Unfinished: Artifact 11/20/2018

As a big DotA fan and former HearthStone fan, this game excites me immensely.

GOTY, baby.

Any GB'ers got a spare beta key for a friendo?

I've been playing Magic for some years now and I couldn't understand this game at all

I honestly don't know what's going on. I play League so I should see what's up, but card roles confuses me.

@sirpsychosexy: Does having to buy the game then also buy additional packs excite you?

This game looks so confusing. It seemed like they were taking multiple actions in each lane. I also don't understand what the arrow cards did (when he was placing new cards). I'm sure the full game will have an in-depth tutorial, but I found myself scratching my head a lot during this.

@spencero said:

I don't mind spending some money here and there for event tickets, but I don't really care for buying packs and collecting the cards considering the consensus by the community and beta players is draft mode is far superior to constructed in this game.

Also, if it really is an issue the community is going to give Valve hell, which they already have about a few things, and we saw Valve react very quickly adding the free phantom draft mode and allowing duplicate cards to be recycled into event tickets.

I trust if shit is just straight up too malicious and the community is outraged Valve will wise up.

> Expecting them to make this game less monetizable when it launches

lel

@puppymehard: you can take actions in each lane as long as you have things to do and mana to do them with. The only downside is that the last person to act in a given lane will be the second to act in the next (this can be extremely important)

The arrows are randomized and determine which direction each card will attack in. cards can attack across or diagonally

No, the first player to pass without playing anything acts first in the next lane.

As someone who has played magic since 1994 this does not look very fun. It's like every game is just a token spam essentially since all you're doing is essentially zerging each lane. The beauty of magic is having minimal resources and pulling off spectacular combos. I am sure there is oodles of strategy here but this doesn't seem fun and also spending 15 minutes on a turn in magic when you only have 2 cards in your hand and a handful of mana is what makes it magic.

@hansolol: yeah thats what i meant. Last person to act goes second in the next lane

I'm glad Valve are making games again, but I'd rather play Hearthstone to be honest. Not a fan of some of the transaction stuff I'm seeing here.

I'm extremely looking forward to this. The monetization model doesn't bother me for a few reasons -- mainly that there is a free drafting mode. Drafting has always been more fun to me than constructed in general, so because I don't care much about constructed in turn means I don't care that much about building up my card pool.

A much better way to spend money on this game (for me at least) will be to throw in $5 every now and again for some event tickets, which I can then use to play phantom draft. If I do decent in phantom draft, I'll get the startup costs back (three wins and you get the event ticket refunded.) If I do WELL, I might end up with a pack or two that I can open for cards to sell to possibly, maybe, even make a profit. I'm not depending on this! But it's entirely possible that you'll be able to play competitive modes for a long while by doing that. And you can ALWAYS just play the free modes without spending more.

They've also said (quite recently!) that progressions systems are their main priority after launch. -> https://twitter.com/PlayArtifact/status/1064942967964614656

Worth noting that Ben mentioned there should be a way to get rid of dupes. There WILL be, thought he details are not clear yet. You will be able to melt dupes for event tickets.

I was really hopeful for this game, as I've been falling off Hearthstone the last year and that game needs some competition, but the monetization puts me off the whole thing. I've spent ~$80 dabbling in Hearthstone since it first came out, and I can still play here and there, build up a collection and decks, and play as much or as little as I want, only putting in some extra money on rare occasions for a good deal. Hearthstone can be very expensive if you want to try to get everything, but it also can be pretty much free if you just want to play casually.

This is money up front, money to build up a collection, and money to play any of the major competitive modes, pretty much the worst of all worlds. Now at least you can play "casual" versions of the modes for free (after the $20 starting price), but casual not allowing any progress towards anything kind of puts a damper on that. Also the match length and complexity really makes it hard to slot into the "play a couple quick matches" feel that Hearthstone has.

I realize it's trying for a very different audience and plan than Hearthstone, but I can't help but compare it in deciding if I'm going to make the switch and learn a whole new card game.

