It's interesting this is mentioned. 
 
In the original Night of the living dead the main guy that is focused on is a black guy. This seemingly (I don't know if it was intentional but it really seems to be) was a statement about racism (see the end of Night of the living dead when they assume he's also a zombie and shoot him and drag him out on a fish hook). 
 
I kind of assumed it had similar aspirations of underpinnings in the same way in this game. If you read into it. I don't know if that's intentional. 
 
It is certainly interesting, but I don't think the focus should be on someones skin color. I have always figured the reason for mostly white guys is because when you write it's easiest to write what you know. Video games have only started to get better writing. For me it makes sense guys are usually white as the guy writing it is white. His immediate attention is not that the character is white if he has any lick of sense. His thought should be on what will do well to round out the character. Often though, when writing, when you get into a good flow, you no longer dictate what happens. You just let it happen. That's how I write anyway- with mixed results.  Interestingly the fans often find more in the writing then the author realizes because of this. It's pretty common. That's why when sometimes you ask a question about what something means, the Director of a film or the writer simply may say he doesn't know, or has thought about it and thinks it may be something but doesn't really have the answer. Particularly in the case of good writing, you don't necessarily write things for a reason. You may come up with a situation and let everything else flow from there. That is how I have always written, anyway.
 
Knowing video game attention to detail I am sure there was probably a reason he's black, but I don't think it was ultimately a big deal in the creation process but more of an aesthetic choice as well as possibly an homage. 

@Rasmoss: starhawk has a black protag

@CornBREDX said:

It's interesting this is mentioned. In the original Night of the living dead the main guy that is focused on is a black guy. This seemingly (I don't know if it was intentional but it really seems to be) was a statement about racism (see the end of Night of the living dead when they assume he's also a zombie and shoot him and drag him out on a fish hook). I kind of assumed it had similar aspirations of underpinnings in the same way in this game. If you read into it. I don't know if that's intentional. It is certainly interesting, but I don't think the focus should be on someones skin color. I have always figured the reason for mostly white guys is because when you write it's easiest to write what you know. Video games have only started to get better writing. For me it makes sense guys are usually white as the guy writing it is white. His immediate attention is not that the character is white if he has any lick of sense. His thought should be on what will do well to round out the character. Often though, when writing, when you get into a good flow, you no longer dictate what happens. You just let it happen. That's how I write anyway- with mixed results. Interestingly the fans often find more in the writing then the author realizes because of this. It's pretty common. That's why when sometimes you ask a question about what something means, the Director of a film or the writer simply may say he doesn't know, or has thought about it and thinks it may be something but doesn't really have the answer. Particularly in the case of good writing, you don't necessarily write things for a reason. You may come up with a situation and let everything else flow from there. That is how I have always written, anyway. Knowing video game attention to detail I am sure there was probably a reason he's black, but I don't think it was ultimately a big deal in the creation process but more of an aesthetic choice as well as possibly an homage.

I appreciate your point, but to put what I said above a bit more bluntly, let's not kid ourselves about the reasons why there aren't more diverse protagonists in games. Money play into this, and the perception that certain characters just won't "sell":

CornBREDX said:

It's interesting this is mentioned. In the original Night of the living dead the main guy that is focused on is a black guy. This seemingly (I don't know if it was intentional but it really seems to be) was a statement about racism (see the end of Night of the living dead when they assume he's also a zombie and shoot him and drag him out on a fish hook). I kind of assumed it had similar aspirations of underpinnings in the same way in this game. If you read into it. I don't know if that's intentional. It is certainly interesting, but I don't think the focus should be on someones skin color. I have always figured the reason for mostly white guys is because when you write it's easiest to write what you know. Video games have only started to get better writing. For me it makes sense guys are usually white as the guy writing it is white. His immediate attention is not that the character is white if he has any lick of sense. His thought should be on what will do well to round out the character. Often though, when writing, when you get into a good flow, you no longer dictate what happens. You just let it happen. That's how I write anyway- with mixed results. Interestingly the fans often find more in the writing then the author realizes because of this. It's pretty common. That's why when sometimes you ask a question about what something means, the Director of a film or the writer simply may say he doesn't know, or has thought about it and thinks it may be something but doesn't really have the answer. Particularly in the case of good writing, you don't necessarily write things for a reason. You may come up with a situation and let everything else flow from there. That is how I have always written, anyway. Knowing video game attention to detail I am sure there was probably a reason he's black, but I don't think it was ultimately a big deal in the creation process but more of an aesthetic choice as well as possibly an homage.

I'm glad I'm not alone in seeing the parallels between Lee and Ben from Night of the Living Dead.

