, brands, or even pharmaceutical drugs. Then there are issues of being persuaded (sometimes more directly than others) not to cover certain topics, because it involves sponsors. Or even to just flat out invent news.
So, in context, it's probably less egregious as far as impact to have shady journalism and nefarious relations among everybody over video games than "real news", but that is also often seemingly used as a sort of justification. I'm sure you've seen people do that a lot. "Hey, I'm just reporting about games, it's not like I'm covering anything serious guys!".
The shittiest part of all (across all journalism) is probably that this isn't an issue of an individual typically being dirty. It's an issue of it being a part of the common DNA, now. Of it being a generally cultivated atmosphere from sales to editorial and up and down the food chains from there. Being a journalist with a spine is pretty risky when you probably won't have the support of your boss, peers (we've seen how they turn on each other when one speaks up), or upper management. So unless you want to change careers, you end up stuck in the same filthy machine, trying to plant as much fruit in a barren field of crap as you can. Which goes to my point that it's not like everything is always bullshit and always being produced under nefarious influence. Just that it often is. Individuals still obviously usually want to create meaningful and honest content to the extent that they can.
When I was much younger, I considered a career in journalism and broadcasting. It was a serious option, for some time. In retrospect, I've heard enough depressing stories from friends in journalism and broadcasting (some at a certain three letter network that sometimes adds a lower-case trendy letter at the end, even) that I am grateful I took a different path.
There's definitely a stigma attached to the profession, both for what has been called "juvenile journalism" (and "following such a kiddy thing as games seems stupid") and the corruption and such that has been outed.
As for that specific example I gave, I believe it was a confidential deal with one particular magazine (i.e. Rockstar had a deal going with one magazine in particular, and when that went sour and the emails got leaked, I don't think they would've been smart enough to try that same trick with another media outlet - that said, Rockstar has predominately been recognised as one of the more shadier in regards to practices with the gaming media), but yes a lot of people did wake up and say "Hang on, that's not right". What I was trying to get to was that that particular situation seemed to had a shake-up impact on the industry locally in our region. It does seem that the UK is specifically a bit more "dirtier" than the US, but given the population of readers is far greater in the US for the most part, it seems that that is where the most vocal comments seem to come from.
In retrospect it definitely does look like it's getting a bit more dirtier in the gaming industry down under and I suspect a lot of that has to do with people leaving jobs and new people taking over with little understanding of how our "business" tends to work. They may have worked in other forms of PR, where the practices that are general no-no's for gamers and the games media are just everyday business for other forms of media (which is telling).
It's already started out pretty stupid. So, I'm guessing this year will only get worse...or better...I guess it depends how you look at it.
This is what happens when consumer press and those attempting academia styled criticism (very poorly, too) grow more and more jaded with the industry they cover and the customers they depend on for clicks. They exist in a world where print mediums have all but dried up outside of Game Informer, where they live in an internet vacuum where entertainment and controversy are the methods behind keeping a job in the industry. The other thing is, as this site proves on a daily basis, there are a bunch of guys who want to live vicariously through the exploits of others. These guys are cool because...they get paid to play video games, and then they get drunk on the weekends, and they seem like they have fun in an office like it's an internet start up in the 90s so...cool!
There will always be a place for the press and for the reviews, but to be frank, places like this are growing ever more irrelevant the more publishers can directly market to and deal with their potential buyers.
@algertman said:
@Humanity said:
I'm more curious how players will embarrass gaming as a whole due to excessive reactions to the gaming press.
Sorry not possible. The Kuchera mess is proof of that.
I think a petition to the president to take down a game from store shelves because some people "don't like it and didn't ask for it" is more embarrassing than some game journalist beefing with another. But thats just my take on it.
It depends if you're the kind of person to villify a huge industry based on the poorly-thought-out ramblings of some dudes on twitter.
i really hope that the ME3 stuff does not happen agian. i felt kinda bad that a game i liked was bashed to the point that it felt at one moment like Bioware was done. Still i understood the hate but wow i had never seen that in videogames. it was funny n sad at the same time.
