Would you believe in God if there was scientific evidence?

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Video_Game_King

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#701  Edited By Video_Game_King

Huh? Aren't those quotes somewhat out of context? Didn't the Greeks at least theorize about these things before the Bible?
 
@Isaac said:

Can you prove it is 4 billion? "
Must...resist....temptation....to push.... this key....
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#702  Edited By MrKlorox
@Video_Game_King said:
" Must...resist....temptation....to push.... this key.... "
Why is Destroy written in English on an obviously not English keyboard?
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#703  Edited By dtat

I really truly believe that the Bible shouldn't be taken literally. It has some very good mesages, but its explainations of creation, like all religions, are outdated. They were conceived of at a time when people didn't have the means to understand the way the world worked. As we learn new things, scientific theories are debunked. People in Greece once thought that Gods lived on Mt. Olympus. Now we can travel to the top and see that there are no gods there. The problem with modern religions is that they manage to keep most of their explanations vague enough that they cannot be disproven yet. (Except for the timeline in Genesis. we can prove that the earth is older than they think.)
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#704  Edited By Video_Game_King
@MrKlorox said:
" @Video_Game_King said:
" Must...resist....temptation....to push.... this key.... "
Why is Destroy written in English on an obviously not English keyboard? "
Because stupidity does not know one language, so the response has to be readily understood.....actually, it's easier for me to admit to not knowing.
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#705  Edited By JoelTGM

It just doesn't seem reasonable to say there is a god, that we go to heaven, that this bible is the bible that tells the truth about god, and that all the other religions and their scriptures are fairy tales and shouldn't be taken seriously.  That just sounds ignorant.  Being scientific means having an open mind.  The more developed religious followers out there are open minded as well, in that they live and let live; they accept other religions, and choose not to think about proving who is right or wrong and instead focus on the values that are taught in their religion as well as others.  I think if you follow a religion to learn good values, that's good of you, but if you follow a religion and believe you and your Jesus are right and everyone else is wrong, you still have a ways to go in life.
 
As for the topic question, obviously if there was real scientific evidence proving the existence of a god, and I don't mean if they found Jesus's tomb or something, I would believe it but only after fully understanding it.  But again, even talking like that sounds ignorant, because by asking a question like that, you are shrugging off all the other religions, and saying your religion is the only one worthy of such a question.

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#706  Edited By trophyhunter

the Babel Fish could not possibly have developed naturally, and therefore proves the existence of God as its creator. However, as Man points out, God needs faith to exist, and this proof dispels the need for faith, therefore causing God to vanish in a puff of logic. Then Man says, "my, that was easy" and goes on to prove that black is white, and gets killed on the next zebra crossing.

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ZombieHunterOG

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#707  Edited By ZombieHunterOG
@Whisperkill said:
" @ZombieHunter said:
" the bible isnt even fact its just parables that are made to teach a lesson and make you a better person "
Well to be fair there are a lot of actual stories in there that actually happened. "
Holy crap bud, 
 
 
that post is like a year old' 
 
 if god was real he would kick you in the nuts
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#708  Edited By Ben_H
@Isaac said:

" Creation is made of particles, indiscernible to our eyes (Hebrews 11:3). Not until the 19th century was it discovered that all visible matter consists of invisible elements.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy) explained (Psalm 102:25-26). This law states that everything in the universe is running down, deteriorating, constantly becoming less and less orderly. Entropy (disorder) entered when mankind rebelled against God – resulting in the curse (Genesis 3:17; Romans 8:20-22). Historically most people believed the universe was unchangeable. Yet modern science verifies that the universe is “grow(ing) old like a garment” (Hebrews 1:11). Evolution directly contradicts this law.
"

Creationists seem to be to lazy to actually look up the second law of thermodynamics (Or really anything they use in arguments.).
 
Here, let's let Talk Origins tear that garbage apart.  Here's some of the main points I found within the article.  A thorough explanation of the second law of thermodynamics is within the link posted.
 
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo/probability.html    
  

Failure to understand that in thermodynamics probabilities are not fixed entities has led to a misinterpretation that is responsible for the wide- spread and totally false belief that the second law of thermodynamics does not permit order to spontaneously arise from disorder. In fact, there are many examples in nature where order does arise spontaneously from disorder: Snowflakes with their six-sided crystalline symmetry are formed spontaneously from randomly moving water vapor molecules. Salts with precise planes of crystalline symmetry form spontaneously when water evaporates from a solution. Seeds sprout into flowering plants and eggs develop into chicks.

