Best Persona Game

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Edited 6 months, 19 days ago

Poll: Best Persona Game (405 votes)

Persona 1 (not counting that weirdly put together localization) 0%
Persona 2: Innocent Sin 1%
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment 1%
Persona 3 FES/Portable 19%
Persona 4/ P4Golden 52%
Persona 5 27%

After beating Persona 5 I've been thinking a lot about the series as a whole and how far it has come since the old days of when they still put Shin Megami Tensei

on the box. And after careful thought, my personal favorite game is P4 still (P5 is

a very, very close second for me). Which game did you guys like the most and why? The story, the gameplay options, or just the feeling of the game as a whole?

Edit: Ok maybe after careful thought P5 is my favorite...

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#1 Posted by afabs515 (1967 posts) -

In terms of gameplay and mechanics, it's 5 by a mile.

In terms of characters, plot, and writing in general, I don't think there's a game out there that will ever do more for me than Persona 4.

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#2 Posted by Zeik (4957 posts) -

I still have a ton of fondness for P4, and if I let my nostalgia factor in it might even still take the top spot, but P5 just improved so much on P4 I definitely feel it's the best overall game.

They all have their high and low points though. Even P1.

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#3 Posted by FacelessVixen (2153 posts) -

I say 4 only because I haven't played 5, and I'll give 3 its due credit despite the issues I've had with it.

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#4 Posted by Teddie (2029 posts) -

P5 would be on top but P4's setting and characters are better, which outdoes the QOL stuff they added in P5.

I actually used the fast travel basically every time I needed to go somewhere in P5 because everything was so big and confusing (the point, sure, but that didn't work for me). I still don't even know where on the map Yusuke is when you can hang out with him, and I kept forgetting about all the shops where you can buy gifts. That and the severe lack of vocal music (not to mention the music not having a dramatic change when the seasons change like it does in P4) just made the setting feel artificial because I never wanted to walk around anywhere.

Characters is a more obvious comparison, in the way that P5 had like... two good ones in the main group. They're all just too simple and boring, they barely interact with each other and when they do, it doesn't feel like a bunch of friends hanging out. Also the running gag of "all our celebrations end in failure" wasn't actually funny, and just came across as wasted opportunities time and time again. They go to Hawaii and literally stand around and talk about themselves the entire time.

That said, the dungeons in P5 are great, the gameplay overall is great, and everything else is still better than P3. P4G definitely has issues (especially the creepy boner stuff they added), but it's easily my favourite JRPG since it hits all the most important notes that matter to me, perfectly.

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#5 Edited by TheLoyalTraitor (54 posts) -

I think if I had played Persona 4 earlier, it would be my favorite. But 5 was my first one and I didn't play 4 until right after I finished 5.

I think 4 is probably better executed. The story is more focused and tighter, and the characters are generally better written. But I don't think it has anywhere near the ambition of 5. 5 really had a clear message that resonated pretty strongly with me (especially given what's been happening in the US this year). 4 just doesn't have that.

I get why people may not like the characters of 5 as much, but I personally like them as much as if not more than the cast of 4. I found them extremely relatable and more real than the characters of 4. I saw a lot of people I know in the characters of 5, and I've probably never identified with a game character as much as I did with Ann (even though they really fail to use the interesting parts of her character for most of the game).

The biggest criticism I see comparing 4 to 5 is that in 5 it doesn't feel like the characters really get to spend enough time just being friends. After playing 4, I see where that criticism comes from, but I think people don't give enough credit to the texting in 5. The group text has the best writing in the game, and I think it really does a good job of making the group feel like real friends.

Also, the non-party-member confidants in 5 are almost all better than the ones in 4. Sojiro is a much better character than Dojima imo, and Kawakami is just perfect.

Finally, I didn't play Golden (kinda wish I had), but the dating in 5 is SO much better than in it is 4. I still wish it was a more significant part of the game, but compared to 4, having some scenes scattered throughout the game was great. The Christmas scene was really impactful.

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#6 Posted by jay_ray (1557 posts) -

@afabs515 said:

In terms of gameplay and mechanics, it's 5 by a mile.

In terms of characters, plot, and writing in general, I don't think there's a game out there that will ever do more for me than Persona 4.

Exact same thought. Voted P4 because for me the story is extremely important in Persona.

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#7 Posted by doctordonkey (1575 posts) -

I mean Persona 5 is just a better video game than the others. People are going to like different sets of characters from the different games more than others, but in terms of what is the most well crafted and polished game with the most content, it's definitely P5.

