What's with the "Citizen Kane of videogames" thing?

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GunslingerPanda

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#1  Edited By GunslingerPanda

I just watched Citizen Kane after hearing this phrase from Ryan and the other Bombers, but I still don't understand where this phrase comes from. Could someone explain?
 
Great movie, though.

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MooseyMcMan

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#2  Edited By MooseyMcMan

Citizen Kane is often regarded as the greatest movie ever made, and comparing something to it is seen as a great complement.  

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KarlPilkington

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#3  Edited By KarlPilkington

But I thought Twilight was the best film ever made.

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Yummylee

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#4  Edited By Yummylee

Which game did they refer to as ''The Citizen Kane of videogames'' anywhoo?

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neozeke

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#5  Edited By neozeke
@GunslingerPanda: Citizen Kane is what canged the game. Camera angles were blowing minds then son, so wen someone calls a video game te citizen kane of games it basically means, yo dawg this shit's going to change everything. 
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HaltIamReptar

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#6  Edited By HaltIamReptar

I have always said that we need a videogame adaptation of Citizen Kane.  That way we could have something with the honorific of, "The Citizen Kane of Movies of Games of Movies"

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Hailinel

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#7  Edited By Hailinel

There was a rather bizarre segment on ABC News (I believe) a while back where a game critic unilaterally declared Metroid Prime as the Citizen Kane of video games, to which the rest of the world watching responded with, "wat."
 
It's been a running joke ever since.  Metroid Prime is a classic, no doubt, but it's not that easy to pinpoint any specific game as having advanced the medium in the ways that Citizen Kane is credited for advancements made in film.

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BeachThunder

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#8  Edited By BeachThunder

Braid?
 
*Hides from flaming* ;_;

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BBQBram

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#9  Edited By BBQBram

Citizen Kane video game sounds awesome. Hammer X to trash ex-wife's room. Enter Rosebud for an extra life.

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SomeGuy890

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#10  Edited By SomeGuy890

  
  I think its a reference to this news story a couple years ago, and how ridiculous it is.
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Video_Game_King

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#11  Edited By Video_Game_King
@Chabbs0 said:
" But I thought Twilight was the best film ever made. "
I'm surprised that you even think :P.
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citizenkane

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#12  Edited By citizenkane
Citizen Kane is widely regarded as the greatest film ever made.  It also revolutionized how movies were filmed with it's camera angles, lighting and lens focus.
 
So when someone refers to "the Citizen Kane of video games", they mean a revolutionary video game that will be regarded as one of, if not the greatest video game of all time and how it pushes video games further as an art form.
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Rockanomics

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#13  Edited By Rockanomics

So now that we've answered his question, let's get down to the important one, what's the real CK of vidja games!? 
 
To me it's clearly Duke Nukem 3D, or maybe Limbo... either one.

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byrjun

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#14  Edited By byrjun

It's part of a discussion about the validity of games as an expressive (dare I say artful?) medium, and not just "some toy that stupid insecure nerds use". 
You see, the thing Citizen Kane did for film was something a bit similar. Because of it's use of cinematography, script, story, characters, etc, the way it pulled all these strings together, and let them be expressive by themselves, but also come together as a whole, the images "telling stories", the use of different angles to reflect status, the red herring of Rosebud. It basically cemented the film medium to the general (mainstream) public, and, some would contend, changed the 'official' perception of film.
So, as the affectionate nerds we are, sometimes we want to make that happen for games as well. And that's when corny, hyperbolic terms gets thrown into the discussion. I believe that it is very possible that games will get that sort of gratification one day, but at that point, no one is doubting wheter or not "THIS IS IT", it just is.
 
Also, IGN kinda set this flamewar ablaze: 
http://wii.ign.com/articles/103/1033302p1.html
 
Destructoid responded: 
 http://www.destructoid.com/why-comparing-metroid-prime-to-citizen-kane-is-ludicrous-151465.phtml  

Also also, in the same way of thought, the guys at Giant Bomb are sometimes referenced as the Pauline Kael or Hunter S. Thompsons of games. You are free to google these names if you like :)

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Napalm

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#15  Edited By Napalm

The correct answer is Duke Nukem Forever. Just you fucking wait and see.

