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    OnLive was a cloud gaming service offering video game streaming through a user's computer, smartphone, or TV.

    OnLive - Get the Facts

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    Saieno

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    Edited By Saieno

    So there seems to be a lot of out-dated information, misconceptions, and poorly made assumptions about OnLive. 
     
    First-off everyone seems to think I'm a corporate plant, marketing shill, or some under-cover agency trying to market OnLive. First off, I love technology and I'm very excited about OnLive, I just can't stand it when people post out-dated information or assumptions as fact. I've written reviews for Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Terminator Salvation, AION: Tower of Eternity, Runes of Magic, and Perfect World International, two of which became video reviews (AION and Perfect World). I'm a Linux user mostly, and I've done a couple videos and blog posts on that as well. I also run a Final Fantasy XIV podcast called Lodestone Radio, but after a situation with Creative Labs and a sound card my computer is currently fried. But no, I must be some marketing plant because nothing about OnLive can be good! 
       
    After the November 17th announcement of the OnLive Micro-Console the user base for OnLive skyrocketed. In that week since the announcement, there have been more users than the entire history of OnLive...and it's still growing. They give promotions and discounts all the time, and the entire company and service is still in its infancy. Hell the main component for the entire service, the Micro-Console, isn't even out yet! The service is completely free (no monthly fees), you never have to upgrade your hardware, games and add-ons purchased load instantly and kept forever, theres no installing or waiting for downloads, many games on OnLive are half the price of stores, new releases are usually $10-$20 below stores, they have low-cost options to rent games for 3 to 5 days, and they constantly have promotions such as 75% off and game giveaways.

    Oh but that doesn't matter right? Cause the service sucks, it needs a crazy amazing internet connection, if the company goes under you can't keep the games, theres lag, the video looks shitty, theres no games, its too expensive, etc etc. That's all I hear anytime someone has something to say about OnLive, and I'm going to clear-up every single one right now.  
     

    1. The service sucks. 


    Most likely you've tried the service back in June and haven't looked again, are outside of USA or Canada and are attempting to play, or you've never tried the service because you're scared of change and need to justify the money you've put into your PC and/or Consoles.
      
    The OnLive service does exactly what it says it does. You can play any game on the service and try it for yourself free! www.onlive.com you can go right now and just download it, try it out, you'll be amazed if you stop for a moment and realize its not running on your computer at all. There are such great community features, such as the messaging, spectating, brag clips, and the zero latency multiplayer.

    Unlike other games you play online where you can see players jittering around on the screen, people using hacks and exploits, and other latency related issues, OnLive is completely devoid of these things. OnLive is basically run like a giant LAN network, so when you're spectating someone or playing a multiplayer game with them, there is no latency/lag/pause/jitter. It is instantaneous. What they see is EXACTLY what you see, and it's amazing.


    2. It needs a crazy amazing internet connection


    When people see or hear "FIVE MEGABIT CONNECTION" they turn the other way and can't fathom an internet connection so glorious and amazing as 5MB/s. But does MB equal Megabit? No, it doesn't. MB and Mb are two very different things, MB is known as Megabyte and Mb is known as Megabit. So what are the differences? Well Megabyte (or MB) is usually a measurement of size, you can see it when looking over files on your computer. Files like music which are 3MB, or movies which are 600MB, are all every day normal things and we don't question it.

    However, Megabit (or Mb) is not the same thing, in fact its much LOWER than MB. This is usually a measurment of internet speed, but only really used in the marketing of the internet service. Why would they use Mb over MB though when marketing a connection? Well 1MB is equal to 8Mb, and initially that 8 looks bigger than that 1 even though they mean the same thing. One Megabyte = Eight Megabit, which can be confusing but its true and thats just how things are.

    So lets go back to OnLive which requires at maximum a connection of 5Mb/s. Well that's not bad at all! I basically need a download speed of 0.610MB/s, or more commonly seen as 625KB/s. What exactly is the difference between 5Mb and 5MB, and why does it matter? If I say you're getting a 5Mb connection, majority of the population instantly assumes you will be downloading at 5MB a second. However, to download 5 Megabytes would take you around a minute on a 5 Megabit connection.

    What's better is the micro-console takes even less bandwidth than your PC or Mac does. Depending on your TV size you'll require a different amount of bandwidth. 52" is 5Mb/s, 42" is 4Mb/s, 32" is 3Mb/s etc. So it's safe to assume that if you have a 22" TV that you'll need 2Mb/s, that's the idea anyway.

    And for those waiting to shout about bandwidth caps, OnLive has partnered with many ISPs to not only re-route your connection to give you the best experience, but if rumors are true then OnLive doesn't affect your bandwidth cap. And even if it did, Comcast for example has a 250GB bandwidth cap which would give you 150 to 300 hours of gameplay a month. So no, you don't need some amazing internet connection.


    3. If the company goes under you can't keep the games


    This is somewhat of an odd statement, especially from people who just blindly attack the service without understanding it at all. First off, I don't think the games will be lost if the company goes under, since they are just sitting in a database somewhere which can be scaled to any size. Secondly, the company would only go under if you aren't buy or renting games, and if you aren't doing that anyway then you wouldn't have any games to keep regardless.

    Basically its a moot point, especially since they just seem to be getting bigger and bigger which is strange for a 'failing' company.
     

    4. Theres lag


    If there's lag its not because of OnLive thats for sure. Your internet is the issue at that point, and speaks more to the service of your ISP rather than the service of OnLive. Oh, you're saying the game itself is lagging? Again, not the fault of OnLive. Just Cause 2 is the only game on the service that runs at a sluggish pace, but this is because its running the PC version of the software. I ran Just Cause 2 on my PC as well, and it had that same sluggish feel as it did in OnLive. The PS3 version didn't have this issue though, so I would only assume that the Just Cause 2 engine isn't very optimized for PC hardware.


    5. The video looks shitty


    The current output for OnLive on PC and Mac is 1280x720, which is more commonly referred to as 720p. They are releasing 1080p output once the micro-console arrives, but I'll just use the current 720p resolution for this arguement. When you play OnLive on a monitor with the resolution at 1920x1080, which is more commonly referred to as 1080p, you are scaling the image which causes blurring. There are two video streams that OnLive uses while a game is being played. One is the media stream, which is used when spectating someone or when a brag clip is taken. This stream is usually lower in quality, more akin to a YouTube video. The second stream is the gaming stream, which is used when you're actually playing a game. The gaming stream is optimized for playing the game and looks crisp and clear. Of course you may see some compression if you look for it or take a screenshot, but OnLive is made to look great in motion and not in a still frame.


    6. Theres no games


    Of course the game selection is limited, the console isn't even out yet. However, they have 35 games right now and hope to have 50 games total before the end of the year. Not to mention another 100 games are currently in the pipeline for release in 2011, many of which are day-in-date with the console releases as well.

