Science fiction without social commentary

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feigr

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#1  Edited By feigr

I'm a big fan of science fiction in general but the thing I've never liked about it is all the social commentary that is often crammed into the so-called classics of science fiction like 1984, Brave New World, Fahrenheit 451 etc. 
I'm more interested in the rest of it, the mythos of whatever world it may take place in. For example I'm a big fan of Star Trek and yes I know it has social commentary but it has so much more, like all the different cultures and languages and traditions of the different races, the technology on the ships and how it works etc and that's what interests me. 
 
So, I am looking for some books or maybe movies that focus on that aspect of science fiction. Lately I've been reading some Warhammer 40K novels which are really good and I very much like the setting and the history/lore of Warhammer 40K in general. 
Maybe something similar to that or something completely different that matches what I described, please give me suggestions.

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warp

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#2  Edited By warp

Thats kinda tough because most of Science Fiction is all about social commentary. All the best novel series and writers were just as concerned about sending a message one way or the other. Sci Fi allows for those points of views to be shown in their extremes by reflecting it in exaggerated technology and race relations. All the big names like Asimov and Bradbury loved science but also loved exploring humanism and how our own minds can be our best friend and worst enemies.
 
 That being said the first couple of Dune novels are excellent and is more concerned about setting up a cool adventure in a completely original world. Just avoid everything after Dune Messiah. Same goes for the first books in the Enders Game series though that one has a larger moral point its used as a way to keep the plot going. 
 
You said you liked Star Trek so go with the Star Trek novels. Or Star Wars. Theres enough material there to last awhile and its all of the same tone as the movies so you know what kind of experience youre going for. Though to actively ignore classics that have something to say seems a tad misguided. Youre just gonna end up wading through a lot of mediocrity. But whatever floats your boat. 

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habster3

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#3  Edited By habster3

I can't tell you enough how much I hate your avatar.

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feigr

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#4  Edited By feigr
@habster3 said:
"

I can't tell you enough how much I hate your avatar.

"
My avatar? I think it's very innocuous compared to a lot of others. 
 
warp: Thanks for the recommendations, I hadn't thought about the Dune novels that might be something I could pick up after I'm finished with my current book. I do have tons of Star Trek novels in .txt (damn e-readers are still way too expensive) that I might get to in the future and the ones I've read have been interesting. 
 
I wouldn't say that I actively ignore classics, I'm just very sensitive to how pretentious some science fiction can get when it tries to make you think about how the world works in regards to politics and humanity etc. I fully understand the appeal of all that, it's just not for me. :)
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MarkWahlberg

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#5  Edited By MarkWahlberg
@warp said:

"   That being said the first couple of Dune novels are excellent and is more concerned about setting up a cool adventure in a completely original world. Just avoid everything after Dune Messiah.  "

 
 
The Dune series has more socio-political commentary than anything I've ever read. Ever. It's really interesting commentary, but there is roughly a jersey fuck ton of it in each book. And although I sorta agree with you on where to stop, it's kind of hard not to finish that books 2-4 storyline. 5 and 6 are just porn (seriously).  
 
 
The problem with your request is that the commentary is more often than not the whole point of science fiction. Like, historically, that's what it's used for. H.G. Wells getting his anti-war on and such. But if you really want some lighter fare, I'd go with... Firefly... and..... shit. I'm blanking here. I'll probably think of something when I'm going to bed tonight.
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warp

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#6  Edited By warp
@MarkWahlberg: 
 
True enough. Its been years since I read Dune and I was young enough to probably have missed a lot of the subtext and just enjoy the story as it stood on its own. And thats why I recommended it because the heart of the book is still a cool story. It wasnt till I was older did I actively try to go past Children of Dune and found the whole thing damn near incomprehensible. At least Messiah ends Pauls story in a decent enough way and only features one ghola. The way I figured, if my 15 year old self enjoyed it enough then its probably easy enough to get into. I would say try the prequels for a Dune "lite" experience, but I am simply not that cruel. 
 
Lets substitute that for Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.
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Alex_Murphy

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#7  Edited By Alex_Murphy

The best science fiction I ever read was the first two Red Dwarf books. I must have read each one like seven times. Unfortunately they're out of print, but last time I checked you can still find them online.

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#8  Edited By bacongames

Hmm...unfortunately a lot of assholes (i.e. writers) decided that just establishing an interesting world with interesting characters isn't enough.  I like you am sick and tired of well not only sci-fi but pretty much everything having a ham-fisted and/or unnecessary message.  Often times this is a product of a time that seeks to decry things that are either obvious or often over-simplified even if they warrant criticism.  I much prefer more interpretative messages in fiction that allow you to find a message without it beating you over the head with it if you choose to read into it that much.
 
Sadly I am much of a reader relative to my video game play and prefer the experience of sci-fi through my games to be honest.  I am not the one to recommend books to someone.  Game-wise all I can think of that fits your description is the Mass Effect franchise and Dawn of War II.  Sorry.

