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Shorty

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Shorty

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Shorty

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Request sent.

ShortyAU on Xbox Live.

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Shorty

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Happy birthday, Ryan.

I'm having a nip of Glenlivet 12 while I crank out his REALEST SUMMERJAMS on Spotify.

We miss you, man.

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#4  Edited By Shorty

@humanity: I think it's more like in the case of movies, where the trailers would often contain cuts or dialogue that are significantly altered or even missing from the final cut because the trailers themselves were made well before the film was finally done. So if the scenes in that preview are different than the released game, it's probably because they were changed after that preview was made.

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You know, I'm starting to feel like the fact that people go out of their way to point out stuff like that about games might be the problem.

"LOOK! LOOK! This game isn't sexist, it's got wo-men in it! And they're treated like normal people too!"

Do we ever say that about any other medium whether it's true or not? Calling it progressive is even worse, as if it was deserving of praise. Like yeah, good job, you made a character that's like a human being, or at least what that amounts to in that universe, regardless of it's color of skin, gender, sexual orientation, favourite dish and the toothpaste they use. Nicely done...

Edit: Actually, I'll say that yes, good writing is commendable. But why do people feel the need to point out the fact that it's a good "female character", why not just a good character? What, most male video game characters are well written in comparison?

Edit 2: I'm also realising my post doesn't necessarily answer the point you're making, but you get the idea. :P

I think the point of calling it "progressive" was to point out that in a medium where most developers either get it wrong or, worse, don't even try, it is deserving of praise when a developer gets it right. In the same way that a toddler is praised for taking their first steps unassisted because up until that point they weren't capable of doing that. It's the steps taken towards a goal that count.

@missacre said:

@milkman said:

@missacre said:

Ugh, it's like you're TRYING to start a gender or feminism flamewar. I hope this thread gets locked.

How is he trying to start a flamewar? He's right.

It's okay to talk about games, even silly ones like Saints Row, on a level beyond "derp it's fun." I swear, you guys can do it. Just try.

How is he right? By pointing out how "progressive" this game is, he's exacerbating the problem itself, as if people can't make the connection themselves. I never once thought of the game as "progressive," I just had fun with it, and that should be the ultimate goal when playing a game, not checking to see if it's sexist or not.

Besides, he just defeated his own argument the second he posted the OP, because isn't the goal of that kind of thing to blend in subtly, and not scream LOOK AT ME I'M BEING PROGRESSIVE PLAY ME NOW but no, someone just HAS to point out how incredibly not sexist the game is.

So we're supposed to notice it, but not let anyone else know that we've noticed it? Doesn't that sound a tad ridiculous?

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@eskimo: Pretty much. The Classification Board is bound to enforce the rules set by the National Classification Code and it's this Code that dictates what content can and can't be in media. Changing the Code would require an Act of Parliament, which is probably not going to happen anytime soon considering there's likely to be a Federal election very soon.

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#7  Edited By Shorty
@selfconfessedcynic said:
@shorty said:

@selfconfessedcynic: Agreed, but the relative lack of diversity and representation of actual gamers on the Classification Board has been pointed out before (source: http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3755220.html), so again, I don't really trust them to make those decisions on my behalf. Personally, I don't think media classifications should be mandated in Australia, anyway. People have the right to be informed about media content, but that kind of information is readily accessible these days (young parents are pretty Internet-savvy, these days; certainly moreso than our leaders assume). Given that the vast majority of content has already been rated by about a dozen other agencies before it arrives here, I have yet to see the CB find anything *important* that everyone else has missed.

And as a general note, I would like to know what the CB found so objectionable they felt it should be initially banned, given that both Europe and the US passed the game UNCUT.

That's kinda the point though, right? Gamers tend to be more open minded and lax about these things in general (considering that our very hobby has become what some could construe to be a glorification of violence and sex). As I stated in a prior post, part of the board's job is to decide what is acceptable to be sold within Australia, it isn't just about possible censorship. They are not stopping you from importing it / downloading it.

I think a board with - what that author describes as - 4 middle aged women with arts and law degrees +others is a pretty good group of people to have on board to decide whether a work of art goes against the values of the Australian government.

