Square was a Japanese video game company most famous for the creation of the Final Fantasy franchise. They merged with Enix to become Square Enix in 2003.
As many of you know, Squaresoft was once the greatest game developer for three straight generations. NES, SNES, PSone, and I guess the PS2 for the most part. Then shit hit the fan and they became bitches. Almost everyone who worked with Squaresoft bailed, with the exception of Tetsuya Nomura, who is also the sole creator of Kingdom Hearts, the main guy behind Advent Children, and sole creator of the upcoming Final Fantasy Versus XIII.
Back in the day Squaresoft never made a bad game. No one came close to touching their caliber. They reinvented the RPG with each new game and their older games hold up very well to the current day with a few exceptions (FF7 really does look like complete shit now).
Regardless, some people like to say that "Squaresoft died" after Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy X, or somewhere around then. Which is also when everyone started to bail to Mist Walker, Level-5, or Atlus, or simply retired and cashed their checks. Now Square Enix owns anime companies, arcades, and the most profitable RPG series in the world.
Some say the magic dried out. I say, you still got Versus XIII being made by a long time Squaresoft employee, so maybe there is hope?
There's always hope, but it depends on the talent they have. They'll either need to find some new people or poach them (from say Atlus), instead of being content to rest on their laurels with re-releases and retreads. That said, I thought they did a decent job with FFXIII. It wasn't phenomenal, but there was some promise there.
FF12 was the best final fantasy, by the way. FFX was terrible and FFX-2 was superior. Just so you know...
and I would disagree, I think FF8 and FF9 are pretty bad, for different reasons (FF9's battles take WAY TOO FUCKING LONG and FF8's story and dialogue is just groan worthy oh and FF8's battle system was broken as all hell)
Now the Enix magic, that's something I want to see come back. Where's ActRaiser 3? Where's a Valkyrie Profile sequel that actually improves on the first one? Where's a modern Star Ocean game that can actually compete with the modern Tales games?
I 100% agree on your estimation of the KH/FFX period being the last great games before they died out. I would put their problem down to the way in which their creative team (of the same people the past 10-15 years - minus Sakaguchi) rules over the company and seemingly no one with fresh ideas is getting a say, or at least that's what I'd like to think, instead of just coming to the dismal conclusion that their employees have terrible ideas. I used to think the sun shined out of Tetsuya Nomura's ass, but I don't think it would be unfair to say that his character designs are getting repetitive and boring. His game ideas are no better. For example, its well documented that one of the most tedious problems with the KH series is the camera control, and when quizzed about it, Nomura stated (though this is not word for word, but close to it) that he doesn't consider what people think is wrong with his games when he is making them (which one might say is fair enough, though another would call him ignorant).
Here is what I think needs to happen. A) they need to stop alleging that they can't remake FF7 because it would take too long to do - that's a massssssive cop out. B) they need to let in some westerners with fresh ideas who are bilingual into their company to help cross the void between the Japanese and Western markets. C) they need to stop remaking FF1-6 continuously - this cannot be stated enough.
The company used to rely on their cut scenes and amazing graphics to get them by, but console and PC graphics are so impressive now (and hand held with the NGP) that they can't fall back on that, they have no lead on other companies. So if they are just going to keep busting out cheesy story lines and characters with hours of non-interactive cut scenes and boring game play, they'll be going no where fast. It's probably too far off the mark to suggest that if they continue like this that they would go out of business, as they have their hand in making toys and such which go over well in Japan *sigh* -_- , but I almost wish that it was a possibility so they'd be forced to get their act together. When I was a kid playing FF9, 11 years ago, I decided then and there that I wanted to be a games designer and I wanted to work for Square. I'm now studying games design, but I wouldn't dare touch Square with a 10 foot pole. I think that speaks for itself.
They've been capitalizing on the past for years. How many versions of FF4 have there been? If you want to live 15 years in the past, the good news is so does Square Enix. So get a DS and live in the past.