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#8 Edited by Rodin (336 posts) -

Persona 3 is my favourite because of its tone and style, and I really like the characters.

But persona 5 is the the best game to actually play, ts the most polished and well made.

I imagine every answer will be the same pretty much, blank is my fav but 5 has the best balance and gameplay.

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#9 Posted by imhungry (858 posts) -

The gameplay systems in P5 outdo all the other games so much it's barely even comparable. Story wise I guess I'm one of the minority that actually prefers the story in 5 over 4 because all the different characters, both main party and otherwise, feel much more cohesive in driving toward the core themes in the game. That being said, both of them have the weakness of tying the meaty character growth moments of the main party to S.Links which leads to some dissonance back in the main plotline. Would much rather they handle main party S. Links more like in P3 where they flesh out other aspects of the characters that aren't as readily apparent.

All told I'd still put 5 at the top of the list but they all have pros/cons. Like Morgana. Morgana sucks.

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#10 Edited by totsboy (421 posts) -

I have only played 3, 4 (golden) and 5.

For me 4 is the best by a long shot, the characters and the story are much better. 5 does have better gameplay and mechanics overall though.

I also think that the vita plays a big part in this, for me it's the perfect way to play such a long game, being able to play anywhere and resuming gameplay instantly, not being a slave of a saving point.

The PS4 suspend/resume helps, but it's not the same. I took a very long time to finish P3 on ps3 because of this "inconvenience".

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#11 Posted by viking_funeral (2858 posts) -

Polish & gameplay = Persona 5

Story, atmosphere, and cast = Persona 3

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#12 Posted by TheLoyalTraitor (54 posts) -

@imhungry said:

Morgana sucks.

Okay, I get why people hate Morgana. I get it. But I have to say that Persona 5 was my first Persona game, and these games can be overwhelming at first. Especially in 5, which has way more to do than the previous games. Being eased into the general flow of the game actually really helped me get into the game without feeling lost or feeling the need to look at a guide. I agree, they went overboard with it, but I actually appreciated the idea behind it.

And I can't hold the "go to sleep" stuff against Morgana. I think he's actually a really fun character and his presence with you throughout the game makes it more entertaining (the exams wouldn't be the same without him).

Again, though, I get why Morgana would be annoying as hell for anyone who's played a Persona game before.

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#13 Edited by Milijango (197 posts) -

It's 5.

I can completely understand why people took issue with the inconsistent localisation and even the lack of social events, but even with those two things (and I actually think that second one works in the game's favour by the end) the story and characters in Persona 5 were easily the most compelling in the series. Enough has been said about the game's style and flow so yeah. P5.

Music, on the other hand... I'm completely unable to rank them. They're all perfect.

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#14 Posted by ajamafalous (13731 posts) -

I liked 5 more than 4.

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#15 Posted by tatsuyarr (209 posts) -

Best is Persona 3 then Persona 4 and finally Persona 5. I've never finished Persona 1 and 2. 3 and 4 have best location, Tokyo is so boring and overdone. Best characters are probably Persona 4 but best story is 3. Gameplay wise nothing change that much between 3, 4 and 5. I don't like the negotiation mechanic in 5 neither the fact that you don't surround the enemies during combats anymore and you can only play with 3 characters instead of 4.

5 has certainly better graphics and all but that's not enough to be the best game.

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#16 Posted by imhungry (858 posts) -

@theloyaltraitor: Oh, no I'm totally fine with that stuff. Morgana's little character growth arc was just horribly executed and ended up ultimately pointless and with little to no actual character growth. I went from liking him to being sour on him in less than 2 hours and he never really picked back up after that.

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#17 Posted by redcream (842 posts) -

Persona 5 for the style and the combat. Persona 4 for the cast of characters and the story. Some people are disappointed with Persona 5 because it's not Persona 4 but that is just unfair.

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#18 Edited by TheLoyalTraitor (54 posts) -

@imhungry: I'll agree his character arc was mostly pointless, but the part when he leaves the group and you run into him and Haru in the palace is one of my favorite parts of the game. The two of them trying to be cool and actually being totally shitty and lame was really funny to me. His whole arc is definitely overplayed and way too drawn out, plus they never really explain what the fuck his dreams were about, but I liked his personality a lot, and mostly just ignored that stuff.

I didn't think his story was distractingly bad or anything, I just thought it was kind of meh.