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neozeke

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#16  Edited By neozeke
@Rockanomics: I would say Silent Hill 2 or Super Mario Brothers. 
 
inb4 Deadly Premonition, that's more liek the Troll 2 of video games. 
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Kieran_ES

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#17  Edited By Kieran_ES

Usually means a game that comes out and progresses the genre in a huge way, making a stake as a definitive answer to the 'are games art' shit. Mike Thomsen used it to mean a game that used mechanics and aesthetic to reflect the emotional state and history of Samus and the environment, rather than a more basic definition that I described. 

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Gonmog

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#18  Edited By Gonmog

I'd call Zelda ocarina of time this.

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BaneFireLord

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#19  Edited By BaneFireLord

I personally thought the way Red Dead handled its plot made it the Citizen Kane of gaming stories. Those three endings and that final title card were effing brilliant.

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ryanwho

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#20  Edited By ryanwho

Buncha people never seen Citizen Kane.

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GunslingerPanda

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#21  Edited By GunslingerPanda

Ah right, I get it now. So it's just like "hey this game is expressive and cements videogames as a storytelling medium"? I guess having seen a bunch of movies made after CK meant I didn't realise what CK had done for movies. 
 
Aren't we well beyond that point though?

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TheSeductiveMoose

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Kyreo

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#23  Edited By Kyreo
@Abyssfull said:
" Which game did they refer to as ''The Citizen Kane of videogames'' anywhoo? "
I think they said Super Mario 64.  I think.
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neozeke

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#24  Edited By neozeke
@GunslingerPanda: Not when it's influence is still felt throughout the industry. When movies stop doing L-edits, lows angles, and different styles of camera focus, we can stop referring to citizen kane as one of the most important movies ever.  
 
EDIT: And ceiling shots. 
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ryanwho

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#25  Edited By ryanwho
@GunslingerPanda said:
" Ah right, I get it now. So it's just like "hey this game is expressive and cements videogames as a storytelling medium"? I guess having seen a bunch of movies made after CK meant I didn't realise what CK had done for movies.  Aren't we well beyond that point though? "
Its not even that. Citizen Kane didn't invent storytelling. It basically was the first english speaking movie to hit a movie milestone so that's why we remember it instead of M, or Metropolis, or Nosferatu as THE milsetone even though those other films were arguably larger milestones. By that same token, we'd have to wait for an American or UK developer to hit a milestone to call it the next Citizen Kane. So Mario 64 doesn't apply, nor does Super Mario Bros. How about Wolfenstine, there's your english language gamechanger.
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TheDudeOfGaming

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#26  Edited By TheDudeOfGaming

I would say that games can be a true work of art,first thing comes to mind,at least for me is Grim Fandango, now that game,was a fucking masterpiece.

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JCTango

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#27  Edited By JCTango
@TheSeductiveMoose said:
"
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@TheDudeOfGaming said:
" I would say that games can be a true work of art,first thing comes to mind,at least for me is Grim Fandango, now that game,was a fucking masterpiece. "
^--- wholeheartedly agree =)
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mordukai

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#28  Edited By mordukai
@Abyssfull said:

" Which game did they refer to as ''The Citizen Kane of videogames'' anywhoo? "

KNowing them it's probably something really lame. For game reviewers their video game tastes are very limited. If there's someone who's the most qualified to make a sound judgment on that subject there it will be Dave. 
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Voxatron

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#29  Edited By Voxatron
@Rockanomics said:

" So now that we've answered his question, let's get down to the important one, what's the real CK of vidja games!?  To me it's clearly Duke Nukem 3D, or maybe Limbo... either one. "

Limbo is definitely one of the most avant garde, well aside from Grim at least.
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cornbredx

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#30  Edited By cornbredx

I don't believe there has been a "citizen kane" of video games yet. You'll know it happens when across the world as a whole video games are looked at and it is said "The reflection and story brought to us by this production truly quatifies it's art form and changes how we see video games forever." It won't literally be said, but it will be understood.
 
