New Terminator trailer is baffling and confusing.

don't think about time travel in terminator too much. they haven't even addressed why the human rebels don't try to stop the invention of killer robots instead of trying to save one kid/mom.

Suspension of disbelief is easy with movies as good as Terminator and T2. As the quality goes down and you become less immersed, you question everything more.

Word! It hurts so much only because I love Die Hard and Die Hard: With a Vengeance so much.

@grixxel: Die Hard 5 was so bad in every possible way that it's hard to pin the blame on just that guy. That movie was seriously such a bummer.

The entirety of Terminator 2 is about the thing you say they've never addressed.

The thing is John Connor was never as interesting or engaging a hero as Sarah Connor. The last two movies proved that. This is an attempt to restart the franchise with Sarah taking center stage again. I would not be surprised if by film end, John has been removed entirely from the scenario and Sarah is now leader of the human resistance. Rather than a clean re-boot, it looks like they are trying to retcon the mythology we knew. All that stuff you through you liked never happened, including Dan's favorite movie of all time.

I don't expect much from this entry in the franchise, but it could still be okay if they just embrace how off-the-wall this has become and they have multiple versions of every character running around at the same time.

Totally, but not entirely unrelated... I saw Arnie in an advert with some CGI meerkats the other night. I hope this has something to do with this terrible looking movie.

It's funny, the last movie to give away something that most definitely shouldn't have been in the trailer was Terminator Salvation and the whole Sam Worthington is a Terminator thing. the trailer for this movie is indeed baffling.

I have absolutely no love for anything Jai Courtney has done, but the vast majority of the blame for that movie should be piled on Bruce Willis. There isn't a single scene in that movie where he isn't lazily reading a line or looking like he just doesn't want to be there. I remember him being a total dick to so many people around the promotion of that movie. He really didn't seem to give a shit about the movie at all.

I bet Jai Courtney, as terrible as he is was pumped to be a part of that series.

I wish they would knock off the "I'll be back" shit already, it's been done a million times. Also I have no idea what hell is going on story wise here.

so im gonna disregard that trailer and ask a simple question about terminator from the timeline of 1-3. ok SO, originally Sarah Connor give birth to John, the world ends, machines rage war on humans, and John becomes the leader and badass. But since the machines send back arnold in 1, and the human send back arnold in 2, that would change how future John acts in the wasteland. Because according to T3 the skynet war is inevitable, you can only postpone it not stop it. What I mean is John Connor circa 2044 or whatever is it, would tell his comrads, "hey they are going to send a robot back to kill my mom in 1980, lets stop it now!"

Wouldnt this just create an infinite loop of countering each others war efforts??

One more thing, anyone remember the ps2/3 game where it actually shows the Arnold terminator in the future track down John connor and rip him through a wall and kills him before the rest of the resistance subdues him? That Game was mediocre but that is stuck in my brain forever, it is cannon after Arnold said he did kill him in T3.

@ezekiel: @onekillwonder_: @gunstarred: @grixxel: I'm glad I wasn't the only one super disappointed with where the Die Hard franchise went. If the Terminator movie bombs at the box office that'll be two failed major motion franchise movies Jai Courtney has starred in. I mean even Sam Wellington never saw another major motion box office film since Terminator: Salvation.

Even if it seems kinda dumb I'm just glad there's more to it than that initial teaser thing. Dumb is always better than boring.

I'm not sure why you included me. I haven't seen the new Die Hard. I only know Jai Courtney from Spartacus. Didn't like him much, though.

A clusterfuck rewritting Terminator 2's events.

It's almost as trippy as

@i_stay_puft: I'm pretty sure everyone hated DH5. Nobody I've talked to who has seen that piece of shit ever had anything nice to say about it.

I also didn't really hate Salvation. It's a fairly entertaining movie, it just feels nothing like a Terminator movie. It's still better than T3. It also has one of the absolute best trailers of all time. Too bad it never stood a chance of living up to it.

As for Sam Worthington, he was in Avatar, the highest grossing movie of all time, which came out after Salvation. You may have forgotten about that part, haha. He's also going to be in however many more of those there end up being, and they're all guaranteed to make obscene amounts of money. So he at least has that going for him.

I don't know, I'm kinda into the idea of old arnold fighting young bodybuilding arnold... and also interested how they handle the john connor thing for better or for worse.. It's... I might be part of the problem but... I have to know!

The last movie had a massive spoiler in the first trailer. A twist that takes half the movie to reveal. It seriously undermines the impact when everyone knows what's gonna happen beforehand.

welp, i feel like a turd. i gotta rewatch t2. i only saw it when i was like 13. only ones ive watched as an adult are the first terminator and salvation. i should research these things before i go off such old memories. sorry, world.

old movies continue to be smarter than new ones.