    Still, for a new console launch it has more games than Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 launched with. Xbox 360 launched with 18 titles, six of which were exclusive to the system. PlayStation 3 launched with 15 titles, six of which were exclusive to the system. OnLive has 35 games right at this moment, and may get more on the December 2nd launch of the micro-console, however that is more than Xbox 360 and PS3 had combined. Of course there are no exclusive titles yet, but given time I'm sure we'll see some interesting software come to OnLive.


    7. Its too expensive


    The Micro-Console pre-order announcement was made on the 17th, stating it costs $99 (keep in mind it never has to be upgraded). What do you get with this $99? Well you get the micro-console itself (never has to be upgraded), an extremely high-quality wireless controller, HDMI Cable, Ethernet Cable, and a Promo Code good for any game on the service. The OnLive controller has been praised by reviewers, many stating that its higher quality than first party controllers for Xbox 360 and PS3. Controllers for Xbox 360 and PS3 are usually $50, so lets assume that the controller is half the package price. The Promo Code is worth $50 as well, so there's your $99 right there. Basically you get the Console, HDMI Cable, and Ethernet cable all for free, its one of the best deals out there.

    When the Xbox 360 launched it was between $299 and $399, and curently sells between $299 and $399. When the PlayStation 3 launched it was between $499 and $599, and currently sells between $299 and $399. Usually these do not come with a game, and if they do you don't have a choice over what game it is. All you get is the system, component cables (so if you have an HDMI TV you need to buy it seperately), power cable and a controller. If you're just looking to play games and enjoy them with your friends, $99 is a much smaller pill to swallow.


    8. If the internet goes down you can't play games.


     Well thats true, but just like on Xbox 360 or PS3 if your internet is down you won't be playing games online. Sure you could play a single-player game, but gaming with others is generally more fun, even if they are just watching you play like on OnLive. Yes you could have your friends come over and play games with you, but you could also go over to your friends house and play OnLive there.


    9. I already have a Xbox 360/PS3, OnLive is pointless...


    Sure it might be pointless for you right now, but wait until the next generation consoles come out. OnLive will be running those next-gen games just as well as Xbox 720 or PS4 without any other fees. When your 360 red rings or your PS3 yellow lights you want to be sitting there for weeks waiting for it to come back from being repaired? Or even worse, your console is out of warrenty so not you have to pay even MORE to get it back. $99 or a basic computer and you can be on your games playing online.


    10. I already have a PC, OnLive is pointless...


    Of course we have the PC gamers who like their expensive parts, piracy, and being able to modify the games as they see it. That's all fine and dandy, but because you paid $800 to $1,500 for a computer to do all of that doesn't make the OnLive service or its console any less impressive or useful. OnLive supports user add-ons which we'll see when their official forums launch, and also supports Keyboard & Mouse along with Controller. 

    However, this doesn't mean OnLive is trying to replace your computer. It is its own platform, but it's a console first and formost even if they have a PC and Mac client. Soon they'll have OnLive on the iPad and iPhone, but that doesn't mean OnLive is a mobile gaming service. And just because majority of the games on OnLive are the PC versions doesn't mean its a PC completely maxed out. The PC versions of the game are just easier to port and are scaled to compete with console versions. Again, its a service to compete with consoles, which is why they are releasing the micro-console.     

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    Saieno

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    #1  Edited By Saieno

    So there seems to be a lot of out-dated information, misconceptions, and poorly made assumptions about OnLive. 
     
    First-off everyone seems to think I'm a corporate plant, marketing shill, or some under-cover agency trying to market OnLive. First off, I love technology and I'm very excited about OnLive, I just can't stand it when people post out-dated information or assumptions as fact. I've written reviews for Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Terminator Salvation, AION: Tower of Eternity, Runes of Magic, and Perfect World International, two of which became video reviews (AION and Perfect World). I'm a Linux user mostly, and I've done a couple videos and blog posts on that as well. I also run a Final Fantasy XIV podcast called Lodestone Radio, but after a situation with Creative Labs and a sound card my computer is currently fried. But no, I must be some marketing plant because nothing about OnLive can be good! 
       
    After the November 17th announcement of the OnLive Micro-Console the user base for OnLive skyrocketed. In that week since the announcement, there have been more users than the entire history of OnLive...and it's still growing. They give promotions and discounts all the time, and the entire company and service is still in its infancy. Hell the main component for the entire service, the Micro-Console, isn't even out yet! The service is completely free (no monthly fees), you never have to upgrade your hardware, games and add-ons purchased load instantly and kept forever, theres no installing or waiting for downloads, many games on OnLive are half the price of stores, new releases are usually $10-$20 below stores, they have low-cost options to rent games for 3 to 5 days, and they constantly have promotions such as 75% off and game giveaways.

    Oh but that doesn't matter right? Cause the service sucks, it needs a crazy amazing internet connection, if the company goes under you can't keep the games, theres lag, the video looks shitty, theres no games, its too expensive, etc etc. That's all I hear anytime someone has something to say about OnLive, and I'm going to clear-up every single one right now.  
     

    1. The service sucks. 


    Most likely you've tried the service back in June and haven't looked again, are outside of USA or Canada and are attempting to play, or you've never tried the service because you're scared of change and need to justify the money you've put into your PC and/or Consoles.
      
    The OnLive service does exactly what it says it does. You can play any game on the service and try it for yourself free! www.onlive.com you can go right now and just download it, try it out, you'll be amazed if you stop for a moment and realize its not running on your computer at all. There are such great community features, such as the messaging, spectating, brag clips, and the zero latency multiplayer.

    Unlike other games you play online where you can see players jittering around on the screen, people using hacks and exploits, and other latency related issues, OnLive is completely devoid of these things. OnLive is basically run like a giant LAN network, so when you're spectating someone or playing a multiplayer game with them, there is no latency/lag/pause/jitter. It is instantaneous. What they see is EXACTLY what you see, and it's amazing.


    2. It needs a crazy amazing internet connection


    When people see or hear "FIVE MEGABIT CONNECTION" they turn the other way and can't fathom an internet connection so glorious and amazing as 5MB/s. But does MB equal Megabit? No, it doesn't. MB and Mb are two very different things, MB is known as Megabyte and Mb is known as Megabit. So what are the differences? Well Megabyte (or MB) is usually a measurement of size, you can see it when looking over files on your computer. Files like music which are 3MB, or movies which are 600MB, are all every day normal things and we don't question it.

    However, Megabit (or Mb) is not the same thing, in fact its much LOWER than MB. This is usually a measurment of internet speed, but only really used in the marketing of the internet service. Why would they use Mb over MB though when marketing a connection? Well 1MB is equal to 8Mb, and initially that 8 looks bigger than that 1 even though they mean the same thing. One Megabyte = Eight Megabit, which can be confusing but its true and thats just how things are.