I feel like Valve should just drop the gaming racket and just open a casino already, atleast then they'll be honest in what they're selling.

Other than the whole gambling aspect to all TCG, i have a hard time wanting to play this with the whole 3 lanes thing.
Also hearing Gabe talk about the game like it's going to change anything shows how blind they are to the rest of the TCG market, ffs i can buy pokemon cards and get the digital version for free, sell the real cards and somehow still have money to spare.

I honestly liked the Yu-Gi-Oh! card games more as they allow you to keep using your existing cards but that game has gone to shit ages ago, maybe i just want a good card game without all the gambling and abandonment of people who don't drop all their money into it?

The ability to draft for free might get me to buy this. Not sure if I am into how it plays though. Also, I think that pack opening animation was kind of weak.

We'll do Artifact Unfinisheds but refuse to ever look at, or even mention Gwent and Thronebreaker, huh? Even though it's CDPRed's first game in 3.5 years.

This seems more confusing than it needs to be

@spencero: They are treating this card game like you would a physical. Buy into the initial starter decks ($20) and then you can buy booster packs or play keeper draft and keep the cards you draft for your decks. You will also be able to buy/sell cards on the steam market place. There will also be a way top lay draft for free (but you don't get to keep the cards.)

I can understand people wishing there was some free-to-play model where you can grind infinite hours in hopes of building an ok competitive deck someday, but I personally don't mind this model (which has been the standard for card games for forever). Not sure where the outrage from some is coming from.

Man, games take (or seem to take) forever in this. I don't think I'll be able to play a game that slow.

No daily / weekly quests so you can build up even a small amount of premium currency is pretty lame.

I feel like they really ought to take a look at "Thronebreaker", or just "Gwent" in general. Animation-wise, I feel like it's far more impressive between every single card having an animation of it's own, area or "lane" effects being quite dramatic; and your 3D avatar being quite emotive. Oh, and there's the added bonus of not having to spend a shit-ton of money.

"Thronebreaker" in particular has a surprisingly fantastic story that changes drastically depending on your choices, which is to be expected from the folks who wrote The Witcher game series, but definitely not something you expect from a card game.

I really don't get the appeal of this at all.

Relapse Brad, on the scene.

Good to see this game has solid tutorials at least. Now they just have to re-evaluate their pricing scheme.

They said words and I only understood a few of them. This game looks very confusing for a noon card or DOTA player but it looks interesting.

What the hell is up with the little -# ? Just change the number. That's why we are playing it digitally so we don't have to do the math.

While it looks kind of interesting (if overly complicated), I'm not going to shell out 20 bucks to see if I'd enjoy it.

Also, that pricing model seems ill-advised with seemingly zero progression built into the core game and a shit-load of loot boxes.

I guess if you want variety, you could exclusively play casual draft, but then why pay 20 bucks for random cards you're not gonna use.

The complexity of this game seems like it aims towards a pretty hardcore crowd.

@therealpanic: It is just showing what will happen during the action phase (when the cards clash) if left in the current state. Those numbers can be changed by playing cards and other actions and are not set in stone until both players pass.

It would be infinitely more confusing if the game changed the health of things before the action actually happened, especially since it might not even happen.

Lotta hype for this one.

The progression complaint seems crazy to me. That's like the best thing about what they're doing here.

Buy the game. Play the game. Have fun with the game.

You want more cards? Buy more cards. Or don't.

The lack of some arbitrary account level to grind for is honestly a breath of fresh air to me. I can't say enough nice things about it.

The only concern is how "necessary" buying more packs is. But it's a CCG so that's honestly a baked in concern to the whole genre. Know what your getting into. You gotta buy packs of Magic cards if you play Magic.

The expert mode buy in things seems insane too but being optional... Sure whatever. I hate to say "Magic the Gathering" again but it is what it is. Seems like a digital version of going to a Friday Night Magic event to play draft with strangers. That kind of thing has an inherent buy in.

I think this looked cool as hell and I hope Valve ports it to not PC. Is that crazy in 2018? I'm out of touch with Valve. A 20 dollar card game with fun looking mechanics, I'd be super down :D

Chef Kevin? Is Ben a Hollywood Handbook fan?

