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    PlayStation 3

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    The PlayStation 3 (often abbreviated PS3) is the third home video game console created and released by Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.

    Mandatory Installs, what say you?

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    Randolph

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    #1  Edited By Randolph

    This has been a pretty hot topic on other forums, may as well get it over here too.  Is this a problem for you?  I know a lot of people will point out that you can change the HDD, but what bums me out is that because of these bloated installs, it's becoming less of a hella cool option, and more of a requirement.  Because when you combine that installs with large PSN game libraries, PSone classics, and the installs... well suddenly just two or three of them has you scraping the bottom of the 60GB launch HDDs barrel, so to speak.  I plan to get Siren this week, which is said to total out at 9GB if you download them all at once, or over time.  So now I'm looking at possibly passing on buying the PS3 version of SC4, because of it's hefty install, unless I upgrade. (and I'd rather not do so)

    Considering my HDD is being used for game related things only, thats pretty discouraging.  I just don't get how a stellar showcase for the system like Uncharted runs as smoothly as it does with only a temporary cache, while lower quality games in terms of graphics intensity are gobbling up upwards of 5GB of space.  You'd think it would be the other way around, right?  But anyway, looks like I'll be spending money I don't want to spend whether I like it or not.  Which is kinda lame.  I would have preferred paying yet more upfront for an even bigger HDD if this was going to start happening, or that Sony make their own PS3 specific ones that are as easy as "pull out old, put in new" with a transfer cable to boot, or something. (as opposed to performing surgery with another one)  Bah.

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    Chaos_Bladez

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    #2  Edited By Chaos_Bladez

    I couldn't care less. It makes the game run better and that's great.
    I have 9 games for my PS3 (save and game data), most of my music (1400 tracks), some demos, & about 40 HD videos on my PS3 and I still have 20 gigs left in my 60 gig.

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    Turtlemayor333

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    #3  Edited By Turtlemayor333

    I only have a 40 gig so I'm shaking in my boots a little bit. Between Oblivion and MGS4 a fourth of my hard drive is gone just like that. I'm not as familiar with the PS3 as I am with other consoles, so what makes a game like Uncharted so different that it needs no installs and runs just as smoothly? I thought it was just an issue with Blu Ray drive speed.

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    large_soda

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    #4  Edited By large_soda

    It doesn't bother me at all, but it's a valid point when someone makes an issue about it.  I just see the positive in it, and that is typically better performance.

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    davecuk

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    #5  Edited By davecuk

    I suppose if you have a 20 or 40 GB PS3 with no intention of changing the hard drive then it can be a problem. As for myself, well I don't care as I have upgraded to a 320GB hard drive.

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    MCWHAMMER

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    #6  Edited By MCWHAMMER

    I like your points.  I haven't paid as much attention to my HD Capacity as maybe I should (Probably because I'm scared to check how much space certain games are taking up).  What I like about PSN though is that you can delete games for a while and download them again later if you are really dying for space.  Yeah, it's a hassle, but it's one option.

    I guess, my deal is, if I know I am done with a game, I might delete it from my hard drive, sell it off.  So, it doesn't become as much of an issue.  I agree that with more and more PSN games on the way, suddenly 60 GB seems like it will run out.  That's scary to think, and I can't say that a lot of people are going to be swapping drives willingly.

    I totally agree though, Uncharted is one of the best-looking (Not to mention best playing) games on PS3, and it handles the pressure without a problem.  And look at Resistance... I haven't heard about Resistance 2, but look at all of what's happening onscreen in Resistance without a big install.

    I'd be interested to hear more thoughts on the issue, and if people are running out of space on their various systems.  i know Wii owners are hurting.

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    Randolph

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    #7  Edited By Randolph
    Large_Soda said:
    "It doesn't bother me at all, but it's a valid point when someone makes an issue about it.  I just see the positive in it, and that is typically better performance.
    "
    But how do we know the performance is better?  At launch, a few games had an optional install, and none of them ran much better with it, than without it.  Unless we can see the games running without them, we can't know for sure.  Because I cannot for the life of me understand how a port of Lost Planet and Hot Shots Golf need 5GB installs when RFOM and Uncharted do not.  Then you have Burnout and Ratchet, which have minimal at best installs, and also have insane amounts of stuff going on at any given time.  The only multiplat game with one I've seen a worthwhile gain in performance from is Oblivion.  So my ability to give these people the benefit of the doubt on this matter is approaching absolutely nill.  It won't be an issue for me much longer, as I plan to upgrade soon.  I just wish I was upgrading because I wanted too, not because I felt compelled to.
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    kieran_smith5

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    #8  Edited By kieran_smith5

    It is a part of the next generation and we just have to deal with it.