    So lets go back to OnLive which requires at maximum a connection of 5Mb/s. Well that's not bad at all! I basically need a download speed of 0.610MB/s, or more commonly seen as 625KB/s. What exactly is the difference between 5Mb and 5MB, and why does it matter? If I say you're getting a 5Mb connection, majority of the population instantly assumes you will be downloading at 5MB a second. However, to download 5 Megabytes would take you around a minute on a 5 Megabit connection.

    What's better is the micro-console takes even less bandwidth than your PC or Mac does. Depending on your TV size you'll require a different amount of bandwidth. 52" is 5Mb/s, 42" is 4Mb/s, 32" is 3Mb/s etc. So it's safe to assume that if you have a 22" TV that you'll need 2Mb/s, that's the idea anyway.

    And for those waiting to shout about bandwidth caps, OnLive has partnered with many ISPs to not only re-route your connection to give you the best experience, but if rumors are true then OnLive doesn't affect your bandwidth cap. And even if it did, Comcast for example has a 250GB bandwidth cap which would give you 150 to 300 hours of gameplay a month. So no, you don't need some amazing internet connection.


    3. If the company goes under you can't keep the games


    This is somewhat of an odd statement, especially from people who just blindly attack the service without understanding it at all. First off, I don't think the games will be lost if the company goes under, since they are just sitting in a database somewhere which can be scaled to any size. Secondly, the company would only go under if you aren't buy or renting games, and if you aren't doing that anyway then you wouldn't have any games to keep regardless.

    Basically its a moot point, especially since they just seem to be getting bigger and bigger which is strange for a 'failing' company.
     

    4. Theres lag


    If there's lag its not because of OnLive thats for sure. Your internet is the issue at that point, and speaks more to the service of your ISP rather than the service of OnLive. Oh, you're saying the game itself is lagging? Again, not the fault of OnLive. Just Cause 2 is the only game on the service that runs at a sluggish pace, but this is because its running the PC version of the software. I ran Just Cause 2 on my PC as well, and it had that same sluggish feel as it did in OnLive. The PS3 version didn't have this issue though, so I would only assume that the Just Cause 2 engine isn't very optimized for PC hardware.


    5. The video looks shitty


    The current output for OnLive on PC and Mac is 1280x720, which is more commonly referred to as 720p. They are releasing 1080p output once the micro-console arrives, but I'll just use the current 720p resolution for this arguement. When you play OnLive on a monitor with the resolution at 1920x1080, which is more commonly referred to as 1080p, you are scaling the image which causes blurring. There are two video streams that OnLive uses while a game is being played. One is the media stream, which is used when spectating someone or when a brag clip is taken. This stream is usually lower in quality, more akin to a YouTube video. The second stream is the gaming stream, which is used when you're actually playing a game. The gaming stream is optimized for playing the game and looks crisp and clear. Of course you may see some compression if you look for it or take a screenshot, but OnLive is made to look great in motion and not in a still frame.


    6. Theres no games


    Of course the game selection is limited, the console isn't even out yet. However, they have 35 games right now and hope to have 50 games total before the end of the year. Not to mention another 100 games are currently in the pipeline for release in 2011, many of which are day-in-date with the console releases as well.

    Still, for a new console launch it has more games than Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 launched with. Xbox 360 launched with 18 titles, six of which were exclusive to the system. PlayStation 3 launched with 15 titles, six of which were exclusive to the system. OnLive has 35 games right at this moment, and may get more on the December 2nd launch of the micro-console, however that is more than Xbox 360 and PS3 had combined. Of course there are no exclusive titles yet, but given time I'm sure we'll see some interesting software come to OnLive.


    7. Its too expensive


    The Micro-Console pre-order announcement was made on the 17th, stating it costs $99 (keep in mind it never has to be upgraded). What do you get with this $99? Well you get the micro-console itself (never has to be upgraded), an extremely high-quality wireless controller, HDMI Cable, Ethernet Cable, and a Promo Code good for any game on the service. The OnLive controller has been praised by reviewers, many stating that its higher quality than first party controllers for Xbox 360 and PS3. Controllers for Xbox 360 and PS3 are usually $50, so lets assume that the controller is half the package price. The Promo Code is worth $50 as well, so there's your $99 right there. Basically you get the Console, HDMI Cable, and Ethernet cable all for free, its one of the best deals out there.

    When the Xbox 360 launched it was between $299 and $399, and curently sells between $299 and $399. When the PlayStation 3 launched it was between $499 and $599, and currently sells between $299 and $399. Usually these do not come with a game, and if they do you don't have a choice over what game it is. All you get is the system, component cables (so if you have an HDMI TV you need to buy it seperately), power cable and a controller. If you're just looking to play games and enjoy them with your friends, $99 is a much smaller pill to swallow.


    8. If the internet goes down you can't play games.


     Well thats true, but just like on Xbox 360 or PS3 if your internet is down you won't be playing games online. Sure you could play a single-player game, but gaming with others is generally more fun, even if they are just watching you play like on OnLive. Yes you could have your friends come over and play games with you, but you could also go over to your friends house and play OnLive there.


    9. I already have a Xbox 360/PS3, OnLive is pointless...


    Sure it might be pointless for you right now, but wait until the next generation consoles come out. OnLive will be running those next-gen games just as well as Xbox 720 or PS4 without any other fees. When your 360 red rings or your PS3 yellow lights you want to be sitting there for weeks waiting for it to come back from being repaired? Or even worse, your console is out of warrenty so not you have to pay even MORE to get it back. $99 or a basic computer and you can be on your games playing online.


    10. I already have a PC, OnLive is pointless...


    Of course we have the PC gamers who like their expensive parts, piracy, and being able to modify the games as they see it. That's all fine and dandy, but because you paid $800 to $1,500 for a computer to do all of that doesn't make the OnLive service or its console any less impressive or useful. OnLive supports user add-ons which we'll see when their official forums launch, and also supports Keyboard & Mouse along with Controller. 

    However, this doesn't mean OnLive is trying to replace your computer. It is its own platform, but it's a console first and formost even if they have a PC and Mac client. Soon they'll have OnLive on the iPad and iPhone, but that doesn't mean OnLive is a mobile gaming service. And just because majority of the games on OnLive are the PC versions doesn't mean its a PC completely maxed out. The PC versions of the game are just easier to port and are scaled to compete with console versions. Again, its a service to compete with consoles, which is why they are releasing the micro-console.     

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    cjmabry

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    #2  Edited By cjmabry

    I'm not gonna lie, when I read some of the earlier posts you were writing about OnLive, I was agreeing with the masses in thinking that this is crap. But I downloaded it and I have to say it's very impressive and a great deal if you have the internet connection for it. My ISP is stupid in that I have a 12MBps connection with a .5 Mbps upload speed, so I think that's why games run a tad sluggish. But I really do think this is the future of gaming, and computing in general. It's an amazing concept, that's for sure.

