Besides blizzard, valve and few others most people cant seem to make alot of money off pc games. I think issue is not that there is lack of pc players but devlopers are treating a pc like a console and not under standing its different. You can put the same game and expect it to do good.
The dev's that actually try get the profit.
And ones who dont know how to catter to pc player fall.
PC
Platform »
The PC (Personal Computer) is a highly configurable and upgradable gaming platform that, among home systems, sports the widest variety of control methods, largest library of games, and cutting edge graphics and sound capabilities.
Pc gaming is not dieing. Dev's just dont know how to make money..
" So what exactly do you think that devs and publishers should do? "stop making bad games and invest in exclusives that are not mmo's.
" So what exactly do you think that devs and publishers should do? "Invest in exclusives and make better games. (Not mmo's)
Devs not making money = Devs dying. Devs dying = market dying.
The fact that they are approaching the market wrong and thus causing it to fall doesn't mean that the market isn't falling.
Don't get me wrong. PC gaming is great, but I don't think it will ever rival the console market outside of Valve and Blizzard. The money is with the consoles, and that is where the publishers will focus their efforts. Hopefully we will continue to see smaller games find a home on PC, but the big titles have already moved on.
" @nintendoeats said:Like Crysis. The sequel of which is coming to consoles. Or Valve games, which are now on consoles. Or C&C games which are now on consoles. Shall I go on?" So what exactly do you think that devs and publishers should do? "Invest in exclusives and make better games. (Not mmo's) "
" @nintendoeats said:the way to save PC games is to tell devs and publishers to only put their games out on one platform?" So what exactly do you think that devs and publishers should do? "Invest in exclusives and make better games. (Not mmo's) "
" @nintendoeats said:Really?" So what exactly do you think that devs and publishers should do? "Invest in exclusives and make better games. (Not mmo's) "
I mean, you really think it's as simple as that?
" @brandoncooper17 said:Crysis, yes that's coming to consoles. The other 2 examples are not good enough. Gabe Newell pointed out that the Xbox 360 is not the best platform to put Valve games on due to it not being open and Command & Conquer 4 wasn't even put on consoles. I would use the Sims 3 as a good example with Crysis." @nintendoeats said:Like Crysis. The sequel of which is coming to consoles. Or Valve games, which are now on consoles. Or C&C games which are now on consoles. Shall I go on? "" So what exactly do you think that devs and publishers should do? "Invest in exclusives and make better games. (Not mmo's) "
And who exactly is supposed to be paying for exclusivity? You don't need to get MS approval and licensing to make PC games, unless you want to be part of the "Games for Windows" brand, and MS would be more interested in supporting the Xbox anyway." @nintendoeats said:
Invest in exclusives and make better games. (Not mmo's) "" So what exactly do you think that devs and publishers should do? "
Well that was some truly insightful analysis on the part of the OP. I'm sure your phone will be lighting up with calls from publishers!
I love PC gaming, but there's no denying that is just not in the same state it was 5-10 years ago. If there were a simple solution for publishers to make more money on the platform then we'd see the results.
Despite the fact that it's "dying" I think it's in a great position now, I think we'll continue to see innovative games they just won't be the big budget mega games. Those games will always follow the money.
Why should they even care anymore? PC gaming appeals to a small audience that Blizzard and Valve have a vice grip on. There is no incentive to release a game on a platform that is plagued with so many problems that will inevitably hurt your business. And there's no interest group that would want to buy exclusives for the PC the way MS and Sony does.
The only ones who win are the few that manage to enact capitalism 2.0, indie developers that people simply want to give money to because they enjoy their work. It's the exact same issue as the music industry. We're moving into an age in which only geniuses can make money off their art, but that's another subject entirely.
Everyone should know this but it bear's repeating, PC developers should focus on games you can't find on consoles developed by small teams, with a low low price, and available via digital distribution first.
" @nintendoeats said:The fact that Valve doesn't want to release games on the 360 but still does is evidence of my point. The company that is arguably doing the most to save PC gaming doesn't stay exclusive." @brandoncooper17 said:Crysis, yes that's coming to consoles. The other 2 examples are not good enough. Gabe Newell pointed out that the Xbox 360 is not the best platform to put Valve games on due to it not being open and Command & Conquer 4 wasn't even put on consoles. I would use the Sims 3 as a good example with Crysis. "" @nintendoeats said:Like Crysis. The sequel of which is coming to consoles. Or Valve games, which are now on consoles. Or C&C games which are now on consoles. Shall I go on? "" So what exactly do you think that devs and publishers should do? "Invest in exclusives and make better games. (Not mmo's) "
I think the only way to save pc gaming at this point is for consumers to buy high-quality PC titles, whether they are exclusive or not. Devs are doing what they can (bullshit DRM aside), its really down to us now.
