But the game is supposed to strive for historic realism?

Can someone clarify this please?

Note to stupid people: when I say Red Orchestra should have forces from more countries than Germany and the USSR, I'm talking about countries that actually fought in the theater. I'm not saying Americans fighting in Stalingrad would make the game more realistic - and frankly you're a god damn moron if you assumed that.

Not everyone wants to be America.

What does this have to do with historic realism? Do you think Russia was sided with the axis or something?

RO is all about the Eastern Front. Sorry bro.

The battle of Stalingrad was Axis vs Russians. Watch Enemy at the Gates for a decent war flick on it. Watch "Stalingrad" for an excellent film that will turn you into a nihilist

It's called Heroes of Stalingrad. So of course you won't be able to play as America.

This is not Red, White and Blue Orchestra.

@HandsomeDead said:

Not everyone wants to be America.

I think he's referring to the other axis participants i.e. Italy Romania Croatia and so on.

But yeah those are whatever. People read Stalingrad, they expect Germany Vs Soviet Union

@Spoonman671: That's their rock band ripoff where you play nothing but Sousa marches

I can't tell if this is a serious post.

@nemt: Can you clarify why this needs to be clarified? It seems historically realistic to me. Most soldiers fighting for the German and Russian armies were German or Russian.

Who else do you want to be?

What about Protoss?

Yo, it has STALINGRAD right in the title. The fuck is wrong with you? Read a book or something...

@nemt said:

But the game is supposed to strive for historic realism?

Can someone clarify this please?

Obviously the game was created by nazi-communists, to spread their anti-american agenda to our children.

@nemt said:

But the game is supposed to strive for historic realism?

Can someone clarify this please?

Troll account confirmed?

Yeah, why can't I use night vision goggles and call in laser guided missile strikes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad

So you're asking for extra Romanian, Italian, Hungarian or Croatian Axis camo? :D

Dark Templars are pretty cool

@raiz265: nice :)

Wait for mods dude. The game is going to be amazing 6 months from now with all the mod and the dev team is busy putting new maps and content for free like all their others games. I'm sure there will be a German Hiwi or Soviet penal battalion mod so you can live out your realism fantasy.

The word Stalingrad is in the title for a reason, you know?
And seen that Romanian, Italian, Hungarian and Croatian troops were all under the direct command of the German army, I don't think there's a need for each of them to have a faction of their own...

But I only want to be Russian in every video game ever.

Dude's just trolling...

Neither the Germans or the Russians were capable of spawning more Overlords, which I believe illustrates this games historical inaccuracies.

lol

@ze_ro said:

Dude's just trolling...

I highly doubt it. For historical backdrop the Italians weren't in the city nor were the Romanians. They were covering the German flank outside the city until about Dec when the Soviets push a counter offensive and both Itatian and Romanian lines buckled under the the pressure. It would be a very interesting mod to play of you were able play both countries troops

@Witzig said:

@ze_ro said:

Dude's just trolling...

I highly doubt it. For historical backdrop the Italians weren't in the city nor were the Romanians. They were covering the German flank outside the city until about Dec when the Soviets push a counter offensive and both Itatian and Romanian lines buckled under the the pressure. It would be a very interesting mod to play of you were able play both countries troops

Your argument is an invalid reply to my post, please clarify.

Are you people idiots or something? I didn't say you should be able to play as America.

I was asking because a REALISTIC game about the Eastern Front in WW2 should include the other participants in the theater besides Germany and the USSR.

Italy, Spain, Romania, Finland, Croatia, Hungary, etc. (many of whom had soldiers involved in Stalingrad)

@nemt: You don't play as Germany, you play as the Axis, all of those countries are Axis countries, problem solved.

@AlexW00d said:

@nemt: You don't play as Germany, you play as the Axis, all of those countries are Axis countries, problem solved.

Because every Axis country's military had the same uniforms, weapons, vehicles, etc. and they all spoke German?

The game makes bold claims about accuracy, but doesn't even get the participants in the war correct. It's not like Call of Duty or Medal of Honor and so on are better at this, but I've yet to see them champion historic realism.

EDIT: Also not every country allied with Germany against the Soviets was a formal member of the Axis Powers.

@nemt: It's about realistic physics not history. There is no story in this game aside from cinematics in between assaults, and all that really does is tell the story of Stalingrad. It mentions the Romanians and the Italians backing up the Germans.

Also the SP is just an extra to beef the game up, the game is pretty much all about it's multiplayer.

I suppose that's reasonable. The role of Germany's allies in the Eastern Front seems to be completely ignored by most games.

EDIT: And in Africa for that matter. But that's obviously outside the scope of a game set in Russia.

@nemt said:

Are you people idiots or something? I didn't say you should be able to play as America.

I was asking because a REALISTIC game about the Eastern Front in WW2 should include the other participants in the theater besides Germany and the USSR.

Italy, Spain, Romania, Finland, Croatia, Hungary, etc. (many of whom had soldiers involved in Stalingrad)

Chill...you should've been more specific when starting this topic.

@nemt said:

EDIT: Also not every country allied with Germany against the Soviets was a formal member of the Axis Powers.

Correct, was about to say this. We (Finland) never signed the Tripartite Pact.

I agree with AlexW00d, It's about gameplay realism not history. There are endless battles, big and small, that get next to no attention in historic discussion. If a videogame is made, do you really expect them to take into account every minor detail written in history ? Don't...you will be disappointed over and over and over again.

@ze_ro: Sorry I had two different things running through my head at once I have no clue why I quoted you.

@Witzig said:

@ze_ro: Sorry I had two different things running through my head at once I have no clue why I quoted you.

k I read you.