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    Randolph

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    #9  Edited By Randolph
    Kieran_Smith5 said:
    "It is a part of the next generation and we just have to deal with it.
    "
    Well, it's part of one half of the next generation.  Then, not even all of that half, in fact, surprisingly, not even the bulk of the better of that half.  If this is just a requirement for next gen PS3 gaming, it makes the fact that the best showcase of the systems abilities, Uncharted, doesn't even have one, all that much more bizarre.  Unless you think a poor port of Lost Planet is more next gen than Uncharted.
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    thelastguy

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    #10  Edited By thelastguy

    It is not a big deal.  I just need to get a bigger harddrive

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    Ezzy

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    #11  Edited By Ezzy

    i need a biggr harddrive my 40gb well 27gb, i know some of the hardrive is taken up but 13gb you gotta be kidding

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    ltcoljaxson

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    #12  Edited By ltcoljaxson
    thelastguy said:
    "It is not a big deal.  I just need to get a bigger harddrive
    "

    Yep. And also you can delete game installs from the Game Utility folder. Then you have almost unlimited space!
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    Myzer

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    #13  Edited By Myzer

    Never been worried by it. Only have a 40Gb, and I'll upgrade the HDD if/when I need to.

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    DaveF

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    #14  Edited By DaveF

    I don't mind them. Even if you only get 10 hours out of a game (I usually get at least 20), as a percentage of your gaming time, a ten minute install isn't bad, if it makes the game run better. I see your point about the first games not having huge installs and still running fine, but were those games pushing the PS3's limits? I seriously doubt MGS4 could run as well as it does if it didn't install. And most sites said the PS3 had slightly shorter loading times than the 360 version. Oblivion on PS3 runs smoother as well I heard.
    Then again, I have plenty of space because I don't plan on downloading any games, partyl out of lack of interest, mostly due to a monthly bandwidth cap of 12Gb.

    I'll be interested to see how the 360 feature will work where you can copy the contents of the disc onto the HDD.

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    Xelloss

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    #15  Edited By Xelloss

    I think its alright, but it can be annoying if you want to play a game right away and have to wait for it install.  But if the game loads faster and gives a better framerate I am all for it.  However I don't like how MGS4 does the installs per act, because you have to sit through an install if you want to play an different act each time. I would rather have just one install.

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    Jackel2072

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    #16  Edited By Jackel2072

    I say bring on the installs! i have 0 problem with them. it just makes everything run smoother. less load times and disc spin is a good thing!

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    Dolphin_Butter

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    #17  Edited By Dolphin_Butter

    I accept them only if the install gets rid of loading eventually (Devil May Cry 4) as opposed to keeping up with the 360's load times (Grand Theft Auto IV).

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    Randolph

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    #18  Edited By Randolph
    DaveF said:
    "I see your point about the first games not having huge installs and still running fine, but were those games pushing the PS3's limits? "
    Is Lost Planet and Hot Shots Golf?  No.  But they both have large 5GB installs.  Uncharted does push the PS3 past previously known or theorized limits though, and it has only a temporary cache.  Which is why it amazes me this problem exists at all.
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    Juxiang

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    #19  Edited By Juxiang

    It's getting pretty annoying for me. Worst of all, the installs are becoming "sit and wait at an install screen." Smackdown vs Raw 2008, for example, has a 2GB install but it does it while playing the game.

    But yeah, when I see the best looking/launch games on the system having no install to barely noticeable installs (less than 200mb), I really have to question why a 5GB install is necessary.

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    Randolph

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    #20  Edited By Randolph
    Juxiang said:
    "But yeah, when I see the best looking/launch games on the system having no install to barely noticeable installs (less than 200mb), I really have to question why a 5GB install is necessary.
    "
    Exactly my point.  This really is something we should question.
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    DaveF

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    #21  Edited By DaveF
    Randolph said:
    "DaveF said:
    "I see your point about the first games not having huge installs and still running fine, but were those games pushing the PS3's limits? "
    Is Lost Planet and Hot Shots Golf?  No.  But they both have large 5GB installs.  Uncharted does push the PS3 past previously known or theorized limits though, and it has only a temporary cache.  Which is why it amazes me this problem exists at all.
    "
    That's true. Maybe it has something to do with how big the environments are, or the physics and textures etc....then again there's Uncharted, like you said. I guess the installs must be doing something, or they wouldn't bother with them. Assuming this is true, then I still prefer to have installs if it makes the game better somehow.
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    joseppie

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    #22  Edited By joseppie

    Isn't it still a minor issue? I know it's kind of annoying but it helps, so it seems very trivial to me. MGS4's mini-installs didn't make much sense but besides that, meh.

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    Randolph

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    #23  Edited By Randolph

    It really would have been better to have the MGS4 install done all at once, but I chalk that up to Kojima's usual quirkiness.  The first time through it wasn't so bad, but re-installing each act upon replaying?  Thats not cool.

