The fuck you talking about BisonHero? "I'm not the president, not my problem" is the greatest response of all the responses. Not giving fucks saves lives! Also, the interview was pretty fucking awkward. I for one thank RPS for all the drama, and entertainment. It's fun watching you people argue about sexism and white privilege.

Come on. I won't argue if the issue is important or not, or if the response was moral or not. But a short interview about one specific game with a PR guy is clearly not the time or place to ask shit like this. That just wasted time off of the interview and made the interviewer come off as a passive-aggressive, bitter little person.

Art design from the WoW-age Blizzard has always been lazy and generic. The pandering sexism is just one of the many aspects for why it's shit.

That said, an interviewer should never try to lecture the person he interviews. That's not what an interview is for.

It is this kind of reaction that causes us to repeat the same redundant tropes of inequality. These responses are actually what is keeping this discussion going, since change won't come when we are hostile towards progression.

Click city bitch, click click city bitch.

Hooray for Dota 2's flat-chested heroines!

Are you talking about Broodmother?

Boobs are pretty cool you guys.

Oh, and no woman in real life has boobs over a B cup. Fact.

Well.... I mean, I guess I do feel rather uncomfortable now.

Kinda my own fault for clicking I guess

@canteu: I normally stay clear of this debate, but your answer is the dumbest possible answer. That's not the point and you know it.

@amyggen: I am totally contributing. Cmon, look at how progressive I'm being.

I was joking derp a herpedy derpenferp?!

Haha, Browder demolished them and their terrible bait questions.

Sad to see RPS has gone to shit over these months, we really didn't need another Kotaku.

@canteu: Ugh.

@amyggen: Alright Charlie Brown.

Blizzard guy is tired of this debate, and so am I. Go ahead and tell the artist that sculpted Kerrigan's ass that they're upholding the patriarchy in video-games by firstly not realistically modelling cellulite on the female body and secondly having the gall to show their character from the back sometimes, and he/she would give you a quizzical look. They are making what they want to make. There is no agenda to be had. Not every game has to hold a political stance on today's hot-button issues - some are just supposed to be fun, and the characters are made with that in mind.

There are plenty of examples of some form of sexism in video-games, along with all media, but generally the visuals is not where this point should be argued. Spend your energy on complaining about the lack of variety in playable protagonists or the stereotypical actions of both male and female characters in games that lead to genuinely dry and uninteresting experiences. Maybe even spend your energy complaining about something like the superfluousness and odd trend of the Heavy Rain and Beyond shower scenes if you really want to, but coming down on a fucking moba for their character designs for not even being inherently bad, but because you think a character could do with one less cup size, is lunacy.

The only thing wrong with the mentioned "Roller derby Nova" is that the design is absolutely abysmal. And no, that's not sexism at work. It's just ugly and uninspired.

Guys thinking about privilege is so hard.

CHECK YOUR ASSUMPTION PRIVILEGE

I actually kind of like Browders response. Serves the interviewer right for trying to bait him and create a controversial interview. I'm all for trying to create a better industry and all that, but suddenly cracking down on a guy who is taking time out of his day to give you an interview is unprofessional and shouldn't be the focus of the interview in the first place.

@cptbedlam said:

Yeah, agreed on both counts. Starcraft/Brood War and Diablo II/Lord of Destruction are pretty much the last time I thought they came up with cool designs (even if Starcraft was lifted super hard from Warhammer 40K).

Everything after that was kinda generic garbage.

Well Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 have a good design and that's due to their worlds feel fresh and exciting to visit, but warcraft has this whole blockiness where ever single section just needs to have a texture or detail on it. It's a lot like how Lara Croft looks blocky or that whole era still has that mindset of every little texture holds some detail. Especially that new WoW expansion trailer, the shapes look like a mess. I had to have a art friend come in and explain to me the updates on the models.

I wish I knew what comic books he mentioned in that interview, I can't think of any comics outside of Battlechasers and that was like 13 years ago and never got revived or mimicked.

well.... I finished the "reply" for the Blizzard interview. And yes, he had an well intention agenda, lord knows I have been trying to get more people to read comic book for over 20 years even during the heights of Rob Liefeld era. I feel sympathetic for the writer, but I don't think he is really in the right position or even asking the right questions.

Blizzard is just DOMINATING the MMO Market how about "with WoW's success how does your audience feel about player customization?" or "are just armor enough to satisfy your users?" Because blizzard is coming at a place where they are just taking the same data from WoW into their design process, if their audience were to say "You know I'd like characters who looked more like me" then they would react to it.

Maybe this is a case where their own data is actually been tracked and learned people don't want to create themselves and want only power fantasy. And that's something better to ask then just bum rushing them in a last minute question as PR is dragging him away. I know lots of women who play video games, and am surprised what they like. I don't understand why my sister loves God of War series and she doesn't like Animal Crossing which is something I do play.

Who knows, even if the interviewer had prepare himself better and able to control the attitude of the blizzard guy, maybe it might have gone better? Often times when people want to bring up race, sexism, transgender rights, rape, lack of choice, etc it's just poorly handled soap box rant in an age where people can't tell the youtuber Francis is a parody.