I think the major problem is that there just isn't enough consumer interest for JRPGs anymore. You can't make a game as expensive as FF XIII and have it only sell in Japan. As far as I know, only Final Fantasy, and maybe Dragon Quest, have a dedicated non-Japanese fan base that is strong enough to support the huge development costs of a modern game. This means that Square won't ever put its A team on making a new game. They will just remake Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest until they kill that fanbase as well. Look how many JRPGs come out here (North America and Europe) that no one cares about. If Square made a super expensive innovative new IP and it failed to sell, they would be almost as screwed as when they invested in The Spirits Within.
Now the Enix magic, that's something I want to see come back. Where's ActRaiser 3? Where's a Valkyrie Profile sequel that actually improves on the first one? Where's a modern Star Ocean game that can actually compete with the modern Tales games? "
I kinda think there shouldn't be any more star ocean games after that last one that was super super creepy. eugh.
I think the biggest problem is Japan doesn't "fight back" but they keep buying the crap, ala Square keeps releasing. Sure, we think it sucks, but from a company standpoint its #BANK . I agree that I don't think they had an exclusivity on RPG awesomeness, but they still did have something about them that you didn't automatically assume that their products were garbage. I enjoyed FFXII but I thought FFXIII was one of the worst games I played last year. A lot of people are pretty snobbish when it comes to the Kingdom Hearts series, but they don't seem to understand its not for us, it literally is for kids.
I don't think that they will ever regain any significant ground as this generation seems to show they have more of a mobile/handheld mindset opposed to core console experiences. Also, they have much more competition than they did in the past and that effects a lot.
" FF12 was the best final fantasy, by the way. FFX was terrible and FFX-2 was superior. Just so you know..."
You're crazy. "
Second that.
And as far as the magic being gone, the loss of Sakaguchi and many other key people has definitely changed things for the worse. They just don't seem to have a handle anymore on what made them great. I doubt very much that they'll be able to get it back either, especially the heights they achieved during the PS1 days. It seems that since they merged with Enix, Square is just a name to slap on the box; the Enix franchises are still done right.
I loved 10, and I like what they were trying with 12 (didn't finish it though). What it's going to come down to is if they start losing at home in Japan. Right now they are still a very strong force in their home country, and that can keep them going for awhile without making drastic changes. If that changes, and foreign games start taking an even bigger share of their market, then they might start taking bigger risks.
" They've been capitalizing on the past for years. How many versions of FF4 have there been?
Thought I'd try to count em just for fun.
1. Original Japanese version 2. US port (re-released in Japan as FF4 Easytype) 3. Final Fantasy Chronicles PS1 port 4. Wonderswan Color remake 5. Final Fantasy Advance GBA remake 6. DS remake 7. Upcoming PSP remake
I think that's all of em. And there's the After Years stuff too...
Also I forgot to mention that the best PS1 RPG is Persona 2: Innocent Sin, at least of what I've played :P (all the PS1 FF RPG's and most of the square collection)
1. Original Japanese version 2. US port (re-released in Japan as FF4 Easytype) 3. Final Fantasy Chronicles PS1 port 4. Wonderswan Color remake 5. Final Fantasy Advance GBA remake 6. DS remake 7. Upcoming PSP remake
I think that's all of em. And there's the After Years stuff too...
You forgot the Virtual Console release, the "Final Fantasy Collection" japan-only PSX re-release, the "Final Fantasy Anthology" EU-PSX-release, and, if you will, the fan translations.
FFIV: The After Years also got two releases, for Wiiware and for mobile phones.
Sir, if I ever meet you, I'm gonna buy you a beer. Providing you're old enough to drink, I respect your FF opinions but I ain't getting busted for buying booze for minors.
I too miss Squaresoft... there is nothing like turning on my SNES and seeing that beautiful Squaresoft logo... brings a tear to my eye knowing i'll never see it again!
What has happened to Square reminds me of what has happened to Rare. I don't think we'll ever see them return to what they once were. It's extremely difficult to replace that kind of talent.
