Engh. I don't think a female lead in GTA would succeed in any meaningful way. Aside from being completely irrelevant, like in Saint's Row, the changes they would need to make wouldn't be conducive to the gameplay that makes GTA, GTA.

I think the majority of people who want a female lead, want one for the sexualized novelty of it. The dumb (if I have to look at characters butt for 50 hours why wouldn't it be one I like to look at) or whatever.

But if we're putting that aside, I think, then, what in the game would change? GTA is basically about testosterone run amok. So there COULD be a female lead, but would she be what you're thinking of when you think of "female lead"? Because I'm sure most people think about a svelte, sexy young woman as the "female lead" they want, and not, say, a 40 year old, heavy set black woman. (I'm black.)

I mean, how many people would have bought GTA 5 if the roles were just gender reversed? A team of 3 women. One is an overweight white lady in her mid-forties, one is a young African american woman who talks like she was raised in the ghetto, and one is a crazy, ugly, dirty, drug addled white lady in her mid forties from the trailer park who looks like she is physically falling apart.

I feel like that game would sell 12 copies.

I would be 100% behind rockstar introducing a female GTA protagonist just so everyone would shut the fuck up about it.

Oh cool looks like cracked was always really stupid. Good to know I thought the article a week ago was a first. Guess not.

I'd play a GTA game with a female main character. I find this whole crusade annoying but there should be more female characters in games. GTA would skewer them accordingly just like they do with all their characters.

I think people who think GTA needs to do something different are just uncreative people who can't imagine how to change the game, so they go for the easiest, most obvious (and short sighted) thing. Leave that to saints row.

I would love to see an all female team make a GTA equivalent from a female perspective, though. I really wonder what that would be like. I watched a really interesting documentary on the world's most notorious female serial killers one time. That was fascinating.

Finally, someone gets it.

@video_game_king: Using Seanbaby to cite anything serious is impossible.

Really is it time? I wasn't sure but now that we decided it..

No it's not time. Tired of this forced shit. Let them making the character whomever they want. They have no obligation to do so.

Why not make her hispanic, asian, black, middle eastern, gay and mentally challenged while we're at it? Get all the progressive bullshit out of the way. I am 100% against having a woman protagonist if they are just doing it to fill some quota. If they're going to do it, they need to be genuine about it. I'm so sick of people condemning media for not supporting their agenda. If Rockstar chooses not to have a female protagonist in the next GTA game, does that make them sexist? If the next Doctor Who or James Bond is not black, does that make them racist? People need to stop calling for this shit just for the sake of having change. The last thing I want games to become is some fake, shitty stock photo about diversity in the workplace.

I am all for equal representation in all forms of media, but I really fucking hate it when people guilt trip others into supporting them under threat of being called sexist or racist.

@minipato: are you saying there's something wrong with people who are hispanic, asian, black, middle eastern, gay and mentally challenged all at the same time? Racist.

I'm not arguing that they treat women well; I'm just arguing that there are female characters in Red Dead that are more than sex jokes. Bonnie MacFarlane, for instance, while the target of some pretty horrific misogynistic abuse by other characters is nevertheless a well realized and fleshed out character and exists in a larger capacity than simply as an excuse for the developers to make distasteful jokes.

I got a good laugh out of this.

It's topics like this that make people dislike feminist.

Let them do whatever the hell they want - I know I would absolutely HATE being pressured to create a character I don't feel comfortable with simply because there's a increasingly big movement for more prominent female roles in video games. At this rate, people will call ANY game that doesn't star a prominent female lead as sexist.

In Euro Truck Simulator, you can play as whatever gender/race/sexual orientation you want. It's clearly the most progressive game of the generation.

I wonder what would happen if they would do a black female character that is shittalking like CJ and co. I bet a lot of people would rage and call it misogynistic and racist

I would be very interested to see them do a female lead, but only if that's a story they want to tell. It won't be good if it's forced.