" The fact that Valve doesn't want to release games on the 360 but still does is evidence of my point. The company that is arguably doing the most to save PC gaming doesn't stay exclusive. "...wait what? The top selling PC games this year were both by Blizzard. Blizzard is doing more to save the PC market and they're pushing the PC economy forward.
" @nintendoeats said:But Valve is creating the infrastructure that is supporting the market going forward. Steam is amazing for small devs and a easy means of DRM and updating. B.net does the same, but only for Blizz games." The fact that Valve doesn't want to release games on the 360 but still does is evidence of my point. The company that is arguably doing the most to save PC gaming doesn't stay exclusive. "...wait what? The top selling PC games this year were both by Blizzard. Blizzard is doing more to save the PC market and they're pushing the PC economy forward. "
People will always buy good product's if they're available to them, and truth be told, apart from European developers, BioWare, Valve and Blizzard are pretty much the only 3 good major examples on how to properly invest in PC gaming-- they've made millions out of PC gamers alone (that doesn't mean they don't work for consoles, but their games always play better on the PC).
Apart from these companies, most PC games are just ports and were originally conceived to play on consoles, and that actually shows. So yeah, if companies make quality games for PC they're bound to get their money back; and more.
As for PC gaming being dead or dying... that couldn't be more far from the truth. I mean, take a look at the history of video games. Consoles come and go, but the PC have always been there. There's always been talk of PC gaming to be dying ever since console gaming went mainstream and nonetheless, it's always been the consoles to perish and to give way to newer technologies and models...
The PC is adaptable. Consoles... not so much.
" @nintendoeats said:I wouldn't really want to say Blizzard is doing that. Their platform very much feels like they're trying to consolize their game. No mods, no maps you can download from other sites, and the fact that they ban people that use their own single player hacks. I'm not saying their system is crap. It does look beautiful and easy to use, but it's far from what real PC gamers want." The fact that Valve doesn't want to release games on the 360 but still does is evidence of my point. The company that is arguably doing the most to save PC gaming doesn't stay exclusive. "...wait what? The top selling PC games this year were both by Blizzard. Blizzard is doing more to save the PC market and they're pushing the PC economy forward. "
" @KaosAngel said:I was going to respond, but I was pretty much going to say this." @nintendoeats said:But Valve is creating the infrastructure that is supporting the market going forward. Steam is amazing for small devs and a easy means of DRM and updating. B.net does the same, but only for Blizz games. "" The fact that Valve doesn't want to release games on the 360 but still does is evidence of my point. The company that is arguably doing the most to save PC gaming doesn't stay exclusive. "...wait what? The top selling PC games this year were both by Blizzard. Blizzard is doing more to save the PC market and they're pushing the PC economy forward. "
"But Valve is creating the infrastructure that is supporting the market going forward. Steam is amazing for small devs and a easy means of DRM and updating. B.net does the same, but only for Blizz games. "At the end though, if Blizzard is getting PC gamers to fuel the PC economy, Valve's good will means nothing. Let's say Blizzard fuels 70% of the spending of PC gamers, is that 30% by Valve worth it?
No, Blizzard is getting PC gamers to fuel the Blizzard economy. They aren't doing anybody else any favours. If half of the consumer base hadn't been giving all of their free time (and a decent chunk of their money) to WoW for the last 5 years then it's likely at least some of those people would be buying other games instead.
Valve provides a service which facilitates the rest of the industry to make money on the PC; Blizzard doesn't.
Pc gaming is not dying. If it was dying,it would have long ago when ppl. were saying this.
Pc gaming however is suppressed. There are factors, from the devs having an easier time to make games for consoles, to making more money , to avoid losses to piracy. I see it continuing this way, with some devs doing shitty Pc ports, to devs doing good ports but Pc being n the tail position, to Pc oriented games. Steam has become a rock for Pc games to form on, as well as Developers like valve who at least share their efforts across the board. Pc gaming really is in my view too much of an institution to die, with it's own rules and values, but it has taken a massive hit. Oh well, the new consoles do their job, it has to be accepted.
And I do not see this changing anytime soon. Maybe cloud streaming in the future..idk.