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    Brendan

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    #3  Edited By Brendan

    The new marketing probe tactic is apparently trying to convince everyone they're not a marketing probe.  Wait, that's not new.
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    KaosAngel

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    #4  Edited By KaosAngel

    I got Comcast, so I'd run out of my 250GB cap in 2 weeks if I use the same number of hours I use normally. 
     
    So, OnLive isn't for me.

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    Feanor

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    #5  Edited By Feanor

    Hey at least they gave it a shot. Someone should revisit this in a few years, maybe it will work out better.

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    Siphillis

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    #6  Edited By Siphillis

    A system like OnLive may be the future, but I'll be damned if the likes of Microsoft, Valve, Google, or even Netflix don't beat them to the punch.

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    iam3green

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    #7  Edited By iam3green

    good man, the $99 price point is good. the wii and onlive are the cheapest current generation consoles out there. i kind of want it but i don't have a fast internet. it's pretty slow man, i have to wait a couple of minutes for a video to load. maybe i'll get it when there are exclusive games and faster internet.

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    Saieno

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    #8  Edited By Saieno
    @Brendan said:

    " The new marketing probe tactic is apparently trying to convince everyone they're not a marketing probe.  Wait, that's not new. "

    I have an idea. I'll just start accusing everyone that hates OnLive of being an employee of Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, or Gaikai. Admit it dude, you're a corporate shill. Pfft.... 
     
     
    @cjmabry said:

    " I'm not gonna lie, when I read some of the earlier posts you were writing about OnLive, I was agreeing with the masses in thinking that this is crap. But I downloaded it and I have to say it's very impressive and a great deal if you have the internet connection for it. My ISP is stupid in that I have a 12MBps connection with a .5 Mbps upload speed, so I think that's why games run a tad sluggish. But I really do think this is the future of gaming, and computing in general. It's an amazing concept, that's for sure. "

    Awesome that you gave it a shot! Glad you tried it out at least, if you want you can add me on the service. Saieno is my tag. 
     
    And I agree with those stating that Microsoft, Sony, and Netflix will end up making something similar to this. It makes too much sense, but many are against the idea of not owning physical media. So who knows when they'll do that.
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    Diamond

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    #9  Edited By Diamond

    I have an idea, try to accuse others of being a shill so the fact that the only thing you ever post about being OnLive on MULTIPLE FORUMS while always using the same username doesn't tip absolutely every person off that you're a shill!

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    Saieno

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    #10  Edited By Saieno
    @Diamond said:
    " I have an idea, try to accuse others of being a shill so the fact that the only thing you ever post about being OnLive on MULTIPLE FORUMS while always using the same username doesn't tip absolutely every person off that you're a shill! "
    Yeah I post video reviews, written reviews, run a podcast, etc etc. It's called an identity, so when I write a review or do a video people know it was me and not "RandomName942".
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    SeriouslyNow

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    #11  Edited By SeriouslyNow
    @Diamond said:
    " I have an idea, try to accuse others of being a shill so the fact that the only thing you ever post about being OnLive on MULTIPLE FORUMS while always using the same username doesn't tip absolutely every person off that you're a shill! "
    Exactly.  This guy has to be the most obvious shill since ALLIWANTFORXMASISAPSP.  All he needs is the bobble hat and ladder shtick.
     
    @Saieno:
    Dude, seriously.  Go shill elsewhere.
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    Animasta

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    #12  Edited By Animasta

    haha, 8 is fantastic; "yeah, you can't play games, but when your internet goes down you can't play multiplayer games and YOU ONLY HAVE FUN WITH OTHER PEOPLE RIGHT!?"

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    SeriouslyNow

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    #13  Edited By SeriouslyNow

    What I don't get is that OnLive (or their marketing department) is employing someone who is actually harming their image.  He's not even a clever shill.  They should rethink their approach when they use dickheads like this shill.
     
    WORST. SHILL. EVER.

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    CaptainCody

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    #14  Edited By CaptainCody

    DIck ridiiing marketerrrs, and zero lag? I will literally find out where you live and laugh at your face, now get the fuck out of here with your 35 games.
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    Rockanomics

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    #15  Edited By Rockanomics

    The "Arena" feature is some pretty impressive ass technology, other than that I've only found it useful as something to play demos on.

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    benpicko

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    #16  Edited By benpicko

    OK so what happens if I move house, and the internet there is terrible, not even letting me play on the lowest quality, then all of my games and the money I've spent is gone. 
     
    Now if I just buy the games for PS3 or XBOX360, I get to keep them forever. I honestly don't know why you'd use this instead of a console.

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    ComradeKritstov

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    #17  Edited By ComradeKritstov
    @Saieno said:
    "

    3. If the company goes under you can't keep the games



    This is somewhat of an odd statement, especially from people who just blindly attack the service without understanding it at all. First off, I don't think the games will be lost if the company goes under, since they are just sitting in a database somewhere which can be scaled to any size. Secondly, the company would only go under if you aren't buy or renting games, and if you aren't doing that anyway then you wouldn't have any games to keep regardless.

    Basically its a moot point, especially since they just seem to be getting bigger and bigger which is strange for a 'failing' company. "
    This is the biggest piece of crap I have ever read. So the games are sitting on servers. So? How are the users supposed to get access if the company doesn't exist? Also arguing that if one person buys games from them then they could never go under. Right. Finally, because they are growing now that means they can't fail at some point in time?
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    Afroman269

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    #18  Edited By Afroman269
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    PhaggyBigNastyMcKill

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    He's trying to say something. Get him!!!!!!! 
     
     
    but yeah, I got crappy net, have a PC and Consoles already so even if all you say is true, I'm just not in the market for a new console. Timing is crucial too for a product to be successful you know. 

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    Saieno

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    #20  Edited By Saieno
    @SeriouslyNow said:

    " What I don't get is that OnLive (or their marketing department) is employing someone who is actually harming their image.  He's not even a clever shill.  They should rethink their approach when they use dickheads like this shill.
     
    WORST. SHILL. EVER. "

    Trolling is as trolling does. Not a shill, quit the slander and harassment please. Thanks. 
     
      
     @ComradeKritstov said: 
    This is the biggest piece of crap I have ever read. So the games are sitting on servers. So? How are the users supposed to get access if the company doesn't exist? Also arguing that if one person buys games from them then they could never go under. Right. Finally, because they are growing now that means they can't fail at some point in time? "
     
     The servers are leased out to the publishers if what Steve Perlman said in the Columbia University video is to be believed. They are just server racks with specialized hardware so the games run, which means they can be scaled up or down.
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    SeriouslyNow

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    #21  Edited By SeriouslyNow
    @Saieno:  It's not slander.  It's obvious to anyone who looks up your username here and around the web.  If you want to be embarrassed (and possibly out of job) go ahead and continue to make the pretense that you're not a shill when it's clear you are.  The majority of your internet published content and commentary is specifically regarding Onlive in an extremely positive light.  You're harassing us, not the other way around.  Go away shill.
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    TheGremp

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    #22  Edited By TheGremp

    I just bought Red Faction: Guerrilla for five(!) dollars on Onlive.  I have an average internet connection, but it still ran flawlessly in 720p.  No lag, and barely any compression artifacts.  
     