@claybrez:

I wouldn't say that not all new movies are bad, it's just that a lot of action film have been on a hell of a slippery slope. Over-reliance on CGI, shaky-cam to hide boring/bad choreography and incredibly short cuts, again, to hide the use of stunt-doubles or boring/bad choreography have made a lot of recent action movies kind of garbage. Not that movie-making techniques like this are necessarily bad (Pacific Rim was almost a completely CGI driven movie, and the shaky-cam/quick cuts in the Bourne series accurately bring across the ferocity of the fights), it's just that they are being used as more and more of a crutch or as an easy way out, trying to recreate the effectiveness of the movies that used them well without really understanding what made them work. Along with this is the growing idea that action-movie goers don't care about characters or good writing or any sense of vulnerability with the main protagonist. Transformers was able to swap out the main cast without skipping a beat and it still raked in the big bucks.

Just watching the Die Hards all the way through or The Terminators should serve as a good example of what the popularisation of such techniques have done to action films.

There are still good action movies coming out every year though, from film makers that still give a shit. Recent examples would include Edge of Tomorrow, John Wick, and the excellent Raid 2.

I watch action movies for the spectacle, not for the story.

Well, it depends on what model of time travel you subscribe to. There's the idea that there's only one timeline or universe and the instant you travel back in time, all that time in between the future point where you went back and your arrival point is no more and the timeline/universe is reset. In this case, the machines were morons to mess with time at all since they're essentially erasing all of their success up to that future point where they sent Arnie 1 back. They're taking a ridiculously huge chance that they'll achieve the success they did the first time Skynet went live. It's like that horror scenario where someone goes back to prehistoric times and swats a mosquito that previously would have been responsible for mankind's evolution or something, then returns to the future and finds that humanity is no more. The machines were betting their entirety on the reliability of one terminator against all of humanity before Skynet took over.

Then there's the multiple timeline/universe theory where every time someone travels back in time, their point of arrival splits the universe or timeline into two. The old one without the time traveler and the new one with. In the event time travel were possible, this is at least slightly more likely since it alleviates some of the paradoxes. In this case, time travel attempting to change your past is futile because you can't send someone back to your past since the moment they arrive, it's no longer your past, but rather the past of some other parallel version of yourself that you will never know and your present will remain unchanged. Unless they also invent some way to travel across the timelines/universes. Then, well, logic just falls apart entirely.

In the end, either way the machines were morons to try to solve their problems with time travel since odds are it would either be obscenely risky, or completely futile. They were pretty clearly winning in the future anyway.

Yeah, I think that totally looks fine.

Looks like a shit sandwich! Ugh!! I hate that they are beating to death the same catch phrases like "Come with me if you want to live!" The movie looks "ok". I guess, but it has a pretty low bar to hurdle all in all. The franchise has been garbage since the first one. The first one was pretty great! After that...I know people love T2, but I hate that movie! Edward Furlong is just awful imo. Hes a whiny little shit. I hate watching him push his childish morality on to the Terminator, and giving him amazingly bad catch phrases. Seriously fuck that movie!

The movies always revolved around a paradox that could never happen, so best not to think to hard on it.. John was born from a father from the future that he knew he had to send back so he would be born.. I guess up until this film you could argue that the time line was exactly how it should have been. That the chars acted on events they knew where going to happen in the future, and these things had to happen in order to keep the time line intact? But this one throws that out of the water since they are preceding the first film? But basically yes, all things things in the films are a paradox, could never happen, and would seem to cause infinite time loops variations.

I liked the first trailer from a few months ago, it had some interesting teases (old Arnold vs T1 Arnold, T-1000 being in the mix with Reese, etc).

This trailer, though...an acid trip fever dream happened and then everyone had fan fiction diarrhea all over the place. I'm still definitely interested, but now it's more of a morbid curiosity than genuine interest.

This is all super true. I really agree with what you've said about film trends changing these movies. It's a little depressing though, how these movies went from defining eras of film (that might be hyperbolic, they were still INFLUENCED by their time like you said) to being shot more like a commercial.

Good movies can still exist. I just think these franchises are kinda screwed forever. They are never going to be the labors of love they were when their ideas were new and exciting. It's just gonna be a bunch of directors and screenwriters treading the same territory again and again to rake in an audience of millions based on a name alone.

I want to see a year where the summer action blockbusters are actually dominated by new movies for a change.

This will be the worst best movie ever released, and as long as we all turn off minds from logical thought it will be worth a watch.

TIME PARADOX!

Seriously, this looks really dumb. Possibly so dumb that it will be fantastic. I mean, shit, old Arnie vs. young Arnie essentially playing rock 'em sock 'em robots has the potential to be the greatest thing ever filmed. Wondering how in the hell robots "age"? Who cares, fuck it! I'm weirdly into the way this film clearly does not give a flying fuck.