" @Slaker117 said:I think we have some disagreement about what it means to "save PC gaming." If people are only buying games from one company, that's not PC gaming saved."But Valve is creating the infrastructure that is supporting the market going forward. Steam is amazing for small devs and a easy means of DRM and updating. B.net does the same, but only for Blizz games. "At the end though, if Blizzard is getting PC gamers to fuel the PC economy, Valve's good will means nothing. Let's say Blizzard fuels 70% of the spending of PC gamers, is that 30% by Valve worth it? "
" @Slaker117 said:Hate to burst your bubble, but the spending of PC gamers is driven by PopCap and Zynga, not Blizzard."But Valve is creating the infrastructure that is supporting the market going forward. Steam is amazing for small devs and a easy means of DRM and updating. B.net does the same, but only for Blizz games. "At the end though, if Blizzard is getting PC gamers to fuel the PC economy, Valve's good will means nothing. Let's say Blizzard fuels 70% of the spending of PC gamers, is that 30% by Valve worth it? "
PC gaming isn't dead and devs know exactly how to monetize it: with Bejeweled and FarmVille.
If you mean monetizing hardcore PC games... well, I'd put more stock into Steam than Blizzard. Starcraft II isn't a failure by any standard, but it's nowhere near a WoW-size success. WoW is WoW. It's a platform more than it is a game. For the rest of the stuff, Steam is a nice third platform where devs can get some extra cash for console ports or indies can see a widespread release, but that's the extent of it. Steam is driven by its special sales and a few big hits every year, which is what the core PC market is these days. You (and by you I mean people with a PC that can run modern games) don't want to play games in your PCs. With good reason. For how cool Steam is it still doesn't provide the support or metagame additions of Live and PSN, not to mention the comfortable living room-friendliness and no-fuss multimedia for cheap. You don't want it because it's not convenient, blaming developers for that, like the OP and a chunk of the gaming community does, is disingenuous at best, really stupid at worst.
SC2 sold over 3 million, and Cata sold over 3 million. That's 6 million people going into a store to buy a physical product. When was the last time a PC game did that? That's how you fuel the economy.
" @brandoncooper17 said:Yes, just make them like...good! get on it son!" @nintendoeats said:Really? I mean, you really think it's as simple as that? "" So what exactly do you think that devs and publishers should do? "Invest in exclusives and make better games. (Not mmo's) "
But if devs don't know how to make money from it, they're going to stop making games for the PC. What's the point in developing for PC when you're not making money from it? And if developers aren't developing games for PC (or at least very few devs), that effectively makes PC gaming dead, right? The developers inability to make money from PC games will lead to the death of the platform as a gaming device.
For the record I don't think PC gaming is dying, but there are serious flaws in that argument.
" Firstly, I don't think PC gaming is dying, I think it's alive and well. However, your argument doesn't make sense; people not being able to make money off of something any more is the exact definition of an industry dying. "Actually that is the exact definition of competition. If a firm fails to make financial profits and is forced to exit the market that means it failed to compete with other firms in said market.
I wouldn't say 'dieing', but only because thats not how you spell that word.
I play games exclusively on PC, haven't owned a console myself since the ps1, and technically that was my brothers'.
PC games are great, but there are definitely less and less of them every year. Even fewer are titles made exclusively for PC. Theres also the ones that are afterthought port jobs from console games released months or years earlier (see: Rockstar Games[not that their PC Ports aren't good]).
I think when it comes to the PC market digital distribution is a must and some developers/publishers are still behind the times/cautious/conflicted when it comes to that. A good recent example is Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit, That game is on PC, looks great. plays greats, the controller mapping menu is one of the better I've seen in a console-to-pc port of any game you'd want to play with a gamepad. I 'got' this game within its first week of release and found just the offline gameplay fun enough to decide to purchase it. However during the blackfriday sales where you could pick it up for $35 I couldn't find a PC copy in wal-mart or on that dusty creeky shelf in the back corner of my local gamestop. You can get the game online @EA Store, but quite frankly in my experience EA Store sucks(so does GFWL). Download speeds are not suitable for games that are growing toward 20GBs, and DRM can still cause an inconvenience where there shouldn't be one. If this game were available on Steam for 40 or 50 bucks, I probably would have bought it this morning.
I think to sell to a PC audience, you have to put some work into making your console-port PC friendly. Optimize the menus for a mouse/key setup, make mapping gamepads intuitive, give us performance options(+don't LIE about sys requirements), don't give us that console FOV in shooters, in the DLC age don't nickle and dime your customers for every little piece of content(or if you do, make it very easy to purchase), give shit away for free even if it was on the disc anyway, and support the title as if it were on a console(patch it when its FUCKED on day 1). If you do these things, you won't have to worry about piracy because you'll (hopefully) come out in the end anyway because people who spend thousands of dollars on their PCs and pay upwards of $60/month for internet access HAVE MONEY. They'll buy your game if they trust what and how you're selling it.
