Question of the Day: Why Is Education So "Broked" In The States?

...so I watch my news stations, NPR, and whatnot...and everyone's talking about education. 
 
Then it hit me, a significant population of our students are borderline retarded. 
 
Sure we got people like Jessi Slaughter, Boxxy, and other crap to take our mind off it...but hot damn, as a guy who got his higher level education outside the States and coming back to the States for law school, dude...our generation is kinda stupid.   
 
What do you lot outside the States feel, and how do you fellow Americans feel we can fix it?

" ...so I watch my news stations, NPR, and whatnot...and everyone's talking about education.  Then it hit me, a significant population of our students are borderline retarded.  Sure we got people like Jessi Slaughter, Boxxy, and other crap to take our mind off it...but hot damn, as a guy who got his higher level education outside the States and coming back to the States for law school, dude...our generation is kinda stupid.    What do you lot outside the States feel, and how do you fellow Americans feel we can fix it? "

" Get rid of the internet. No seriously. "

Maybe because they focus less on learning things and more on passing tests.

" Maybe because they focus less on learning things and more on passing tests. "

I think that most americans are indeed retarded.
Their focus (and their parents/media) is on the wrong things.
 
I mean, a sweet sixteen party that costs more then I spend in a year? Get the fuck out.

Parents are too afraid to discipline kids. Teachers are too afraid to teach.
 
All they get is the bare minimum.

" Maybe because they focus less on learning things and more on passing tests. "

There is no single answer, but I think a big part is teaching for the test, not for the knowledge.  If I understand correctly, the funding for a school/district in the US is at least partially dependent on the average grades on a standardized test.  So to maximize funding, they teach the students to pass the test, which is more memorization and less critical thinking.  Students memorize the what and never learn the why.  A secondary effect is that everyone must learn everything - some people are more suited to different subjects.  Some are more math/physics/technology oriented, some are more art/music/etc. oriented, and so on, and there is no catering to that.  I know that they should be exposed to everything, but they can't possibly be expected to be good at everything.  That leads to frustration which leads to apathy.

" Maybe because they focus less on learning things and more on passing tests. "

Our public school system and Universities have been failing us for the past 20 years. It concentrates on creating useless 9-5 drones instead of nurturing the creativity and individuality of each student. As a result most Americans don't realize how soul crushing and ridiculous it is to spend their lives on "hard work" until their mid 30's. Media/Parenting is another large part of the problem. Parents fail to control the media intake that their children have, and even worse, fail to teach them the proper consumption of media which leads to the creation of media whores that do nothing but endlessly linger on facebook instead of working on the report thats due the next day. Wonderful. The birth of stupidity does not happen from one day to another, it is a process that takes time and indifference on the part of a nation as a whole. Its sad to say but at this rate we are headed towards a future that's not much different from the prophetic plot of Idiocracy.

That's another thing. 
 
Schools get money based on how well they score on these tests.

"Video Games turned the new generation retarded. I mean just look at the Halo kiddies and the CoD addicts that cringe at anything menatlly more taxing then pointing in a direction and squeezing the trigger.   /opens up his flame resistant umbrella and whistles innocently "

" There is no single answer, but I think a big part is teaching for the test, not for the knowledge.  If I understand correctly, the funding for a school/district in the US is at least partially dependent on the average grades on a standardized test.  So to maximize funding, they teach the students to pass the test, which is more memorization and less critical thinking.  Students memorize the what and never learn the why.  A secondary effect is that everyone must learn everything - some people are more suited to different subjects.  Some are more math/physics/technology oriented, some are more art/music/etc. oriented, and so on, and there is no catering to that.  I know that they should be exposed to everything, but they can't possibly be expected to be good at everything.  That leads to frustration which leads to apathy. "

" Us glorious master PC race know a thing or two about restraint."

" @Tennmuerti said:

"Video Games turned the new generation retarded. I mean just look at the Halo kiddies and the CoD addicts that cringe at anything menatlly more taxing then pointing in a direction and squeezing the trigger.   /opens up his flame resistant umbrella and whistles innocently "

Correction. Console games. Us glorious master PC race know a thing or two about restraint. *Also dons his flame coat* "

well i know im pretty damn stupid so uh...yeah

If you want to know what is wrong with the US education system just watch season 4 of The Wire. Watching The Wire is good advice in general.