BUT, I do agree, as stated earlier, that more transparancy would be fantastic. I'd bet that at a minimum having drugs as a reward is one element that Australian ratings boards does care about that those other two don't (and honestly, I'm fine with that objection).

It's a government body that has made a legally-enforceable decision strongly restricting or effectively preventing my access to an item of media (bearing in mind that importation is not legal, just laxly enforced; Source: http://www.classification.gov.au/Guidelines/Pages/FAQ-import-export.aspx). That is practically the definition of censorship. Not only that, but it's censorship by a government body that has demonstrated itself to be far too inconsistent (Destroy All Humans had an anal probe gun that ends in the victim's head exploding, which was passed by the ACB without incident), arbitrary (the film Salo has yo-yoed between banned and unbanned over last 20 years or so) and vulnerable to political interference (at least two banned games had their classification "reviewed" on the recommendation of Government Ministers) to deserve continuing legal power. At this point, I can barely trust their opinion even if they were a purely advisory body (i.e. if they couldn't legally ban games from being sold) if only because their rating a game would be utterly redundant by the time it reached Australia.

I'm totally fine with you deciding that this game isn't for you because it has an anal probe rocket gun (which is basically what this weapon is), if that is your decision. I'm not fine with someone else making that choice on my behalf. I don't much care if it "goes against the values of the Australian government". That's not what games are for. They're for playing. If we don't want to play those games, we can not buy them and eventually they won't be made anymore.

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Loading Video...

I know this is mostly Jeff's gag but Ryan totally helped out here, too. One of the all-time funniest Bombcast moments.

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@selfconfessedcynic: Agreed, but the relative lack of diversity and representation of actual gamers on the Classification Board has been pointed out before (source: http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3755220.html), so again, I don't really trust them to make those decisions on my behalf. Personally, I don't think media classifications should be mandated in Australia, anyway. People have the right to be informed about media content, but that kind of information is readily accessible these days (young parents are pretty Internet-savvy, these days; certainly moreso than our leaders assume). Given that the vast majority of content has already been rated by about a dozen other agencies before it arrives here, I have yet to see the CB find anything *important* that everyone else has missed.

And as a general note, I would like to know what the CB found so objectionable they felt it should be initially banned, given that both Europe and the US passed the game UNCUT.

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@goatmilk said:

@selfconfessedcynic said:

Oh okay, (from that release)

In the Board’s opinion, Saints Row IV, includes interactive, visual depictions of implied sexual violence which are not justified by context. In addition, the game includes elements of illicit or proscribed drug use related to incentives or rewards. Such depictions are prohibited by the computer games guidelines.

Fair enough - the AUS government has always been against rewarding you with drugs in media, and "implied sexual violence [...] not justified by context" is something I don't want in my games anyway.

I'm perfectly fine with implied sexual abuse in service of a story - I don't need or want rape / similar to be trivialised.

As such, I'm changing my opinion to "I'm fine with this decision".

I'm not for sexual assault being trivialised but I do take great offence at being told what I can or cannot watch/play/read/listen to. I'm not even thinking about the content here. It's more the fact that we're being treated like children, not adults who can make our own decisions.

I don't think it has anything to do with them treating us like children. Part of the ratings board's job is to decide what is allowed to accept over the counter payment within Australia.

They aren't making this decision to block us from this content per se, they are making the decision that something which positively reinforces drug use and has trivialised violent sexual acts should not be able to be monetarily rewarded in Australia.

Considering those are things I don't want in my media, I'm fine with that judgement. Note that they are perfectly aware that people who want it can just import it (and I have imported banned games before) or otherwise get it online. They aren't stupid.

As for people worrying about customs, I've never had a problem with customs - I honestly think they have bigger things to worry about than video game imports (and it seems like they do, too).

Except that if Koch Media don't appeal this or their appeal fails, none of us will be able to buy the game in Australia, so we can't really know if the game does actually "trivialise violent sexual acts" or even what they mean by "implied sexual violence". We can only speculate. Or download the demo or import the game.

So I can't be fine with the judgement being made because, like @goatmilk, I don't take kindly to being told what I can play. I have no problem with people having played some or all of the game and deciding that it's not for them because at least that decision comes from direct experience. I just don't want those kinds of decisions made for me.

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