As much as we can look back fondly on our games of choice, none of them have done this yet. Sometimes I wonder if they can- they do come very close sometimes, though.
 
I say this having read and seen OP has gotten an answer already and I find this discussion intriguing. Just my thoughts on it.

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Azteck

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#31  Edited By Azteck
@CitizenKane said:
" Citizen Kane is widely regarded as the greatest film ever made.  It also revolutionized how movies were filmed with it's camera angles, lighting and lens focus.  So when someone refers to "the Citizen Kane of video games", they mean a revolutionary video game that will be regarded as one of, if not the greatest video game of all time and how it pushes video games further as an art form. "
Oh man!
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Oldirtybearon

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#32  Edited By Oldirtybearon
@ryanwho said:
" @GunslingerPanda said:
" Ah right, I get it now. So it's just like "hey this game is expressive and cements videogames as a storytelling medium"? I guess having seen a bunch of movies made after CK meant I didn't realise what CK had done for movies.  Aren't we well beyond that point though? "
Its not even that. Citizen Kane didn't invent storytelling. It basically was the first english speaking movie to hit a movie milestone so that's why we remember it instead of M, or Metropolis, or Nosferatu as THE milsetone even though those other films were arguably larger milestones. By that same token, we'd have to wait for an American or UK developer to hit a milestone to call it the next Citizen Kane. So Mario 64 doesn't apply, nor does Super Mario Bros. How about Wolfenstine, there's your english language gamechanger. "
I think the major reason that Citizen Kane gets the most credit as opposed to Metropolis or Nosferatu (never saw M) is because from minute to minute I don't think I've ever seen something that packed such a visceral punch. It was a simple if sad story, but the way imagery was tied together to present a story that was expressed far better than with just words really hit people in a way films hadn't done before. Metropolis and Nosferatu are truly amazing films of course, but something about Citizen Kane' story, characters, performances, and imagery really hit something vital in a lot of people.  
 
At the time everyone hated Citizen Kane, though. It bombed and was only really "discovered" much later. 
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#33  Edited By Siphillis
@GunslingerPanda: Citizen Kane introduced a complex, intelligent use for cinematography.  In other words, after Kane, how a movie was shot was significantly more important to production.  Likewise, I believe that the "Citizen Kane" of video games has already been found, and that game is Super Mario 64
 
I'm much more interested in what our Schindler's List or Lawrence of Arabia looks like.
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#34  Edited By Mr_Skeleton

Citizen Kane is considered to be one of the best films ever made despite and because the fact that it was made at 1941, what they ment at the podcast is that despite the fact that Bomberman is an old game it still works great by todays standards and it's still fun to play.

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#35  Edited By jakob187
@Hailinel said:
" There was a rather bizarre segment on ABC News (I believe) a while back where a game critic unilaterally declared Metroid Prime as the Citizen Kane of video games, to which the rest of the world watching responded with, "wat."  It's been a running joke ever since.  Metroid Prime is a classic, no doubt, but it's not that easy to pinpoint any specific game as having advanced the medium in the ways that Citizen Kane is credited for advancements made in film. "
Yes there is.  It's called Super Mario Bros. 3.
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#36  Edited By PenguinDust

It's a really good movie, too.  The people on this site should see it if they haven't.  At the very least, you'll understand more of the references in the Simpsons. 

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flaminghobo

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#37  Edited By flaminghobo

I'd say my answer to the question of 'What is the Citizen Kane of video games? (At this point in time)' I'd say it would have to be BioShock.
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Aurelito

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#38  Edited By Aurelito

Citizen Kane of the Games = The most overrated, overhyped game ever.
 
GeoW, maybe?

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jorbear

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#39  Edited By jorbear

The Citizen Kane of video games is obviously 50' Cent: Blood On The Sand.  
Fifty. 

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#40  Edited By Skald
@ryanwho said:
" Buncha people never seen Citizen Kane. "
Judging by some of the answers people are giving, I agree with this. 
 
Video games don't have a Citizen Kane.
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Romination

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#41  Edited By Romination

It's because people feel like they need to equate mediums and also feel like it'll legitimize video games as an art form.

