It's the fact that you become the leader of that group at the end. My one character is the leader of The Companions and Thieves gulid, The listener for the Dark Brotherhood, the Archmage of the college, and the guy that basically single handedly stopped the civil war. That's kinda stupid when you think about it. Letting you only do one per save file/character is not the answer either. The answer is better storytelling quite frankly. I would find it much better and believable if you didn't become the boss of all them at the end. 
 
Yes you went on this big adventure and basically saved the guild, but dude you just joined the guild yesterday. Being the listener for the Dark brotherhood actually makes sense. That is one "you become the boss" scenario I can get behind. The rest of them are just "Hey the old boss died one way or the other. You should be the new boss." You know forget that there are a dozen people that outrank you, have been there longer, and actually know how to run the guild. The guy that's been there for two days should be fine as the new boss. Becoming the boss of the guild is completely pointless anyways. Beside NPCs saying "Hey your the new boss huh?" nothing changes.  It's not like you actually get any control over the guild or anything.   
 
The other problem is that all the guilds excepted The Companions are in the shitter. The Dark Brotherhood, the Thieves guild and the Mage's College, are no where near as big and fancy as they were 200 years ago. You do the quests and you save them all, but you don't really get to see back at their shinning glory. It's the same just everyone is more happy. 
 
I've played Skyrim for 70 hours on the PS3 no less, and have hardly any bugs at all. Skyrim is a fantastic game, but these things I think are dumb.

It's the fact that you become the leader of that group at the end. My one character is the leader of The Companions and Thieves gulid, The listener for the Dark Brotherhood, the Archmage of the college, and the guy that basically single handedly stopped the civil war. That's kinda stupid when you think about it. Letting you only do one per save file/character is not the answer either. The answer is better storytelling quite frankly. I would find it much better and believable if you didn't become the boss of all them at the end. 
 
Yes you went on this big adventure and basically saved the guild, but dude you just joined the guild yesterday. Being the listener for the Dark brotherhood actually makes sense. That is one "you become the boss" scenario I can get behind. The rest of them are just "Hey the old boss died one way or the other. You should be the new boss." You know forget that there are a dozen people that outrank you, have been there longer, and actually know how to run the guild. The guy that's been there for two days should be fine as the new boss. Becoming the boss of the guild is completely pointless anyways. Beside NPCs saying "Hey your the new boss huh?" nothing changes.  It's not like you actually get any control over the guild or anything.   
 
The other problem is that all the guilds excepted The Companions are in the shitter. The Dark Brotherhood, the Thieves guild and the Mage's College, are no where near as big and fancy as they were 200 years ago. You do the quests and you save them all, but you don't really get to see back at their shinning glory. It's the same just everyone is more happy. 
 
I've played Skyrim for 70 hours on the PS3 no less, and have hardly any bugs at all. Skyrim is a fantastic game, but these things I think are dumb.

Collage

Thank you, I now know that Mercer will die, that I will take his place, and that I will become Astrid's boss. You've made the game much more enjoyable for me by telling me how these endeavors will end.

Thank you, I now know that Mercer will die, that I will take his place, and that I will become Astrid's boss. You've made the game much more enjoyable for me by telling me how these endeavors will end.

So you'd rather do a bunch of quests for these guilds and then still be a peon. Interesting.

@AhmadMetallic said:

Thank you, I now know that Mercer will die and that I will become Astrid's boss, you've made the game much more enjoyable to me by telling me how these endeavors will end.

Well at least one of those things is wrong so don't worry too much about it.

@AhmadMetallic said:

Thank you, I now know that Mercer will die and that I will become Astrid's boss, you've made the game much more enjoyable to me by telling me how these endeavors will end.

Well at least one of those things is wrong so don't worry too much about it.

can anyone make a good case as to why becoming the boss makes any sense?

nope I think it's dumb too

@kingzetta: I stated this many times, so yes this is correct. It's lame, and makes me question the world. In a game where the world is the most impressive thing, that's a problem.

My other big problem is even after you become the boss there'll be one guy who says "So you're the new guy, huh?"

Once you finish the main story and the guild quests you might as well be god but people still talk down to you.

I agree, but if Bethesda went and didn't allow you to be the leader of any of the said groups, a lot more people would be a lot more pissed off. The real problem with the college is that the whole story sucks.

i agree. honestly, you should become a high ranking member, perhaps the right-hand man or something, but not the leader.

I agree with this. I love the guilds in the Elder Scrolls but it just seems so unfriendly to lore to allow you to be the head of ALL the guilds. I would have liked to see that every character is allowed to be the head of ONE guild. Once you become the head of one guild, all the others will limit you to either second highest or even just a common lower member.

