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essaregee

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Mass Effect needs Mecha - Space Combat!

Okay, so most of you know me as an otaku or someone really obsessed with anime, both of which are true, however I have had a revolutionary new idea that should make Mass Effect 2 even cooler (and perhaps carry over into ME3); Mecha! 
Now, coming form someone who has seen every Gundam series as well as pretty much every other series with mecha in it (Code Geass, Evangalion), and played mecha inspired games such as my all time favorite - Shogo and Xenosaga (EP 1, 2, 3), this might sound like a biased statement, well I will try to make it as unbiased as possible. 
 
The Mass Effect Universe seems like a sprawling intergalactic community, complete with many armed nations ready to fight with another. With all the innovative technology, such as the Normandy, and other Capital Ships (such as the Asari Ascension)m but why no mechs - or MCA (Mobile Combat Armor)? It would make perfect scene to have sections where a heavy mech would be required to get past a certain level, such as the MAKO sections in ME1. 

This fits right in... 
This fits right in... 
The mech to the left is the Gundam 00 Exia Avalanche variant. I can totally foresee Shepard piloting something like that. It doesnt have to necessarily be that mech, it could be a host of others (say ones from Armored Core or something) but you get my point. 
You have to assult a heavily armored base, and you need extra firepower, as well as mobility, you could use one of these.  
There are a lot to chose from, and just like the MAKO you don't have to stick a choice of 20 for the player to pilot, but I bet it would add a lot of interesting aspects to the gameplay. The mecha also fit into perfect context and would not break the gameplay at all. 
 
"Whoa, hold on there! ME2 already has mecha!" is what some of you are saying; well yes, that is completely true, but the mecha aren't pilotable, and are more like a robot. However even one of that size would do - think of it as not a giant 20 meter mech, but rather mobile combat armor, which is exactly what it would be. It would not be too hard to implement into the game, just change a few models, and add  some new player animations, the ones where they are getting into the mechs - now that annimation can be left out all together, but why not have it?   
The Loki Mech 
The Loki Mech 
 
The picture on the left is the Loki mech I have mentioned prior to this. 
Now, that's my take on mechs in this game, they should be there, and it would make a great addition to the ME universe, I doubt we will see them, but you never know, perhaps we will see some DLC about that in the future. 
 
 
 
  
My next topic of interest is space combat. I remember the good 'ol days of KOTOR and KOTOR 2, when flying from planet to planet, you were confronted with a turret scene where you were forced to use a turret (woa! I know) to defend the Ebon Hawk (the starship that was used in both the games). 
Now turret defense is bland, and very old, so I think there should be some sort of space combat (aha! With the mechs!) that has you defending the Normandy SR2 from baddies. Now giving it some further thought, it might not be the best idea to do gameplay wise. Since space is more of a 3D environment, how would the player control a spaceship or what ever they were using to fight of enemies (also QTE are not helping). If fighters were implemented, it would mean having a totally new game play mechanic on controlling fighter craft, but is prone to some negative feedback, as users would have to learn how to fly. Now I am all for the Freelancer style of space combat (Freelancer is a space combat sin from the 2000s, not sure what year, but it was pretty good)., however people would argue that it can break the gameplay. Sure, they say the Normandy can't be attacked, but they are missing a few critical points. a) Normandy SR1 was destroyed b) the stealth systems are incapable of being run 100% of the time, and lastly c) the Normandy SR1 was blown to bits. 
 
Well that's all that I have to say right now. At the current time I am trying to finish up ME1 (again, for the too many-ith time to count) so I have a desired character going into mass effect 2. 
 
Cheers and enjoy reading!
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essaregee

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Edited By essaregee

Okay, so most of you know me as an otaku or someone really obsessed with anime, both of which are true, however I have had a revolutionary new idea that should make Mass Effect 2 even cooler (and perhaps carry over into ME3); Mecha! 
Now, coming form someone who has seen every Gundam series as well as pretty much every other series with mecha in it (Code Geass, Evangalion), and played mecha inspired games such as my all time favorite - Shogo and Xenosaga (EP 1, 2, 3), this might sound like a biased statement, well I will try to make it as unbiased as possible. 
 
The Mass Effect Universe seems like a sprawling intergalactic community, complete with many armed nations ready to fight with another. With all the innovative technology, such as the Normandy, and other Capital Ships (such as the Asari Ascension)m but why no mechs - or MCA (Mobile Combat Armor)? It would make perfect scene to have sections where a heavy mech would be required to get past a certain level, such as the MAKO sections in ME1. 