    I have a feeling that this type of service is going to get fairly popular in the next decade.  it already works, and it's only going to get better.

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    Chokobo

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    #23  Edited By Chokobo

    lol @ the people saying OP may be out of a job.  Ever think it might actually BE his job?
     
    IMO, the service works but the killer is the small selection of games due to the fact that most are at least 6-12 months old, are on console, I've already played or any mixture of those.

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    apathylad

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    #24  Edited By apathylad

    The Wi-fi is still in beta, isn't it? I've used it, and it's kinda neat, but I'm not using the recommended ethernet cable. 

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    StaticFalconar

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    #25  Edited By StaticFalconar
    @Saieno: Whether you are a shill or not, you really have to get in your head that Onlive is way ahead of its time. We are still in the age where even if all our computing is done right there and the only info we have to send to each other consoles/computers are button inputs and player positions, we still complain about lag. Yes its more apparent for some games that require quick reaction times then others, but its still there. Oh what its not Onlive's fault. Boo Hoo. Even if it is indeed our ISP fault, that just proves the internet infrastructure just isn't ready for it yet.  
     
     
    However, if your company does stick around long enough, then perhaps I will be interested in getting some form of Onlive the next time my 360 red rings, or my current comp is too old to play games, or when we hit the next wave of consoles where getting a 200-500 machine seems silly compared to 100 buck Onlive and hopefully by then I have a good enough connection. ANd yes I read about your paragraph on you don't really need that high of a bandwidth, but when you share the connection with the rest of the house that are also avid net users, that number is still high enough to make the entire house lag.  
     
     
    The rest of your points I could care less about since, you are basically asking me to shell out more money for an experience that isn't better then what we have now. At least 360 and PS3 tries to keep one upping each other graphically or features and with exclusives that there is some selling point as to why this console is better than the others.  
     
     
    So until that time comes, I am quite happy with my gaming platforms right now and nothing you say will make me want Onlive since I'm just not greedy, no matter how great Onlive may be. 
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    face15

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    #26  Edited By face15

    I really hope you are getting paid for this.

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    Saieno

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    #27  Edited By Saieno

    Are you people fucking retarded?  
     
    "You'll be out of a job"  "It might be his job"  "Your company"  "Hope you're getting paid for this" 
     
    Why? Seriously why? Is it because I do research before I go posting so I know what the fuck I'm talking about? Is it because before I start typing I try to make sure I know how whatever it is I'm talking about works? Google Saieno, you'll find OnLive, FFXIV, Vanguard, etc. OnLive are my most recent videos because thats been the most interesting news to me the last 5 months. 
     
    I've done way more videos for Vanguard than I have for OnLive, guess I was a shill when I wrote my review on it then eh? 
      http://www.giantbomb.com/vanguard-saga-of-heroes/61-4791/user-reviews/?review_id=14787
     
    Oh hell I've done videos for Linux too, guess I'm a shill thats plotting against Apple and Microsoft! Oh shit! I even made a blog post about it! 
      http://www.giantbomb.com/profile/saieno/linux-and-gaming/30-24910/  
     
    Why would I write a review on Windows 7 release as well though? DOUBLE SHILL!! 
    http://www.giantbomb.com/profile/saieno/initial-windows-7-reaction/30-25322/  
      
    Crap I still have my AION review on here! Damn it, now everyone will guess I'm a shill for NCSoft too! OMG! 
    http://www.giantbomb.com/aion-tower-of-eternity/61-21308/user-reviews/?review_id=8519  
     
    And the Runes of Magic review! Guess Frogster was paying me for that as well! How about no... 
     http://www.giantbomb.com/runes-of-magic/61-22239/user-reviews/?review_id=8055 
      
    They better not find my Runes of Magic Class Guide too, cause that would just let the whole cat outta the bag! Its even stickied in US and EU! SHILL!!
    http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthread.php?t=11430 
    https://forum.runesofmagic.com/showthread.php?t=47792  
     
     Better hope they don't find my FFXIV Podcast Lodestone Radio either! It has Lodestone in the name so I must be a shill! 
     http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/lodestone-radio-a-final-fantasy/id399024389?ign-mpt=uo%3D4
        
     
    Just because I write articles, make videos, and discuss topics I'm passionate about doesn't make me a fucking shill. Aren't we all gamers? What the hell happened to that? It's about the games, not the console or PC or service you're playing them on. So why the fuck does it matter that there's a service out there that you have no interest in using? Doesn't make the service any less real or innovative, and doesn't make the people that support it shills. Grow a fucking pair.

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    Tennmuerti

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    #28  Edited By Tennmuerti
    @Saieno:  

    1. You have made a general statement and then did not address it but made points about other issues, which you talk about below, so i will address those:
     
    2. Most internet providers advertise their service bandwidth in terms of Mb/s because it looks better then doing it in Megabytes, this is nothing new.  Onlive requires a 5Mb/s , this type of connection is still crazy fast for a lot of people not living in US or outside of major European cities. You tirade on bytes versus bits does nothing to address the issue that this is still too big a requirement for most people.
    Oh and that stuff about the TV is just silly, your bandwidth use will not depend on the size of your TV but on the definition at which the image is put out such as SD 720p or 1080p , TV size has nothing to do with this, a bigger TV will just stretch out that 720p image to the TV's size.
    250GB caps are nice, but a huge amount of people are sitting on caps of 20GB and lower, how many hours of gameplay is that? 10-20? 
    Yes internet connection in terms of bandwidth and caps is still a problem for a lot of people.
     
    3. If company goes under you loose games period. Don't spout lies please. who will operate the servers and keep them running for free if the company ceases to exist. Don't feed people bullshit. All companies no matter how big have potential to fail and cease their services or be taken over, etc.
     
    4. There is lag. Done. No shit it depends on your internet connection.
    Guess what, that is exactly the downside, because Onlive depends on your internet connection. 
    You have not disproved this point at all.
     
    5. Video does indeed look shitty. Most people play games on their PC in 1080p for one. Secondly Onlive disables a lot of graphical options to make the game run smoother. Last time I played a game in 720p on a PC was back in 2004. Furthermore if they introduce 1080p you will require even more bandwidth to be able to stream that.
     
    6. I agree with you. If the service succeed there will be more games. Not really an issue.
     
    7. Right now I have a choice of paying $99 for Onlive or $199 for a 360 not with the biggest HD. Oh and consoles do indeed frequently come with a game in the countries I've traveled to.
     