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#19 Edited by Redhotchilimist (2520 posts) -

@jay_ray: same. 5 is so much better gameplaywise. But I love the P4 cast and interactions and sorely missed them in p5. Still, p5 isn't far behind. It's a great game.

I hated p3 and never played the earlier ones. They're on the psp and ps vita or something? I just don't have access to them, which is a shame. I think a lot of my gameplay problems with p3(no direct commands, the equip menus etc) were rectified in p3p.

@tatsuyarr said:

I don't like the negotiation mechanic in 5 neither the fact that you don't surround the enemies during combats anymore and you can only play with 3 characters instead of 4.

Wait

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#20 Posted by theuprightman (155 posts) -

I started playing Persona 1 last night, as I finished P5 last week I thought I would give it a go, it will give me an excuse to use my Vita, I do understand that its a very different experience from later games.

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#21 Posted by Drachmalius (236 posts) -

P4G for me but it's like being asked to rank the albums from your favorite band. They're all top tier games. 4 just had an emotional impact on me that was lacking in 3 and 5, I was more invested in the characters.

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#22 Posted by mgalchemist (78 posts) -

I love all of these games (except for 1, which i have yet to play), but I voted for 3. There's definitely personal bias since I had a really great experience playing the game for the first time (I played it alongside my brother; I also had just about everything in 4 spoiled for me, a big twist spoiled in 5, and I also played the latter alone unlike the former two), but I also think it does the best job nailing its theming. P4 kinda awkwardly walks back on its message in some parts, and 5 does the same thing too in some really unfortunate "having their cake and eating it too" moments. P3 also does an amazing job with building up to its ending, which in P4 came a little out of left field (not too egregiously though for my tastes) and I found the pacing of P5's ending to be pretty bad even if I liked a lot of the stuff going on. Honestly, the stuff that holds it back is the gameplay, which 4 and 5 vastly improved on. However, the recent news about the dancing games showing off those beautiful new models and environments gives me hope for the definitive edition 3 current lacks, and definitely deserves.

Though I have to admit, after hitting P3 out of impulse, I've had second thoughts because P4's world and atmosphere is incredible, a small town murder mystery is so my jam and Inaba actually reminds me a lot of my hometown, so it definitely hits that nostalgia. However, I think P4 has too many problems for me to say it's my favorite; Yosuke is a miserable character, Teddie's often worse, and the handling of Kanji and especially Naoto really makes me cringe at times even if I like both of those characters a whole lot. But those problems definitely aren't enough to keep it from still being one of my favorite games of all time, which should say a lot.

It's probably clear by now, but I value story stuff and overall atmosphere/feeling more than gameplay, otherwise 5 would've been a clear winner (even though I kinda hated dungeon-crawling by the end). Though gameplay is also why I didn't pick either P2, because I would actually say that those games, especially combined, have my favorite story and characters out of the whole series, but man, there is nothing less appealing than going back to those clunky menus and atrocious random encounter rates. Say what you will about 3's combat aging, I would go back to that in a heartbeat (even with the AI party members!) over dealing with random encounters and the old contact system. Here's hoping for a remake that implements 5's combat! ...I can dream, can't I?

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#23 Posted by toowalrus (13403 posts) -

Something about 3 was just perfect, maybe it was just a time & place thing, but that just sticks out as one of my favorite games of all time. I... wish I could get the trailer for the dancing game out of my head, those characters have no business smiling.

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#24 Edited by TheWildCard (605 posts) -

P4G. Yeah, P5 is better mechanically (though I might quibble the margin is overstated), but P4 (and P3) has it beat in terms of characters, story, atmosphere, and especially theme (as well as music but that's especially subjective). I found myself more emotionally invested in P4's characters and material; it's no coincidence that the dungeon sequence I most remember is the one that feels most like a P4 dungeon.

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#25 Edited by kblosnack (268 posts) -

For me it's 5 > 3> 4, but I still need to play both 2 to be sure

edit: also, fuck 1

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#26 Posted by rariow (8 posts) -

I've not played 5 yet, but I have played all of the other ones. I'd say P4, easily. I mean, it's my favorite game of all time, so it's kind of to be expected. 1 is not a good game, both parts of 2 have jank that really bring them down, and I think 3 is essentially just a half-step towards making the great game that is 4 (4 really does just feel like a more polished version of 3 with the added benefit of much better writing, even if I think the setting is portrayed better in 3 FES). I'd argue that re-releases with extra content like FES or Golden aside, each game got better. I unfortunately do not currently own any PlayStation console though, but I am desperately saving up for a PS4 to play 5.