@PSNgamesun said:
i really hope that the ME3 stuff does not happen agian. i felt kinda bad that a game i liked was bashed to the point that it felt at one moment like Bioware was done. Still i understood the hate but wow i had never seen that in videogames. it was funny n sad at the same time.
You say Bioware I say EA. It's the same thing.
@JoeyRavn said:
@Apathylad said:
It's gonna be hard to top the Lauren Wainright incident.
I need a recap. I know this had something to do with Tomb Raider and Geoff Keighly's Mountain Dewritos, but I'm missing the rest of the context for this? What happened and why was it so bad?
She got called out on, with evidence, being a paid shill and you know who got the worst of it? The guy who called her out on it.
@JoeyRavn said:
@Apathylad said:
It's gonna be hard to top the Lauren Wainright incident.
I need a recap. I know this had something to do with Tomb Raider and Geoff Keighly's Mountain Dewritos, but I'm missing the rest of the context for this? What happened and why was it so bad?
Previously on Alarmist Video Game Journalism Topics:
Keighley does Halo 4 promotion with Doritos / Mountain Dew, writer at Eurogamer does OP/ED piece about awkward relationship between games journalists and PR, "questions" Lauren Wainwright's relationship with SquEnEidos, Wainwright denies previous employment, internet detectives find LinkedIn / CV with SquEnEidos employment, Wainwright admits but denies writing any articles about Squeenix' titles, internet finds scans of said non-existent articles, Wainwright deletes any mention of Squeenix and goes dark, MCV's legal department "kindly" asks Eurogamer to retract article, Eurogamer complies, writer quits.
It used to be if you were bad at your job, you got fired. Now you just have to say, "Oh, well my job's not serious!!! It's just video games!!!" and you keep working.
@Little_Socrates said:
The fanbase was generally REALLY GROSS about Mass Effect 3. Not so much the "change the ending" people, as they were frustrating from an artistic integrity sensibility, but those who spat bilious venom towards the staff of BioWare. I'll remind you that a ridiculous number of people were screaming hate speech at the game's primary writer about a month before the game released. Enough felt like it was enough.
You generally lose the ability to claim artistic integrity, when you show you have none.
@Mike76x said:
@Little_Socrates said:
The fanbase was generally REALLY GROSS about Mass Effect 3. Not so much the "change the ending" people, as they were frustrating from an artistic integrity sensibility, but those who spat bilious venom towards the staff of BioWare. I'll remind you that a ridiculous number of people were screaming hate speech at the game's primary writer about a month before the game released. Enough felt like it was enough.
You generally lose the ability to claim artistic integrity, when you show you have none.
When your game has as much DLC as ME3 art should never even be mentioned.
@algertman said:
@Mike76x said:
@Little_Socrates said:
The fanbase was generally REALLY GROSS about Mass Effect 3. Not so much the "change the ending" people, as they were frustrating from an artistic integrity sensibility, but those who spat bilious venom towards the staff of BioWare. I'll remind you that a ridiculous number of people were screaming hate speech at the game's primary writer about a month before the game released. Enough felt like it was enough.
You generally lose the ability to claim artistic integrity, when you show you have none.
When your game has as much DLC as ME3 art should never even be mentioned.
I have no idea what point you're trying to make with that statement?
Its hilarious how many people are burying themselves with this thread
@Baillie said:
@algertman said:
@Mike76x said:
@Little_Socrates said:
The fanbase was generally REALLY GROSS about Mass Effect 3. Not so much the "change the ending" people, as they were frustrating from an artistic integrity sensibility, but those who spat bilious venom towards the staff of BioWare. I'll remind you that a ridiculous number of people were screaming hate speech at the game's primary writer about a month before the game released. Enough felt like it was enough.
You generally lose the ability to claim artistic integrity, when you show you have none.