" @Hero_Swe said:

" @Tennmuerti said:

"Video Games turned the new generation retarded. I mean just look at the Halo kiddies and the CoD addicts that cringe at anything menatlly more taxing then pointing in a direction and squeezing the trigger.   /opens up his flame resistant umbrella and whistles innocently "

Correction. Console games. Us glorious master PC race know a thing or two about restraint. *Also dons his flame coat* "

No no, this is not just the consoles, PC games like WoW are just as much to blame :P "

" @Hero_Swe said:

" Us glorious master PC race know a thing or two about restraint."

WoW, CS 1.6, SC2, and Civ 5. "

" There is no single answer, but I think a big part is teaching for the test, not for the knowledge.  If I understand correctly, the funding for a school/district in the US is at least partially dependent on the average grades on a standardized test.  So to maximize funding, they teach the students to pass the test, which is more memorization and less critical thinking.  Students memorize the what and never learn the why.  A secondary effect is that everyone must learn everything - some people are more suited to different subjects.  Some are more math/physics/technology oriented, some are more art/music/etc. oriented, and so on, and there is no catering to that.  I know that they should be exposed to everything, but they can't possibly be expected to be good at everything.  That leads to frustration which leads to apathy. "

There are so many factors that make school a poor experience. For starters the tests. I was actually a part of the group of kids who they started all the standardized testing for. I remember we would actually have practice tests of some kind on those old imacs. That was 8th grade. Then in highschool, they started making it the norm and I remember teachers getting pissed off because they had to teach the test instead of their curriculum. Now teachers are all being let go in this district and funding is being cut to the breaking point. My sister was a teacher and kept getting let go so they didn't have to give her a tenure agreement. So after about 6 years and about 4 schools later, she gave up teaching because it wasn't worth it anymore.
 
If you ask me, I think we need to get some teachers together (and smart minds and scientist and no politicians allowed) and start thinking of ways to restructure how school actually works and re-evaluate the best ways to teach children. We need to stop raising the salaries of all these ass hole politicians and start making teaching one of the highest paying jobs there is next to being a doctor.

My High School was doing very poorly on test scores, so it was up to my graduating class (Sophomore at the time I think) to raise the scores otherwise the government was going to step in and take control of the school. No one wanted that, so we pushed our collective asses to get good test scores and low and behold we had accomplished it and the school improved from then on. 

As someone who is not from the US, and knows very little about the US eductation system (and thus I could be completely wrong about this), it always seems that there is far too much emphasis on academic education, and not enough on more vocational studies. It always seems that there is this "if you don't go to college, you're going to fail at life" mentality and very limited potential for a more vocational route after school. In the UK it common for people to leave full time education at the age of 16 and go on to do more vocational studies while working in their chosen field, and that alternative doesn't seem to be as prevalent in the US. And it's an important route into work, academic studies aren't appropriate for everyone. 
 
At least, that's how it seems to me from the outside. I could be completely wrong.

Without better funding for public schools and a less ridiculousy expensive tertiary education system, I don't see how America is going to become a better-educated nation. Especially given the endemic libertarian suspicion of "big government": without government spending, it's leaving it up to chance whether one's family is of the right class to be able to have access to worthwhile institutions, and the people that do are probably so used to not having to work for it that they don't have to give a fuck anyway. I've never studied beyond high school in the States so I can't comment on colleges, but public schools are not very good to say the least (and this is from living in Mass., not one of the worse states by any means).
In short, bigger government is the obvious answer. The ridiculous thing is I've actually gained money from studying due to scholarships, because if I don't work in Australia then I never have to pay my deferred debts, which are only a couple of grand per year anyway.

I think the problem isn't neccessarily in the "education system" but in our culture.  Kids don't understand the value of being educated outside of getting a good job.  I remember in my algrebra 2 class everyone complaining that they would never use any of what they were learning in the real world.  At the time no one understood that it didn't matter whether or not you used the knowledge.  This is the fault of kids, parents and teachers.  We need a radical change in our culture that really places value on educating yourself before any of this will change.  Why did it become cool to be dumb?  I never understood that.    

