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    Super Street Fighter IV

    Game » consists of 28 releases. Released Feb 26, 2010

    Super Street Fighter IV is a standalone update to its predecessor, adding new characters, modes, and online features.

    How would you make Super better for learning/practicing?

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    damodar

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    #1  Edited By damodar

    A lot of people, Jeff included, have mentioned how Super Street Fighter is somewhat lacking in information on how to actually learn the game and/or improve. It has the challenge trials, but they don't give you info on the circumstances for performing a lot of them. It's easy enough for experienced players to figure out that it needs to be in the corner, etc, but I can see how lacking information could make a lot of those trials frustrating to beginners. They wouldn't necessarily know that a lot of Sim's trials require you to be holding back to do non-stretched attacks etc, or the spacing of certain links, ie Gief LK LK LK can't be done from too close. Even things like Focus crumple > Ultra, they might not know to dash after hit etc. 
     
    I think there's plenty of great information to be had on the internet, here, and plenty of other places, but I would like to see the game pick up a bit more of the slack. 
     
    I think it would be cool if it came with some tutorial videos that explain the absolute basics and on to more advanced stuff, cancelling, links, frame advantage etc, footsies, zoning, plinking, kara moves, option select, blah blah, all that good stuff. Maybe at least a glossary of that more advanced stuff. Being able to read that and know "Oh! I'm getting crossed up!" would help ease some frustration, I think. I would also think it would greatly benefit players to have watchable examples of each challenge trial, with the button inputs viewable, so that you know that, for example, Rufus has to keep holding towards to get that galactic tornado to connect etc. 
     
    I also think it'd be really great to have a mode that was something like you can set up a custom scenario like in the challenge trials and maybe set a number of times you want to have to complete it. It could be a good way to practice complex links or it could be as simple as executing a hooligan combination 100 times to get the motion down.
      
    As Jeff also pointed out, the ability to search for specific matchups to see how to deal with it with your character in the replays would be great. If you're getting frustrated because you don't know how to deal with a certain attack with your main, you could find out from the game before having to jump on a forum.

    Obviously certain aspects of the game basically have to be learned by playing against other people, but there's some steps that could be taken to make being a beginner easier and maybe make practicing more advanced stuff a little better too. 
     
    These are just some basic ideas I've had. I'm not hating on the game, as I think it does offer some cool tools for practice and learning, this is more just like a dream list of what I'd like to see. Now I want to hear what the GB SF community would want!

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    eldiax

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    #2  Edited By eldiax

    For starters, all challenges should have videos with input onscreen so you can know what the challenge expects you to do.

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    s10129107

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    #3  Edited By s10129107

    make little lights go off to the proper timing for the links

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    gosukiller

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    #4  Edited By gosukiller

    I would improve the challenge mode by:
    1) Return the on-screen commands. I don't want to have to pause every time to look up what exactly I was supposed to do. This was in SF4 Vanilla.
    2) Put in an instruction video with my character doing the actual challange, so I can get some timing hints.
     
    Replays:
    Make a proper replay mode. Not a "go here to see random matches of mostly 2 scrubs playing 2 characters you don't care about." I don't want to input 'Give me all boss character replays' I want to input  "Give me all M.Bison replays by the highest ranked M.Bisons". The current system looks like it was designed by japanese people, for heavens sake!

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    lordofultima

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    #5  Edited By lordofultima

    It's already fine for learning and practicing, but for absolute noobies they should have a real in-depth tutorial.

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    EpicSteve

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    #6  Edited By EpicSteve

    This game is not noobie friendly at all. It needs video tutorials and explanation on when/how to use moves. No one that doesn't play fighting games understands how the hell to even execute a combo. 

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    NevereatNirnroot

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    #7  Edited By NevereatNirnroot
    @EpicSteve said:
    "This game is not noobie friendly at all. It needs video tutorials and explanation on when/how to use moves. No one that doesn't play fighting games understands how the hell to even execute a combo.  "

     hella right 
     
    it should explain each moves uses like anti air overhead, wheather its good to tick into a throw, giving this knowledge to someone before they get made to learn over the next 100 or so losses would save a lot of frustration.
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    MysteriousBob

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    #8  Edited By MysteriousBob

    How to perform a quarter circle movement. 
    Seriously, thats the only thing that stops my friends from playing any 2D fighters. I keep having to explain how to do it and as soon as they get it, they give up for some reason.

