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Justabard

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@phillipcat: are you trying to imply the financial and physical cost of that level of detail is unrelated to other parts of the game? Is this all you have left to work with?

You havent had a point for like 4 posts

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Justabard

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@phillipcat: ok so nothing new is being said here. Forcing diversity is a non issue that you've used nothing but "hunches" to justify. I'm not here for that. If you wanna look at a real comparison of resources being used in tangible ways look at how tlou2 spent so much time on animations that they didnt realize that it made for a funner killing experience that directly antithetical to the games message. See how materially different that comparison is from "I assume they spent more time adding a buff girl for no explicable reason". I can only ask so many times how you think what you're doing isnt just bias run rampant in favor of letting games with basic white guys in the cast be what they are with no scrutiny on casting choice affecting story

Finish the conversation with someone else.

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Justabard

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@phillipcat: seriously man, your point is bull the moment you say "you're right that nothing would have changed if there wasnt diversity"

We're just going off a hunch that doesnt sound realistic in any way in your hypotheticals. Just because you're ignorant about how easy adding a diverse cast in a game would be without detracting from the writing teams ability to make a story doesn't mean you have a point here.

"Idk how the process went down but I'm gonna spitball to fit my narrative" won't cut it. Reexamine the biases that got you here and move on

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Justabard

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#7  Edited By Justabard

@phillipcat said:

@justabard: I didn't count them. It was off recollection. And on M y 2nd play through I found more. But that's besides the point. The point is, it starts feeling like they spend so much time forcing inclusion that they forgot to sure up the story. And, yes, writing characters in just for the sake of writing a character does take away from enjoyment. I'm sure we ca all name characters that were absolutely unnecessary to the story. I'll start, rose in TLJ

Absolutely, there can exist characters that are unnecessary. But you're ignoring the issue and standard you're setting for writing by strictly looking for diversity when an unnecessary character appears. And complaining about TLJ is only going to make me take you less seriously. Any criticism you can levy at this game and either game isn't fixed by removing the diversity in the game. You know why? Because unless you sincerely think that you can't enjoy a game if it has too many diverse characters - which would make me never take you seriously again - the issues of writing can be solved while still including those diverse characters. Diversity isn't the problem in these games, the problem is bad writing. I can agree that the last of us has some serious pacing issues but if you saw this game with only white guys and "demographically accurate" people the game would be no less weak in writing in pacing in the areas we talk about.

And I'm being extremely generous to your take that a post apocalyptic seattle CAN'T stray from the original demography without being unrealistic. That's so laughable and you need to seriously step back and look at what you're saying. There's no such thing as "forced diversity" ruining anything but people's expectations for the cast in a story. And I'm fucking fine with that when the detractors are making the weakest of weak sauce points like you are

No where in your response do you have enough self awareness to realize that the framework for being annoyed with diversity forgets how often lack of diversity makes no sense many other games and stories. It points to the fact that you don't care about diversity and are unknowingly pushing for less realism for the sake of "normal" white straight faces as a default. The moment that default isn't there you jump to the conclusion that it needs a reason to be there, as if anyone but a white guy needs a fucking reason to be in a video game in large quantities

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#8  Edited By Justabard

@phillipcat said:

Seventh, the elephant in the room. Yes, this game is getting a lot of hate for being "woke." Is it baseless and unfounded? The answer to that is mostly. I completely get that representation needs to get better. I'm all for it. But this game seemed to completely force it to an extreme here. Just off the top of my head, very androgynous female and lesbian in the protagonist/antagonist position. Main side character a trans male. Bisexual jewish side character. Three asian side characters. Bi racial couples. Gay couples in notes. A Mexican side character. Two black side characters. Superhero cards using They/Them pronouns. Were they focused on inclusion and diversity and lose focus on story telling?

Jesus this was an exhausting part to read. If you ever find yourself counting diverse characters in a story and wondering if diversity has been forced in a game to ruin a story, you've lost the plot. You also classified Abby as being a part of this diverse cast for being... buff?

It's exceedingly hard to take this kind of rhetoric seriously. You'd reject any of a million plausible explanations for how post apocalyptic Seattle might not fit the modern day demography because the mere existence of too many diverse people made you perturbed.

That speaks for your own biases much more than it does the games "wokeness". There doesn't exist a game where diversity was the reason a game was bad. When a bad game has diversity, it's not because it took so much mental energy to come up with a non white character. I'd be willing to bet any game that is bad was bad for reasons that had nothing to do with the cast of the crew in the game. Bad writing is bad writing, and while we can agree that this story has a shit ton of pacing issues I'm rolling my eyes out of my skull at how people think "forced diversity ruining a story" is still a valid concept in 2020.

This isn't to say box ticking and diversity points doesn't happen, but just that when you start squinting hard to fit something into the "forced diversity" box you end up implying that diversity needs a reason to exist while being white cis and straight is totally fine and without any question in a game.