Like many video game fans, I picked up Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor and I've been having a bunch of fun playing it this week. (I didn't start it the week it was released because of Forza Horizon 2)

After spending quite a bit of time playing ME:SoM, I really hope that other game makers rip it off (as the title suggests). There's a lot about the Nemesis system to praise and I'm sure you've all read much of it like I have over the past couple of weeks.

The real point of this though, is to share something I was talking about in passing with some friends. What I'd love to see happen is the makers of Star Wars games to look at ME:SoM and steal their little hearts out. The entire time I've been playing it, I can't help but wish it was a game based on a Force wielder.

As I imagine it, a Shadow of Star Wars type game would need to make only a few changes. Most of what works in Mordor would work well with only tiny tweaks to accommodate the license. Instead of a Wraith, you'd have to be in Force purgatory. Instead of Orcs, you'd need to be fighting Bounty Hunters. You could be specific even. Say you were fighting a colony of Mandalorians for instance. That way the Nemesis (NemeSith?) system could have the same kind of naming conventions as ME:SoM. In that you have a list of names and titles and the random generator throws a character together from the various tables or whatever they're doing behind the scenes to give the Orcs such interesting personalities in the game. They could have that unique Mandalorian armor basic style and as the action figures show it would be easy to come up with nearly infinite varieties.

They can even keep the dynamic where a fallen foe regularly comes back after defeat. Make the fights as brutal as you like, and after a defeat they can come back with robotic augmentations, scarred armor, blaster scoring, etc. And with the lesser enemies a lightsaber lends itself to the same kind of brutal combat we see in ME:SoM as well.

The one thing that would need to be changed or added would be some kind of morality system. Usually the binary Good/Evil morality systems are silly because humans are not binary creatures. We exist in the gray. But with the Jedi/Sith it works fine since that's kind of the whole point of the Light/Dark dichotomy. However they decide to implement the system, it should play out in the upgrade screens where you pick your skills. Characters should be similar to Cole from inFamous. With skill sets that favor aggressive saber moves and Lightning for Dark characters, and Stealth and more Force Push/Pull/Grab style maneuvers for the Light. Obviously Light side Jedi shouldn't be shooting Force Lighting and using Force Choke. Although a Kyle Katarn or Starkiller style character would be a must. Someone you could build a story around but also give the player the agency to travel either path but still keep the narrative flowing.

Anyway, this has just been an idea that's been kicking around my head while playing over the past week. I guess we all have our "dream games" we wish were real. So what are some of yours? And if they made a Shadow of Coruscant (or whatever) like I describe here, do you think it would be fun? In this dream scenario lets pretend that EA won't be developing it so we can avoid any fear that comes from them holding the Star Wars license for the purposes of this discussion. :)

Next Elder Scrolls game.

BOOM.

I feel the same. Devs, please ape the hell out of this.

It will be, although it might take a couple years to start showing up.

I like the Star Wars idea. I mean, it could maybe even work with other dichotomies besides bounty hunters.

I also think Star Trek, Mass Effect, or historical eras would work. I agree with you, OP. I hope more devs rip it off.

My current ambition is that maybe, just maybe,Rocksteady delayed Arkham Knight to try and work the Nemesis system into the Arkham Knight game. I know it's too close to add that big a feature, but I have to have dreams!

The nemesis system could make many games better. However, I personally could do with out the batman combat in another game for the rest of time.

That's interesting.

Could I persuade you to elaborate? I'm a pretty big fan of the Arkham style combat and most of the games who've aped it, at least that I've tried, have been pretty decent.

What is it about that style of combat that you don't enjoy?

Games you want to see the Nemesis system applied to

Everything about it? But honestly I'm really not sure if its one thing about it. And I think maybe most of it is because of the Arkham games themselves, maybe. I loathed those games. I never played more than a couple hours of the first two and that was that for those. This is the first game with this combat that I have ever played more than a few hours. And its all because of the nemesis system. The combat drove me nuts and I avoided it at all costs. Doing stealth on everything. Only engaging in the combat when the game required me to. And back to Arkham real fast. I felt like a terrible batman because of my inability to use the combat. So that made me hate the game right away. I felt like a crappy batman due to how the combat style made me feel.

