All Systems Goku 30

Yay Anime!

I have it on good authority that this is Jeff's favourite run of episodes so far!

This run of episodes is a large part of why I don't like the Buu saga much

Anyone know how to watch this show digitally without having to buy episodes individually? I checked funimation and they don't seem to stream the show from what I understand with the reviews on their site.

jeff is 100% right about hobbs and shaw

Well I understand why this episode is over an hour long now.
(Dragon Ball talk starts around 17 mins)

Buu: i hate ghosts

Super Ghost Kamikaze: im a ghost

Buu: ****

Justice for Han!

OH! COLLUSION!

Don't worry Jeff, Gotenks gets worse.

As someone who has only seen the first 2 Fast an the Furious movies, this new trailer makes it seem like they went full fantasy/super hero with this franchise.
Is this new? Did some crazy twist from reality to fantasy happen in these films? LOL

Starting from the 5th movie they get wild. They're essentially secret agents working for the government by ways of Kurt Russell's character 'Mr. Nobody'. They're fantastic.

BTW If you want to skip the F&F talk, jump to 17:15.

Jeff is going way too hard on the Gotenks stuff so I'm glad Dan's there to balance it off.
Good news for Jeff I guess in the next batch, though now I'm curious where their Vegetto feelings are going to lie.

Edit: I do absolutely agree with Jeff though that a natural ending to the Z series would be Gohan beating Buu wearing the orange gi even though I like where it goes.

Gotenks is an aggressive waste of time.

I never understood why everyone loved Vegetto & Gogeta but not Gotenks. It makes no sense they are essentially the same character.

Oh man.... They're about to see Gohan get screwed over big time lol.

Dan is correct about Gotenks.

Poor old Toriyama, he really really wanted to do what Jeff mentioned, over and over. But fans would not let him.

I do like the explanation that the super saiyan transformation takes a bunch of energy so Old Kai let's Gohan hit super saiyan 2+ without the transformation so he doesn't waste the energy. Just a cool little bit of info.

@matiaz_tapia: To be fair, there's no basis that Toriyama went in that direction because of fan outcry; the only quotes available suggest that it was his own personal decision.

Vegetto's name is kind of confusing, because it's a combination of Vegeta and Goku's Saiyan name Kakarot... Except in Japanese, his name is Kakarotto, so it makes sense there but not so much in English. The Viz translation tried to compensate for this by giving him the name Vegerot, but that's just a dumb name.

I imagine that these comments are going to be insufferable thanks to the early Fast and Furious talk.

I think this is definitely what I consider the most painful stretch of episodes in all of Dragon Ball Z Kai. Gotenks could have been fun for one episode, but he's not a good character to focus on for multiple episodes in a row. It doesn't help that a ton of time in previous episodes was spent building up to this moment and the fight itself feels like it has absolutely 0 weight; Buu just keeps regenerating back to full and nothing that happens with Gotenks in this 5 episode stretch has any impact at all on the plot.

Great episode. Hitting the home stretch now folks!

Jeff wants to talk about Dragon Ball Kai so little that he goes on a Hobbs & Shaw and MGS lore rant for 17 minutes

Man every week my Boy Krillin gets shit on. You can't have Krillin face Videl, because Krillin is like 10x a Videl or every other human. He trained with Master Roshi and for a while he was on the same level as Goku. Videl in my opinion is on par with Kid Goku (when he confronts Red Ribbon Army) but Goku can take bullets to the head while i doubt Videl could.

Videl is a strong female character but in a sense she as too. Or else Gohan would not fall in love with her, because instinctively his saiyan side searches for strong determined women.

Not shitting on Videl, but Krillin is cooler imo

As for why the story is so messy on WHY isn't the Hero Gohan, is because of how the original work was created (the Manga) Since its released weekly and every week the publisher receives answers from questionnaires, that come with the weekly issue, the editor saw how the series was loosing popularity (because it didn't present neither Goku or Vegeta) and recommended on adding them in for the final fight. It gives us the great moment where Vegeta has that big speech on how he was bested, but it completely debunks the theory of Gohan being the hero.

It doesn't change the content at all, but context to remember:

DBZ wasn't a show with real multiple writers being planned out ahead of time, like multiple shows. It was a weekly black and white comic that had been running for a decade at this point, starting as a comedy series with action elements as a sort of Journey to the West satire that took off unexpectedly after initially being less popular than the writer/artist's previous purely comedic story.

Toriyama infamously had to write the story on the fly week by week while also drawing it, which is a pretty taxing experience, all things considered. Then an animation studio had to figure out how to adapt and modify that story content (usually by stretching it out with repetition), sometimes adding extra story stuff (that Toriyama barely looked at) while not knowing themselves how the story is going to ultimately pan out, while the original comic was still being written.