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    Gaff

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    #9  Edited By Gaff
    @eldiax said:
    " For starters, all challenges should have videos with input onscreen so you can know what the challenge expects you to do. "
    This. Some kind of ghost mode for the Challenges. What would also be nice would be like what Aksys Systems did with the Blazblue Limited Edition: A Blu Ray disc with simple tutorials for all the characters, culled from the brightest minds of the community. Also, fix that stupid command menu! Barring some kind of horrible mutagenic epidemic, I'm not going to be playing more than one character at the same time, so don't make me select the character I'm playing every time I want to have a look at the move list! 
     
    The only tutorial I thought was any good was the VF4 one on the PS2: You have the option of just going through the move list, executing them all in a nice long sequence, or select one, lock it down and keep trying until you get it right. It would also give feedback on what you'd be doing wrong ("Try inputting the command faster" etc). 
     
    Or am I confusing the command training with an actual tutorial?
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    LiquidSaiyan3

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    #10  Edited By LiquidSaiyan3
    @Gaff said:
    The only tutorial I thought was any good was the VF4 one on the PS2  
     I agree with this statement. 
     
    Where I think the tutorial stuff in VF4 really shone was in the Trial mode; it was basically VF 101. They started out with the basics and then slowly ramped it up in complexity with stuff like buffering inputs, throw escapes, multiple throw escapes, crumpling, etc. 
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    yetiantics

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    #11  Edited By yetiantics

    Most of these are solid ideas. 
    I for one would like to see online training/sparring mode. 
     
    Cus training mode with a 2nd player is great for situational practices. But your friends/some family can't go to your place everyday.
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    Epic_Nerd_Man101

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    #12  Edited By Epic_Nerd_Man101

    1.) go to  eventhubs.com
    2.) click on super street fighter 4
    3.) click on character of choice
    4.) Observe characters bread and butter combos or cross ups and educate yourself by learning advanced techniques and strategys, (ex. spacing, cross ups, dash cancels etc)
    5.) to to training mode and practice these combos/cross ups and learn the spacing/timing of your character.
     Follow these steps and you will go from a rookie to an average player in no time (becoming a expert takes a lot of practice and you must have mastered the advanced techniques/mind games).

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    Heartagram

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    #13  Edited By Heartagram

    It would be nice to have a clearer indication of why my combos work sometimes and other times not.  
     
    Half of the time i do the right movements but it doesn't register.

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    ProfessorMurder

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    #14  Edited By ProfessorMurder

    I really hope a group of really special guys would borrow a page from mainstream sports and highlight and analyze significant matches.  I thought it was really interesting when NBC had tony dungy break down football replays on and how and why certain plays were successful.  Or maybe something like how this guy breaks down chess matches (I don't even play chess but jrobichess has such interesting commentary on games it's enjoyable to watch):    http://www.youtube.com/user/jrobichess  
    I say 'really special' because it would guys who are well versed in the game, do their homework on matches and the players, and know how to present it to the audience (good on the mic, good with the 'madden drawing arrows' graphics) .  I don't know who's big in the community that could do these things.  It would give weight, significance, and a cataloged video to all the information that the OP would like to have (pointing out BnB combos, failure to space correctly, footsie fishing, option selects, etc.)

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    napalm

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    #15  Edited By napalm

    If you didn't learn in Street Fighter IV, tough shit.

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    Chubbaluphigous

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    #16  Edited By Chubbaluphigous

    Context. Context Context.  I want to know the whens and why.

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    Gaff

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    #17  Edited By Gaff
    @Napalm:   
    If you didn't learn it in Street Fighter III: Third Strike, tough shit. 
    If you didn't learn it in Street Fighter III: Second Impact, tough shit. Etc.
     