I agree that there didn't really need to be any more Terminator after T2, and there's an argument that everything after it has been a disservice (though I actually enjoyed T3 and thought the Fox TV show was underrated), but this film is actively shitting on the entire Terminator lore in a way that should piss off the Dan Ryckerts of the world. I know, alternate timelines and all, but this is still basically asking the audience to ignore the entirety of what they like about the franchise in the first place. I think they ought to wholly embrace it and make the next trailer be some overwrought "Forget everything you thought you knew about Terminator" nonsense.

At this point, I hope this movie goes the Starship Troopers route to basically be a parody of itself. There's virtually no way this movie can be "good" in the traditional sense, so they might as well make it incredibly stupid and entertaining. Here's hoping.

Your are right. That shouldn't be in a trailer.

@humanity: Die Hard 5 was bad because everyone in that series gave up caring about it a long time ago, including and probably mostly Bruce Willis himself. People blaming Jai Courtney are just looking for a scapegoat. Die Hard 4 had about two really good sequences in it, it was nothing to write home about. Willis barely puts any effort in these days.

This movie looks like a mess. That they felt they needed to put that big reveal into the trailer tells me that the last trailer was so badly received and that they have nothing else to give in that movie. I won't go to see it, because I'm confident I've already seen the best part of it.

I think this looks like pure garbage. Everything since T2 has just been a mess. They're really stretching anymore to come up with different ways to try to make the timeline and lore of the franchise feel fresh, and none of it's worked. It's all felt very tacked on. And with this one, it looks like they just whacked a pinata full of crazy ideas and picked them all up. The whole thing felt like it was over at the end of the second one.

It may not be Alien Resurrection bad, but I'm still going with bad.

I'm kind of excited to see it, I don't think it makes sense to write it off based on some flashy trailers. Ideally you shouldn't even watch them if you want the right experience when you do eventually see it. I like to like things.

Didn't T4 end with John Connor being killed and the good terminator being made to look like John Connor?

It's because the Terminators are living tissue over metal endoskeleton. The skin on the surface still ages, just way slower than that of a human. They may not give a fuck about anything else, but that is something that definitely makes sense in the context of the Terminator universe.

These guys think people liked Terminator because of it's super complex time traveling storylines.

Like some others said above, the more they mess with this time stuff the less sense it all makes and more convoluted it is. When it was simple it was easy to overlook and not to question everything.

For what the terminator franchise at this point (every movie has been progressively worse since the first) this seems to be just fine but also I feel like I watched the entire movie after seeing that trailer. It appears to even show the death scene of the primary antagonist. Weird

My biggest complaint is how they have to shoe-horn every catch-phrase from the first movie into this one.

COME WITH ME IF YOU WANT TO LIVE!

GET OUT!

I'LL BE BACK!

It's so damn old at this point, and it really makes it come across like it's trying to piggy back off the success of the first two movies, like it can't be its own thing.

Good lord, that trailer makes this look like the most desperate movie of all time. Put in all the catchphrases people know! Bring back the T-1000! Revisit the locations from the old movies! Put in some nanomachines, those are hot right now! And bring back Arnold Schwarzenegger! No, scratch that, two Arnold Schwarzeneggerses! Pump that Q rating through the motherfucking roof! And put the big twist right there in the trailer, why not!

It has to work, it just has to!

@bigboss1911 @john1912 @random45 I hope you guys are looking forward to Star Wars in December and hearing "I've got a bad feeling about this!" for the, literally, 10th time in a motion picture.

Not even going to get into how much it's been used in other Star Wars media because I don't think a number goes that high.

I'm going to end up seeing this anyway, I just know it, but I'm still annoyed. The T2-timeline novels might never have been canonical, but at least they remained consistent.

And not that I consider myself a connoisseur or snooty, but even the worst I can recall had better plot and action than the later movies.

Salvation had one of the worst sappy endings I have seen in a long time, I will wait for the masses to descend on this movie and judge it before I come anywhere near it.

Another thing about this movie...I can't be the only person who thinks that the Terminator damage on the faces looks far far worse than it did in previous Terminator movies (T1's mirror scene not counting) there is another shot of what looks like Arnie on the floor and the metallic sheen on it looks horrendous.

Yeah that was terrible, they also just weren't delivered that well I thought, Game of Thrones lady saying "Come with me if you want to live" felt particularly, hard to blame her though, it's so silly.
I think you are dead on about it not being it's own thing.
Between those lines and the fact that it is a gibberish remake of 1 and 2 it seems pretty clear someone didn't come up with a script they thought was good, but rather were told "hey, we need a new Terminator, go make a fucking script for it."

However, that being said, I think I'm going to have a lot of fun watching this.
The action scenes don't seem terribly done, the bus flip looked cool enough anyways, and if it turns out to be complete gibberish garbage then it should be fun seeing how stupid it is.
And if it turns out to be good, then that would be a nice surprise.
Think what I'm getting at is at least it doesn't look dull.
So that's good.