I don't like button prompt counter system. It annoys me for some reason. For counters or dodges. It distracts me, and I tend to mess up. I hate combo stringed combat in general. Where you have to keep a counter going. This usually makes me stop playing a game instantly. Regardless if its this style or something else. I feel like I am being pressured into getting that number high enough to make the combat more enjoyable. And that whole thing just ends up ruining the enjoyment for me. I hate that when fighting a mob you can be attacked by more than one person at a time, and that breaks your combo. That feels very stressful. Because usually the cool stuff is hidden being number walls. (at least in this game those were low numbers) You have to get to X before you can do Y. I just prefer older styled, simpler action combat. Ones that are more forgiving. I am also an older game. I am starting to have terrible reflexes. So for things like this it stands out to me. Which also makes me get frustrated, and lowers the enjoyment. I find the older I get the more I am gravitating to action games like Dark Souls or Dragons Dogma. That style of combat feels more rewarding to me. And never frustrates me. I feel competent in that style. And I am going back to more adventure and turn based or strategy games also. Pretty much less action. More indie games I guess. The older I get the more I want a good story and to have fun. I don't care about the action or how good I am at a game.

Hmm. Probably more than you bargained for in a reply. I was just going to say, because I don't. But then I actually thought about it. So, ya. Its also late so my thoughts might be all over the place and seem crazy.

Actually that's just about exactly what I wanted. I asked because I was genuinely curious.

I'm an older gamer too (42 if you care), so I'm often interested in what makes folks like (or dislike) a game or mechanic. Especially one that I really like.

For me, I think the combat system in Arkham is what makes the games great. Don't get me wrong, they would be really good with the stealth and story alone, but the combat takes it to another level for me. The combo system, and learning to use it, was among the great gaming moments for me of the last gen in fact. Jumping into a whole room full of thugs and taking them to school was always exciting. I still load up Arkham City from time to time just to run a couple of the combat rooms and see if I can still land a score or get my combo over 100 anymore.

One of my close friends is more in your camp. He never got past the first game because he just couldn't get the hang of doing well in the combat portions of the game and (especially the first one) Asylum relied so heavily on the Freeflow Combat for many of the bigger set pieces. When Arkham City came along, he gave me an amusing quote: He said "I don't see how there could be a sequel, Batman died in Arkham Asylum".

Naturally, him being my friend, I had to ridicule him mercilessly. As he would have done were our roles reversed (and has on MANY occasions).

Anyway, thanks for the reply.

I wouldn't mind them ripping of or tweaking the nemesis system... I hope not everyone will start doing batman combat....

Batman combat gets done too much, but its better than the God of War combat it replaced :V

Nemesis system is the new Quick-Time Event.

Be careful what you wish for...

I think the nemesis system in a game like Fallout 4 would be a match made in heaven. A game were random ambushes by raiders or thieves would be persistent enough that those that survived would return latter and reference to past encounters, or me killing the leader of a faction would dynamically result in said faction spiraling into chaos, and their base being destroyed by the time I got there... I really liked how Three Dog and the newscaster in Mass Effect would reference to some of my choices and past adventures; but I wish they would put more attention to it and make it more granular.

About the combat, I am with people that feel its being overdone. I don't mind it in Batman, because it translates in the flow the same way I imagined Batman would be in combat: lots of counters, lots of martial arts with focus on submission moves (except for the part where he start jumping around). I think it also works great in kung fu settings like Sleeping Dogs... but not everyone has to move like that. The problem with that combat is that imprints a certain flow, one which doesn't works in every setting.

Did anyone ever like Quick-Time Events?

Crazy!

Although i'll admit that the god of war combat is done way better in other games... which makes it weird why people call it god of war combat.

I guess its just the first place I remember seeing it, really.

Hell yeah a Star Wars game! Replace sword with lightsaber, wraith magic with space magic. Sold.

People still rave about Shenmue...

I didn't find the Nemesis system nearly as cool as everyone made it out to be, but I guess if they expanded on it and stuff maybe it could be awesome, I dunno. That's about all I'd be fine with games ripping off from this game though. It was a painfully plain collect-a-thon open world game, we have enough of those nowadays as it is, thanks to Ubisoft. Really curious what people will think about the last-gen version, since that doesn't have the Nemesis system in it.

Fool me once...

I'll be sad to see the first game that lifts this idea and flops on the execution. It doesn't seem like it would be nearly as successful if Monolith hadn't gone to the lengths they had in regards to the variety of dialogue and unique appearances for the Uruks.

@zzombie13: Kotaku agrees.

The original poster who said that there needs to be a Star Wars game like this is correct, especially if you play as either a Jedi or an up-and-coming Sith trying to knock off the chain of Sith command. That fits right over the system here where Orcs try to challenge other Orcs for supremacy and to move up the ladder.

Re: SoM, this game badly needs a sequel to expand on what the first game was like. A more expansive map and tighter combat (the timing to counter strikes is so broad that it's really, really easy) are the first places to start. I also think that the actual main missions in the game need quite a bit more variety. However, the combat is solid and the Nemesis system opens up some interesting ideas, especially as devs learn how to use the power of new consoles for AI.