This fits right in... 
This fits right in... 
The mech to the left is the Gundam 00 Exia Avalanche variant. I can totally foresee Shepard piloting something like that. It doesnt have to necessarily be that mech, it could be a host of others (say ones from Armored Core or something) but you get my point. 
You have to assult a heavily armored base, and you need extra firepower, as well as mobility, you could use one of these.  
There are a lot to chose from, and just like the MAKO you don't have to stick a choice of 20 for the player to pilot, but I bet it would add a lot of interesting aspects to the gameplay. The mecha also fit into perfect context and would not break the gameplay at all. 
 
"Whoa, hold on there! ME2 already has mecha!" is what some of you are saying; well yes, that is completely true, but the mecha aren't pilotable, and are more like a robot. However even one of that size would do - think of it as not a giant 20 meter mech, but rather mobile combat armor, which is exactly what it would be. It would not be too hard to implement into the game, just change a few models, and add  some new player animations, the ones where they are getting into the mechs - now that annimation can be left out all together, but why not have it?   
The Loki Mech 
The Loki Mech 
 
The picture on the left is the Loki mech I have mentioned prior to this. 
Now, that's my take on mechs in this game, they should be there, and it would make a great addition to the ME universe, I doubt we will see them, but you never know, perhaps we will see some DLC about that in the future. 
 
 
 
  
My next topic of interest is space combat. I remember the good 'ol days of KOTOR and KOTOR 2, when flying from planet to planet, you were confronted with a turret scene where you were forced to use a turret (woa! I know) to defend the Ebon Hawk (the starship that was used in both the games). 
Now turret defense is bland, and very old, so I think there should be some sort of space combat (aha! With the mechs!) that has you defending the Normandy SR2 from baddies. Now giving it some further thought, it might not be the best idea to do gameplay wise. Since space is more of a 3D environment, how would the player control a spaceship or what ever they were using to fight of enemies (also QTE are not helping). If fighters were implemented, it would mean having a totally new game play mechanic on controlling fighter craft, but is prone to some negative feedback, as users would have to learn how to fly. Now I am all for the Freelancer style of space combat (Freelancer is a space combat sin from the 2000s, not sure what year, but it was pretty good)., however people would argue that it can break the gameplay. Sure, they say the Normandy can't be attacked, but they are missing a few critical points. a) Normandy SR1 was destroyed b) the stealth systems are incapable of being run 100% of the time, and lastly c) the Normandy SR1 was blown to bits. 
 
Well that's all that I have to say right now. At the current time I am trying to finish up ME1 (again, for the too many-ith time to count) so I have a desired character going into mass effect 2. 
 
Cheers and enjoy reading!
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Lowbrow

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Edited By Lowbrow

Please sweet mother of God no.

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nanikore

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Edited By nanikore

Mechs suck. That is all.

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Jadeskye

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Edited By Jadeskye

It just wouldn't fit the fiction.

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Icemael

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Edited By Icemael

I like Mass Effect. I like mechas. 
 
I hate the idea of mechas in Mass Effect.

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crystalskull2

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Edited By crystalskull2

Mechs-no.

But Star wars battlefront 2 like space combat  would be awesome.

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SteamPunkJin

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Edited By SteamPunkJin

I always thought that 'Loki Mecha' was just a super beefy Geth, kind of like the new Destroyers

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evanbrau

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Edited By evanbrau
@essaregee: No it would make it shit and insert ridiculous Japanese crap into a very Western game, while we're at it maybe Shepherd and co can go and kill god/be fifteen/have spikey hair/have terrible character design. It wouldn't fit in with the style or tone of Mass Effect at all.
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demigonis

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Edited By demigonis
@essaregee said:
however I have had a revolutionary new idea that should make Mass Effect 2 even cooler (and perhaps carry over into ME3); Mecha!
In your attempt to make your thread sound interesting you started it with a blatant lie. Mecha are not revolutionary, nor are they new.
 
I find that Mecha can be cool, but I don't really see why Mass Effect would need Mecha added to it... other then to feed someone's idea of:
 
Designer #1: "OH MAN! LETS ADD MECHA TO MASS EFFECT!!"
 
Designer #2: "Hrm... okay, why?"
 
Designer #1: "Uhm... BECAUSE THEY'RE COOL!"
 
 
It just feels kind of random.
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Venatio

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Edited By Venatio

Well I love the idea of space combat in Mass Effect  
 
It could be awesome

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essaregee

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Edited By essaregee

Perhaps you are right =(. As much as I love mecha, they should leave it out. 
But flying around in the Normandy feels pretty lame.

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EvilTwin

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Edited By EvilTwin

Space combat, yes.  Mechs, no.

