Giant Bomb Presents: The State of Diversity in Games

@thefriend: OH NO, PETITIONS, HOW HORRIBLE! THOSE BULLIES! I remember when this was AMERICA and we had things like OPINIONS and FREE SPEECH!! Then the petitions came.......

@tinyearl: Yes please do tell me what engrossing wonderfully told not at all trite stories are you referring to is it the one where the guy killed all those other guys!

Remember Pefect Dark? I sure do. I loved playing that game. And guess what? It is never mentioned in todays debates regarding issues like these, that you actually played as a woman. The fact that it wasn't a big deal is a great achievement for the developer. You, the player couldn't care less. Because it wasnt a big deal. Now everything is a big deal. Take a chill pill peeps (and developers)!

Just bringing this up to remind folks that there are good examples of good practices in game development which in turn is not forced upon people. (There are ofc more)

Idk, once you are around small children, you might change your mind. I have a 3 (turning 4 soon) year old niece that I want to expose to video games, but I just don't want her seeing games filled with subservient female characters with balloon tits hanging out (like the entire DOA series or LoL's female character design). I understand that there's a market for that, and that's fine, I would just prefer more games to not have that design stance. Above all else, I just think it's lazy and tacky character design. I also highly doubt it's very good for society as a whole, especially to female body image. Hell, it would probably even help grow games outside of being a largely male dominated pastime. This is pretty much the only "issue in games" that I honestly care about.

Hey, can we get a show of hands of who in this comment section has actually listened to the interview? Maybe we should have some comments about the actual talk? Here, I'll try to get the ball rolling.

Manveer says all the right things here but BioWare should probably lead more by example. They certainly have made strides in their games with female and gay representation. But in games like Dragon Age 2 (which sucks in just about every conceivable way), being gay seemed more like a novelty than an actual character trait. Instead of actually writing interesting characters, BioWare just lazily slapped "gay" onto every character and told the player "eh, you figure it out." Sexuality is important and it should be treated as such. It shouldn't just be a feature you put on the back of the box. "Hey, you can fuck everyone in this game!"

And this is without even mentioning the game's bullshit transphobia.

You have a valid point, I can see where you're coming from (me, i don't have kids) and i agree that most video games in general should not be played by or around children.

The point i was trying to make, every time patrick writes / posts articles like this, (which he has every right to, freedom of speech). It turns into a flame war. and I never see anyone just come out and say, hey - I'm an adult, and I like this stuff. I like boobs, i like curves, its a fantasy, its a game, its not real life.

So... the way to encourage diversity is to create an "army"? Got it. Ensuring understanding and tolerance through intolerant force. That certainly won't backfire and create a divisive climate of one group becoming irrationally defensive and another claiming that the first group is inherently supporting bigotry thus grinding any potential progress to a halt.

Wait, I think I've heard this before...

We definitely need better writing in games, because Manveer Heir is just a way too stereotypical character.

I agree with you in that Bioware needs to be better about representation in their games (although I haven't played Dragon Age 2, so I can't speak directly to that game's issues), but I think they ARE leading by example to an extent.

Maybe not in aware or accurate portrayals of certain characters, but at least in the fact that they're trying. Like Manveer says towards the beginning of the interview, maybe they're screwing things up, but they're making the attempt. It's not perfect, but it's better than ignoring it entirely. I know that insensitive or inaccurate character portrayals can insult, offend, or hurt people, and I'm certainly not the person to be speaking authoritatively on this, but I tend to think that you have to start somewhere. If someone sees a Bioware game and is annoyed at their representation of a certain sexuality or race, and they go make a game that better illustrates how they feel it should be done, then we're one step better than we were before.

To further the point that Manveer makes re: devs not trying to put diversity in their games for fear of getting it "wrong," I even think he's giving too much credit here. While I'm sure this reasoning applies to some developers, I think the vast majority (especially bigger companies) are not trying to branch out strictly because they don't think it will benefit their games financially. So yeah, I don't think Bioware is getting it "right" in a lot of ways, but they're making the attempt, which is a fair shot better than a lot of big development studios can say.