Sexism isn't going to end by questioning a video game producer about female character design. Sexism in this industry wont end that way either. There are larger issues within society and culture that cause these things, so poking at small examples of something much larger is pointless.

Here is the thing. If they want to make sexualized females its their goddamn right as the creators and artists do that. Sorry, content creators are in no way beholden to anyone. I'll sign on the fact that female gamers should be able to enjoy the hobby as much as anyone else but I absolutely hate this notion that creators are being shamed because they didn't tick their equal opportunity boxes during the design process.

The interviewer was trying to stir up shit and the PR person cutting the interview short was pretty much what RPS deserved to get at that point. The guy answered the question and he kept fishing for something more because the answer wasn't satisfactory.

Man, is this the same guy who did that awful, aggressive, disrespectful sack of horse-shit Hotline Miami 2 interview? Or is all of RPS just plastered with this pathetic click-bait type of interviewing? It's disgusting. It's like spitting in the face of the creators who are giving your ass their precious time.

I hope this interviewer gets punched in the face. I hope Buzz Aldrin punches that guy in the fucking teeth, because he's about on the same level as that pestering 'reporter.'

"You're the one who said you didn't send a message when you did. Callin' the kettle black if I ever thought-"

"Will you get away from me?"

"You're a coward, and a liar, and a-BMMPH"

This sort of nonsense is why RPS isn't in my bookmarks anymore. Even though I agree with most of their points about giant breasted character design being terrible they have gotten so dangerously smug and holier than thou about it it's unreadable.

I wish all of the white knights would go find someone actually in need of saving. I play games to have fun, not deal with pseudo-political garbage.

Meanwhile kid in Africa dying of malaria wonders, Whats with this journalist guy all worked up because some video game girls are wearing bikinis!?

Somehow, I can never agree with either side of this argument.

@artelinarose: @bisonhero: I dunno, maybe I'm a bit selective, but based on the series I've been reading (mostly Snyder's Batman and Vaughan's Saga), comics have had some pretty awesome female characters as of late. Starfire in Red Hood and the Outlaws was the only recent, overtly sexual portrayal of a female character that I can think of, and she was a great character. Sure, maybe there are some junky comics out there that try to sell on sex appeal, but that could be said of any medium. Honestly, I don't think that's ever going to go away. But, just because a character is dressed all sexy, doesn't mean they can't be a cool character.

All that aside, I think this was a really poorly done interview. Grayson had an agenda that Browder was obviously unaware of. It was like he was lured into some sort of clicking contraption with the talk of "mechanics" and "game design", things that obviously interested Browder, and then WOOSH. It felt quite a bit unfair on Grayson's part. Not saying he doesn't have the right intentions, but he is absolutely going about it the wrong way.

You know what...if it really bothers you just don't play the game instead of going on a personal vendetta to call video game developers perverts. Maybe you're the pervert, ever think about that?

Please note my use of the word YOU is in no way directed at any one individual in particular, but rather the universal you.

Haha, Browder not falling for that click bait crap.

@the_nubster: Buzz Aldrin really is the best.

I can't see how anybody would take the side of the interviewer in this case. He blindsided the Blizzard man with a question that's very difficult to answer about a very controversial topic at the end of a fluff interview. It's a Moba, with no narrative elements, starring preexisting characters that the man at this studio didn't even design, and the interviewer called him out on objectifying women because of the way these characters look. Seriously? What the fuck.

@the_nubster: No, that wasn't him, it was PC Gamers's Cara Ellison who did that article. But even then I believe she was in the room with someone like Patrick Klepek who said she didn't react anything special. It's escaping my head who that was, but it's someone well known and said "meh it wasn't that much controversy in the video."

I wouldn't call this click baiting, that's usually number scores, or the famous games radar style pages for top 20 blah blah. It's bad interview well before the sexism starts, and really I think there's a long line of people who are waiting on Blizzard for other things to complain about then their bad art. I think it would be more click baiting to just have an article why Blizzard isn't changing WoW into Free to Play.

@nonused: that really bothered me, what fucking comics is he talking about???? seriously what comics look like this maybe battle chasers but that trend DIED FAST, and it was clear they were stealing Joe Mad's art during WoW's pre-production. His reaction to say "it's like comic" is terrible like a cheap throw away excuse "don't blame me I had an abusive father" to lack responsibility for bad designs. In my opinion, they designed these simple human models to be outside large armor sets for low end PC. So they end up looking like tomb raider design models.

@crithon: That wasn't the article I was thinking of. That one feels more legitimate, and I can understand why she was upset by the content of the demo, even if I don't agree with her views on it. It was this interview that I was thinking of, done by one Nathan Grayson, our pig-headed wannabe feminist-sympathizer who shows that all he's capable of is using "Gotcha!" interview tactics and shoving his opinions down developers' throats. It's bad news for him if his signature interview style is making people want to choke him until his veins burst and he's blue in the face.

He's just so fucking rude and unprofessional, and not in a casual sense. Even his 'normal' questions are piss-poor, and he always relies on getting up in the interviewee's face about some issue that he doesn't have a real handle on. I actually hope he loses his job. He's a bad person. He's made the short list of people who make me upset to think about.