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zepp

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#9  Edited By zepp

Well no Stranger In a Strange Land for you.

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sagesebas

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#10  Edited By sagesebas
@Feigr: Your avatar is cool, I don't know if you'd call if Sci-fi exactly but Heavy Metal the animated film is really bitchin with no social commentary, or at least not overt. 
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#11  Edited By MarkWahlberg
@warp: Oh, I totally agree with you on the awesome story, and the increasing incomprehensibility of the sequels. And you're right, the first time I read Dune, I didn't catch much besides the main story. I'd recommend going back and rereading it, though, because when I did that, I realized it ends up being roughly half awesome story, half  eco-socio-political-religious whatnot that is interesting in itself. Or at least 2/3, 1/3. Whatever. It's good enough you don't need a specific reason to reread.  
  
 
I also agree with you on the terribleness of prequels, and the idea of substituting in Htichhikers. So basically I'm agreeing with you on damn near everything. Which must mean you're an awesome person. 
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deactivated-5fb7c57ae2335

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Hmm, I often enjoy the social commentary in sci-fi stuff, especially Phillip K. Dick's novels.  They're basically all about social commentary.

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NTM

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#13  Edited By NTM

You won't find one I don't think. All Sci-fi's have to do with social commentary one way or another, you just have to keep searching for one or more that have social commentaries that interest you in which the context they present it in. In some, the social commentaries are subtle because if you don't look at it the way it was meant to be it can be inexistent. Does that make any sense? Sorry if not. Doesn't matter really. I've read some good ones, but I don't really think I can personally help so I'll just let you look at this: 
 
Sci-Fi Lists - Top 100 Sci-Fi Books     
 
Some don't seem sci-fi, like Jurassic Park. But, look through it, and you may find what you're looking for.
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NTA_Luciana

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#14  Edited By NTA_Luciana

If you're not into social commentary, then sci-fi really isn't the genre for you. Social commentary is ostensibly as much a part of sci-fi as science itself.
 
That being said, the Hitchhiker's Guide series.

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captjim

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#15  Edited By captjim

all of the best sci-fi has social commentary. it's what makes it so interesting in most cases.
 
but so does a lot of the worst, come to think of it. actually next to all sci-fi has social commentary of some sort so if you actually want to read good science fiction and not just low-grade pulp, you're going to have to tolerate or appreciate the commentary.

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sparky_buzzsaw

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#16  Edited By sparky_buzzsaw

Richard Morgan's stuff is mostly for entertainment as opposed to social commentary (though he does dish out some social commentary, particularly against the government).  I'm also a big fan of David Gunn, who writes sci-fi war fiction that's really entertaining without being too mentally taxing.  I'm guessing you're going to be more of a Gunn fan, so give him a go first. 
 
EDIT: A great place to start would be to find some fiction you do enjoy, hop on Amazon, look up that particular book or author, and then skim through what authors and books are recommended alongside that one.  For example, I've never read Ian Douglas, but his books came up when I checked Death's Head's page on Amazon, so I'm guessing he too writes sci-fi action stuff.  Good luck!

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feigr

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#17  Edited By feigr
@Lucien_Lachance said:
" If you're not into social commentary, then sci-fi really isn't the genre for you. Social commentary is ostensibly as much a part of sci-fi as science itself.  That being said, the Hitchhiker's Guide series. "
I wouldn't say that science fiction has to be about social commentary. Warhammer 40K which I brought up in my original post is a good example of that and I think that is because it is its own universe. It's not us in the future. Sure it has humans but in the same way that Lord of the Rings has humans even though that's not set in the real world 600 years ago or anything like that. When you have a universe like that with its own history and lore it becomes something much more interesting to me. Star Trek is sort of halfway there since it's set so far in the future and the connections to the present world are relatively few and/or not that significant to the story or the world as a whole. 
 
Someone mentioned the Red Dwarf books and those sound very intriguing since I'm a huge fan of the show and have probably watched every episode like 20 times by now. I really like that type of comedic science fiction such as Hitchhikers of course and Prostho Plus by Piers Anthony. Perhaps I should check out more of Piers Anthony's books since that's the only one I've read.
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Tennmuerti

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#18  Edited By Tennmuerti

Yeah Dune is nothing but social commentary :/ More then half the books contents are just politics and economics heh
Still love them tho.


I truly recommend looking up Peter F. Hamilton's books.
The Night's Dawn trilogy might be a bit too heavy to start with but it and also ones like The Fallen Dragon / Pandora's Star / Judas Unchained are really cool books that focus more on the setting then the social commentary, it's still there  but not to a degree that some other writers like to go to.
(that's unavoidable, even Warhammer 40k has it if you think about it, stagnation of progress under tyrant emeror / chaos as extreme of freedom, etc)

Also Lord of the Rings is social commentary on the industrial revolution and the world war :P

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abbeyroad992

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#19  Edited By abbeyroad992

2001: A Space Odyssey, greatest sci-fi movie ever

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deactivated-6109c8479bb3d

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I'm approaching the topic from a slightly different approach. 
 