You better tolerate, or I'll come after you!!!

Or that, too, the fact that the context is its a video game.

@davec524: Are you a parody account?

VIDEO GAMES

BLAP BLAP BLAP

TOO HUMAN

Well Patrick publicly mocking a user on twitter made me not want to listen to this.

Good job Patrick, journalistic integrity matters! Use your twitter account to shame people who don't share your views!

1) Nobody is afraid of their favourite videogame character turning gay or female. Gordon Freeman will alyways be Gordon Freeman.

2) I also don't think that many gamers will dismiss a game out of hand just because it has a female or gay protagonist. Personally I don't care very much what character I'm playing, as long as it's interesting/fun.

3) Most gamers would like to have better characters and less stereotypes in their stories.

So where is the problem? I suppose it's the tone. The sensitivity. The self-patting on the back. Sometimes crying over minor trivial issues. Confusing backlash, harsh criticism and bad mannered teenagers on the internet with actual misogyny. Putting pressure on developers. Ignoring counterarguments, calling everybody a troll, and disabling/consoring comments. The implication that enjoying games with white male protagonists makes you sexist.

@vargasprime: For sure. They are making an attempt and I commend them for that. Dragon Age 2 is a bit of soft spot for me because of how much I loved Origins. But I do think their use of female and gay characters in Mass Effect has been (mostly) very well done.

They're a developer with a ton of pull over the industry so I don't feel too bad about holding them at a high standard. We can all do better.

So have I. I've seen documentary films about it but they were hard to understand..

..because they were in black and white and spoken in German.

@milkman: Oh yeah absolutely. I don't think that, just because they're trying to design more diversity into their games, that they're above criticism or reproach, so sorry if I implied that.

You're right, they should be held to a high standard if they're making a sincere attempt to represent groups that are consistently either ignored or shit upon. There are so few examples even now that you don't want to see them screw it up out of ignorance or laziness. All we can hope is that they, or other devs, see the criticism leveled at their games and try to do better.

Thank you for delivering the truth better than I could. If it wasn't for all of those points I'd approve of gaming journalism of a certain someone fully, 100%.

Oh good, we're reached the "these people are literally Nazis" part of the "discussion."

Why do I even bother?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBIC8JTQMMQ

@rahkas: How are misogyny, racism or homophobia directly related with video games?

And like, so like, you know like, I mean like, like so, like ya know?

@somejerk: I know you're joking (hopefully?), but it's really frustrating when these kind of jokes derail any point that I or anyone else was trying to legitimately make. If you absolutely have to mock a thread, please at least don't include other people's posts when you do it.

I see plenty of people come out with that last statement you made, and the problem is that it is too often used to brush off any discussion on the matter, and it seems to mean little more than "get over it." It's outright dismissive of the problem in that just because you aren't bothered by something, other people are expected to not be bothered either.

I hope all this outcry doesn't turn the video game industry too politically correct. Look at most of the TV dramas now, a lot of them have a stereotypical flamboyantly gay person, one asian person, one african america, one white male, a small child, etc. Trying to cover every type of person could potentially damage the gaming community and turn the make up of characters into a farce. How often do you see every facet of human culture huddled into one social space? Not often. I am definitely for new experiences and stories other than a white male being the chosen one, but the side effect could be AAA companies being so scared that they try to include everyone, which is just as boring as only designing to one group.

I agree we need to broaden the scope of games, but please, please don't try to include everyone all the time! The best thing a designer can do is tell stories about what they know. Right now, a lot of designers are male, so they tell those stories. I believe the problem will fix itself over the years as the area of game development becomes more diverse. The worse thing we can do is try to force a change, as in, pressuring game companies to be something they aren't.

@subyman: it's funny that you think gay stereotypes are politically correct

@neckbear: They aren't, but some people are so blinded by hate that it's all they can see everywhere they look.

@davec524: What you said was pretty damn hilarious though

@subyman: No one is asking all games to include all types of people. However when the vast majority is dominated by white male leads, almost all designed in a very similar way, with the occasional female characters thrown in, all designed in a very similar way, that's a problem.