Also, it would be nice if the world recognized you as the head of a guild. I am the archmage and people are telling me I should check out the college. I mean really, I'm wearing the robes for christ's sake.

@musclerider said:

My other big problem is even after you become the boss there'll be one guy who says "So you're the new guy, huh?"

Once you finish the main story and the guild quests you might as well be god but people still talk down to you.

Reminds me of the Mages Guild in Oblivion. "So you must be the newest member, eh?", every single time I traveled to the college after becoming archmage.

OT: I definitely think they should just give you a choice at the end as to whether or not you become the guildmaster. I wouldn't mind being the leader of just one guild, but when your character is basically Mr. Skyrim it gets a little absurd.

Same thing in Oblivion, I was the champion of Cyrodill but also a cold hearted murderer.

Aw so much agreement, it's delicious.

It felt like bethesda put a lot of effort into the daedric quests & mage guild questline and then just madly rushed through the others. The psijic order and orb were interesting. None of the other guilds had anything similar.

Companion quests - "suddenly, werewolves". that basically sums it up. out of the blue you discover that the companions are werewolves. you never see any adverse effects of becoming one; and all it does at lower levels is act as a cheap alternative to a horse. Bethesda evidently put a lot of effort into animating the werewolf model; which is rather nice. Finishing these guys opens up pest control quests...

Thief/Assasin's db guild - these are the worst imo; mindless irrelevant quests that don't really progress any story; and then suddenly the leader turns out to be a betrayer and then you become the new leader. Again finishing them opens up radiant quests.

It's sad really; even in oblivion the guild quests were great; let's not even mention morrowind.

You never really feel a part of any of the guilds - you can become archmage without even casting any spells......

There isn't any choice or consequences in any of the quests; and once you become leader it just unlocks more radiant quests.

yes

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I must disagree to a small extent. I think having your character having the abiltity to accomplish so many great things and become such an important figure more beckons to ancient hero myths. Look at characters like Hercules or the various knights of the round table, those guys did all sorts of ridiculously big time huge feats. While I think it would be better to give you the option of declining a guild master position or maybe even nominate someone else, I think having the ability to become the leader of several groups helps make us players feel special.
What I think the real problem is that attaining this high level is ultimately pointless. While you may 'run'the theives guild or whatever, you don't really have any power. Maybe an assassin's creed brotherhood-esque mechanic where you send out guild members to clear a dungeon or do a side quest could be cool.

I think that the problems with the faction system could have been mitigated if advancement in the guilds was based on skill levels in addition to completing quest lines, as it had been in Morrowind. If you needed say, one magic skill at 100 and three magic skills at 70 to become archmage of the College, and so on for the other factions, becoming the head of every guild would be a lot less feasible.

I agree with all these points but honestly Ive only become archmage of the college and using my own discretion and avoiding all other guild storylines. It seems to work well roleplaying-wise. Dragonborn and Archmage is believable enough. But you will also have to keep the piece of mind to leave quests unfinished, and be done with your character at some point. I'm at this point now with my mage. I will miss him and try another approach at the land of Skyrim.

It is silly that you become the leader but it never bothered me.

Eh, it's only silly when you stop and think about it. It's pretty normal in fantasy settings, and since the TES games are basically 100-hour power trips, it's to be expected.

I like to think of the protagonists in TES games as something similar to ta'veren in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. Destined to shape the future of the world and drag everyone in their path along with them.

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Ta%27veren

But it was waaaaay worse in Oblivion. Not only you became the leader of all the factions and helped save the world, but you become the new Sheogorath. The new fucking Daedric Prince of Madness, Sheogorath. It's what the crew was talking about in this weeks Bombcast: not everyone wants to be Luke Skywalker. In Skyrim, the world revolves around you. At least in Oblivion it's not you who actually saves the world, but Martin Septim. This is exactly why I play different characters, one for each Guild (or in the case of my rogue, Dark Brotherhood and Thieves' Guild).

@kingzetta said:

When will they get it right? "Thane" is not a proper nobility title, like Count or Duke. There can be several Thanes in one city. "Thegns" in Germanic societies were the warrior-noble class whose economy depended on the king. A sort of vassal in Feudal times. The Dragonborn can become a Thane in most (if not all) the Holds of Skyrim, not just Whiterun.

But, hey, memes are stupid.

I was telling my roommate this exact thing.

It would be like if Shepard became a quarian Admiral, a krogan warlord, President of Earth, the new Shadow Broker, Detective Chief Inspector of C-Sec, the head of Cerberus, an asari Matriarch, leader of all three mercenary groups, the geth cyber king, and a Citadel Councillor.