Hmm...anyone remember the SquareSoft game Brave Fencer Musashi for the PSOne? That was one SquareSoft game that was addicting to play and explore in back when I played it each and every time. I wish that Square Enix (what Square and SquareSoft have become over the years) would go back to making awesome, original games that were both fun and challenging to play, not sub-par games that are all about the graphics and not enough about the story and plot?
Now the Enix magic, that's something I want to see come back. Where's ActRaiser 3? Where's a Valkyrie Profile sequel that actually improves on the first one? Where's a modern Star Ocean game that can actually compete with the modern Tales games? "
Whether Square Enix still has or can get the old magic back depends on what you're looking for. What is it that people want from them? I thought Final Fantasy XIII was great, Nier is a crazy, fun game, and Dragon Quest IX is fucking fantastic. And those were all released last year.
@Hailinel: What do you want me to do? I've already clearly explained, through economic principles and anecdotal evidence, why I believe the Japanese gaming industry is in heavy decline. Also I fully explained why America is intimately linked with the vast majority of dictatorships in the Middle East and throughout the world. It is not my problem that you have no academic background in International Relations.
" @Hailinel: What do you want me to do? I've already clearly explained, through economic principles and anecdotal evidence, why I believe the Japanese gaming industry is in heavy decline. Also I fully explained why America is intimately linked with the vast majority of dictatorships in the Middle East and throughout the world. It is not my problem that you have no academic background in International Relations.
"
Where? Certainly not in this thread. You're blowing smoke.
And once again, pinning blame on America alone as the cause of the problems in Libya is hilariously ignorant.
@Hailinel: Please, don't play coy, you know I've said what I just did about the japanese gaming industry multiple times before and defended it each time. I'm not going to waste my time going into this again with you. Also I never said America was the full on cause of what was happening in Libya, what I said was that America played a major role in allowing Ghaddafi to get to where he is now.
" @Hailinel:Please, don't play coy, you know I've said what I just did about the japanese gaming industry multiple times before and defended it each time. I'm not going to waste my time going into this again with you. Also I never said America was the full on cause of what was happening in Libya, what I said was that America played a major role in allowing Ghaddafi to get to where he is now. "
No I don't. I don't recall any of that. As far as I know, you never have provided any detailed reasoning for this argument. If you don't want to bother explaining your position, fine, but that really only means that you've got nothing.
What I do recall is that in the previous thread on Libya, you were very intent on pinning blame on America while ignoring every other western nation that engaged in trade and/or diplomacy with Ghaddafi.
@Hailinel:Pssst. It should be clear by now that he doesn't actually have any of those opinions, and has just been trolling you for a reaction. Which you have been giving him in spades, since you take everything too seriously.
P.S. I played through Metroid: Other M last month. It was pretty shite. For real.
@Hailinel: Again not my fault that you have a terrible memory. I've back it up before and I'm not going to waste my time repeating myself. No I didn't deny or say anything about other countries playing a significant role, all I said was that the US played a major role in allowed Ghaddafi to get where he is. Now you're just trying to put words in my mouth. I don't know why you ALWAYS have to respond to me and try to start an argument when I really don't care for having one.
" @Hailinel: Again not my fault that you have a terrible memory. I've back it up before and I'm not going to waste my time repeating myself. No I didn't deny or say anything about other countries playing a significant role, all I said was that the US played a major role in allowed Ghaddafi to get where he is. Now you're just trying to put words in my mouth. I don't know why you ALWAYS have to respond to me and try to start an argument when I really don't care for having one. "
Because you say stupid, ignorant things. Not that I don't on occasion, but seriously. Saying 99% of Japanese games suck these days and not making any effort to back your statement up is pretty damn absurd.
I think Squaresoft should do what DoubleFine has done. Forget about the summer blockbuster style title for a bit and try making some smaller arcade titles.
I think the "Ol' Square Magic" could really shine in this space.
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