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#27 Posted by redwing42 (398 posts) -

Persona 3 was the game that really got me back into video games after kind of not playing much besides sports games for a couple of years. It was such a huge change from anything I had ever played, and the gameplay really meshed with the story in a way that I appreciated. I'm one of the few holdouts on supporting P3's decision to have AI controlled party members, but it completely made sense for the story they were telling. That said, I would love a P3 remake with the P5 systems added in, as P5 is an incredibly smooth experience. But the P3 cast is my favorite, the P3 story is by far my favorite, and the music has a slight edge on 5. I really enjoyed 4, but I think it is behind both 3 and 5.

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#28 Posted by ToTheNines (1630 posts) -

I enjoyed P3 Fez the most. But P4 holds a special place in my heart obviously because of the endurance run.

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#29 Posted by clagnaught (1879 posts) -

Persona 5 and Persona 4: Golden are really close for me. (Basically whichever one I like more is my favorite game of all time) It's sort of a flip of a coin.

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#30 Posted by TheLoyalTraitor (54 posts) -

Yosuke is a miserable character, Teddie's often worse, and the handling of Kanji and especially Naoto really makes me cringe at times even if I like both of those characters a whole lot.

For real, this is why I don't think that P4's characters are actually better than P5's. Yosuke's presence actively makes that game worse, especially during that fucking school campout. Kanji and Naoto are both really likable characters who are great ideas for characters in that game. Unfortunately, the game doesn't commit to making Kanji gay or making Naoto trans. Both those aspects of them just kinda fizzle out and don't go anywhere, and the characters are just left being moderately confused about themselves. And every time Yosuke says anything to Kanji I want to punch the screen.

That being said, what's wrong with Teddie? I actually really liked him.

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#31 Edited by Efesell (3349 posts) -

5>4>3 and then keep all the others away from me they've aged real bad.

@theloyaltraitor: Not committing with Kanji was always a shame but I don't know that they were really going for that with Naoto even quietly.

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#32 Posted by TechnoSyndrome (1460 posts) -

5 > 4 > 3. I've played a little bit of Innocent Sin and it seems cool, but not enough to rank it.

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#33 Posted by TheLoyalTraitor (54 posts) -

@efesell: Yeah she was more ambiguous. I didn't mind her as much because she's not, like, confused the entire game. Whatever her deal is, she seems comfortable with it. Kanji just feels like they forgot to make the part of the game when he comes to a conclusion about himself.

It wasn't completely terrible or anything, it just bugged me the whole time.

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#34 Posted by AlisterCat (7882 posts) -

Your first, probably.

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#35 Posted by Efesell (3349 posts) -

@theloyaltraitor: Well her whole thing read more of a big indictment about shitty misogyny in Japanese society and less about her own questions on identity. So it never seemed necessarily what she truly wanted but she wanted the respect and acknowledgement that men would have in the same field.

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#36 Posted by TheLoyalTraitor (54 posts) -

@efesell: That was definitely the main point of her gender stuff, but unless I'm misremembering it was heavily implied if not said outright that her TV show was her changing her sex. I'll grant you that even that could just be because she wanted to be respected in her field.

You're probably right, that was just how I read her situation. Might've been taking an extra leap in logic that Atlus never intended. I also just kinda wanted her to actually identify as a man cuz that would've been a cool thing to do in that game. Like I said, I was way less bothered by her than Kanji, and even that was relatively minor.

Just some small gripes that I think makes those characters not quite as fleshed out and well written as people seem to remember them.

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#37 Posted by Efesell (3349 posts) -

@theloyaltraitor: Oh yeah I think that was definitely the route the Shadow version went with, P4 was not big on subtlety with those segments.

There's probably plenty of room for further interpretation that I'm not strictly remembering so either way. It's similar with Kanji honestly but I think it would have just been a better arc if they had just stuck with it.

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#38 Posted by fisk0 (6623 posts) -

I'm really fond of the PSP/Vita version of Innocent Sin. Obviously I love 3 and 4 too, but I don't know, the isometric style works much better for me. I also loved the first person dungeons in Persona 1.

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#39 Posted by Redhotchilimist (2520 posts) -

@theloyaltraitor: I think that if you wanted Kanji to be gay and Naoto to be trans you're right to be disappointed, because they're both people who are bullied/looked down upon because of their image("I make dolls so everyone calls me gay, and also I think this girl in pants and a hat is hot so maybe I'm gay after all", and "I'm a woman(and also 15, gosh) in a male workforce environment so I don't get the respect I deserve"). But I never felt like they chickened out of anything. There are pretty clear problems and developments for both of those characters, they're just not what you're looking for if you want representation without headcanoning everything.