Nah

A female lead? What does it matter? You'll still be doing the same shit.

We're still talking about VIDEO GAMES here, right?

to get stuff like that^^

But seriously if you want to support female leads buy this game.

Do people actually believe that anyone is trying to "force" Rockstar to write a female protagonists? Or that they want them to just shove a woman into the story for the sake of having a woman?

No one is demanding anything. People have the right to wish things were a certain way and Rockstar has the right to not listen to these people. AND these people have the right to criticize Rockstar for not listening.

The whole issue boils down to people wanting better written stories in games. Getting away from the typical male perspective that we always see is one way in which people want games to grow from a narrative perspective. That doesn't mean that EVERY game needs to get away from the typical video game storytelling but just that there should be more. Rockstar, being one of the premiere story tellers in games, is obviously going to be looked at for pioneering some sort of change. If they don't want to? Okay!

But stop acting like Rockstar's precious creative freedom is being snatched away and thinking you need to defend them like they're some oppressed artists. You sound like a bunch of white knights.

@milkman: Hotline Miami 2 was already victim of forced censorship because of these people. So yes that is exactly what these people want. The last of Us was also criticized by these people because you did not play as Ellie for the whole game. GTA was just another example of games these people want a female lead. They want to force it.

@darji: Dennaton only pulled the rape scene from the press demo and said that the scene is "under revision." You and I don't know what that means so I'm not going assume anything. It could be there exactly as is for all we know.

If people want to criticize The Last of Us, that's their right. That's not censorship. Also, if I don't personally agree with them, their criticisms were a bit more nuanced than "you don't play as Ellie for the whole game."

Whoa whoa whoa. Hotline Miami 2 was not the victim of anything. The developers didn't say anything about taking the offending "scene" out but rather that they were going to examine how it fit into the larger picture and if they could provide better context to why it was there in the first place. Quit making things up.

I would like to see the GTA team take a crack at a female character because I think they probably stand a better chance at it than most other triple-A game developers.

Most games these days have C-minus grade knock-off stories as re-imagined by an 13 year old boy.

Rockstar, on the other hand, at least does solid B-movie crime stories, that, while still being knock-offs for the most part, demonstrate a control of tone and character that shows they've got real talent. GTA IV showed how they wanted to tell the story of an "outsider" (an immigrant in that case), and I think showing a woman criminal would be a logical step in that theme, if they want to tackle it (and I honestly think they will).

By the way, @darji, your services as a valiant defender of game developers against the imaginary feminist hoards are not needed, they'll be fine without your help ;)

Female protagonist would be just fine. To me its not an issue of what gender you play as, i have come to find GTA really annoying in the way that it doesn't let me make my own character, and let me decide what to do.

Of course that also means they can't write a linear story as they have done in the past. But that would make the game an actual sandbox game, not a linear game disguised as a sandbox game.

I'm sick of this shit. So sick of it.

It's not a big deal. If they want to have a female character, they'll have a female character. Stop pressuring them into doing something they don't want to do.

What big new perspective would having a female lead offer? Don't say "from the female perspective". No, i mean define what the fuck you mean by that. Because it doesn't matter one bit. Criminals are often sexist scumbags, so a female character would probably be treated like crap, with clothing options you could probably dress her all slutty like.

If they made a female character, they'd probably sexualize the crap out of her. She'd use her looks and "assets" to distract and bribe cops and all that. Cus thats what a female criminal would do. Maybe she's an ex-prositute who killed her pimp and took over. I dunno, makes sense. I would like that character, it'd be cool. However the problem is people would complain even more about it. GTA characters are not good people. This female character would be no different, with this whole sexism witchhunt going on people would jump at the chance to attack a female GTA character for being "sexist".

