This was an issue I had back at launch, across the many times I've replayed and now as I wait for PP next week - I just can't seem to do a flawless run on this, there's always someone who pops into view and insta-spots me, alerting THE ENTIRE BASE in a second if I miss a headshot.

All the reviews for PP are stating it's the best MGS yet gameplay-wise, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to actually play it well. I mark all the targets, move super slow, but like I say nearly every time I just the 'FRING!' alert as someone completely out my sight (behind me) sees me and I can't react through mid-animation, or I miss when I try.

How have you guys found adjusting to the new style from launch to now? I find the right trigger/CQC variation stuff a little muddy as well, with like how much you press the stick forward whilst kinda wailing on the trigger to pull things off.

I also miss knocking on walls to draw dudes towards you, now I kinda peek out, trigger their 'Hmm who's that?!" response, then hope for the best when trying to CQC in super-slo-mo (which nearly always fails as Reflex Mode seems to favour guns).

@shalashaskauk666: Some of the mechanics themselves in TPP are expanded upon as you have a way to make noise and attract a guard also yes having spent a good solid week and around 40 hours with the controls I feel pretty damn confident. One thing though is you'll soon realize the time of day is a huge factor in stealth this time around. Guard's seeing range in a mid-day/clear skies weather is REALLY REALLY far. Especially on Hard mode.

You just gotta keep practicing. Look at a trophy guide and just set out to get as many trophies as you can before launch of TPP in process you'll end up learning a lot of skills. (And also pick up several useful PoW's that will transfer to TPP)

@shalashaskauk666: I also really miss being able to knock on walls. Also being able to quick throw a magazine over a chest high wall I'm hiding behind. It says there's a quick throw but it doesn't seem to work if you're pressed up against something. So you risk being spotted while trying to throw one to distract a guard.

Yesterday I was trying the anti-air one. I ended up getting into a truck and somehow a guy in a watch tower which was behind me, noticed me driving by - like he must of seen me in the side mirror or something.

Not so much on the main mission because I've played it so much that I know where everyone is, but for the side-ops I will often be spotted because I'm rushing to get a good rank. If I'm taking my time and not caring about the rank, rather playing it like I imagine the real Big Boss would go about it then it's rare that I'll get spotted. It's kinda dependent on my mindset more than anything else. If I try not to be detected then I usually won't be, but if I'm just playing semi-casually then I almost expect something bad to happen and just react to it when it does. I don't blame the game for me getting caught, it always feels like something I could have avoided had I been a little more careful.

Concerning the last thing you brought up, you can shoot a guy in the leg to delay his instant-alert, allowing you those extra couple of seconds to get into CQC range. You can also use empty clips to make them look the other way and run up on them, and TPP will have a knock variant where Boss makes a noise with his arm.

If you haven't got eyes on round a corner or past an obstruction, try tossing a magazine out in the open to make guards you can't see move.

Knocking on walls is back in The Phantom Pain (Well, sort of. For some reason they gave it a high-tech makeover and it now uses your stupid bionic hand, but it's function is the same)

Also, rushing for a good rank isn't a good idea. Avoiding being spotted is worth way more points than a slightly longer playtime will cost you.

Have you tried crouching? Even in the day time guards only get curious when I crouch walk past them (obviously not at point blank range), I haven't had any issues with being spotted. If you stand up then yeah for sure you'll get spotted instantly. Plus the slow mo is so generous that if you do get spotted just calmly line up a headshot and one tap to kill. Even if reflex mode ends the base won't go immediately on alert as the guard needs to get his radio out, so you have time to deal with him after that too.

Also the thing I had to realise to get CQC to work flawlessly every time is make sure you HOLD RT and don't just press it. I will often intentionally let a guy see me for a second, then go hide round a corner pressed up against the wall, and wait for him to walk up to it. It comes up with the RT prompt and you just press and hold it and it will automatically grab him and drag him behind the wall - no reflex mode activated.