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iWonder

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#42  Edited By iWonder

I dont think there's ever been a video game quite THAT influential... but if I were to pick something close, I would say Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. 

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Wrighteous86

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#43  Edited By Wrighteous86

In terms of storytelling important and specific to the medium of games, I'd say Bioshock got closest, but the ending might have ruined that.  As a whole package, probably Ocarina of Time.

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#44  Edited By dungbootle

I've heard Ocarina of Time being called the Citizen Kane of video games before and I wouldn't disagree.

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Gonmog

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#45  Edited By Gonmog

No other game I can think ofof still has some many gaming systems still being used by newer games.

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#46  Edited By Carbon
@Romination said:

" It's because people feel like they need to equate mediums and also feel like it'll legitimize video games as an art form. "

This is a good point. A lot of "[Video Game] is the Citizen Cane of video games!" statements are not looking at the game objectively. Most of the time, it's some game that they personally feel is artful and revolutionary, and then try and parallel it with renowned works from other mediums that have already been accepted as an art form. That is to say, "movies have Citizen Cane and movies are accepted as art. We have [Video Game] which is totally artful and revolutionary in the same ways as Citizen Cane so we're art too!". There is rarely a sound justification.
 
 @iWonder said:
" I dont think there's ever been a video game quite THAT influential... but if I were to pick something close, I would say Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.  "
I think you nailed it in saying that even a game like Ocarina of Time can only be "close" to the Citizen Cane of video games. As was already mentioned in previous posts, one of the main justifications for calling Citizen Cane a great movie (or greatest ever, depending on who you're speaking to) is the fact that it did so many things first, all at once, and an incredible amount of those things are still used extensively today. Games like GoldenEye 007 were great for their time, but most of the things that it added to the genre became outdated quickly and nearly all of the good things about that game back then have been replaced and upgraded by the successors of it's genre. Ocarina of Time revolutionized many things about 3D action adventure games, and really showed developers of those types of games how it should be done. Nearly all of the things that it added to it's genre are still in extensive use today, with little change. In fact, many developers and designers could learn a lot by going back and studying games like of Ocarina of Time.
 
The problem is that so many games did this for their respective genres. If I were to try and be objective and not involve nostalgia or emotion in choosing a Citizen Cane of video games, I don't think I could settle on any single one because of the incredible variety that the medium offers, and all of the ground breaking games that managed to evolve the medium in a giant leap just as they were released. If one were to pick the Citizen Cane of 3D console action adventure games set in a fantasy world, then Ocarina of Time would be a fine choice, among others. However, it just wouldn't make sense to pick Ocarina of Time for Citizen Cane of racing sims or shmups, since it has little to no relation to those genres. In this way, I just don't see it being possible to pick a Citizen Cane of video games . To address the video, Metroid Prime is it's one damn genre. I would only accept Metroid Prime as the Citizen Cane of Metroid Prime. That's not to say that it's bad, but it didn't evolve or revolutionize anything, it more accurately started something new.
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#47  Edited By Grumbel

Citizen  Kane of video games? Another World, that game introduced a whole bunch of story telling techniques that where revolutionary for its time and still find its use today, which given that it is nearing its 20th Anniversary is quite remarkable. Other then that, Super Mario 64 certainly comes close, as it completely revolutionized 3D gaming as a whole (look at early Saturn titles to see the contrast). I wouldn't put Zelda:OoT into that category, while its lock-on certainly was revolutionary, it didn't really do much else that hasn't already been done in 2D before. But as Carbon  already said, there are to many genres of games around and games are still evolving pretty rapidly. At this point it also seems we are down to a whole lot of incremental improvements instead of getting a single game breaking new ground across the board.

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Gabriel

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#48  Edited By Gabriel

They should just make Citizen Kane the videogame based on the movie and be done with it. Then we can all say Citizen Kane the Game is the Citizen Kane of gaming.

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Dany

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#49  Edited By Dany

I thought it was because IGN was dumb enough to compare Citizen Kane to metroid.

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#50  Edited By august

I am the Citizen Kane of Video Games.