    There's a reason why the fighting scene died out in the mid to late 90s. The death of arcades has something to do with it but not all of it.
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    napalm

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    #18  Edited By napalm
    @Gaff said:

    " @Napalm:   If you didn't learn it in Street Fighter III: Third Strike, tough shit. If you didn't learn it in Street Fighter III: Second Impact, tough shit. Etc. There's a reason why the fighting scene died out in the mid to late 90s. The death of arcades has something to do with it but not all of it. "

    Yeah, it's totally 'cause you were watching all of Wong's pro videos working your ass off to become just like him. That's totally why it died. *eye roll*    
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    lordofultima

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    #19  Edited By lordofultima
    @Gaff said:
    " @Napalm:   If you didn't learn it in Street Fighter III: Third Strike, tough shit. If you didn't learn it in Street Fighter III: Second Impact, tough shit. Etc. There's a reason why the fighting scene died out in the mid to late 90s. The death of arcades has something to do with it but not all of it. "
    The fighting scene died? I'd say it's bigger than ever man...you're not looking very hard. EVO had over 1000 people for SFIV last year, it's bound to have even more for SSFIV.
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    Gaff

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    #20  Edited By Gaff
    @Napalm: I could say that the death of arcades deprived a lot of potential new players of a training ground where they could socialize, hand down knowledge and cut their teeth on a semi-regular basis. I could paraphrase Seth Killian in saying that the learning curve had gotten to a point where you've had to follow most previous iterations of be able to start playing a new entry. I could say that every genre has to accommodate new players, to hook fresh blood so the fanbase isn't in danger of dying out. 
     
    Or I could say that the general air of elitism associated with gaming, coupled with the steadily arcane tome of knowledge, is downright hostile towards other kids who, in the hardcore's eyes, want to play with their toys. 
     
    Also, video? Over the internet? In the mid to late 90s? I was just happy if I had enough floppy disks with me to leech FAQs from Kao Megura's site from the University's computer lab. I never did find a way to save those Realmedia files. Oh well. 
     
    @lordofultima: Mid to late 90s ;)
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    napalm

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    #21  Edited By napalm
    @Gaff: If I recall correctly the first two iterations of III weren't released in the U.S., and if they were, they did a small amount to supply a niche market. Jared has been quoted saying Alpha 3 killed competitive fighting games in the 90s. I was still 13 or 14 around that time, so I wouldn't know. But regardless, judging by your first sentence in the post, you still point to the death of arcades, which isn't necessarily Capcom/Konami/Namco/whoeverelsedoesfightinggamesthen's fault.
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    lilbigsupermario

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    #22  Edited By lilbigsupermario

    For the Trials, SSFIV should have like a demonstration for each trial on how it should be done.  I remember the Tekken games had this for the 10-hit combos.  However, it would remove the aspect of Street Fighter that you have to really work hard to get better in the game.  It's not newbie friendly, but it's also not impossible to be good at it.
     
    And I wish they also included an online Training mode where 2 players can train and practice combos online even if it's purely via invite.  I had an instance before that a PSN friend wanted to show me how to do the combo, but it was a waste of time to do an online endless battle for just the two of us and just to completely show the combo, we had to build the meters first.

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    xyzygy

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    #23  Edited By xyzygy

    I find that I go up against a lot of guys online who don't even give me a chance to fight back, like their combos are so long that I literally can't move.  
     
    If you have thousands of PP (them) and you're fighting an opponent who has like 100 PP(me), what is the point? If they want a training dummy to do their combos on that's what training is for. I'm not mad because I'm losing or anything because I obviously don't expect myself to win against players that are that advanced yet, but I just don't get how they can get any satisfaction out of winning a fight like that. And I'm also not asking that they go easy on me. But I think the game should have more of a skill based system rather than pitting you up against absolute pros. Flushes, a guy who is apparently well known in some circles, was my very first SSF4 online fight.
     
    I do try to take every opportunity possible to learn when to block and I try to learn as much as I can from these fights though. Still, sometimes it's just overwhelming and I don't catch a lot of things.
     
    But with all that being said, I don't think Capcom should have to hold our hands when actually learning SSF4. The past SF games I've played had no tutorials and people seemed to play it just fine. I think that us noobs just have to work harder. I do notice that I'm becoming a lot better by just working hard at the challenges, especially with Guile. I really love using him because he doesn't have too many moves, I love how I can play him defensively, and his punches and kicks just seem to click with me. I just need to get a few more things down (remembering to air throw, learning to mix up the speeds of my Sonic Booms, timing two Flash Kicks after each other, the motion for Double Flash, etc) but I can pull off Flash Kicks and Sonic Booms 100% of the time and I can switch from offensive to defensive pretty well. All of my online wins (all 10 of them, out of 73) have been with him.