They could not win this situation. Either they have a female character and have a billion articles written by "journalists" calling them sexist cus she's involved in a sex scene or something, or they don't have a female character and get called sexist for not having one. They can't win this at all. Why would they do it just to appease people who complain about this crap when theres no real way to please them.

he said that he thought it was a cool idea and they removed the scene to "fix" it because of these claims It did not need any fixing nor is Hotline miami a game for a broder audience anyway.

You and me both. Next people will complain that they want a female lead for a God of War game.

I think Rockstar could make a good game with a female lead. I don't know if it has to be a GTA game.

The writers on GTA V said that they write from a male perspective because they are males themselves. They feel like they would not be able to get the nuances of a female perspective in a way that a lot of game critics would want.

It sounds like they believe that if they were to write a female protagonist then it would end up being exactly the same as a male protagonist, only with boobs. Is that what you really want? I think that just as many people would be angry at that result as if GTA VI had another male protagonist.

If the industry wants a GTA with a female protagonist then the industry needs more women who want to become game designers. The game design course I took this semester has almost fifty students enrolled and there are zero women in the class.

I cant think of a female lead doing all the stuff the male's do in GTA. I mean sure do it in Saints row its all cartoony and it doesn't matter a thin runway model like woman just dragged a obese man from his car like he was a balloon of helium.

If they did a female lead in gta which is more reality based and did all the things the guys did they would end up looking more like a dude and all the acts they did would probably look wrong if they were still taken as a woman E.G Torture. I am sure there would be a massive controversy because of it.

Its not as simple as "Cast a female lead." If you start writing for a female lead you need to understand whats right and whats wrong. What will make them not just a dude with tits, or make them do physically defying things.

Then on top of that write a character that is believable that a woman could be like this and not some male's perspective on what they think.

Its very complicated to put female lead into GTA that isn't just evil/psycho since this would lead to a horrible fall out.

Look at heavenly sword, look at Tomb Raider, look at Beyond Good and evil. These female leads were not physically strong and most of the time its fighting for survival while righting wrongs.

When they write a female character in most other games they are just guys with tits and massive tits at that.

Its a challenge....but its a pretty financially ruining challenge. If you dont do it right you've ruined your efforts.

Also how many woman are doing the same level of crime as guys are in real life? Yes there are criminal mastermind women but they aren't the "muscle" GTA is about the "muscle" the guy sent out to do the dirty work.

They need to write a world and situation were a female is more likely to be in and even possibly thrive.

Which I would think having a criminal boss female lead would be more likely except she would just send her muscle to do stuff. Then it wouldn't be fun and I am sure people would not like to think of the only position for a woman in crime is hiding behind guys...so if you can write the setting and not have backlash it would be more helpful than just wishing for it.

TL:DR Its not as simple could ruin a company if done wrong and if you think its possible why don't you write a story were it would be believable and not cause a backlash.

@lively said:

what does this mean? They are black? they look sad they are criminals?^^

@darji said:

@lively said:

what does this mean? They are black? they look sad they are criminals?^^

Fans of "The Wire", particularly seasons 4 and 5, will know what I'm talking about.

Are you an American? I ask because I always thought that Rockstar is not parodying America, but the image that America presents of itself to the outside world. For example, in Canada, we do not get Bill O'reiley on any of our networks, but we do get "The Daily Show," and other parody programs that show a slightly biased representation of just how crazy some of the pundits can actually be in your nation (I mean, there is some fucked up shit that gets said). We get shows like Big Brother, or Here Comes Honey Boo Boo, or the inaccurate, dumbed down, shit that the History Channel is presenting to you guys. Then there is the news that comes out about how the government is run down there, and it does not look flattering. Frankly, your nation is awful at showing the better sides of itself, and instead focuses on the crazy people blathering on about how 'awesome' your nation is in comparison to everyone else in the world.

So these jokes might seem bothersome to Americans, but they are still entertaining to the rest of the world because your nation has turned itself into a bigger joke since the Grand Theft Auto series began. I swear, every single year you guys find a way to outdo yourselves, and that is what foreigners like the Hauser brothers get exposed to.