I should have to be specific when I criticize a game over historic realism that I'm not trying to say Americans should be included in Stalingrad? Ok. I'll keep that in mind next time.

And I don't expect perfect historic realism - mainly because that would be exceptionally boring. A perfectly realistic war videogame depicting actual history would involve waiting days, weeks, months before doing anything. I would, however, like to see the participants in specific theaters of war accurately represented. I guess it's nice to see a game about the Eastern Front at least, instead of playing Omaha Beach for the thousandth time - my gripe is it still makes many of the same historic mistakes every other Eastern Front set game has. I don't consider WHAT COUNTRIES' ARMIES FOUGHT IN THE BATTLE a "minor detail."

@nemt said:

my gripe is it still makes many of the same historic mistakes every other Eastern Front set game has. I don't consider WHAT COUNTRIES' ARMIES FOUGHT IN THE BATTLE a "minor detail."

Do you also complain when fourth string punt kickers are not included in Madden?

Romania didn't played a huge role in that particular scenario. I don't know about Croatia .

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

@nemt said:

my gripe is it still makes many of the same historic mistakes every other Eastern Front set game has. I don't consider WHAT COUNTRIES' ARMIES FOUGHT IN THE BATTLE a "minor detail."

Do you also complain when fourth string punt kickers are not included in Madden?

I haven't played Madden since the 90s but as far as I know modern Madden includes the complete 53 man rosters for every team - and I imagine if they didn't there would be a huge outcry. This is a relatively minor detail compared to a corps or even an entire army being excluded from a theater of war.

@nemt: You've not played the game so how the fuck do you even know which countries are mentioned? I already told you Italy and Romania are mentioned in the first god damn cinematic, just because you don't play as them makes no difference to how historical this game even is. Stop being butthurt for no reason, or at least play the game before you invent faults with it.

They opened themselves up to criticism on accuracy grounds when they started touting how realistic the game is. I could get into visible flaws with the gameplay based on the demos they've shown too if you want. I didn't mean to get the people here so riled up over what's admittedly not a big issue to anyone's enjoyment of the game itself - it's just irritating seeing people all over the internet, including people who work for Tripwire, championing their obsession with realism when there are such glaring inaccuracies present - many of them the same inaccuracies present in the other WW2 game series they openly criticize.

Meh only being able to play as German or Russian infantry isn't that big a deal, to me in 2011 where we have all this technology available I don't understand why developers are being so lazy with regards to other details. Of course by this I'm talking about the complete and total disregard Tripwire Interactive have shown for naked cartoon pussy.

All jokes aside I think the disappointment on the technical front is how graphics and to a lesser extent physics seem to be the main focus and drive for improved processing power - AI, an area that needs A LOT of work and can benefit GREATLY from improved processing power, is largely ignored. Lots of games talk about improved AI and so on, but it's pretty much always a crock of shit (hi Bethesda).

@nemt said:

I should have to be specific when I criticize a game over historic realism that I'm not trying to say Americans should be included in Stalingrad?

To be honest the first thing that came into my mind when opening this topic was what HandsomeDead said. But I'm a hater, and the first reactions I get are always negative.

@nemt said:

And I don't expect perfect historic realism - mainly because that would be exceptionally boring. A perfectly realistic war videogame depicting actual history would involve waiting days, weeks, months before doing anything. I would, however, like to see the participants in specific theaters of war accurately represented. I guess it's nice to see a game about the Eastern Front at least, instead of playing Omaha Beach for the thousandth time - my gripe is it still makes many of the same historic mistakes every other Eastern Front set game has. I don't consider WHAT COUNTRIES' ARMIES FOUGHT IN THE BATTLE a "minor detail."

I totally get what you're saying, I'm bored to tears with the same old scenarios we get over and over again. Personally I do not consider any country's involvement a meaningless matter either. I'd sure as hell like to see a game about the Winter War, mostly of course as I'm a Finn, but even if I wasn't it was pretty intense what happened here. But it's not gonna happen 'cause it lacks 'USA for teh Win', the bigger war games are aimed for mass western audience, it won't sell in the US if there's no 'America is teh dominate' -formula, and when the buyers don't care about the 'minor details', the developers ain't gonna use time on them 'cause it needs to $ell and make money fastarrr.

I know there are still good developers out there (especially in eastern Europe), and I totally lost my train of thought and might've missed the point, but it's fun to rant. In the meantime, let's enjoy Red Orchestra 2...(and horray for mods<3)

@nemt said:

They opened themselves up to criticism on accuracy grounds when they started touting how realistic the game is.

Developers do that ;)

Did you see the guy at Call of Duty XP telling how Call of Duty is ULTRA-REALISTIC, yeah CoD...ultra...realistic...ilol'd

Oh well...

Yeah, that's pretty funny. But CoD3 did include playable Polish and French characters in the campaign (I think? I may be remembering incorrectly, I haven't played it). At least that was a step closer to realism from the "AMERICANS DID EVERYTHING; WW2 STARTED WITH DDAY." I don't know of any other WW2 FPS that has them. Obviously it would never happen but an Axis campaign in a CoD style game would be pretty refreshing, alternating between German, Italian and Japanese soldiers for example.

A game about the Winter War or Continuation War would be a welcome change of pace as well - EA Sports could make it and they could call it Simo Hayha 2012.

Next time you go to your local gamestore, take a detour and go to the library instead and your questions will be answered

@Ravenhoe said:

Next time you go to your local gamestore, take a detour and go to the library instead and your questions will be answered

Please find me a history book that says only Germans and Russians fought on the Eastern Front in WW2. I'd really like to see that.

I'll wait.