If you're trying to grab dudes in slow mo I can only imagine you're sprinting at them to hope to catch them quickly and triggering reflex.

@shalashaskauk666: Aside from giving you a complete guide, all I can say is crawling is a Godsend. Even on hard, situations in which I was sure I'd be spotted simply became nervewracking "almost spotted with a flashlight" moments when crawling. The difference in stealth between crawling and crouch-walking is exponentially greater than crouch-walking and jogging, seriously. Crawl. Crawl whenever you're unsure. And even sometimes when you are.

Also, I'm not sure if this applies to you, but don't go looking for encounters. I assume when you say you tag everyone, it's for simply recon/keepin' an eye on 'em. But just in case: I've found I've been spotted more times when taking out some guy who will NEVER be a factor on my run than any other time. Pick a route, such as 'watchtower beside storage; east camp; AA gun; admin; Paz rescue' or whichever you feel comfortable with and stick with it. Believe me, it ain't gonna come in one try. Remember patrol patterns while trying again and again and keep in mind it is very likely only one or two of the guards you THINK will be a problem actually will. Perfect your route and think of every time when you take a guard out silently and move forward as a victory. For the most part, you don't need to worry about moving bodies, besides maybe some admin building dudes. Myself, I like rescuing Chico first, but the point is: if you can rescue Chico flawlessly, you're more than half done, because of the surprise waiting just past the nearby checkpoint post. After that, it's a matter of consistently replicating Chico's extract and working on Paz's. Paz is quite a bit harder, but I'll say that after dozens of attempts to do it ONE way (the way Drew did it in MG Scanlon), I found another way that worked after two tries. Just because way X is highly guarded and challenging, it doesn't mean way Y will be, too.

As a final hint, if you don't already know: the natural embankment at the very beginning that blocks the wooden watchtower's view of you about halfway between you and it, when the guards are chatting curiously about XOF? You can climb that and skirt around the tower and the guards completely for a quicker, less frustrating start. Is great if you're going to be restarting again and again... And again, like I did.

Oh, yes. And CRAWL!

It took a bit to get used to the new systems, I also felt like I was always getting caught. Eventually, I figured out how far they can see just by trial and error. If you're just playing on normal mode, crawl. Dudes will point their flashlights at you all day long and never see you if you're crawling, provided you aren't on top of them. Crouching works if you're at a decent distance, but if you get anywhere near them or are on hard mode, forget it. On hard mode guys can spot you across the map if you aren't at least crouching.

Honestly, the best way I learned to get good at this game was by example. I would do each mission myself and then watch someone else S-rank it and then replicate that. It taught me a lot about what guards can see and their limits as well.

It took a little more getting used to than the classics, but once I did I honestly feel like I can get right up on people with way more confidence than some of the older games.

I think I can relate. I had trouble when I first picked up Ground Zeroes because I was rushing through it. I wasn't very settled-very busy but still trying to play video games it reflected poorly in my gaming.

Without a doubt my first experience with GZ was tainted because I knew I didn't have enough time to play the game like I needed to but still wanted to. And of course the shortness of it left me bitter so I wasn't too inclined to make time for it.

But when Sony put out GZ for free, I was in a completely different time, very settled and with extra time to spare. After I got past the expectations that I would master sneak past every one on the first go I chilled and played more in character with Big Boss.

The only tip is to be very methodical do what you came to do with who you came to do it to, and leave. If you want to explore then explore just prepare yourself for alerts. Patience comes in the form of crawling and sitting in the same spot for five minutes trying to see if that guard comes back.

Sometimes the best play throughs are when you are trying to burn several hours and are just playing for the sake of playing. I had every guard on the base surrendered and on the ground simply because I had 3 hours to kill as I waited for my significant other to land from a flight.

