bigsocrates

I completely disagree that every single game fits one of these archtypes unless you're being incredibly broad with "open world game with RPG elements" to include games like Forza Horizon 5 (no real RPG elements) or Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart (not really an open world game and minimal RPG elements.)

There's more diversity of games than ever. If you look at the Game Awards Game of the Year nominees the most represented genre is 3D Platformers for some reason. There are sports games and visual novels and weird puzzle games and every kind of game imaginable.

Sure Deckbuilders and Roguelites have become more common in the indie space recently (open world games with RPG elements have been around forever) but Sony is still making its Cinematic games, Microsoft is still making its mainstays, Nintendo is still making whatever it wants (we got a new Pokemon Snap and a port of Cruis'n Blast this year) and EA and Activision are still making their shooters and sports games and what have you.

I feel like whatever your favorite genre is there's good stuff coming out right now.

@csl316: In terms of graphical fidelity and environmental complexity it's a quantum step forward, but yes, as a game, I don't think it lives up to their prior products. It's not nearly as mechanically complex or polished.

They went from making top tier indie games to a middle tier AA game.

@magnetphonics: Trying to be prescriptivist with language never works. Roguelike means what it means at this point and insisting that it means what it used to mean is as pointless as insisting that "shooters" are 2D space ship games and not 3D first or third person games. You can try, but it's an inherently losing battle. That's why dictionaries describe how words are used instead of trying to enforce top down compliance with old meanings.

The feature OP is doing on Modern roguelikes and he specifically asked what was missing from his list. As it turns out the list is missing the most foundational games in what the genre has become, while containing games that aren't really Roguelikes at all like Chasm and Children of Morta. That's OP's business but he solicited feedback. It would be absurd to suggest Rogue as a "modern Roguelike" just like it would be absurd to suggest A Trip to the Moon as a modern film, even if both are foundational works in their respective media.

As for the suggestion that Rogue didn't influence Spelunky, I don't really know where it comes from but it's clearly wrong, even if that influence is not a straight line. Rogue is one of those games, like Street Fighter II, that has powerfully influenced entire genres and subgenres. Spelunky specifically draws on many of Rogue's core elements, though of course it also has many other influences as well. Spelunky is also, for example, a platformer, so it was clearly heavily influenced by Super Mario Bros. too.

@csl316: I can see the similarities but I think the biggest difference is that SteamWorld Dig 1, while being easy and chill like you say, was still focused around its gameplay and the paths you dug and the collection aspect etc... With The Gunk the focus is more on the aesthetics and story (and there's a ton more story than Steamworld Dig 1 had.) Obviously Steamworld Dig 1 is more focused on action and The Gunk is more 'puzzle' oriented, but they're both kind of about changing the state of the game world as you go and leaving your mark on the environment so they share that connection.

You're correct in that both games are kind of relaxing easygoing experiences without a ton of stress. I think that the gist of what you're saying, that they should be approached in a similar state of mind and evoke a similar mood is largely true.

@av_gamer: It's one thing to say "it's not for me, I don't like it" and another to say "I don't get why someone would want to pay a subscription fee."

Because it's worth it to them?

If you play 50 hours of FF XIV per month then it's great value. Certainly cheaper per hour than paying for 5 separate 10 hour games. And there's an absolute ton of content in it, constant updates, a complex guild system etc...

What's so hard to understand? It's a model that has been around for like 25 years. You pay a monthly fee for the servers and the constant development, and in return you get a game that you can sink literally thousands of hours into. When they drop huge expansions that are the size of multiple full games (not just little 6 hour things like the Spider-Man DLC) they charge full game price for it.

You don't have to want to consume games like that, I am not signed up for any MMOs right now, but it's not a difficult concept to see why it appeals to some people, for whom it can be their whole gaming life. $15 a month for all your gaming needs is a bargain!

@magnetphonics: There's nothing "hypocritical" about pointing out that modern roguelikes are a genre more or less created by a few very influential titles from the early 2010s. Obviously Rogue is the true genesis of the genre, and there have been games that were heavily influenced by it ever since, such as the various Mystery Dungeon series, but Binding of Isaac and then Spelunky and Rogue Legacy are responsible for the subsequent explosion in the genre. They took the roguelike concept and expanded it to genres where it hadn't traditionally been present, and their popularity led to a massive increase in the variety and number of the games produced.

Every video game builds on what came before, but just like if you wanted to examine modern shmups you wouldn't have to start with Space Invaders you don't need to start with Rogue to look at modern Roguelikes.

It would be odd to do a feature on the modern Schmup scene without looking at the Treasure and Cave games that have heavily influenced so much of what the current scene is like though.

Final Fantasy XIV is officially the only game to be taken off the market for being too bad (when they pulled it down to retool it for A Realm Reborn) and ALSO for being too good (Endwalker.)

That's a distinction no other game is going to achieve for a very long time.

@laughingman: Almost all of these are on the Switch.

I honestly don't see how you can do a feature on modern roguelikes and not do foundational games like Rogue Legacy. Spelunky is also kind of a must for similar reasons. That's like doing a feature on FPS games and not including Duke Nukem 3D.

Also...Binding of Isaac? Nowhere Prophet and Rad over Binding of Isaac is...a choice.

Also where are Nuclear Throne, Neon Abyss, Into the Pit, Ziggurat, Immortal Redneck and Curse of the Dead Gods?

Do you even Ziggurat bro? Clearly you don't. But then again you don't Immortal Redneck either.

ETA: WAIT?!??! ROGUE LEGACY ISN'T EVEN ON HERE?

CRYPT OF THE NECRODANCER?

Flinthook? What do you have against Flinthook?

Slay the Spire but no Monster Train = FAKE NEWS!!!!!