It's not that one group is being left out of one game, it's that a lot of groups are being left out (or just very poorly represented) in the vast majority of games. There are more perspectives out there and types of characters that can be explored than the very redundant perspective that is predominant in what most of the industry makes.

It's kind of ironic since his PAX panel is about "internet haters".

Ugh, I wish I had the time to dissect this nut-jobs' ramblings. The short version is that he is a HUGE bigot that is too blinded by his ideology to see it. He is the epitome of group-think.

The focus on who the game's main player character is seems shortsighted. In AAA games its clear any characterization is dying. More and more games are online focused without any characterization or they are custom characters and therefore devoid of personality. In 5 years the only game with characters that aren't made in Japan will be Grand Theft Auto, which may be filled with problems but is a lot better characterized than anything Bioware has put out recently.

Most video game designers probably picked white male characters to ride the coat tails of action heroes of the 70s and 80s (when those designers were coming of age). The problem with this is that movies have a lot more to work with in a much more manageable time frame. Die Hard can use Bruce Willis' charisma and a some clever lines to fill 132 minutes. In a video game you have to last at the very least 4 hours. With this daunting task I can see why designers just made their Halo Call of Duty Gears of War Army Man look like the Terminator and hope the audiences find that cool enough to buy the game. To me Nathan Drake's (or worse Duke Nukem's) quips get really tiring an hour in. He's not Harrison Ford. When a game character looks different he or she will have to act different. How do you fill those 4 hours to actually make it worthwhile? Most of the time it seems like it doesn't matter. Mirror's Edge is cool, and its cool that you play as a woman, but would it be any different if you played a male character? I can't even remember the player character's name much less anything interesting about her except how she looks.

I hope this all changes, I don't want to just play as Bioware or Elder Scrolls slider characters and I don't just want to play as generic army men. I'd like to see different types of people and have it impact the stories the game has and ideally I'd like to see it impact the way the game plays.

I don't know dude, what if the Master Chief took off his mask at the end of Halo 5 and he was black and then he started making out with some guy? I think the backlash would be close to nuclear.

343 plz do it

Hell i dont even agree with what you were saying, but him mocking you on twitter with his friends and having it posted on the front page is just unacceptable behavior from someone who wants to be called a journalist.

And i like patrick, but the dude needs to not use twitter because he basically ruins every point he's trying to make. "Hey guys, dont be jerks on the internet, people have feelings! but hold on let me mock this dude on twitter!" wtf?

Yes, especially the way it was taken out of context. That was just really off-putting. :-( I mean whatever, Patrick's human, we all make mistakes, but it definitely rubbed me the wrong way.

Honestly curious: What was your point?

I wonder what 50 Cent would think of how Manveer characterizes his games.

@l33t_haxor: The response would be nuclear because it doesn't fit within the Halo universe. (the gay part, I doubt anyone would care if he was black and many speculate he is.)

what did he say?

Oh no. Just saw the twitter thing. Man.. I like Patrick..I'm really disappointed.

He's just writing a talk about how people should not be internet bullies while taking something out of context that someone wrote to have his friends laugh at it. I guess not putting the name is "mercy", but man...I don't know.

I hope he apologizes. I'm not sure about this whole discussion anymore.

The fact you think the only movies women enjoy are romance movies shows how clueless you are. That type of thinking is exactly the problem.

Ip Man was made in Hong Kong. What are you even talking about?

Laurence Fishburne (Morpheus) isn't the lead character. Nor is Jada Pinkett Smith, who you nicely referred to as Will Smith's wife as if that's what defines her most.

I hope your post is a parody. There's really just no way you could so thoroughly miss the point and reinfornce the shit you think you're disproving.

The "context" for that ridiculous post Patrick posted to Twitter doesn't matter. It's absurd no matter how you read it. The "context" doesn't make it any better. In fact, it might make it even worse.

he posted someones comment (out of context i might add) and had all his followers laugh at how "ignorant" he is.

It's on the front page in the twitter feed still. The tweets from his pals are worse then the guys post.

lol