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    Leone

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    #24  Edited By Leone

    Like others, I've had gripes with MGS4- I'm kind of hoping Konami sends out a patch that just tells the game to install the acts and get it over with, because the first time through I was alright with it, but when I realized I had to do it again as soon as I went back to other acts, I was kind of like "What the?"

    With the introduction of the Video store, I'm definitely considering a Hard Drive upgrade much more seriously, because I don't head out to the movies all that often, so I think that rental (and purchase) feature might get a lot of attention from me, and those will easily eat up gigs of space, so that compounded with the numerous game installs out there- whether from a disk or the PSN, I'm starting to feel it even on my 80GB model.

    I wish games like Gran Turismo would run without the disk, given that they have a PSN counterpart that WILL run without the disk- because I'm installing some 1.2GB of game data if I recall correctly, but I'm still required to have my disk around- but if I used my credit card instead, I'd be allowed to not worry about the disk? That seems a bit off. I kind of wish Metal Gear Online also didn't need the MGS4 disk, seeing as how that installs and patches separately from MGS4.

    What did irk me is the Ratchet and Clank bug you may or may not be familiar with- having to figure out what I wanted to delete only to go and reinstall was somewhat annoying just to get the game to run.

    Oh and let's not forget about free demos- all easily pushing a GB each. Better finish those quickly and not expect friends to play 'em.

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    Katatonic

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    #25  Edited By Katatonic

    I can see why it gets annoying, but ultimately I can't think of a better way to do it.  I'm kind of used to it since I've been playing WoW for awhile and it forces you to install updates.  However, I think if they could somehow make it so you could tailor you ps3 to only download updates that you think would be useful for you, that would be helpful.

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    whoozwah

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    #26  Edited By whoozwah

    I like the idea. It doesn't really bother me too much since like the TC says, you can replace the hard drive.

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    speciman

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    #27  Edited By speciman

    You choose:
    Do you wanna install and wait 2-3 secs between different scenes to play ?
    OR
    Do not install and wait for over 30 secs ??

    Your call!

    Excuse me .. but time is money bro. I choose the first one!

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    normajean777

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    #28  Edited By normajean777

    doesnt bother me but i do wonder why uncharted didnt have a huge install

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    absinthetic

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    #29  Edited By absinthetic

    i really dont see what the big deal is with installs

    Game developers are working around this by taking a more pro-active approach to Blu-Ray’s data transfer technology. Some devs are working with streaming methods that load data while your playing, others are duplicating frequent required data around the disc so it can be located and loaded up faster. Once they have implemented this, it is understood that in the future, game installs for the Playstation 3 will be a thing of the past.

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    LouChou

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    #30  Edited By LouChou

    It annoys me when I spend fucking ages installing only to still encounter loading sections. If you're going to install on my system, then I expect that shit to be cartridge-quick - no loading times whatsoever.

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    Buzzer_Beater

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    #31  Edited By Buzzer_Beater

    I'm ok with it. I just hope it doesn't take up my whole HDD!!

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    matthew

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    #32  Edited By matthew

    I just checked out newegg when I saw this forum topic, and a 120 gig drive costs just as much as a game does guys.  Ya'll could just wait another week or two to get that game, and spend the budgeted game money on a new drive, and theoretically triple your hard drive space.

    I'm totally in the camp of pre-game installs.  I have a history of gaming on the pc, so I have absolutly have no problem with the install.  Just read the manual, get a drink, take a leak, whathaveyou.  Even in MGS4, the mid game installs are kinda nice, to give you a breather from the pure awesomeness that is MGS4.

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    Buzzer_Beater

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    #33  Edited By Buzzer_Beater

    Just hopefully future games won't have 4-5GB installs, cause then everyone would need bigger HDD's.

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    DaWhiteAsian

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    #34  Edited By DaWhiteAsian

    THIS TOPIC SUCKS 

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    thelastguy

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    #35  Edited By thelastguy
    DaWhiteAsian said:
    "THIS TOPIC SUCKS "
    Then why are you posting in it?
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    Shadow2K6

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    #36  Edited By Shadow2K6

    I don't think its really problem unless you have a 20GB or 40 GB and are unwilling to upgrade.  I have a 60 GB and after all the games installs, downloadable games, videos, etc I still have 29 GB left.

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    sizu

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    #37  Edited By sizu

    I have no issue at all with the installs.  Been installing games on my pc since year zero, so why would it bother me now.  The installation process doesn't take long, and can be easily done when you are doing something else e.g. tv, dinnner etc etc.

    The only people I have found who have a problem with it are forum trolls with nothing better to do than wind up gamers who enjoy playing on the PS3.  Unfortunately for them now they are having to say installation is a good idea since MS have announced a similar idea for the 360.