The sad thing is, they are probably right with that algebra 2 stuff.

"Teach the controversy" - that's the problem. 

I went to Catholic school my whole life until college, I go to a state school now. I agree with the whole "Teaching for a test VS teaching to learn" argument, but I think it's fucked up to blame the kids. Let's face it: kids in high school didn't give two shits about their education fifty years ago, and they sure as Hell don't now. it's natural. The system is broken.

" @KaosAngel:  Because we say "broked" instead of "broken."
 
Seriously though, it's a very complicated issue and there's no single answer. As an education major, I could provide you with a number of shortcomings our public school systems possess, but for now, 
 
@jschmoe said:

" There is no single answer, but I think a big part is teaching for the test, not for the knowledge.  If I understand correctly, the funding for a school/district in the US is at least partially dependent on the average grades on a standardized test.  So to maximize funding, they teach the students to pass the test, which is more memorization and less critical thinking.  Students memorize the what and never learn the why.  A secondary effect is that everyone must learn everything - some people are more suited to different subjects.  Some are more math/physics/technology oriented, some are more art/music/etc. oriented, and so on, and there is no catering to that.  I know that they should be exposed to everything, but they can't possibly be expected to be good at everything.  That leads to frustration which leads to apathy. "

That's pretty good. "

" Government Schools don't want you to be very smart.  "

Part of the problem is the kids. Nowadays it's less about passing school and more about having sex with "girlfriends/boyfriends" and just being complete idiots in general. 
 
@MattyFTM said:

" As someone who is not from the US, and knows very little about the US eductation system (and thus I could be completely wrong about this), it always seems that there is far too much emphasis on academic education, and not enough on more vocational studies. It always seems that there is this "if you don't go to college, you're going to fail at life" mentality and very limited potential for a more vocational route after school. In the UK it common for people to leave full time education at the age of 16 and go on to do more vocational studies while working in their chosen field, and that alternative doesn't seem to be as prevalent in the US. And it's an important route into work, academic studies aren't appropriate for everyone.   At least, that's how it seems to me from the outside. I could be completely wrong. "

" "Teach the controversy" - that's the problem.  "

Living in a city where 30% of the teachers don't even have the credentials to teach, I believe that's where are problem starts. Other problems is of course the internet and the shows we see on TV now. I'm talking about Jersey Show, Kardashians, etc. For me, I didn't have the internet till I finished high school and while I was in school we never had TV shows like that. Another problem, and I'm sure you here this a lot, is the parents. It's the parents that had kids when they were 16 back in the 90's. Most of the teens back then that had unplanned pregnancies end up not giving a crap about their kids. 
 
I know for a fact that's the truth out here. My girlfriends sister is talking to this one guy and she says the guy is a complete idiot. He gets all D's in his class and he claims his Mom still lets him go out every night. She also says that his Mom collects child support and doesn't work. So yep, there you go. That's where it's all coming from.

" The sad thing is, they are probably right with that algebra 2 stuff. "

So I don't necessarily think there's all that much wrong with our school system.  I'm one of those public school children.  Went to a city school in the 2nd or 3rd most populous city in our state.  I went to our school's public university and graduated with a C level GPA.  I think there's a few issues with the way we look at schooling and one main issue with schooling as well.  We look at schooling as a system where you are supposed to get A's to get A's in college and then get a good job.  Problem is we tell our kids this is what is important so our kids only ever learn how to do what was expected of them.  That's a parenting issue.  At the schools this is compounded by teaching to the test, and even more-so by limiting curriculum outside of that.  
 
When I went to college and started failing my initial major (Mathematics), I learned 2 things.  First was that I was at college not to specialize my intelligence but to get better at learning new things.  Second, that I was at college to learn how to accomplish goals and set them (passing classes was mine).  That made me more resourceful, and without fail every person who I've met as an adult that had excelled in the school system (HS and College) has had more trouble adjusting to the working world than me.
 
So I think parents need to take more responsibility on themselves and put less on schools.  Part of what got me through was my parents stressing the importance of my development as a person and educationally, so I felt personally motivated to go above and beyond.