Doesn't Yosuke famously have cut content where he was supposed to be gay? I wish I had a source for that, but that's the resolution to his homophobic comments that makes the most sense to me. Not that I hate him as is. He's not the scum of the earth just because he's dumb.

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#40 Edited by Efesell (3349 posts) -

@redhotchilimist: Pre-release there was a very convincing if you didn't speak Japanese photoshop of Yosuke in one of Yukikos confessions I think that's where that idea came from. Never heard anything official though.

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#41 Posted by planetfunksquad (1509 posts) -

P4>5>2EP>3>2IS>1

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#42 Posted by Undeadpool (6359 posts) -

@afabs515 said:

In terms of gameplay and mechanics, it's 5 by a mile.

In terms of characters, plot, and writing in general, I don't think there's a game out there that will ever do more for me than Persona 4.

This.

I think Persona 5 doesn't/didn't get the credit it deserved for making the game itself MUCH more enthralling, both through its excellent combat systems AND making non-party S-Links a vital part of gameplay, buuuuuuuut...there is just SOMETHING special about Persona 4, and ESPECIALLY Golden. Honestly, adding that winter chapter that expounds on your chosen relationship AND introduces a one-off dungeon was a stroke of brilliance. I was hoping to see something like that in 5, but sadly no.

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#43 Posted by Markus1395 (64 posts) -

I only jumped on the series early last year with P4G, so it's not like I have heaps of nostalgia for the series- but I really think P4G is way, WAY better than 5. 5 is still fantastic, but 4 is incredible. I personally honestly didn't find any of the improvements to be necessarily that vital , and they certainly didn't outweigh what 5 got wrong compared to 4 (Characters, translation, and even setting for me).

Oh, and the Yosuke romance thing was totally real, and was cut so late in development that there was even English VO recorded for it, which can be found here. It's a bit vague in English, but, according to the SMT wiki, it was going to be more outright in Japanese.

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#44 Posted by Efesell (3349 posts) -

@markus1395: I mean that all seems like it could fit the same tone as the s.link as is but I guess there could be some truth to it all.

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#45 Posted by mgalchemist (78 posts) -

@theloyaltraitor:It honestly always baffles me when people defend Yosuke as "just poking fun at his friends" or "just like someone I grew up with". On the former, nah, the dude never apologizes when he clearly upsets others, and he also is very visibly uncomfortable with Kanji potentially being gay with zero sense of irony or humor. The latter's definitely a personal thing, but, uh, no, I wouldn't be okay with my friends saying the things he does, nor would I probably hang around him in the first place. It wouldn't be so bad if the game ever developed him out of this through dialogue, or let you chew him out. Also, as pointed about above, it's highly likely that Yosuke was originally gonna be a gay option, so if they fleshed that out instead, then he would've been a super interesting character! But nope, we got a lazy anime archetype instead.

Yeah, with Kanji my problem is definitely the lack of commitment; having him be openly gay or even bisexual would've made his character round out better, because I get that his arc is technically about gender issues and stereotypes, there's no denying that the dude definitely likes men to some extent. Of course going above and beyond would've been making him dateable, but...sigh.

My issue with Naoto is that what they have is good, but they bungled her immensely. Unfortunately some of this does stem from cultural differences and perceptions, but ultimately, her arc is of course also about fighting gender norms. Now look, if Atlus wants to make that the story, awesome, especially in a Japan setting where this stuff hits harder. But they mangled it by shoehorning in a crossdressing aspect that makes this look a whole lot more like a transgender story (which doesn't pan out and even has some pretty bad implications). Now if they wanted to commit to that, that'd also be great! But it's this awful mishmash that leads to no one winning.

Saying "Teddie's often worse" came off a little harsher than I intended, because I do like Teddie more than Yosuke. He has some legit great moments, I just got really sick of his hitting-on-girls shtick. It wasn't funny the first time, and it definitely wasn't funny the billionth, and it gets to a point where he brings up that stuff more than Yosuke does. I've also played like every P4 spin-offs, which more-or-less take away his good traits and emphasize his pervy moments.

Oops, that was a lot more than I intended to write. Sorry to folks just passing by, I just get really passionate about Persona 4's flaws because they take away from a game that does many other things so right.

