Deep Space 9 or Babylon 5, which is better.
While I really grew to dislike DS9 because of the latter seasons, I still really enjoyed the first half of that series. As for the other one, I only watched the first 5-10 min of the first episode and was turned off of what I saw so I stopped watching there. So I guess DS9 wins by default.
And I love DS9. So I picked that in the poll.
@Hero_Swe said:
@Mordukai said:
@Hero_Swe said:
DS9. Babylon 5 does not have Avery Brooks. and one of the best sci-fi episodes in the history of sci-fi.
Which episode is that?
I really like DS9 but I voted B5 because imo that show evolved their characters a bit better.
Far Beyond the Stars
Ohh yeah. Good episode.
I liked Babylon 5, was never a fan of DS9. Babylon 5 went completely nuts though, it just got worse and worse after they wrapped up the shadows stuff. The spinoff was fucking awful crusader? crusade? fuck knows. I used to like the dude in the suit who lived in the fog.
Visually, I think Deep Space 9 holds up better than Babylon 5. B5's story is better for seasons 2 to 4, though. It's tighter and more episodic. After the war is over though, much of the show becomes bloated with political stuff and a lot of the new conflicts aren't as entertaining as the earlier ones. DS9 starts off really slow and the first 3 seasons can be dumped except for a few key episodes. Like B5, it also suffers after the war is over, but to a lesser extent since the characters themselves are more likeable. The baseball episode ("Take Me Out to the Holosuit") in season 7 is among my favorites. It's just funny.
@Hero_Swe said:
DS9. Babylon 5 does not have Avery Brooks...
This is true, too. Bruce Boxleitner doesn't have the same screen presence as Avery Brooks.
Because of the nature of Star Trek, DS9 was able to occasionally venture off its main storyline and experiment. One of my favorites is "Far Beyond the Stars" in which Sisko has a vision and becomes a 1950's sci-fi writer confronting racism and the frustrations of wanting to express his artistic side in a very pulpy business. (episode clip)
@PenguinDust said:
@Hero_Swe said:
DS9. Babylon 5 does not have Avery Brooks...
This is true, too. Bruce Boxleitner doesn't have the same screen presence as Avery Brooks.
Because of the nature of Star Trek, DS9 was able to occasionally venture off its main storyline and experiment. One of my favorites is "Far Beyond the Stars" in which Sisko has a vision and becomes a 1950's sci-fi writer confronting racism and the frustrations of wanting to express his artistic side in a very pulpy business. (episode clip)
Heh yeah. I pointed out that episode to Mordukai up there :P
I can't believe DS9 is winning - easily. I don't think many people actually watched Babylon 5. If they did, they would have seen just how superior B5 is. Perhaps it is just the enduring legacy of Star Trek? Let me make my case for Babylon 5:
Deep Space 9, like all Star Trek and pretty much all sci-fi, suffered from the problem of making it up as it goes. They do a year, and if they get it renewed, they write another year and so it goes. It has no real end and quite often they write themselves into a corner. Most characters suffer poor development and many seem to do stupid things you don't feel the character would do - different writers. On the other side, Babylon 5 was written and filmed as a complete 5 season programme - it had a beginning, a middle and an end. It is that very fact that makes B5 the most complete and truly serious sci-fi of all time. Essentially it was a book, made into a 5 season series.
When you compare the conflicts between DS9 and B5 you see that B5 has a complex structure with significant overlapping and integrated storylines that it makes DS9 look somewhat simple. Don't get me wrong, I like DS9, but I can say the only time I really enjoyed the show was when war broke out with the Dominion, but that ended so quickly, I was left unsatisfied. On B5, the conflict between the Narn and the Centauri alone was so believable, it would have made a good show on its own, but you add in the evil of The Shadow and Z'ha'dum, the politics of the humans, the power and benevolence of the Minbari and the religious significance of the Vorlen, you have a show that treats you with complete intelligence. Even the Psi-Corp used that kind of character in a way that is so readily treated in a pithy way in other show,
No amount of me explaining will get across the point of how well this show was written, It treated homosexuality as if it were completely normal (which of course it is) and a non-issue, which for its time was significant. If you have watched it and seen the explanation of God in its many ways via The Vorlen and the race that can't see the God, you cannot be left unimpressed. It also, for its time, had some of the best CGI you have seen in a television show. They still look good.
On the trivial side, Babylon 5 had Billy Mumy, Will Robinson from Lost in Space and Walter Koenig, Chekov from Star Trek and that alone makes it brilliant. On the not trivial side, the complexity of the characters and the ever evolving nature of good and evil, strength and weakness in their characters across the 5 years is a milestone in sci-fi. If you love sci-fi, Babylon 5 is the most significant series to ever be made and a must watch. It is brilliant.
@Contrarian: I agree, but I think you left out the knockout punch: Babylon 5 had Londo and G'Kar. Those two characters and their evolution throughout the five seasons were some of the best I've ever seen. The elevator episode where they really dig into the problems between the Narn and Centauri is quite possibly my favourite of the entire series.
@Oldirtybearon said:
@Contrarian: I agree, but I think you left out the knockout punch: Babylon 5 had Londo and G'Kar. Those two characters and their evolution throughout the five seasons were some of the best I've ever seen. The elevator episode where they really dig into the problems between the Narn and Centauri is quite possibly my favourite of the entire series.
I didn't elaborate, but that is what I meant on the conflict between the Centauri (Londo) and Narn (G'Kar - I named my black British Short Haired cat after him). It was so complex. Londo was the villian, and you hated him at times, but he sought redemption as it went on (you really felt for him when he couldn't see the Angel). The warmth of these characters was fantastic. The war scenes between was so well done, especially the attack on Babylon 5. I cannot overstate how much I love this show.
Babylon 5 is incomparably better, even with it's terrible season 1
@Oldirtybearon said:
@Contrarian: I agree, but I think you left out the knockout punch: Babylon 5 had Londo and G'Kar. Those two characters and their evolution throughout the five seasons were some of the best I've ever seen. The elevator episode where they really dig into the problems between the Narn and Centauri is quite possibly my favourite of the entire series.
I can hear you!
B5 has not aged well, but when it was on, I enjoyed it more than DS9. The story felt tighter and they did the space station stuff better I felt. Plus, the Starfury was a pretty awesome space fighter design.
I think this is a comparison between two series that both had a great galactic/political setting, but which sort of fell apart when they deviated from the main storyline, either (in the case of DS9) before it got started, and (in the case of B5) after. They also had some pointless melodrama that they slipped in between the important story episodes, like the relationship between Sheridan & De'len (sp?); DS9 was just assorted Star Trek soap opera bullshit - but Star Trek had more of it. Neither of their storylines were perfect; in both cases the heroes always took the high road and somehow always came out okay because of it, but in B5, I'd say they paid a higher price. So based on these criteria, I'd say B5 was better, but I would not watch either series again.
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