    8. Sooo you are saying that this point is indeed true?
    Because it is according to you. Also it may be more fun playing online for you but a lot of people never touch online gaming, in fact the majority of home consoles have never even been connected to the interned. Onlive will screw you out of your games if you have no internet connection. If your internet goes down with Onlive you are FUCKED. But with a console you can play your games whenever you want to, only the online component depends on internet.
    This is still a HUGE negative.
     
    9. It is pointless for people right now.
    Therefore people won't buy it right now. They might think about it if/when their console breaks or new one comes out. Then people will compare in their mind features of Onlive and a console and decide what to buy. Like you yourself said there is no point right now.
     
    10. Seriously? Dude how many times do I have to say it to you: "Stop saying bullshit about Onlive supporting user made mods." 
    It is not possible for Onlive to allow users to be able to modify their games like they can on PCs. On a PC I can go into game files themselves and adjust certain values to make FOV bigger or tweak game setting not available in menus; install 100+ mods for Fallout3 or Oblivion or NWN2 modules or games that don't even have dedicated modding tools like C&C3 where there are a number of total conversion mods. I can install save editing programs for games like Mass Effect 2 or others. In order to allow full degree of customization equal to that of PC they would need to make their servers 100% open, this will not happen.
    They might allow limited degree of customization for games that already support it. but nothing to the degree of openness of a PC.
     
     
    Final piece of advise:
    Stop preaching about Onlive like it is the second coming. Then people will be more responsive to you.
    What you are doing right now is just pissing people of and turning them against both you and Onlive.
    People are so negative towards you because from the outside perspective it looks like you are sucking Onlive cock really deep and hard. Make more balanced arguments without false facts and people will not scream "marketing plant" every time you post.
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    scarace360

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    #29  Edited By scarace360

    You know what i cant say anything bad until ive tried so im gonna try it and then come  back and if it sucks well then i called it.

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    Saieno

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    #30  Edited By Saieno
    @Tennmuerti:  
     
    This was originally on the OnLiveFans forums, but because you brought up many of the same points I'll post my response I gave him. 
      
        Originally Posted by tibbon   
    0) Citation on the userbase skyrocketing please. I don't think they have released sales numbers yet. Additionally, pricing is not always cheaper than alternatives like Steam.
     
      
       This review states that OnLive has had 2,000,000 logins from June to before November, which is roughly 14,000 concurrent users. And in their very own Special Thanks announcement, they state the surge in new users. Also, for Steam games you need to have the hardware and disk space for whatever it is you're running. 
     
     
          Originally Posted by tibbon    
     2) Citation needed on bandwidth cap. List of ISPs that have made deals, and addendums to their ToS please. No one should make decisions that could get them cut off their ISP, or high fees on rumor alone.     
     
    You can see a list of their partners, and in this video presentation at Columbia University he explains basically everything.

      
         Originally Posted by tibbon   
    3) This isn't a rumor. Its the truth. If OnLive goes bust tomorrow, there is no guarantee of access to games you have purchased.This is a valid concern and not rumor/myth as you claim.
        

       I don't believe I claimed this as a myth? If you watch the Columbia University presentation he clearly states that he leases the data centers to the publishers. It's just a rack of servers that have special hardware, they can be scaled up or down and placed anywhere really.
     
     
        Originally Posted by tibbon      
    5) The video quality is sub-par compared to it running locally. This isn't up for debate. It uses lossy compression. It looks worse.
        

       You should check out this review of the OnLive Micro-Console at Joystiq. Where they state and I quote: 

    " I was immediately struck by the image quality, having used the Mac client for months on a MacBook and being able to see artifacting even on the main "hub" menu. There was none of that to be seen here, with vivid colors and deep blacks that were in line with the best content I've viewed on my LCD set. Once in a game, I was wowed by the quality of the picture and the framerate. Assassin's Creed 2, Dirt 2 and many others looked noticeably better than their console counterparts, with higher framerates as well. My experience with the video looking compressed was mixed. Unreal Tournament 3 got downright muddy at times, while the aforementioned games and others such as Batman: Arkham Asylum, a very dark game, were razor sharp from my viewing distance, with compression artifacts only visible if I stood an abnormal distance from the screen"

     
         Originally Posted by tibbon       
    8) This isn't a myth. You can't play if you're not online. If you're on an airplane, in the car, a coffee shop with a poor connection, etc... you can't play at all.
        

       Actually one of the reviews out there (I'm not going through every single one, there's too damn many) stated he brought his laptop to a McDonalds, StarBucks, or Barnes and Noble or something, and had played OnLive without any issues at all. I don't remember what city he was in or anything but still. 
     
     
        Originally Posted by tibbon       
    9) We haven't seen the reliability of the Microconsole yet, so you have no data to compare it against the Xbox or the PS3. This seems to be a rather poor point in saying that all PS3s and 360's will break.
        

       I don't think I stated all PS3s and Xbox 360s break? Pretty sure I didn't state that. Regardless, the Microconsole has no moving parts, so the only thing that could happen is it over-heat. 
     

        Originally Posted by tibbon        
    10) Citation on add-ons for games when the forum launches. Can I play any Unreal Tournament mod I want then? Citation on the iPad/iPhone as well. How are they dealing with interface issues?.
        

       Read the OnLive TOS and EULA, the support for user-generated content section is in there, and explains that they are submitted through the forums. As far as the iPad/iPhone, in their most recent announcement videos he shows it off again as the first couple times was as far back as last year.
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    Geno

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    #31  Edited By Geno

    Just tried out Onlive today. There were connection issues, but admittedly I live in Canada so I won't comment on that. I'll just comment on the features: 
     
    Pros:  
     
    Interface is slick 
    Arena is an interesting feature  
    I like the Free Trial and Playpass model a lot; Free Trial allows enough time to judge the product and Playpass gives more flexible payment options 
    Very system-light. I was running 3 folding clients completely consuming 99.5% of my PC's resources and OnLive still ran fine. To put it in perspective, I can't even run a 1080p Youtube video while folding.
      
    Neutral: 
     
    Framerate hovers around 45 most of the time, dropping to the low 30s during action sequences. Better than consoles, worse than PC 

    Cons: 
     
    Can't adjust in-game graphics settings
    Load times are still there and no less short than on a local system, contrary to the marketing. In fact they're longer, since on the PC you can go into the game folder and remove the startup movies, not so with Onlive. 
    Picture quality is shit. Worse than consoles in some instances. It feels like playing in SD. It's not about resolution, it's about bitrate, and OnLive's is clearly quite low.
    No modding ability
     
    So OnLive is still a no-go for me. I think OnLive might be good for portable gaming on low-end laptops or netbooks, but it's not set to replace consoles or PC in the near future. 

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    Saieno

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    #32  Edited By Saieno
    @Geno said:

    Picture quality is shit. Worse than consoles in some instances. It feels like playing in SD. It's not about resolution, it's about bitrate, and OnLive's is clearly quite low.