 
Thermodynamics is an exact science that is based on a limited number of specific mathematical concepts. It is not explainable in terms of qualitative metaphors. In order to understand the relationship between probability and the second law, the reader must be familiar with the relationship between probability and entropy. Entropy is a mathematically defined entity which is the fundamental basis of the second law of thermodynamics and all of its engineering and physical chemistry ramifications. 

 

Creationists assume that a change characterized by a decrease in entropy can not occur under any circumstances. In fact, spontaneous entropy decreases can, and do, occur all the time, providing sufficient energy is available. The fact that the water wheel and pump are man-built contraptions has no bearing on the case: thermodynamics does not concern itself with the detailed description of a system; it deals only with the relationship between initial and final states of a given system (in this case, the water wheel and pump).

A favorite argument of creationists is that the probability of evolution occurring is about the same as the probability that a tornado blowing through a junkyard could form an airplane. They base this argument on their belief that changes in living things have a very low probability and could not occur without "intelligent design" which overcomes the laws of thermodynamics. This represents a fundamental contradiction in which (they say) evolution is inconsistent with thermodynamics because thermodynamics doesn't permit order to spontaneously arise from disorder, but creationism (in the guise of intelligent design) doesn't have to be consistent with the laws of thermodynamics.

 
A simpler analogy to the airplane/junkyard scenario would be the stacking of three blocks neatly on top of each other. To do this, intelligent design is required, but stacking does not violate the laws of 
thermodynamics. The same relations hold for this activity as for any other activity involving thermodynamical energy changes. It is true that the blocks will not stack themselves, but as far as thermodynamics is concerned, all that is required is the energy to pick them up and place them one on top of the other. Thermodynamics merely correlates the energy relationships in going from state A to state B. If the energy relationships permit, the change may occur. If they don't permit it, the change can not occur. A ball will not spontaneously leap up from the floor, but if it is dropped, it will spontaneously bounce up from the floor. Whether the ball is lifted by intelligent design or just happens to fall makes no difference.

On the other hand, thermodynamics does not rule out the possibility of intelligent design; it is just simply not a factor with respect to the calculation of thermodynamic probability.

Considering the earth as a system, any change that is accompanied by an entropy decrease (and hence going back from higher probability to lower probability) is possible as long as sufficient energy is available. The ultimate source of most of that energy, is of course, the sun.

 
The numerical calculation of entropy changes accompanying physical and chemical changes are very well understood and are the basis of the mathematical determination of free energy, emf characteristics of voltaic cells, equilibrium constants, refrigeration cycles, steam turbine operating parameters, and a host of other parameters. The creationist position would necessarily discard the entire mathematical framework of thermodynamics and would provide no basis for the engineering design of turbines, refrigeration units, industrial pumps, etc. It would do away with the well-developed mathematical relationships of physical chemistry, including the effect of temperature and pressure on equilibrium constants and phase changes.


 
Oh, and using the Bible as evidence is pointless.  I could use S.E. Hinton's "The Outsiders" as evidence of the existence of a person named Ponyboy and I would be on just as fair of ground.  Both books have little to no factual evidence in them except that we already know that "The Outsiders" is a work of fiction. 

 

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@Isaac said:

" Patchinko said:

"DualReaver said:

"Isaac said:
"Patchinko said:
"Interpreting scripture to make it seem like it's talking about scientific facts is not evidence of God.

It's evidence of creative interpretation skills."

Guess Ya really can't teach an old dog new tricks."
... Isn't it the other way around?"
Yeah, wow.

The ironing is delicious, Isaac."
The thing is I don't see you reasoning. I want you to enjoy life like I do. That's why I show you all these things. I KNOW he is real. I just want you all to take a second and think. "
So... you think that athiests don't enjoy life because they don't believe in a god?  I don't usually respond to religion threads because it degrades into insults and hypocrisy and general chaos almost immediately... but dude, just wow.
 