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Cerza

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Edited By Cerza
@Lowbrow said:
" Please sweet mother of God no. "
This! A thousand times over. THIS!!!
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Hitchenson

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Edited By Hitchenson

I'm good, thanks. 

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MeierTheRed

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Edited By MeierTheRed

Mechs are cool, but keep them out of my ME games.

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spacetrucking

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Edited By spacetrucking
@essaregee: Dude, people enjoy Mass Effect because it doesn't have mechs or any of the other stereotypical anime cliches (instead it has all the Western Sci-fi cliches ;) ).
 
I would really like a spin-off space sim game but Freespace 2 kind of did that already and killed the entire genre as a result. :(
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SuperSecretAgenda

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Because adding a whole new gameplay element is just new models and animations.

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NegativeCreep

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Edited By NegativeCreep

Great idea! Commander Shepard could be replaced with an angsty 14-year-old with daddy issues. Your other party characters could be a borderline-autistic albino girl, a 14-year old (and creepily hot) German prodigy and another creepy bisexual albino boy.
 
And you fight giant monsters. Lots of them.

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Sabata

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Edited By Sabata
@Icemael said:
" I like Mass Effect. I like mechas. 
 
I hate the idea of mechas in Mass Effect. "
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natetodamax

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Edited By natetodamax

I have never enjoyed fighting or playing as giant robots in video games, so no.

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NexAngelus405

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Edited By NexAngelus405

The thing is that mechs would be much more feasible than space fighters because of a concept first introduced in Mobile Suit Gundam called Active Mass Balance Auto-Control or AMBAC. Basically while conventional spacecraft such as the space shuttle rely on miniature rockets on the nose and wings called vernier thrusters (also sometimes referred to as apogee motors) to reorient itself in space, a mech would simply swing its limbs around to do the same thing, which would greatly conserve the use of much needed fuel (for example, to turn left or right, it would simply swing its arms around and to turn upwards or downwards it can just swing its legs forward or back). If a space fighter were to try and pull off the same kinds of maneuvers as a conventional fighter aircraft, it would run out of fuel very quickly due to excessive use of its vernier thrusters. But with a mech it will be able to pull off those same maneuvers while using much less fuel. It's more likely space battles of the future will look like something from Gundam rather than Star Wars. To add more evidence against the idea of space fighters, this site explains the fallacies of such a concept:  http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3x2.html#fighters

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jasta

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Edited By jasta
@Icemael said:
" I like Mass Effect. I like mechas. 
 
I hate the idea of mechas in Mass Effect. "


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deactivated-5fb7c57ae2335

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@Lowbrow said:
" Please sweet mother of God no. "
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bubahula

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Edited By bubahula

please no. cough, also that isnt a loki mech

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niamahai

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Edited By niamahai

As FemShep, i want to teach Legion how to 'love'!

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shadyspace

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Edited By shadyspace

I'd be down if it was a gritty, end of Aliens power-suit mecha. That could work well. No way to space-capable mobile suits, there's no way to get that into the series' established atmosphere.

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SeriouslyNow

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Edited By SeriouslyNow

Mass Gundam Macross = Mass DEFECT.
 
I love Gundam and Macross, but no.

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MyNameIsJoe

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Are you high!? Thats a terrible idea.

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Zenoside

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Edited By Zenoside
@NexAngelus405 said:

" The thing is that mechs would be much more feasible than space fighters because of a concept first introduced in Mobile Suit Gundam called Active Mass Balance Auto-Control or AMBAC. Basically while conventional spacecraft such as the space shuttle rely on miniature rockets on the nose and wings called vernier thrusters (also sometimes referred to as apogee motors) to reorient itself in space, a mech would simply swing its limbs around to do the same thing, which would greatly conserve the use of much needed fuel (for example, to turn left or right, it would simply swing its arms around and to turn upwards or downwards it can just swing its legs forward or back). If a space fighter were to try and pull off the same kinds of maneuvers as a conventional fighter aircraft, it would run out of fuel very quickly due to excessive use of its vernier thrusters. But with a mech it will be able to pull off those same maneuvers while using much less fuel. It's more likely space battles of the future will look like something from Gundam rather than Star Wars. To add more evidence against the idea of space fighters, this site explains the fallacies of such a concept:   http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3x2.html#fighters "

  What would power those arms? Why would they even consider using complex machinery when a simple thruster would do good? Mechs are just not useful in a practical real world sense. They won't be on land, air, water, or space it just doesn't make sense from an efficiency standpoint. The closest we will get to a mech will be powered suits, and that's about it.
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Edited By LiquidPrince

No, no it doesn't. Although more space car chases would be awesome.