I imagine it's hard for science fiction NOT to be commentary in one way or another. First, I think it's because the "science fiction" part itself is some sort of idealization of something more contemporary. Whether you envision a more realistic future as more "utopian" or "distopian", it will be commentary one way or another. If you address just the technology, the applications themselves have very social implications, whether it's cybernetics, weaponry, travel, communications (cyber-brain chat anyone?) etc... because these things do have social impact. Creating sci-fi like Star Wars tends to lean on the more fantasy-side of things, BUT... then it usually focuses more on "human drama" or interplay between characters, because, even if the world is very alien, we still need a point of universal reference that anyone can follow, that being the drama, conflict, and relationship. 
 
Even 2001: A Space Odyssey, focuses on humanity's greater place in the universe, as a species (at least, you can get the greater context from the novel). That, too, can easily be taken as socio-political commentary. I guess, what I'm trying to do is: how exactly do we make sci-fi NOT commentary, if everything can be commentary? 

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MysteriousBob

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#21  Edited By MysteriousBob
@habster3 said:
"

I can't tell you enough how much I hate your avatar.

"
Thats... random. What's wrong with it? The only avatars that offend me are anime ones.
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wjkelso

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#22  Edited By wjkelso

@Feigr: 

So you want the believable world, characters and lore without the subtext? Sounds like you should be reading fantasy novels, not sci-fi, although they're are alot of fantas novels that also have a "message". Just my two cents though.    

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#23  Edited By Shadow

any sort of conflict at all can be taken as social commentary.  Any sort of interaction between anyone or anything is social commentary.  What you want is insanely boring.

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ryanwho

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#24  Edited By ryanwho

Pure pulp is more fun. You can come up with interesting ideas attempting to devise a message and often at the expense of taking something to its full potential. Philip K Dick did that all the time. Came up with something and stopped short of full potential because he got his message across. 
I've been watching a lot of MST3k lately and I've found Im oddly in love with a lot of these clearly bad movies because they have absolutely no pretense or greater goal. There is a certain level of purity you get in scifi when you take out the preachy bullshit. I don't need a cautionary tale inserted into a story about moon men. Moon men don't exist. So the idea that scifi requires commentary is stupid. Futurism perhaps. But once you throw in some bullshit like aliens, you don't need to be saying anything. 

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ryanwho

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#25  Edited By ryanwho
@Shadow said:

" any sort of conflict at all can be taken as social commentary.  Any sort of interaction between anyone or anything is social commentary.  What you want is insanely boring. "

What he's asking for is something not overtly preachy. This isn't rocket science and a ton of scifi qualifies. Next you'll tell me games without a message are boring. Ugh. Young people. 
You honetly think anyone saw The Matrix for the message? It had one. People got to the seats because it had superman kung fu. People see most scifi independent of whatever message it might be shoving down the audience's throat.
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Meowayne

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#26  Edited By Meowayne

Ha ha, "science fiction without social commentary".

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MetalGearGeorge

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#27  Edited By MetalGearGeorge
@ryanwho said:
" Pure pulp is more fun. You can come up with interesting ideas attempting to devise a message and often at the expense of taking something to its full potential. Philip K Dick did that all the time. Came up with something and stopped short of full potential because he got his message across. I've been watching a lot of MST3k lately and I've found Im oddly in love with a lot of these clearly bad movies because they have absolutely no pretense or greater goal. There is a certain level of purity you get in scifi when you take out the preachy bullshit. I don't need a cautionary tale inserted into a story about moon men. Moon men don't exist. So the idea that scifi requires commentary is stupid. Futurism perhaps. But once you throw in some bullshit like aliens, you don't need to be saying anything.  "
Dude you totally can't criticize P.K. Dick. Every piece of modern science fiction that is popular today is either influenced by him, Asimov or Orwell!!! And don't forget that sci-fi writers are modern philosophers that use fiction as a means of conveying their message. As for the recommendations why don't you start reading comics from companies such as 2000ad, Radical and Dark horse? There is a good amount of very interesting sci-fi stories in their collections.
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ryanwho

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#28  Edited By ryanwho
@MetalGearGeorge: I'm allowed to like someone and not think they're perfect. Normal people are capable of that. One of the reason Dick stories translate to film so well is they're full of interesting elements that were never fully developed and a movie comes in a expands on them.
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Meowshi

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#29  Edited By Meowshi

The social commentary behind Starcraft II is that Blizzard wants all your money.

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MetalGearGeorge

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#30  Edited By MetalGearGeorge
@ryanwho:  Well if every P.K. Dick storyline was developed to the fullest there would probably be thousands of P.K. Dick books since he spawned a brand new universe in each of his short stories. And every movie based on his stories was watered down and changed drastically  in terms of plot so that people who would otherwise find the stories boring and hard to comprehend could enjoy them. There is yet to be a decent adaptation of a P.K.D. story.