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#46 Posted by BoccKob (471 posts) -

Of the Personas I've played, I liked 4 more than 3 or 5. I've really liked what I've read about Persona 2, but I get the feeling I wouldn't like the actual mechanics of playing it.

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#47 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (7684 posts) -

I chose 3 mainly because it was my first and I had a special experience playing it. It's a wonderful game among other wonderful games.

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#48 Posted by afabs515 (1967 posts) -

@theloyaltraitor: I'm on my phone, so I can't quote, but to address your point about the group texts, I absolutely hated that. Some of those conversations had great dialogue, but there were just so freaking many. And throughout each arc, like every night your party would text like clockwork saying "Hey, maybe we should go in the dungeon!" Or "Man, I hope that stuff we did in the dungeon worked!" Over and over and over. I'm a millennial myself, and in high school, college, and now at work, no one I know texted/texts that much. In 4, you would get maybe one or two quick calls/week if you hadn't done the dungeon, at which point Charlie would flip the phone shut and not care. The party members in 5 came across as clingy and insecure to me as a result of their constant texting. After the second dungeon, I triangled my way through basically every text conversation.

Additionally, to me, the texts only further highlighted the problems with the localization. To me, the texts felt perfectly translated and localized, while some of the voiced lines in the main plot scenes certainly didn't. Assuming Altus hired the same amount of translators, it's easy to imagine a scenario in which they cut the amount of text conversations in half and put that effort into the story scenes to arrive at a localization on par or even superior to 4. I always got the impression that they had way too much text to localize, so they prioritized the team's conversations over the adults' lines, which is a shame since they're the primary focus of the dungeons this time around.

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#49 Edited by JohnTunoku (395 posts) -

I think it's easy to say it has to be five because of all the mechanical additions and the better integration of social links into the combat side of things. But I really don't like some of the additions is the thing, the gun is on the whole not a terribly interesting addition, demon negotiation is annoying and kind of feeling obligated to max certain links because of how powerful the bonuses are is just kind of a bummer. The story started compelling but kind of got less interesting as it went on, the end being by far the worst part of the game for me. The visuals are beautiful on the whole but certain areas (looking at you mementos) are just painful to look at after you've been there a while. While I'm on that subject, to hell with mementos, get that shit out of here. I honestly like it even less then tartarus because of how ugly it is, those side quests were great and all but they weren't worth this zone's existence. I really thought I'd never see another big grind pit after 4.

I really enjoyed how chill, simple and well balanced 4 was. Looking back there are definitely some flaws but in so many different ways that game was just a breath of fresh air. The fun and not so serious murder mystery plot, the homey feel of Inaba, the crazy weird TV world (which I much prefer to the metaverse), the authentic (if a bit too anime at times) high school cast. JRPGs are so often set in such ludicrous and unrelatable places with equally ludicrous and unrelatable characters and everyone always seems so grim and over serious it was great to experience a game that was going for something that felt like the opposite of that.

3 has one of the best final acts in video games and a very well told story about tragedy and death. But the combat is rough, only 2 of the characters really stuck with me and Tartarus is a miserable slog. It's a game I appreciate more then I like and I was forcing myself to finish it at a certain point.

I hope to one day get around to 2-1 and 2-2 and I expect I will never play through 1.

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#50 Posted by Teddie (2029 posts) -

Yeah, with Kanji my problem is definitely the lack of commitment; having him be openly gay or even bisexual would've made his character round out better, because I get that his arc is technically about gender issues and stereotypes, there's no denying that the dude definitely likes men to some extent. Of course going above and beyond would've been making him dateable, but...sigh.

Saying "Teddie's often worse" came off a little harsher than I intended, because I do like Teddie more than Yosuke. He has some legit great moments, I just got really sick of his hitting-on-girls shtick. It wasn't funny the first time, and it definitely wasn't funny the billionth, and it gets to a point where he brings up that stuff more than Yosuke does. I've also played like every P4 spin-offs, which more-or-less take away his good traits and emphasize his pervy moments.

To the stuff with Kanji, I hate this stance. The dude's 15, why does he need a perfectly defined sexuality at that age? He was a great character for me because I was in the same situation when I played the game, but every time he's the subject of discussion suddenly it's weak that they ended up making a character I could relate to instead of a strictly gay or bisexual character.

In regards to Teddie, if you'll ignore my username for a second, I think all the spinoffs may have skewed your perspective of him a little. The hitting on girls thing isn't all that frequent, and it's more of another point towards his "faking everything to be normal" persona he's got going on. Why they made that one element of his entire act the sticking point for the spinoffs is beyond me.

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