    Just wanted to point out that the picture quality auto-adjusts based on your connection. So if you were having connection issues, then you're video is going to look super low quality as well. Hopefully they'll put more servers in Canada, I have a bunch of friends up there that can't wait to start playing.
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    PhaggyBigNastyMcKill

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    @Tennmuerti said:
    "..... you are sucking Onlive cock really deep and hard. ..... "
    Just sayin
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    Geno

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    #34  Edited By Geno
    @Saieno said:
    " @Geno said:

    Picture quality is shit. Worse than consoles in some instances. It feels like playing in SD. It's not about resolution, it's about bitrate, and OnLive's is clearly quite low.

    Just wanted to point out that the picture quality auto-adjusts based on your connection. So if you were having connection issues, then you're video is going to look super low quality as well. Hopefully they'll put more servers in Canada, I have a bunch of friends up there that can't wait to start playing. "
    I'm using a 25Mbps connection at the moment so downstream video quality is not a problem. My main issues were stuttering and lag about every 30 seconds or so, beyond that the connection was fine. I've also seen plenty of reviews of Onlive, and my results were similar to those seen in the reviews.
     
    Objectively speaking the video quality must be worse than on a local system, much worse. Recording with FRAPS for instance I fill up 4GB video files in about 90 seconds; and that's compressed. Onlive is only pumping a small fraction of that so even the best compression algorithms will only do so much. It competes with console quality at best, but consoles still have the upper hand. The advantage of having video output from a local system far exceeds the advantage of using stronger hardware but having to compress and transmit it hundreds of miles in an instant.The difference is especially apparent in busy action scenes.  
     
    The technology of Onlive is impressive but that doesn't change the fact that its image quality is last place, unfortunately. 
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    Tennmuerti

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    #35  Edited By Tennmuerti
    @Saieno: 
     
    2) This does not address my point on limited internet connections at all. Even remotely.
     
    3) What guarantee is there that publishers will continue to support their games on Onlive or even cooperate with each other (hah) to keep Onlive running if it goes bust?
    Doesn't solve or adress the issue.
     
    5) You should check out many more comparison videos out in the internet. This is one person's opinion. And Assasin's Creed 2 is a dated game that looks like ass anyway on any platform. I am inclined to admit that Onlive may have comparable to console experience output, this is still a far cry from PC.
     
    8) So the dude played using the places free internet. This does not address the fact the no internet = no play.
     
    9) Electronics fail. 
    Also this does not address what I actually wrote at all, this address a different argument against you. 
     
    10) Support for some user generated content =/= anything I mentioned above. You are just repeating your point, not addressing any of the points I made.
     
    My points 2,3,4,7,8,9,10 still stand.
    I am willing to accept that in (5) graphical department it could catch up to consoles. PC still offers hugely superior graphics.
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    SeriouslyNow

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    #36  Edited By SeriouslyNow
    @Saieno:   You're certainly passionate about OnlIve.  The kind of passion that people pay for.
     
    "Oh yeah Onlive!  Oh yeah, you're so big and powerful!  Oh yeah baby..."
     
    *chews some gum*
     
    "What?  No, of course I'm not distracted baby.  You're the best Onlive.   The best internet gaming service I ever had.  Don't worry about the size of your library baby, it's what you do with it that counts."
     
    You, in drag, sounding like Olive Oyl.
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    Guspaz

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    #37  Edited By Guspaz

    I tried OnLive tonight. I'm in Montreal, so I'm pretty close to the nearest OnLive datacenter. I've only tried one game, UT3. I have two impressions to share: 
     
    1) Latency is way lower than I expected. I've seen more input latency on native games. Crysis Warhead (native) seems to have about as much input lag as UT3 (OnLive) 
    2) OnLive's video quality is so bad in high-motion that UT3 is unplayable. It's *REALLY* bad. 
     
    To rule out the internet connection angle, I've actually got three connections coming into my apartment. I've got two 6Mbps DSL lines (800Kbps up) that I've bonded with MLPPP into a single logical 12/1.6 DSL line. I've also got a 50Mbps (2Mbps up) cable internet connection which I'm testing for my ISP. 
     
    For OnLive testing with the DSL lines, I connected to a Linksys router via an ethernet cable. For the cable internet test, I connected directly to the modem with an ethernet cable. My results with both connections were identical; clearly the internet connection is not a factor here; the low latency I experienced while playing should illustrate that. 
     
    Now, I'll provide a sample. Here is a screenshot I took whilst in motion, trying to shoot at things from a vehicle: 
     
    http://fixppp.org/guspaz/onlive.png
      
    Notice the slightly blueish spec to the right of the structure? That's an enemy. I think. It's really hard to tell since the image is a muddy mess. This image was taken playing on the 50Mbps cable internet connection.
     
    What's my verdict? OnLive shows a lot of promise, but until they boost their bitrates, it's not worth it for any high-motion games like UT3. When they do boost their bitrates, they'll have a very interesting offer indeed. 
     
    EDIT: The screenshot was taken at 1920x1080 (my native resolution), although OnLive is only pulling in 720p video. The resolution is irrelevant, 720p is plenty. It's the bitrate that's the problem. The bitrate is far too low to handle high-motion imagery. If you sit still, it's significantly clearer, but sitting still in an FPS means you're dead.

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    WilliamRLBaker

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    #38  Edited By WilliamRLBaker


    ""there have been more users than the entire history of OnLive...and it's still growing ""

    So...it went from 10 users to like 30?

     

    As for that I've tried it just last week and here are my resuls.

    25mbps down

    5mbps up

    Under that there was obvious input lag, and graphical compression was complete and utter shit.

     

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    Saieno

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    #39  Edited By Saieno
    @Guspaz said:

    " I tried OnLive tonight. I'm in Montreal, so I'm pretty close to the nearest OnLive datacenter. I've only tried one game, UT3. I have two impressions to share: 
     
    1) Latency is way lower than I expected. I've seen more input latency on native games. Crysis Warhead (native) seems to have about as much input lag as UT3 (OnLive) 
    2) OnLive's video quality is so bad in high-motion that UT3 is unplayable. It's *REALLY* bad. 

    First off I'm glad you gave it a try! Looking at your screenshot is strange because I don't really have the same experience as you.  One thing to keep in mind is OnLive has two streams, a gaming stream and a media stream. The Media stream is for the Arena and Brag Clips and plays back full frames, while the Gaming Stream is optimized to look crisp and clear while in motion and not in a screenshot.  It's a bit frustrating that OnLive works differently for different people, but here's the experience I had. 
     
      
     
      @WilliamRLBaker said:
    "

    So...it went from 10 users to like 30?



     Actually it went from 14,000 to 350,000.
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    DetectiveSpecial

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    #40  Edited By DetectiveSpecial

    What I don't understand is why you are trying to sell this device on a website consisting of people who already own and use superior technology?
    On-Live has a place, and can be successful. But the market that will purchase the On-Live box is not here. We already have gaming platforms. 
    You are, for lack of a better analogy, selling ice to Eskimos.