Also, I can respect a Christian that believes in God sincerely and doesn't run around making an ass of himself by looking down on atheists and all other religious beliefs and flat out telling them "you're wrong".  I can't respect a Christian that goes around looking down on everyone that is not Christian.  You're just making Christians look like asses.  Why do you think it's your job to go around and try to convert people?  It just makes everyone less likely to believe in God.  Think of someone coming up to you in a mall trying to sell you something you're not convinced of and they just won't stop.  The more that guy sticks around bugging you to buy it, the less likely you're going to want to have anything to do with it.  So if you're making an effect on any non-Christian it's probably one that makes them less likely to ever consider believing in God.  Sorry to flame you about it, but it's true.
 
I'm agnostic by the way.  (I believe if there is a higher power he gives not a shit about what we do, and only created the first life and let things evolve from there.)
 
 
EDIT:  Shit, I just realized this thread was resurrected from the dead.  SHOOT IT IN THE HEAD!
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#710  Edited By raidingkvatch

If there was enough evidence to support the theory and no way to definitively to disprove it resulting in consensus among the scientific community, then yes I would believe in God, however the point of religion, or having a faith, is precisely that: Faith requires belief and devotion despite a lack of evidence, hence the position of my beliefs which does not exclude that the possibility of God, however without evidence I can not believe in anything beyond the Big Bang

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Akeldama

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#711  Edited By Akeldama

I dont like where this is going...

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#712  Edited By nickmax123

i dont believe stories where an elderly man built an arc to fit two of EVERY animal species in the world.
 
plus, it has caused so much death and destruction, and it can't be proven to be real. but dinosaurs that lived hundreds of millions of years ago can be proven, therefore the bible is just a really good fairy tale.

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#713  Edited By JonathanMoore
@Karmum said:
" Isaac said:
"Dakota said:
"I don't believe there is evidence. One book that shows some scientific revelation by those who wrote the bible is not enough to consider anyone who is logical in their beliefs."

The Bible is the word of God. Through the people who physically wrote it. The evidence is right in front of you. Just try to give it a thought."
When you can prove to me the world is 6,000 years old, is when the Bible is factual evidence. "
This.
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#714  Edited By CharleyTony

Im not an atheist nd not a believer, I just don't care about that stuff... 
Humans have done so many stupid things in the name of God, that following any organized religion seems ludicrous. 
 
And it is very easy to find new meanings in old texts. Just check out what you can imply by looking at the writings of Nostradamus. 
Funny that all those predictions, which ever they are found have never served to predict something before it actually happened, only to link a certain event to something witten a long time ago. Considering how much documentation is available these days and our advancements in searching such works, you could probably make predictive links to any true or false event / statement, if you looked long enough...  
 
PS: when a religion tell you about what is God's will, how can change their minds afterwards ? They are supposed to be infalible. 
It is a shame that when societies seperate Church and State, they can't find a way to keep the good parts of it...
 
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rflx

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#715  Edited By rflx

When will people learn that you can't reason with creationists.

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#716  Edited By Shadow

Well if you're going to be a dick about it, you can't "prove" anything is anything.  That doesn't mean that you're suddenly right about the thing YOU can't prove.

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addictedtopinescent

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Didn't like, a ancient Greek philosopher or something talk about invisible particles, and that was before the bible? 
this:  
@rflx said:

" When will people learn that you can't reason with creationists. "

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#718  Edited By MrKlorox
@Shadow said:
" you can't "prove" anything is anything "
Ultimate cop-out.
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SeriouslyNow

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#719  Edited By SeriouslyNow
@Isaac said:
" Patchinko said:
"Interpreting scripture to make it seem like it's talking about scientific facts is not evidence of God.

It's evidence of creative interpretation skills."
Guess Ya really can't teach an old dog new tricks. "
More like you can't use old tricks by spruicing them up in vague connections to real science.  If you want to get old testament, the devil has many names Isaac.
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artofwar420

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#720  Edited By artofwar420

I'd believe in him as much as I believe I'm typing on a keyboard but I probably wouldn't worship him/her/it, seems like an egotistical jerk.

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pwnasaurus

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#721  Edited By pwnasaurus

ITS THE SECOND COMING OF THE RELIGION THREAD FEAR NOW SINNERS AND BLASPHMERES!
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ravensword

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#722  Edited By ravensword

Sure, why not.
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bjorno

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#723  Edited By bjorno

i am god.