Steam is how I want my game, I've used it since it was in beta and sucked. I hated it for a couple of years, but now it's hard to want to play a game that I can't buy on steam, play anywhere on any pc, with my savegames coming with me via steamcloud. I think its sad that some publishers won't put a game on Steam because they don't want Valve to control so much of the market. Valve and Blizzard control so much of the PC market because they have the games PC gamers want and deliver content in a way that people like.
Have the BIGGER titles moved on? The Half-Life series still is dominant on the pc than the console. I'd argue, even with some of the PISS POOR decisions regarding the Call of Duty franchise, it's best iteration is still on the PC. I think when someone says games are made with consoles in mind, they have a point...these games were never made with the PC in mind, so really they could have never moved on if they never considered the pc in the first place. Halo. Uncharted. Resistance...all console games...only one with a pc iteration that came after the console version. Moved on? no. Perhaps established it's home where the market is most lucrative an unabashedly devoted...yes.
" @brandoncooper17 said:yea but those are all ports from PC to xbox not the other way around..." @nintendoeats said:Like Crysis. The sequel of which is coming to consoles. Or Valve games, which are now on consoles. Or C&C games which are now on consoles. Shall I go on? "" So what exactly do you think that devs and publishers should do? "Invest in exclusives and make better games. (Not mmo's) "
" @Mu5hy: Dude, how are PC games 20GBs? Are they not bothering to optimize memory anymore? "
- "*Call of Duty®: Black Ops requires an initial hard drive space of approximately 24GB to download and install the game via digital download (8GB of compressed files, 8GB of decompressed files and 8GB of installed files). Upon installing the game, 16GB (compressed and decompressed files) may be deleted from the hard drive. Please make note of where the compressed and decompressed files are being saved on your hard drive in order to later locate these temporary files for removal."
WOW if you count the expansions is 20gb
GTA4 is 16
BC2 is 15
Need For Speed HP is 7.5
Not all games are 20, but they are only getting bigger.
" @mrhankey: Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that they are gone from PC. You seem to be echoing what I meant. Just a matter of wording. Most publishers focus games to be made on the consoles (usually 360) and then port them to PC. And they sell better on consoles. They will still provide a version for PC, but it is clear what they really care about. I think we are in agreement, are we not? "I would agree with this, but I think that is part of the problem. I can't blame them for it, obviously more money is going to come from the consoles and most of the time it just doesn't make sense to devote resources to a platform that has piracy issues. But at the same time, if they would put more work into the PC port, and sell it on a solid digital distribution platform (steam) they would see better sales for the PC version.
" @Mu5hy: Weird. I mean, of course games get bigger over time, but it sucks that you have to jump through added hoops when the console versions can just sit on a dvd. "idk, I don't see it as much of an obstacle. HD space is cheap these days, I have almost 2TBs in this PC and another TB external on my router. Its just that for digital distribution you need to have a lot of fast servers to deliver those files at a high speed. My experience with EA store has been sloooooowwwww speeds, while steam usually maxes out my connection. I might have to try that new Games for Windows marketplace or whatever that thing is.
It's not just the quality factor of games. It's also the hardware side of things. For a PC to have the absolute best graphics available you need to upgrade your rig. Add all those components up on a timely basis and that is a lot of money. In that respect, console prices are "cheaper" because no upgrades are needed. Developers just learn to squeeze every bit of processing power out of them whereas on a PC there is no limit, as long as you buy the latest hardware.
Don't get me wrong though, I own both a PC and console and game on both. I just upgraded my video card less than a month ago. Some gamers don't want to deal with that hassle and it's understandable.
" @Slaker117 said:So then you only have to download 8GB~. Saying that the games are 20 GB+ is kinda untrue." @Mu5hy: Dude, how are PC games 20GBs? Are they not bothering to optimize memory anymore? "
"*Call of Duty®: Black Ops requires an initial hard drive space of approximately 24GB to download and install the game via digital download (8GB of compressed files, 8GB of decompressed files and 8GB of installed files). Upon installing the game, 16GB (compressed and decompressed files) may be deleted from the hard drive. Please make note of where the compressed and decompressed files are being saved on your hard drive in order to later locate these temporary files for removal."
@KaosAngel said:
" @Mu5hy: SC2 is close to 15 gigs, and Star Wars the Force Unleashed is 30 gigs too. "Haven't checked Star Wars but just checked my SC2 folder and it's 8.59 gigs, not close to 15.
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