Then there's the weird realities of weekly print manga publishing, where you're beholden to publishers and an editor, and there's a constant reminder of popularity where readers decide which series that week is their favorite, which is constantly ranked and affects how close to the front of the magazine that series will be in future issues. There's also regular character popularity polls, which do influence publishers and writers as to which characters they need to push.

Again, none of this changes the actual content and whether you enjoy it, but it's the writer's room stuff that explains it. Why does Goten exist? Because Gohan got aged up and someone at the publisher thought that a series focused toward young boys needed a young boy hero, just like how Gohan was introduced to fill the gap left when Goku got aged up at the end of Dragon Ball (which the publisher apparently was extremely opposed to when Toriyama told them he was going to do it because he was tired of kid Goku).

The taxing schedule is also why the series got so slapstick for a while here: Toriyama sorta got roped into writing a more and more pure action series by how popular that aspect turned out to be with the audience, but by the time Buu came around he was clearly getting sick of it and wanted to write some goofier stuff - like his earlier material - just to take a short break from depressing future androids sucking dudes off and killer aliens committing genocide.

@matiaz_tapia: Once again proving Jeff right: "It's not anime that's the problem, it's people who like anime that are the problem."

no.

Finally finished with the Gotenks stuff, which is easily the worst stretch of the Buu Saga. The episodes from here on out are way better.

Yes. Vegetto and Gogeta are essentially diet Gotenks. They lose points in originality as well.

Confirmed: Fast & Furious franchise is American anime.

Also I personally love the fact that Akira Toriyama helped shape and mold the shonen anime genre, and ALSO then, WITHIN THE SAME FRANCHISE presented some incredible deconstruction of if. Having characters just do shit because it's dramatic, pointing out how silly it is to just stand there while your opponent sets up a cool move, having Elder Kai just be a giant piece of trash. I. Love. the Buu. Saga!

Hey guys, the seven minutes off topic discussion about Fast & Furious was terrible, at least the wrestling discussion makes sense in context of Dragon Ball. Just say NO to Dan, Jeff.

Vegito and gogeta are better fusions cause they skip all the theatrics and are less nonsensical

Gogeta in Broly has like one line of funny dialogue right at the beginning wanting a name because it will be cooler, but then is an absolute savage in both broly and fusion reborn.

Vegito is just more stoked and confident than anything and has that more wrestling type of showmanship.

Dont worry Jeff, Gotenks rarely appears in the new series and movies, if anything it seems it only appears to get his ass kicked.

Jeff doesn't really understand what he criticizes and once again puts his poor taste on display. It's ok to enjoy things and not be jaded.

Dan gets it 100% and is on the money about everything, like how the fight, humor and fighters are different and how it would be stale to do the same thing over and over. This is where it ends any way. Jeff doesn't really have any solid arguments, just scathing insults.

I love people complaining about Jeff and Dan talk about Fast & Furious for a few minutes as if y'all don't listen to them ramble about whatever they feel like for 3+ hours every week on other podcasts. C'mon people, have some self awareness. They're in what is easily the worst part of the show, let 'em enjoy themselves a bit.

Jeff "Goku was the man, now it's Gohan's turn; this is how it must go; can't go any other way."
That was the story of the Cell saga. Considering how wrong nearly every prediction of his has been, it's a bit early for him to cast judgement on the future.

Jeff is insufferable sometimes.

Despite the mixed feelings on the episodes covered, this was a highly entertaining podcast episode.

no

and I've got no issue with Gotenks

When Jeff has a strong initial feeling it rarely changes. Like him and Anthem recently, I know there's no chance he'll ever be positive about that game and that's just how he is. He either likes something right away or hates it, the lukewarm starts generally just go negative as well.

Bummer that Kai assumes people watching it have already seen Z or are familiar with it, that it doesn’t mind spoiling things in the theme song and bumpers. Original Z’s theme song for this portion of the series were fun and didn’t introduce any characters it didn’t need to.

Also hearing Jeff say “this isn’t Dragon Ball” when talking about Gotenks vs. Buu is kinda funny considering most of Dragon Ball is about an idiot kid fighting strong opponents, with slap stick fights, and lots of visual gags. The tone of Freeza/Cell arcs are the exception, because Dragon Ball has always been a comedy - not some serious dramatic anime. The Buu saga is DB going back to its roots.

I love how serious Jeff is about fast and furious lore

I knew jeff would get my hate of gotenks. love it

Like Jeff said, I wouldn't mind the series going back to its comedy focus if it wasn't set against the backdrop of, you know, the extinction of the human race and the potential obliteration of the galaxy

Gotenks as a self-parody is tonally jarring at the point when he takes centre stage, Gotenks as a character is just plain unlikeable

Jeff is 100% Right THAT MOTHERFUCKER KILLED HAN!!

"Most of Metal Gear could Happen" - Dan Ryckert