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Hourai

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Edited By Hourai

Gundam stuff has no place in Mass Effect. 

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doublezeroduck

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Edited By doublezeroduck

Space combat like from Reach would be really fun in ME3 or even in ME2 DLC. No mech's though.

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chaser324

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Edited By chaser324  Moderator
@Lowbrow said:
" Please sweet mother of god no. "
I couldn't have said it any better myself. Mechs are absolutely the last thing ME needs.
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sparklykiss

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Edited By sparklykiss
@niamahai said:
" As FemShep, i want to teach Legion how to 'love'! "
Cyborg geth babies for everyone!
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FreakAche

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Edited By FreakAche

Anime fans play Mass Effect? All of my preconceived stereotypes of both sci-fi fandom and anime fandom have been shattered.

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NexAngelus405

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Edited By NexAngelus405
@Zenoside: It's not that complex. just have an endoskeleton made of carbon fiber reinforced polymers manipulated by artificial muscles made of carbon nanotube aerogels with a "skin" made of buckypaper over it and some extra armor grafted to said skin. As for a power source, it will use a nuclear lightbulb which is a nuclear fission reactor encased in quartz that radiates high amounts of heat and UV light. The heat is used to heat the propellant in order to increase fuel efficiency and the light can be used with photovoltaics (ie solar cells) to produce electricity. I imagine they would be armed with laser rifles powered by making contact with the buckpaper surface of the palm of the mecha's hand (buckypaper is highly conductive, which also allows it to act as a Faraday cage to shield the electronics from electromagnetic interference), a plasma window to act as a shield which can also be manipulated to become a blade for melee combat.
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Helimocopter

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Edited By Helimocopter

I disagree strongly, i feel like it doesnt fit in the ME universe, giant mecha combat doesnt seem to match any of the types of warfare that the various races use
and technologically it is a weird step for them, maybe a level where you are in a LOKI sized thing, but that might be really awkward and dumb

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mowgers

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Edited By mowgers

Ok, firstly feel free to call me on any of this, I haven't studied physics since the fifth year of secondary school which was, ooo, eight years ago now? All based on loose understandings of concepts and wikipedia articles...
 
Design/ fluff issues aside, mechs, like gundam wing style mechs, are basically redundant for any kind of ship to ship fighting in ME. Starship weapons in ME are linear accelerators, the longer the weapon is, the more power it can potentially output. For a space ship the weapon can be integrated into the structure of the craft, so the bigger the ship, the bigger the gun. That's why the Asari dreadnaught from ME1 is famed for it's main gun, the ship's fucking huge. A mech couldn't integrate a weapon in this way, it'd have to be arm mounted or some kind of rifle, which is kind of redundant, and wouldn't work at all well for the mech's balance.  Plus every action has an equal and opposite reaction, so a big accelerator cannon would need beefy engines on the other end to stop the firing object being pushed back. I'm not saying a mech couldn't be used in ship to ship combat, it just wouldn't be nearly as efficient or as effective as a conventional starship, and to actually work at all the mech would be so far removed from the humanoid 'gundam' ideal that it might as well just BE a spaceship. Remember, agility isn't an issue, Mass Effect has established the notion of mass effect fields, meaning even a large ship could maneuver and turn swiftly provided it has enough element zero going on.  
 
Mechs in fighter-bomber roles, also unnecessary. Lasers kill fighters in ME, you can't dodge that, so automated ship mounted systems work well enough to stop them. Fighters in ME just launch torpedoes when in range, then back off, you don't need arms, legs and a head to pull that off. 
 
Finally, mechs in ME as ground attack units... well, let's just say that my Shepard has a gun that shoots black holes and a personal shield that can shrug off rocket fire. All those geth walkers and destroyers, arguably the nearest thing the game has to mecha, just present themselves as big, tempting targets ready and waiting for a singularity to be projected at shiny metal ass. It's kind of why you don't see big armoured charges any more, too many ways for tanks to get killed.
 
Like I say, disregard if someone more qualified (i.e. at all) steps in to refute this but...

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dark_maggot

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Edited By dark_maggot

No Mechas please, Mass Effect is fine the way it is. 
 
Space combat maybe but I would like it more like how it is in Dead Space than piloting a space ship.