@steveurkel:

I don't know man. The problem with comparing games to Magic is... Well nothing beats Magic. In like, what is it now, thirty years? I've seen tons of variations in the genre. Never played anything that compares to Magic.

But I love what I see here. Seems really fun and sure, token spam is apt but baked into the Moba roots. Moba's have infinite waves of 1/1's essentially. The core systems at play here are sort of designed with that as it's base.

Does it beat Magic? Naw. But it looks better then any other digital card game I can think of.

Let me get this right. You get 10 card packs to start with, and each card pack costs $2. I think I know why it costs $20.

Valve has said the game will come to iOS & Android in 2019.

Words cannot describe how disappointed I am that this isn't an Unfinished EX with Valve's own Brad Muir.

I was kinda interested in this, but that expert mode completely kills that for me... Also seemingly no way to get cards other than to straight buy them is also a bit turn off when Hearthstone exists.

Er... I think I'll stick to playing Star Realms with my friends.

RIDER MEET FORCED SURRENDER

FORCED SURRENDER MEET RIDER

Pricing aside, that there's luck-based mechanics is a bummer for me. It's why I bounced off of Hearthstone after a while. Yeah, the deck is a big luck-based mechanic, but I hate it when I lose a match because luck rolled heavily against me.

@benpack

The arrow cards that get dropped on the field decide whether unit attacks straight or to an enemy on the side. Look for those curved arrows.

The round timer is the outside ring of your 'end turn' button depleting.

Improvements are the permanent effects you place on the board, like Ignite. You explained it correctly first but later forgot what it was somehow :)

Personally, i think this looks like a pretty rad cardgame. I'm not sure yet whether i would buy into this , but i can definitly see the appeal. Although i do feel like this game requires a bit more thought behind it than a casual round of hearthstone. Just to take all the information in. How cards on the board build charges up on the cards in your hand and knowing when you are able to cast hero abilities. That kind of stuff.

The monetization part of Artifact & how much progression systems there are to keep you engaged is something that will change over the months. No doubt. The one thing i wonder about is how this all works for Dutch players. Given that our anti-gambling law had this clash with Valve where they eventually decided that Dutch players can't buy stuff from the market anymore in Dota , i wonder if the market is also disabled for Artifact. That would pretty much be a deathkiss for this game. Probably not the case for now, but i can see the gambling authority keeping an eye on games like this.

Finally, a good tutorial?! whaaaaaaa? Dota still doesn't have a great way to get new players in. And i guess the inclusion of old abilities on the hero means that some of those heroes will feel different than their dota counterpart over time, which can lead to the feeling that the heroes don't function like a dota player would expect them to.

@vampire_chibi: Living card games are perfect for this! Both players have whole access to the cards being used, can be played with base sets, can add expansions, and no boosters or anything. Just the base set and full expansions.

Wow, so many chance mechanics. Far too much and critical than what I want in a card game.

@tevor_the_third: exactly. Nothing beats magic. Why can't they just sell the rights and have them make a God Damn magic game, I've spent my whole life picking at the scraps trying to get an experience as close and plwneswalkers tried but always felt so limiting.

That's what is depressing is you can't beat magic rule set and feel of sitting down and just shuffling cards and tapping lands and oh god I wish I had people to play magic with still

I am definitely willing to pay $20 just for the ability to do casual phantom drafts. Drafting brings a nice variety while still requiring skill, and since it draws from the entire pool of cards you get the full experience for one price.

As someone who spent a fair amount of money on MTGO 2, I feel like there are upsides to this payment model that someone who is more familiar with games like Hearthstone might overlook. For the player who spends $0 and grinds gold through daily challenges or tries to go infinite in arena, having to pay whenever you want new cards probably isn't appealing. For someone who would occasionally spend money on a pack or two, the cards that you get in Artifact are likely to hold a lot more value on average than the cards in Hearthstone would; you can sell them on the market instead of turning duplicates into a pittance of dust to craft new cards.