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    Saieno

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    #41  Edited By Saieno
    @DetectiveSpecial said:
    " What I don't understand is why you are trying to sell this device on a website consisting of people who already own and use superior technology?"
    I'm not trying to sell anything to anyone, this blog post was to clear up misconceptions about OnLive and thats about it.
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    Guspaz

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    #42  Edited By Guspaz
    First off I'm glad you gave it a try! Looking at your screenshot is strange because I don't really have the same experience as you.  One thing to keep in mind is OnLive has two streams, a gaming stream and a media stream. The Media stream is for the Arena and Brag Clips and plays back full frames, while the Gaming Stream is optimized to look crisp and clear while in motion and not in a screenshot.  It's a bit frustrating that OnLive works differently for different people, but here's the experience I had.
     
    Looks like I can't view what you posted at work (is it youtube? That's blocked here). 
     
    I can tell you that the screenshot that I posted is very much what it's like to play the game in motion. If I stand still (present OnLive with a relatively  low-motion scene), it doesn't look too bad. But when I'm running around trying to aim at targets, it falls apart; the image loses so much detail, that it's very hard to see what I'm shooting at. It's not the media/arena/etc that are the issue, it's the gaming stream. The bitrate is just too darned low. I suspect that UT3 is probably one of the worst-case scenarios, since vehicle gameplay tends to be extremely high motion; firefights on foot weren't quite as bad in terms of preserved detail. Not great, but not as bad. I believe that OnLive has said that they use about 5Mbps for 720p (which I'll admit I haven't verified)... I've got bandwidth to spare, so I'd rather if they cranked up the bitrate. 
     
    My understanding is that OnLive uses slice-based h.264 encoding (simply: they break each frame into horizontal slices) with a rolling intra refresh (no keyframes, a column of reference blocks rolls over the frame in a loop), with 16 slices. If they target 60FPS, and they want each slice to fit into a single UDP packet (say, 1460 bytes to be safe), they're sending out 960 slices per second, and if each can be up to 1460 bytes, you're looking at a maximum theoretical throughput (including audio and overhead) of 10.7Mbps without having to split slices into multiple packets (which doesn't hurt latency as much as it hurts resiliency to packetloss and jitter). It looks to me like they've got room to grow, bitrate-wise, so I very much hope that they do. While my experience with OnLive has been somewhat disappointing (from what little I tried), there is still something very cool about interactive gaming over a video stream. I really am very impressed with the latency, and it'd be very cool if they can get a quality improvement to bring it up to snuff. If nothing else, it's an excellent vehicle for demos, since the user doesn't have to wait to download a multi-gig demo just to try something out. 
     
    EDIT: It should be noted that slice-based encoding makes big quality trade-offs in order to achieve low latency. At the simplest level, blocks in a slice can't refer to blocks in other slices. At a more complex level, blocks in a slice can refer to blocks in other slices from previous frames, although that gets slightly risky (what if that previous slice was lost? This improves efficiency at the expense of less resilience to loss). So you really can't compare the efficiency of low-latency video compression with offline video compression. They're two very different use-cases that optimize for completely different things. A system like OnLive needs to optimize for constant frame sizes, low-latency and error resilience, while offline video compression doesn't care about any of that. So if you see anybody saying something stupid like "5Mbps should be enough for 720p, the videos I download from the internet look fine at that bitrate", then they just don't know what they're talking about!
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    Guspaz

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    #43  Edited By Guspaz

    Had a chance to watch your video. It's kind of hard to tell because it's been recompressed again to go on YouTube (which isn't exactly known for its stellar bitrates), but it does seem to be better than what I'm seeing. I can offer a few possibilities: 
     
    1) Location? Shouldn't matter, since I've tried two different net connections, both pretty fast, but perhaps OnLive is deciding for some reason that I shouldn't be going at full bitrate? I should monitor bandwidth usage while playing next time. 
    2) Game type? I had a friend try out OnLive at my place tonight, he chose deathmatch, I'd been playing that mode that's the modern version of Onslaught. I noticed that the image quality/playability is much worse in vehicles than it was in deathmatch. Both because the speeds are much higher in vehicles (more speed == more motion == harder to compress), and becaues enemies are much farther away when you're in vehicles, so they're smaller (on-screen) and more likely to get lost in the artifacting. 
     
    It might help if there were an OnLive datacenter in Toronto peering at TorIX. I'm in Montreal, but my ISP's PoP is in Toronto (500km to the west of me), making my distance to Washington DC ~1300KM by road (~820 miles). This is well within the range of OnLive's datacenter, and the latency was pretty decent, but it could be a factor. Perhaps my ISP just has really bad routing to OnLive, or there's congestion somewhere along the path?

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    trophyhunter

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    #44  Edited By trophyhunter

    So it's a complete joke that makes Powergig look like a brilliant release?
    I feel sorry you and anyone that even looks at onlive.

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    TwoOneFive

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    #45  Edited By TwoOneFive

    i agree OnLive is the future folks. believe it. 

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    TwoOneFive

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    #46  Edited By TwoOneFive
    @ComradeKritstov said:

    " @Saieno said:

    "

    3. If the company goes under you can't keep the games



    This is somewhat of an odd statement, especially from people who just blindly attack the service without understanding it at all. First off, I don't think the games will be lost if the company goes under, since they are just sitting in a database somewhere which can be scaled to any size. Secondly, the company would only go under if you aren't buy or renting games, and if you aren't doing that anyway then you wouldn't have any games to keep regardless.

    Basically its a moot point, especially since they just seem to be getting bigger and bigger which is strange for a 'failing' company. "
    This is the biggest piece of crap I have ever read. So the games are sitting on servers. So? How are the users supposed to get access if the company doesn't exist? Also arguing that if one person buys games from them then they could never go under. Right. Finally, because they are growing now that means they can't fail at some point in time? "
    they are profiting far more than any other game console company would at launch, and they are groing fast. (remember they dont have to waste millions on making hardware at all). they have a very small chance of going under anytime in the foreseeable future. yes its a possibility but not enough to completely turn you off from downloading the service FOR FREE on you pc, mac, laptop whatever!
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    lazyturtle

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    #47  Edited By lazyturtle

    I just bought my 1st game over the weekend (Borderlands). It works great..in fact it works better than most games do on my PC (my graphics card is old and weak). I had a couple of hiccups where video quality and gameplay weren't optimal, but they only lasted a few seconds each and they occurred while I was streaming netflix to the tv at the same time. Overall I'm very pleased..I just hope they expand the game selection some..its a bit FPS heavy at the moment.

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    CptBedlam

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    #48  Edited By CptBedlam

    I keep seeing these information threads about Onlive regularly popping up on various gaming forums. It starts to smell like viral marketing to me, to be honest.

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