Bethesda is really good at world-building and creating things to explore, really bad at actual storytelling.

I have to agree. If it were up to me the various guilds would be mutually exclusive and in addition to performing guild duties you'd have to meet a certain level of aptitude in relevant skills in order to increase in rank.

I understand the design decision for not making them mutually exclusive. Not everyone wants to or has time to play through the game once for each major class like I do. I can impose that exclusivity on myself (which I do) so I'm okay with the way it is for the most part. The part of the story where you have to speak to Urag gro-Shub was handled very poorly though. I don't want to spoil anything, so I hope those that have already spoken to Urag know what I mean here.

The rank part is not something we have any control over since there are no ranks. We go from The Steward to The Boss and the guilds feel cheap and shallow because of it.

Pretty sure Bethesda gave up trying to have half decent writing a long time ago. It's the main reason I can't get into their games tbqh

@AhmadMetallic said:

Thank you, I now know that Mercer will die, that I will take his place, and that I will become Astrid's boss. You've made the game much more enjoyable for me by telling me how these endeavors will end.

Actually, Astrid dies, so there ya go haha

EDIT: Oh and I mean OR DOES SHE? DUN DUN DUN

Why not have a diverging path storyline, where you work with and unite different guilds and factions in some respects to defeat a greater threat? This seems to be the pitfall that I am reading, is that the story is just becoming the leader of all of these factions. That's not bad in itself, but it seems a bit redundant and a little archaic, especially when you're doing it multiple times.
 
I've only played a small amount of Skyrim, but that's my two cents. 
 
@Brodehouse: Is this the main quest in Skyrim? Becoming the leader of all factions?

@Napalm Considering how many people seem to think its a point of pride that they completely ignore the main storyline, they might as well be. Never encountered a game where people thought it was a mark of quality to ignore the main story.

@kingzetta: You wrote:

The other problem is that all the guilds excepted The Companions are in the shitter. The Dark Brotherhood, the Thieves guild and the Mage's College, are no where near as big and fancy as they were 200 years ago. You do the quests and you save them all, but you don't really get to see back at their shinning glory. It's the same just everyone is more happy.

This isn't completely accurate. I left the Thieves guild better than it had been in its heyday. If you just do the main guild questline, the guild stays struggling. If you do keep doing the not-so-exciting radiant missions for the guild, it unlocks special quests for controlling Whiterun, Markarth, Windhelm and Solitude. Each time you complete one of these, the guild gets better and better. The main advantage is that by the end, there are extra fences in the world, each with 4000 gold, and it's easy to get away with crimes in other cities.

The radiant missions were a bit of a grind, but now the Thieves guild has turned into a convenient hub for my post-guild activities.

@Brodehouse said:

Never encountered a game where people thought it was a mark of quality to ignore the main story.

This has always weirded me out about Bethesda games. It seems like "I played for 40 hours before doing any of the main content!" is supposed to mean "There is so much content in this game!", but I can't help but also hear "Ugh, I don't want to play a Bethesda main quest, so I spent 40 hours trying to find better things to do."

Yeah, kinda.

It would help in the instances where you do become big boss if there were sometimes a few proper missions after that. Stuff you would just not be capable of pulling off on your own - not 'You're the boss, now go kill this ice wolf in somebody's house.'

Feel the same way. There's something wrong about helping the Storm Cloaks and the Empire at the same time. Unless you are full out pulling a double cross, but you would suspect that either faction would start to get suspicious.

The bombcast agrees with me today.

While it is unfortunate that the guild quests aren't longer and more involved, don't you think there would be just as many complaints if Bethesda had limited which guilds you can join as a specific character? In Morrowind, some Fighters Guild quests actually had you murdering questgivers for the Thieves guild, but I guarantee you that if a similar situation existed in Skyrim, people would whine.

I suppose the relevant question is: if you think it's lame to become the leader of every guild... why do you? None of the characters I have join more than one guild (except maybe a thieves guild/dark brotherhood type character). This isn't an MMO where you sweep into town, click all of the (!) characters, get every quest, and go kill things until your log is empty, then rinse/repeat. Use your imagination and create limitations and choices for your character to inhabit, it's more fun that way.

@usgrovers: I think its lame to become the leader of any guild because you're character is completely unqualified to lead any of them. My character showed up the mage's college and a few days later she was made Archmage. I was like "What the hell guys? I don't know how to run a university! Hell, I barely know magic because you guys saw fit to teach me like two spells over the course of this entire quest!" The fact that they just make you the leader and then allow you to go on your merry way is stupid to. If they are going to make me the leader of a guild that should at least come with some sort of responsibility.