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    legionvsninja

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    #38  Edited By legionvsninja

    I have a 60GB hard drive in my PS3, a launch unit, but I really don't have much on it at the moment.  I've always assumed that I would upgrade my hard drives size at some point, but I am holding off for two reasons.  First, its simply not full.  Second, hard drives get larger and cheaper the longer I'm able to hold out on buying a new one.  I do worry, however, about a day in the future where I will want to download a new game off of the PSN only to realize that I do not have the room for it.  It doesn't seem like a problem now, nor does it seem like we'll have a problem in the next 12-18 months.  But, after that, we could very well see more and more gamers running into storage difficulties. 

    So, game developers, please try to keep in mind that those Blu-Ray discs hold 50GBs of data.  Don't take the easy way out and try to store data on my hard drive just to make things easier for yourselves.  The PS3 is pretty damn powerful, surely you can find a way to avoid using my hard drive.

    Lastly, are these installs entirely performance related?  Or, is there form of DRM being used with these installs?

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    RVonE

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    #39  Edited By RVonE

    Whatever it takes for the game to run more smooth, I'll take it. It really doesn't bother me because it just takes a little bit of time and then you're good to go.

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    NinjaMunkey

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    #40  Edited By NinjaMunkey

    Installs are good. They make the games better.

    Devs use them loads because its an easy way of reducing load times, it makes the job much easier for them, from their viewpoint, installs are great.

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    Robobie

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    #41  Edited By Robobie

    meh... if they make the game more enjoyable them I'm cool with it.

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    NotaStalker

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    #42  Edited By NotaStalker

    I have a 40gb ps3 and have no problem what-so-ever with the installs.

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    ROBdaMOB

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    #43  Edited By ROBdaMOB

    the only install i found dumb was dmc4
    other than that delete game installs of games your not playing
    and demos you really shouldnt have too many of those just delete them
    I have a 60 gig i was down around to 15 gigs of space left and did a little clean up and boom back at 30/55 gigs
    im not to worried although i do wish i had maybe 80 or 120

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    mrzeal

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    #44  Edited By mrzeal

    I have 7 games (data & saves ), about 10 game trailers and 2 or 3 movies... If I want to see a movie, I use NeroMediaHome and play it through my PS3... that's SO cool! :)

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    efrucht

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    #45  Edited By efrucht

    The install on MGS4 was a life-saver! The load times in that game were brought down to about 3 seconds each, thanks to the install! If they were any longer, it would mess up the flow of the game.

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    sketch

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    #46  Edited By sketch

    Mandatory installs equal tea drinkin' time. I'm really not bothered.

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    Randolph

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    #47  Edited By Randolph
    speciman said:
    "You choose:
    Do you wanna install and wait 2-3 secs between different scenes to play ?
    OR
    Do not install and wait for over 30 secs ??

    Your call!

    Excuse me .. but time is money bro. I choose the first one!
    "
    Thats a bit of an overstatement.  No game with an optional install gets anywhere near that kind of boost in loading, and the multiplat games that have an install tend to barely be two or three seconds faster than their counterpart on the 360, and if you need 5GBs of my HDD to give me a two to three second edge, well, I'd rather have the option of waiting the extra two to three seconds, and having that much more space for all of these PSN titles coming down the pike.  Like I said before, it's cool if they really need the install, but the need to prove they need it, and if the performance gain is minimal, it needs to be wholly optional.  Sega is on record now saying all PS3 games by them will have optional installs, for which I am thankful.  I'd like to see other devs take that approach, and give HDD misers like myself the ability to keep seeing the swappable HDDs as a cool option, rather than as a requirement to maintain basic console convenience.
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    Boyd89

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    #48  Edited By Boyd89

    I hope they get shorter but it doesn't look to be going that way.

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    Randolph

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    #49  Edited By Randolph
    normajean777 said:
    "doesnt bother me but i do wonder why uncharted didnt have a huge install
    "
    I do as well, then a crazy game like Burnout Paradise, which had PS3 as it's lead platform, also didn't have a HUGE install, despite having much more going on in game at any time than a game like Hot Shots Golf, (which is first party no less) which leads me to wondering just why these are being used, least of all being made mandatory.  Let ME, the end user, the customer, decide if the install performance gain is worth the lost HDD space.  Because in no previous PS3 game that offered that choice, was any noteworthy gain found.  I'd like to give devs the benefit of the doubt, but when DMC and Lost Planet need 5GBs, and Uncharted, Resistance, and Burnout Paradise don't, well... Houston, we have a problem.

    Anyhoo, gonna try to find a HDD again today, yesterday storms knocked out the traffic lights in town, and Circuit City is a nightmare to get in and out of as is.
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    SolidusMaximus

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    #50  Edited By SolidusMaximus

    I don't see a problem with installing unless you the kinda person who has loads of different games on the go. If you are then  this might cause you  to have to uninstall one game  to install another  due to a lack of space.

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