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#724  Edited By grok70
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#725  Edited By captain_clayman
@Patchinko said:
" Interpreting scripture to make it seem like it's talking about scientific facts is not evidence of God.It's evidence of creative interpretation skills. "
this 
  
someone could write that god is a space lemon that shits out of his eyes 
 
and you could probably make it seem true with some fancy science talk.
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#726  Edited By captain_clayman
@Isaac said:
" Karmum said:
"Isaac said:
"Dakota said:
"I don't believe there is evidence. One book that shows some scientific revelation by those who wrote the bible is not enough to consider anyone who is logical in their beliefs."

The Bible is the word of God. Through the people who physically wrote it. The evidence is right in front of you. Just try to give it a thought."
When you can prove to me the world is 6,000 years old, is when the Bible is factual evidence."
Can you prove it is 4 billion? "
carbon dating?
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ryanwho

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#727  Edited By ryanwho
@captain_clayman said:
" @Patchinko said:
" Interpreting scripture to make it seem like it's talking about scientific facts is not evidence of God.It's evidence of creative interpretation skills. "
this   someone could write that god is a space lemon that shits out of his eyes  and you could probably make it seem true with some fancy science talk. "
No you couldn't. You're no Tom Cruise.
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#728  Edited By ErgoProxy77

I think that whoever believes in a god or gods is delusional, irrational, illogical, and naive.

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#729  Edited By MrKlorox

No Caption Provided
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#730  Edited By ryanwho
@ErgoProxy77 said:
" I think that whoever believes in a god or gods is delusional, irrational, illogical, and naive. "
And I'm sure you'll make the world a better place calling people names on the internet. 
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SeriouslyNow

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#731  Edited By SeriouslyNow
@ryanwho said:
" @ErgoProxy77 said:
" I think that whoever believes in a god or gods is delusional, irrational, illogical, and naive. "
And I'm sure you'll make the world a better place calling people names on the internet.  "
Dude you need to learn the difference between name-calling and adjective description. 
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ryanwho

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#732  Edited By ryanwho
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @ryanwho said:
" @ErgoProxy77 said:
" I think that whoever believes in a god or gods is delusional, irrational, illogical, and naive. "
And I'm sure you'll make the world a better place calling people names on the internet.  "
Dude you need to learn the difference between name-calling and adjective description.  "
All of those are nouns, and you're being a retard again. Save face real quick, I'm tagging out.
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SeriouslyNow

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#733  Edited By SeriouslyNow
@ryanwho said:
" @SeriouslyNow said:
" @ryanwho said:
" @ErgoProxy77 said:
" I think that whoever believes in a god or gods is delusional, irrational, illogical, and naive. "
And I'm sure you'll make the world a better place calling people names on the internet.  "
Dude you need to learn the difference between name-calling and adjective description.  "
All of those are nouns, and you're being a retard again. Save face real quick, I'm tagging out. "
My god, but you're stupid.
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#734  Edited By Termite
@Isaac said:
" Creation is made of particles, indiscernible to our eyes (Hebrews 11:3). Not until the 19th century was it discovered that all visible matter consists of invisible elements.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy) explained (Psalm 102:25-26). This law states that everything in the universe is running down, deteriorating, constantly becoming less and less orderly. Entropy (disorder) entered when mankind rebelled against God – resulting in the curse (Genesis 3:17; Romans 8:20-22). Historically most people believed the universe was unchangeable. Yet modern science verifies that the universe is “grow(ing) old like a garment” (Hebrews 1:11). Evolution directly contradicts this law.
"
I am not going to read all of the replies to this thread, for they are many, but just in case this hasn't been pointed out yet I'll say it: 
 
Evolution does not contradict the second law. To say so is silly. That is all.
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#735  Edited By Jambones
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deactivated-630b11c195a3b

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@Isaac said:
" Dakota said:
"I don't believe there is evidence. One book that shows some scientific revelation by those who wrote the bible is not enough to consider anyone who is logical in their beliefs."
The Bible is the word of God. Through the people who physically wrote it. The evidence is right in front of you. Just try to give it a thought. "
kay................ nope still ridiculous.
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#737  Edited By jinxman

yes i would believe in God if there was definitive scientific proof right before my eyes, but what you've written there is not it.