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    lordofultima

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    #24  Edited By lordofultima
    @Gaff: Dying implies that something is dead. The rational realm of existence excludes the paranormal, including but not limited to zombie-like undead states of matter. 
     
    @xyzygy: The point is fighting, I don't care if you have 3PP, if your match shows up in my search I'm going to play you. There's no way to know how many points you have until the match begins anyway, and PP means absolutely nothing, since I find players with high PP/BP suck pretty bad. Flushes is anything but a pro, no offense to him of course. We're all still learning the game like you.
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    Gaff

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    #25  Edited By Gaff
    @Napalm: Keeping it short for fear of thread derailment and lack of sleep (and the Bombcast finally showed up, YAY!), the problem with SFIII's arcade release was more the jump from the CPS2 boards ("cartridge") to CPS3 (CD). If I remember correctly, while the CDs themselves were fairly cheap to make, the drives were extremely expensive. Also, most fans weren't happy seeing only Ryu and Ken return. Arcades were already in a jam: home consoles were getting more and more powerful, arcade machines were getting more and more expensive to purchase and maintain (seeing stuff like 8 linked Daytona USA in my late teens was awesome but damn, that stuff had to be expensive to setup!). Also, I personally blame the rise of DDR.  
    So when they died, the fighting fans lost their playground: instead of happen-stance rubbing elbows over an arcade machine and meeting that way, they just went into homes until stuff like SRK and EVO started getting serious. I do remember something about EVO declining nonetheless after Third Strike and before 4 (KoF, Guilty Gear never did draw much attention in Evo, I think?), but I'd have to trudge through some podcast for that. I'd have to listen to Jared's appearance on the 'Cast (I assume that comment was there, somewhere?), but I have no idea how Alpha 3 killed competitive fighting. 
     
    @lordofultima: More a process of getting to the state of death, to be honest. It probably would've ended up like that if that upstart Ono didn't get a chance to make 4. Curses! The genre would've slipped away if it weren't for that meddling producer and those pesky kids!
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    lordofultima

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    #26  Edited By lordofultima
    @Gaff: touche
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    xyzygy

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    #27  Edited By xyzygy
    @lordofultima: I know what you mean but surely those who have lots of PP have much more experience than myself, who has a tiny amount. That's what I'm getting at. But like I said, I try to learn as much as I can from them.
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    werhil

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    #28  Edited By werhil

    I'd love to see something on the level of the Chessmaster tutorials, with drills, game commentary and general theory from experts.  For completely new SF (or fighting game) players the trails aren't that great and the arcade mode might be counterproductive.  

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    animateria

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    #29  Edited By animateria
    @xyzygy said:
    " @lordofultima: I know what you mean but surely those who have lots of PP have much more experience than myself, who has a tiny amount. That's what I'm getting at. But like I said, I try to learn as much as I can from them. "
    I found going for ranking battles much easier since you can set up people with the same amount of points as you have. I mean sure you'll occasionally meet that guy that was probably practicing for hours on training mode (Ibuki mirror match, I did win a round but it's tough against someone who has much better execution with the vortex), but overall I found fair competition.
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    Icil

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    #30  Edited By Icil

    Arcade request during training =)

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    damodar

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    #31  Edited By damodar

    It would be cool if you could had a start/stop recording option for training mode and then you could output the replays as video files to make life easier for the guys that want to do video tutorials etc.
     
    I think really the biggest problem is the divide between people who are active in fighting communities, read about it, discuss on forums etc, vs the new players who don't really access any of that info and aren't aware of how their game is lacking. But I suppose that's ultimately not something the game can help all that much and if you want to get good at the game, you have to go out of your way to knowledge up. This thread was really a hypothetical best possible scenario wishlist anyway. I do think little videos of the trials would be helpful though. At least for some of them, like Virtua Fighter 5. Since a lot of them are so situational, that would really help, knowing you have to be in the corner or that hakan has to be oiled etc. 
     
    Off topic, but should I have gotten the mod/staff has viewed/posted in your thread quest for this thread?

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    CHIEFMEGADETH666

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    #32  Edited By CHIEFMEGADETH666
    @eldiax said:
    " For starters, all challenges should have videos with input onscreen so you can know what the challenge expects you to do. "
    i agree 100%

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