Just curious.

Is that a girl dress like a guy on the right?

that is how people with a lower lifestyle look in Europe at least. Dont know about america though.

In the interest of being less mysterious, yes the person on the right is a woman, named Felicia "Snoop" Pearson, featured on the final two seasons of HBO's "The Wire", and is probably one of the better TV villains in the last decade. Here are some links for background:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snoop_(The_Wire)

I just thought I'd submit a pretty good example of a prominent, memorable, non-traditional female criminal in fiction.

I haven't read this thread at all because I don't completely hate myself, but after reading the thread title, the following thought occurred to me: I've been literally chased by thousands of cops over the course of the entire GTA series. And in all those thousands of police chases and shootouts, not once did I ever go "Oh hey, that one cop is a lady." I think that says a lot about Rockstar's worldview right there. Women patrolmen simply do not exist in this world.

I've seen girls act like guys when I was in High School, but damn that girl in that vid nailed that thugged out performance. Though now I am started to get abit interested in seeing a lead female for a GTA game, but like others said only if it fits with the context for Rockstar.

Ugh

IT'S TIME

@lively said:

While I liked Snoop on the Wire, she was a subordinate and not protagonist material. She also didn't offer any new perspective just because she was a woman. So while I wouldn't mind a female lead in a GTA game - I plan to play SR4 as a woman like I did the Third - it doesn't necessarily mean a new perspective. It'll generally be a different skin, different back story, maybe less womanizing but more slut-shaming, and the same type of missions if it had been a man.

The OP mentions the Gamasutra article, and the thing about that article is that the complaints should still be the same even if one of the three protagonists was a woman, otherwise, it would be sexist on the author's part.

Rockstar North can't write a good female character. It's best if they just stick to what they do well.

@lively: So you want a women that is basically a men in terms of behavior , speech, clothing and anything else? Ok i guess. Also what did these people talk about I could not understand one bit^^

Um, no. Not saying it never will be, but I don't see how its now suddenly the time to do so. When you write a character and a world, you have to make it all fit together and get quality product out of it. Guess what all the characters and worlds of Rockstar games are borrowed in some form or another from many sources, which Rockstar fine tunes to make it own story in its own world.

What ultra violent movies, books, etc can Rockstar use where the lead is a female character? Much more than that, even if they find some to go off of, Aren't there much more better stories to tell with male lead characters?

So, no its not time, not time at all.

Maybe if you said "LEAVE ROCKSTAR ALONE!" You might just successfully make me feel bad about defending creative freedom. Seriously though, stop throwing around the word "white knight" as an attempt to destabilize someone's argument as being one sided and unreasonable or fueled by blind fanboyism. I'm not looking to get laid by Rockstar here. I think I made some very valid points. I'm not even just defending Rockstar, I have mentioned Doctor Who and James Bond as other franchises where people have called for a female or black version of the character. Or how about when Andrew Garfield wanted a black and gay spider-man just because? I'm not against those ideas, but I'm against doing it for the sake of having change or thinking that skin color, gender, or sexual orientation will somehow drastically transform the character.

And yes I do believe people are trying to force the issue because that's all they've been doing since the 3 protagonists have been announced. Hey, I'm all for a female character as long as they aren't doing it solely as a response to the critics. It's the "you're either with us or against us" mentality people have that pisses me off. They might not hold that mentality, but it's exactly what it sounds like. I don't think Rockstar is against more equal representation in games, but because they aren't actively pursuing it, that somehow makes them seem like the bad guy.

Well that is one option, (and if you've seen the show you'll know that there's a little more to the character than that). It's kind of the polar opposite of the femme fatale sex-pot criminals seen in Bond films, or Jerry Springer-type basket case criminals. There's room for all of them, or even something in the middle. It all comes down to the writing and execution. I have faith that the Rockstar writers could pull it off if they tried.