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deactivated-5f9398c1300c7

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Scientists found evidence that the Red Sea was separated, according to the position of the sea's dirt.

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#739  Edited By Frederik
@Isaac: Yeah you can observe that the universe is expanding from a single point, and at which speed and then calculate how long it took the suns, nebulas' and what not to get that far (major oversimplification but hey, this is a site about games) 
 
Doesn't mean that there isn't a god/creator it just means that the old testament is a book written 3000-2100 years ago... We've got plenty of historical evidence that Jesus lived and had a huge following, and he definitely made some major philosophical changes to the world, but whether he was gods son, we just don't know. 
 
I'm very down with the new testament and it's messages but that whole book is philosophy to me and not the eternal truth... The bible was written by man, man makes mistakes.  
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#740  Edited By MrKlorox

The answer I wanna say would be "I would abandon science if our thoughts all of a sudden aligned."

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#741  Edited By Frederik

You can also look at the half-life of radioactive materials (radioactive decay)... It takes around 4.5 billion years for Uranium-238 to decay to Thorium-234 alone...

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#742  Edited By Ryax

no

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thebatmobile

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#743  Edited By thebatmobile

I don't think that it's the point of God to prove that he exists. Everybody knows deep down that science explains our world and that God is more of a guide than a material being. God is for weak people that need someone to tell them what to do or feel.

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#744  Edited By Frederik
@thebatmobile: Yeah god is for losers who needs to "share" their cuddly feely feelings... Everyone knows that all the popular kids use a  psychologist for that, which is way cooler! 
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#745  Edited By thebatmobile
@Frederik: Or deal with them on their own. Alternatively, your family. God is an outdated concept in this current time of history. I could imagine it was a relief to believe in a higher being 500-1000 years ago, when the circumstances were harsher. But come on, with our knowledge now, it seems stupid to believe in something so rudimentary.
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#746  Edited By Manatassi
@Isaac: 
 
 Neither scientific theory or the bible can be effectively "proven" its all subjective to our own perceptions and therefore this thread is a little futile. Science has interestingly verified quite a large portion of statements about the universe that were recorded in the bible. This is interesting but it in itself cannot "prove" the existence of god or even the divinity of the Bible. 
 
Unfortunately I think you might find posting a positive spin toward Christianity on these forums will undoubtedly result in an equally negative spin coming back at you. These forums are allot like a universe unto itself with its own set of physical laws. :) 
 
For myself the scientific evidence provided for the existence of some form of divine/spiritual influence over our lives is interesting. However it is not conclusive. Neither has this been disproven using scientific method. All this really tells me is that we are not sufficiently advanced as a species to use anything other than Faith to establish what we believe, and attempting to apply science to faith is beyond us at this point. If the Bible is to be believed we wont be proving the existence of God any time soon...  so as a christian do you think it worth trying to convert people with Scientific methods?  
 
Perhaps you have missed a contradiction there that Douglas Adams so neatly picked up on. If mankind proves the existence of God conclusively then god was wrong when he said that he would be the one to do so when the time came, therefor he couldn't be God and thus does not exist.  
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mano521

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#747  Edited By mano521

if there was evidence, clear cut, not interpreted from some book that we dont even know is legitimate, then i would. the OP clearly does not understand is that the bible is full of such tripe and impossibilities that its not a reliable source in any way

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landon

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#748  Edited By landon

This is a video game website, so I'm going to talk about video games.
 
 
Many people believe that The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time is the Greatest Video Game Of All Time, and was perfect in every way. Though when it was no more, Nintendo promised a second coming. A game just as good would take us away from our girlfriends and jobs, and we would sit down in peace and be taken in. Many believe it was Twilight Princess, though others believe that was false greatness. Others believe that that there IS no Greatest Game Of All Time and we should all just play what we want and stop worrying. I am a believer that there is a Greatest Game Of All Time, and one day it will come.

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jlanzer

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#749  Edited By jlanzer

but there can't be a greatest game of all time because there are so many different genres and views people hold.  There can be no impartial evidence because its based on opinion and personal bias.  I can tell you what's wrong with one person's pick and what's right with another's, but really the greatest game of all time is for the individual to decide for themselves, not what other people tell them is great.  

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blackbird415

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#750  Edited By blackbird415
@Isaac: what form of christianity are you? just wondering