"
 

  Here's one of the stupid ones. "

" @Sanj said:

"
 

  Here's one of the stupid ones. "

Except that he's not from the states. He's Canadian.  Which pains me to say as I am as well. "

 but I think it's fucked up to blame the kids. Let's face it: kids in high school didn't give two shits about their education fifty years ago, and they sure as Hell don't now. it's natural. The system is broken. "

 I am  more inclined to believe that secondary education systems are flawed. A lot of what is taught is a complete waste of time to most people and does not interest them so they go off the rails. Kids should be taught all the basics and then go into more specialised education instead of wasting years learning stuff that they will never use.

     The education system needs a major overhaul, but it will never happen in our lifetimes most likely.  The only solution you EVER hear is "more money".  Noone looks at the core of the issue, we're educating to the lowest common denominator.  The whole class can only learn as fast as the worst student.  I remember it very well from my highschool days.  I had 2 "gifted" classes, an elective which I had some interest in, and the rest of the classes were mind numbingly slow, to the point of turning my completely apathetic about what I learned.  
 
     Everyone learns differently.  A primary problem I had was the ability to grasp simple mathematical concepts very quickly.  Instead of turning this into very good grades, I refused to slog through 50+ homework assigned questions of something I already grasped.  Its a well assumed fact of American highschool doctrine is a child cannot learn without forced repetition.  Instead, I'd turn in half a dozen finished from the homework, fail all those assignments, and get As on the tests.  Highschool didn't teach me how to study, or how to learn harder subjects I'd struggle with in higher education.   It made things much worse for me when I went into college, as I had no study skills and my work ethic was terrible in regards to completing assignments, which is much more necessary when you don't fully understand the concepts presented.
 
     Until our schools can stop simply teaching the bare minimum to every student just to make sure the worst students can keep up, we'll continue to have the issue.  I now have a daughter in the 1st grade, and I fear that things will only get worse for a long while before they get better. 

" @Everyones_A_Critic said:

 but I think it's fucked up to blame the kids. Let's face it: kids in high school didn't give two shits about their education fifty years ago, and they sure as Hell don't now. it's natural. The system is broken. "

Students are just as responsible for learning as the teachers. Teachers can't force a person to pay attention. If a student fails a class, it's not entirely the teacher's fault unless they were an incompetent twit. "

I think it is a few things 1. Like other people have said, the focus is not learning, the focus is passing test, 2. Our school system design is complete and utter bullshit. I came out of highschool with a 3.8 and the only classes I actually learned anything in where Chemistry, Physics, and American History mainly because all those classes where AP classes. If I hadn't taken any advanced classes, I cant imagine how fucking little I would have learned. Then, I go to college and my first two years were made up of more general classes that I didnt need in the least bit for what I was majoring in. Basically my point is we waste way too much time with general education that we dont need or those classes just aren't helping us learn anything. If highschool effectively taught you, then you wouldnt need all this extra bullshit in College. There is no way you would need to go to College for four years, especially since you just spent the last twelve years learning the basics of everything. College should be the time where you pick a specific major and then you focus on that with no extra crap mixed in. It will never become that way though because Colleges just want your money. 3. I feel like our culture is just complete shit. Just think about highschool and how fucked up and stupid its is. It's really pathetic. This nation is a nation of zero to little common sense. Most of the teenagers these days are almost literally retarded. It sorta makes me frustrated knowing how stupid all the people around me are lol. 
 
This is just a side note, but how many people in the US do you think actually read books. I would guess that 80% or our nation has never voluntarily read anything in their life.

Is anybody else getting Kefka's Theme jammed into their head just by reading every post?

Because in our capitalist society, people try to make a buck off everything by hiring shitty teachers. Also, some students are just plain assholes, but I think that's a control group factor that's impossible to get rid off. Basically, people think money will make problems go away.

I just find there's not enough forward planning on kids parts. For me It's simple, I study because I don't want to be stuck at a minimum wage job all my life and actually be a skilled worker. It seems a large proportion of friends just want to play videogames, go out and have fun.  
Lack of ambition as well.