I could also be hilarious :)

But yeah your right, an incredible team of artists really helped make this thing sing.

I guarantee you will regret saying that when it ends up in EVERYTHING.

It's a cool idea, but I'm already kind of over it.

I don't usually read Kotaku, but for once they and I are in complete agreement. :)

Well that is a real concern. As always, you can imagine it a lot easier than you can build it.

In this fictional dream game I'm imagining, it would be full of different aliens, armors, and just dozens upon dozens of different looks for the enemies. Returning enemies that you've beaten before would have dismemberments from your past battle replaced with cybernetic enhancements. Armor that was destroyed could have welds and bolts where they tried to repair it. Helmets with Lightsaber burns in cool places. And if they went with Sith as enemies, there could be all kinds of Sith warrior tattoos for your foes to adorn themselves with. They could even add more as they climb rank.

Of course with everything, some will grab on to the opportunity and try to do well or even surpass the original while others will half ass it and phone it in. But the point isn't really lifting just the Nemesis, it's lifting the idea to have the persistent hierarchy of opponents mixed with some form of well-realized combat to fight them in an open world. ME:SoM has lifted most of it's elements and put it together in a really interesting way. That's kinda what I was getting at when I said I hope it gets ripped off. I want more games that put together a lot of good elements in an interesting way. The Nemesis System can be a good place to start, and it's what makes Mordor stand out from the crowd. But what makes the whole package work is the part they invented coupled with the parts they ripped off, put together in a melange of mechanics that managed to come together nicely.

That and I just really want a new fun Star Wars game. It's been over 6 years since I had a Star Wars game I enjoyed and it's sequel was kinda crap (I'm talking about Force Unleashed in case it's not obvious).

I know he already answered, but I would like to elaborate. I feel confined using the combat system. Let me explain.

In the Batman games it made sense. Batman is a martial arts dude, and he restricts himself as he feels he cannot take a life. The combat is grounded in the game's fiction and as a result it doesn't feel out of place. It made sense because crowd control is something Batman would definitely use often. The combat didn't get old as quick, because there were a few gadgets that allowed you to take control of the situation in varied ways.

Now, in Mordor, I don't think the combat makes sense. I feel confined, yet I want to let loose. With the orc insults, the penalty for dying, the sheer brutality of the combat, and more - I just want to beat the crap out of someone. I want to be able to take enemies down without waiting for the inevitable counter prompt looming over me. Once you dissect the combat system down to its core, you undeniably begin to see the pattern, and there is less room to alter the formula than there was in the Batman games. I guess that's just it. It feels formulaic.

I can see that. Good points. :)

Did you play the Captain America: Super Soldier movie tie-in game? It also used a scaled back version of the Arkham style freeflow style combat.

It was very fun, but like you said about Mordor it felt a bit confining. Where Batman got lots of moves and gadgets and multiple finishing maneuvers to pull off, Cap felt much less fleshed out. It was still fun, but it felt almost like it was more fun than it had a right to be. It was just very satisfying to use that shield to clobber HYDRA agents. It made such a great "BONGGGG!!!" sound effect when you landed a good shield strike.

I'd rather more developer be like Monolith and put effort in providing something different.

Having the nemesis system in everything will just kill it.

Shoving one aspect into other games was never the point of what I was saying though. It's one interesting part of an otherwise pretty decent game. The point was that I hope people expand on it while doing their own thing as well. (Preferably in a Star Wars setting, but that is just my personal taste. )

Haha! I definitely love me a good BONGGGG!!! sound effect! I've always wanted to try that game out. I'll give it a shot.

Something like the Nemesis system needs to be in a fucking spy game. Like Alpha Protocol 2 or something. Less magic, and more taking pictures of people doing bad shit to turn them, recruiting assets, sending them on missions, all that shit.

Could also be a police procedural, like the Wire or whatever. Either way, it'd be fun to see it applied to more real world scenarios. Slightly more real world, at any rate.

Essentially I want the in-game representation to look like this:

I certainly hope game developers continue to create unique and hand crafted scenarios that can really resonate with players rather than relying on a random NPC generator. I would rather play a game where an NPC has a real backstory that ties into the overarching plot and not a simple database call-back to how they killed you with a sprinkling of flavor text.

The nemesis system is really good idea to start with but I would like it to be in RPGs more so then any other games genres.

Yeah, I can't wait for this feature to begin showing up in other open world games. I just hope whoever decides to try out this system does as good a job recreating it as Monolith did recreating the Batman combat.