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NexAngelus405

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Edited By NexAngelus405
@Mowgers: You are forgetting one thing about lasers: they can be reflected. Just make a mech with a reflective surface like the Hyaku Shiki from Zeta Gundam and it will be immune to lasers. Whats more is, the reflective surface could even send the beam right back at the ship that fired the laser! Also the reason why the US navy no longer uses battleships is be because aircraft have made them obsolete. These days the Navy values aircraft carriers because air power has proven to be superior to sea power. The same can be said about space battleships and mechs. To give you an idea, this is what a mech vs space battleship battle would probably look like:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kQQT7lUMoI
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niamahai

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Edited By niamahai

personally i would like faster gunplay and better level design.

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warxsnake

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Edited By warxsnake

mechs in space dont fit the universe and art direction of mass effect. if it wanted to control any vehicle in space it would be the FUCKING NORMANDY....

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Death_Unicorn

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Edited By Death_Unicorn

If mechas were put into Mass Effect, it would be a bad thing.
If bad things happened to the Mass Effect franchise, my head would explode.
Therefore, if mechas were put into Mass Effect, my head would explode.

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papercut

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Edited By papercut

It's called MASS effect not MECH effect. OH, I crack my self up!

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deactivated-5ba16609964d9

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 Maybe they can also give Shepard a gunsword that is larger and longer then his/her body.

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mowgers

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Edited By mowgers
@NexAngelus405: Eh, it'd be easier to make a fighter 'reflective' than a mech. Also, the kind of mirror you're talking about needs to be near perfect on a microscopic level, that's the sort of reflector you've seen used in labs. Even if you could feasibly mass produce plates of that for a mech, you would not keep that kind of purity on military hardware. Even before the battle starts you'd have maintenance work scratching the body work. Also, the space around our planet is full of junk that pits and scars spacecraft on a tiny scale. If you're flying around with whole starships blowing up, the local vacuum would be full of debris. You'd not be able to shine up every surface either, exhaust ports and any joints in a moving system would receive constant wear. We have weapons now that can be shot down a chimney from miles away, and those are missiles. A laser traveling at the speed of light could simply target unshielded areas, blow off an arm, shoot a beam directly into an engine... 
 
They detail the combat in mass effect pretty well, it's not like modern navel engagements. Fighters don't even come into it until the last stages. It starts with the biggest ships firing shots from hundreds off kilometers away, then frigates engage. The fighters attack last when they have optimal range on their disruptor torpedoes and won't run out of fuel. Applying modern naval warfare to the potential situation of space combat doesn't really fly, you're just dealing in extreme ranges. Really, ship to ship combat in ME is quite dry and methodical... 
 
Oh God, I've gotten into a sci-fi debate on a forum, I've become everything I hate. Pardon me while I shoot myself in my own head...
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NexAngelus405

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Edited By NexAngelus405
@Mowgers: Still, the reason why aircraft have proven to be superior to battleships with greater firepower is that aircraft are harder to hit when they are performing evasive maneuvers. The amount of momentum needed to move an object the size of a ship would be higher than that of a fighter sized craft so the smaller craft will be able to accelerate more quickly than the ship. That said, the mechs would be able to perform evasive maneuvers without the use of vernier thrusters unlike a fighter (remember, space is a VACUUM so wing flaps will be USELESS!) allowing them to evade the line of fire of the guns and turrets of the ship. Also, lasers can be easily dispersed by dust and gases. I imagine that space-age mechs would make use of a "plasma window" which is basically a shield made of superheated gases manipulated by a powerful electromagnetic field (read more about it here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_window). The plasma window wouldn't completely neutralize the beam, but it could weaken it enough to only singe the surface of the armor.
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mowgers

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Edited By mowgers
@NexAngelus405:  Ok, but we're getting away from mechs in mass effect, which was the point of the thread... 
 
Also, I pulled this from your plasma window article "  At the same time, the plasma window will allow radiation such as lasers and electron beams to pass."  
 
Can we like, drop this? I've no desire to get any further into a nerd slanging match. 
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NexAngelus405

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Edited By NexAngelus405
@Mowgers: Oh, damn. Well, I think they will come up with some kind of countermeasure against lasers in the future, maybe something like venting certain types of gases to disperse the beam. But that's enough of that. I think mechs in mass effect could work if they make them exotic looking enough, maybe something in the style of Michael Bay's Transformers or perhaps something like the Orbital Frames from Zone of the Enders. Also, the mechs won't necessarily be humanoid, especially if they are used by alien races with an anatomy that is completely different from humans and so would base the design of their mechs of their own anatomy since that would make it more intuitive to operate (for example, arachnid aliens would have mechs that look like giant spiders).
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Ice_Cold_Rayman

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Edited By Ice_Cold_Rayman

I could see space combat being introduced, but at this point in the series? Probably not going to happen. I'd like it if they added more full fledged Firewalker missions.