Ooooooooh, okay, I see, Yeah I see what you mean but I think it's an interesting interview because Dennis Wedin actually responds firmly and eloquently about what he is trying to do. Like the beginning it's all agressive, but near the end Grayson is calmed down and letting Wedin explain everything. Hotline Miami 2 is an interesting situation where complaining actually changed something, something that not even the consumer would have even known about until release. I agree I don't like this whole Bill OReilly style gamerz jurnolism, but I felt like a best example of putting someone on the spot would be like Ryan Davis onto Respawn when it came to "Cloud AI" on Titanfall. Of course this is like a couple beers in, and respawn didn't answer for a bit until they explained it better.

In the interest of thoroughness, I should point out that Browder did eventually post a response on the Blizzard HotS website about this, where he basically apologizes for his answers being kinda flippant, but otherwise gives the safe "we put great thought into characters designs, don't want to alienate anyone, we're listening to your feedback, blah blah blah" answer that he probably should've given in the first place.

http://www.heroesofthestorm.com/en-us/news/11751531/on-character-design

Both sides of this interview are pretty bad.

Why is everything in smaller font except for that one paragraph? Weird.

@audiobusting: Yeah that's odd, you know, I don't think of compelling characters when I think of MOBA.

I think Blizzard did what they could to save face. I mean it's not sexuality I'm bothered with, it's how it looks all cobbly and bubbley doesn't stand out from LOL. At least Valve made an effort to change shapes but the isometric perspective, numbers, particle effects and dumb user made items look like a mess. Blizzard can make interesting art in what people already have expected and Hots looks really no different from the rest.

1. You should see how NeoGAF is like to this development with these two...on second thought, it's the usual pandering to extremes and seeing how many people they can bait into saying stupid shit. Nothing new there!

2. Are you aware of this they posted? http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/25/take-a-bow-ms-male-character-explored/ They pulled an Anita Sarkeesian of their own with not allowing comments, but also stereotyped the responses into those that are far from what people are now asking about her.

3. Regardless of what was being discussed, RPS had no right to push their agenda on anyone. Period! Browder did what any sane person would've done, and he didn't have to apologize for anything (though doing so makes him the bigger man in the end). This whole debate has gotten crazy and never really gets anything accomplished other than giving the press another reason to run hit pieces because "oh, look what they want to read about now". All while insisting that the most extreme of the two possibilities are the only options that we can ever allow to exist!

No wonder people are sick of talking about it: the way people behave towards this is utterly deplorable!

Christ this conversation is still going? People are not asking for censorship(base on public response), just diversity. So you know, throw in a bunch of skimpily-dress, good looking dudes to equal things out. Humans objectify shit, its what we do, but at least objectify everyone equally is my opinion. You know maybe have Jim Reynold in a speedo or something and make his bulge like a horse.

I am only half joking.

@shinjin977 said:

Well, to be fair, it's still going because there was further development on the story that sparked this latest round via the apology.

And also to be fair, there's an issue that must be discussed about this style of questioning in game journalism that goes beyond the feminism debate.

When your games are played by millions of people, you absolutely are sending a message whether you want to or not. I'm amazed that that guy could even say that to be honest...

No you do not send messages all the time. Art does not need to be socially correct nor does it needs to send messages. Everything should be fair game here. If you do not like it. Don't watch or buy it. It is really easy. If you were forced to watch or play it then it is a totally different story.

@bisonhero: But why are we looking to the media to be a good role model? Why aren't we looking to real people in our lives to set the example? What roles to parents and community leaders play in setting a good example?

When you are dealing with a global audience, the odds that you are going to offend someone increase exponentially. There are so many cultural differences, heck, differences in one small community in the middle of nowhere and the mainstream society. Developers take their vision, no matter how warped and twisted it can look to us, and put it on display. That is their role; make stuff. Consumers have to make the decision on whether the product is something they support or not. Are they passing the buck or just being themselves?

I would want to frame what you said, it's spot on perfect

But I mean we are in this odd situation where we can have rants on the web and it will connect with some not all creators. And it can be innovative like for example the whole "We want a black Spiderman" and then Marvel replied and creating Miles Morales Ultimate Spiderman and has been a lot of fun to read.

That is something totally different though. they wanted one but they did not accuse people of being racist in this case just because there are mostly only white superheroes. With this discussion everything sexualized is now also being accused of being sexist and wrong. And if you support this you are a terrible person. It is really annoying and not the way to have a proper discussion about these things at all.

No dude, I'm making a comparison. I'm talking about how we can have personal soap boxes for our own personal opinions. Some people do it poorly and some people do it well and back up what they are saying. That's not everyone.

Miles Morales Spiderman is different because it didn't effect production of a film, it produced a comic book instead which isn't selling that well and is being canceled this month. And it's an interesting effect of actually having a creator who's willing to listen and take a risk.

Again I'm not comparing this, because it's not even a good communication between RPS and Blizzard, it's a bad press junket with tossed in questions while PR guy is waving wrap it up.