When your game has as much DLC as ME3 art should never even be mentioned.
I have no idea what point you're trying to make with that statement?
He claimed ME3 ending hate was frustrating from a artistic point of view. I say artictistic integrity was was never part of that game.
@Carousel said:
It's hilarious that people still blame the "internet mob"
Newsflash! It's not the internet's job to carry themselves will civility and professionalism.
And if you honestly don't see what's wrong with the whole "Dewritosgate" thing, you're absolutely hopeless.
ha people should want to carry themselves with civility. If they don't, I'm not going to say "Oh well it's the internet" even if that's what it's sadly usually like.
Who gives a fuck about Geoff Keighly being in front of some Doritios? Dudes basically Ryan Seacrest of videogames... was your world really shattered when you saw that? Can you not trust his reviews he doesn't write now? It's all so overboard. In real journalism there isn't even this insane "integrity" obsession.
If shit like this is bothering you this much then you're in too deep dude. Take a step back and stop worrying about who is takling shit about who, and who has integrity, and go play a game you like.
@algertman said:
@Baillie said:
@algertman said:
@Mike76x said:
@Little_Socrates said:
The fanbase was generally REALLY GROSS about Mass Effect 3. Not so much the "change the ending" people, as they were frustrating from an artistic integrity sensibility, but those who spat bilious venom towards the staff of BioWare. I'll remind you that a ridiculous number of people were screaming hate speech at the game's primary writer about a month before the game released. Enough felt like it was enough.
You generally lose the ability to claim artistic integrity, when you show you have none.
When your game has as much DLC as ME3 art should never even be mentioned.
I have no idea what point you're trying to make with that statement?
He claimed ME3 ending hate was frustrating from a artistic point of view. I say artictistic integrity was was never part of that game.
My point was mostly to say that the ME3 issues were more with the people screaming hate speech towards BioWare and rating EA worse than Monsanto Bean Corporation (who infamously make an effort to monopolize bean distrubution in the States by any means necessary) and Bank of America's illegal foreclosure of homes. My point is that issuing death threats and hurling misogyny at the game's lead writer a month before the game's release was disgusting, and that set up a bad relationship between Mass Effect's more belligerent fanbase and the press.
But I'll take the bait. Let's talk art.
I don't think any of the DLC is absolutely core to the ME3 experience, though I think it enhances it more drastically than any DLC beforehand. I know that if I hadn't had Shadow Broker, I wouldn't love ME2 nearly as much as I do. I would never have gotten to spend time with Liara and keep that relationship meaningful throughout the franchise.
Things cost money. Unless you're arguing that all art should cost the same amount always, the "cost" of the item doesn't detract from the extreme amount of work the writers, artists, graphic designers, sound engineers, voice actors, gameplay designers, and further staff of BioWare put into making content worth playing.
You can dislike ME3, fine. But the DLC doesn't make the original game any less relevant, and they have by far created one of the most analyzed artworks in videogames. And not just for its business model, or outrage over DLC, but for the literally hundreds of well-written essays, blog posts, and podcasts discussing the game's narrative, ending, and themes, whether from the perspective of fury over disappointment or satisfaction.
But EVEN IF ME3's not up to your artistic standard (which seems to be set by quality rather than medium, but that's another tack to pull) it's artistically problematic because it sets a precedent where the video game fanbase can get outraged and demand the change of an ending, and then it succeeds. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing (it took them ten years to release a version of Blade Runner anybody cared about, and the LOTR extended editions are obviously well-loved) but it disturbed some of the press and the industry. It's worth noting that the obsessive use of phrases like "hold the line" made the entire movement seem more Asperger's-y and neurotic, perhaps revealing a bit too much about the video game fanbase for people to ever be comfortable.
It's worth noting that I adored ME3 by the end of the year, despite its flaws (which are significant and several.) But I can totally understand why people dislike the game and its business model. It's still art either way, though.
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