I had one run the other day where i almost S ranked the mission, while saving all prisoners AND getting all XOF tags.....until i got to about the last one and couldn't find it and randomly got spotted after knocking out the same guys over and over for an hour. After that i said fuck it and started running around like crazy just to get the badges, and haven't had a good play through like that since. smh.

I hope stealth gives you more options in the next game, but the open world might just make for good rambo shit.

This is probably a dumb obvious thing but I've only been spotted instantly from a distance when moving. Ordinarily I'll just duck but if a guy is way behind me I don't notice that he notices me and I keep moving.

I was worried about the stealth being too hard but after re-watching old PP trailers I realized theres way more to the areas (horse stealth, truck stealth, catwalks etc).

You aren't sprinting right? Sprinting makes you visible from super far away, and you should never do it unless you feel absolutely confident nobody is around. You should be crouch-walking about 90% of the time, and if somebody notices but doesn't spot you if you immediately start crawling you can get away to somewhere to hide.

The stealth mechanics in Ground Zeroes mostly just take time to understand and internalize, if you haven't figured them out by the end of Ground Zeroes you'll probably pick everything up over the course of Phantom Pain.

Some tips I have is keep spotting and if you are gonna carry a gun rather than stealthing around with the tranq. keep the m4 equipped. If you get spotted it's easier to kill the guard then tranq. them and hoping they go to sleep before the slo-mo mode is out.

Other then that I dig the new combat just makes you more aware of the surrounding combining it with controls that fit with controls of other recent games.

I'm guessing you might be spotted by guards you have already knocked out before that wakes up as well. A good way to deal with that is to have them on gunpoint and ask them to lie down. If you tranq them or knock them unconcious, just bring them to a safe spot, kick them and keep you gun aimed at them. They will stay on the ground until your mission ends. Unless spotted by another guard, or when the base goes on alert.

I really like how they have done stealth in this one. Looking forward to TPP!

I really didn't get spotted, especially on normal (where I find guards are mostly blind, versus hard where they all have hawk vision). I might not be a typical case as I've 100%ed GZ so maybe this breed of stealth just clicked with me, though.

If you do a CQC punch combo, you flatten guys for something like 30 minutes, versus the two and a half minutes of a tranq shot on hard. Give that a try if you find that enemies you thought you neutralized wake back up on you.

Other than that, take your time and use empty magazines as a substitute for the knock.

Try holding enemies up. They stay down forever, unless the base goes into full alert (as in, someone actually saw you and yelled for help) or someone comes and frees them. You can get the entire base down on the ground one at a time and they won't keep getting back up.

The stealth in TPP will have many more options, including a bunch of tools you can develop, judging from the gameplay demos so far and Peace Walker. Also, many things have been tweaked and improved since GZ. I think it should be way better.

I kinda found my limited experience with GZ to be the opposite. Stealth was easy-mode. Like, oh hey I just get behind 5 guys, hit 2 buttons, and chico is saved..no issue. Having already seen the cut-scenes I Just ended up seeing if the combat was just as easy..and yeah it is, except I suck at aiming so ran out of ammo, (and eh, the respawn rate is such getting from one group of downed foes to loot to the time the next spawn sees you=not enough time to re-arm.

That said like. Its not hard. Spot, sneak, hit trigger, pick option to kill, repeat endlessly until you've gotten everyone.

I desperately look forward the point in the full game where I get my scoped, silenced sniper rifle and can get the same experience I always end up considering the 'cap' of my Fall out 3/NV runs. Bodies drop, people scramble, no idea what to do. Won't be as much gore in this maybe but eh, its still satifying as all hell to go "Yup, I'm stealthy" but murdering the whole base from a safe distance..."

Which means i guess if there is some feature to let me play as other characters to replay missions/areas in Phantom pain, I'm gonna be playing a hell of a lot of quiet for reasons other then what people assume.

And now, back to fall out NV to find that over-powered snipe rifle again, where ever the mods I've got on have stashed it this time.