EDIT:

After doing a bit more digging into Duane Jones (the guy who played Ben in NoTLD) I found this little tidbit (from IMDB):

Jones was a former English professor who directed at the Maguire Theater at the Old Westbury campus of New York State University, and he additionally served as artistic director at the Richard Allen Center in New York City. His casting as the hero of the Romero film was rather unique, as it was the first occasion that an African American actor had portrayed the hero in a horror film. The tall, well-spoken Jones appeared in a handful of other B-grade horror movies such as Ganja & Hess (1973) and Vampires (1986), but none are remembered as well as his first on-screen role.

Sound vaguely familiar to anyone?

I don't think it was a big deal in him being black when they created the game, and I think that's one reason WHY it's so great. I hear black actors talk about how hard it is to get a role in a movie that isn't a pimp, drug dealer, or stereotypical black friend. that's why it's cool that Lee is just a normal guy.

Gary even talked about (on some podcast, maybe the Tested one) that there was at least SOME negative response to Lee being black. So obviously there are still barriers to overcome with the normal chudds our there.

It's unfortunate that Telltale felt the need to make him a convict. I do think it's subtly racist that this character necessitated a link to criminal elements in his background. Clearly there's more to the character than that, but it's still a little questionable that this character seems to have required a criminal past. This sort of thing contributes to the white cultural metonymic association in media that black = criminal, despite the ways that Lee might develop throughout the course of the game.

I honestly didn't even make a note of it until the "urban" joke (which I thought was funny and tasteful, by the way).
 
Well done, TellTale.

@JZ said:

Isn't kratos black, before he got the ashes stuck to him?

No. He was Greek with an olive skin tone.

@Nicked said:

It's unfortunate that Telltale felt the need to make him a convict. I do think it's subtly racist that this character necessitated a link to criminal elements in his background. Clearly there's more to the character than that, but it's still a little questionable that this character seems to have required a criminal past. This sort of thing contributes to the white cultural metonymic association in media that black = criminal, despite the ways that Lee might develop throughout the course of the game.

I don't think that they made him a criminal because he was black. Judging by all the interviews and dev diaries it sounded like they just wanted to have an interesting past. I think the only reason someone would think that is because they are looking for the racism in the game on the part of the developers.

@CornBREDX: I agree with you, but the question I'm posing is 'why does his flaw have to be criminal?' There are other ways to set up characters with redemptive arcs. And he could have been white, sure, but we see a lot of diversity in white fictional characters. We don't see that same diversity in black characters in games, so in part because of this under-representation and small sample size, linking blacks/criminals stands out a whole bunch.

My larger point is that can't the narrative play with race and racism without having Lee be an ex-con? The lockpicking thing still plays as a narrative beat if Lee is just a regular dude, the "urban" joke still plays, and so on. I don't think Telltale is being distasteful, but why can't Lee be flawed without also being on his way to jail?

(And yeah, to be fair I understand why you'd say I'm reading into this too much, but regardless of the eventual path of the narrative the game seems to have necessitated that the black guy be a criminal.)

He's like a more useful T-Dog.

Also happy about it. Black characters are almost always present in media, but very rarely are they the protagonist. Glad to see a game that does diversity right.

And I liked the fact that I totally played the race card with Larry.

@MuttersomeTaxicab said:

CornBREDX said:

It's interesting this is mentioned. In the original Night of the living dead the main guy that is focused on is a black guy. This seemingly (I don't know if it was intentional but it really seems to be) was a statement about racism (see the end of Night of the living dead when they assume he's also a zombie and shoot him and drag him out on a fish hook). I kind of assumed it had similar aspirations of underpinnings in the same way in this game. If you read into it. I don't know if that's intentional. It is certainly interesting, but I don't think the focus should be on someones skin color. I have always figured the reason for mostly white guys is because when you write it's easiest to write what you know. Video games have only started to get better writing. For me it makes sense guys are usually white as the guy writing it is white. His immediate attention is not that the character is white if he has any lick of sense. His thought should be on what will do well to round out the character. Often though, when writing, when you get into a good flow, you no longer dictate what happens. You just let it happen. That's how I write anyway- with mixed results. Interestingly the fans often find more in the writing then the author realizes because of this. It's pretty common. That's why when sometimes you ask a question about what something means, the Director of a film or the writer simply may say he doesn't know, or has thought about it and thinks it may be something but doesn't really have the answer. Particularly in the case of good writing, you don't necessarily write things for a reason. You may come up with a situation and let everything else flow from there. That is how I have always written, anyway. Knowing video game attention to detail I am sure there was probably a reason he's black, but I don't think it was ultimately a big deal in the creation process but more of an aesthetic choice as well as possibly an homage.

I'm glad I'm not alone in seeing the parallels between Lee and Ben from Night of the Living Dead.

EDIT:

After doing a bit more digging into Duane Jones (the guy who played Ben in NoTLD) I found this little tidbit (from IMDB):

Jones was a former English professor who directed at the Maguire Theater at the Old Westbury campus of New York State University, and he additionally served as artistic director at the Richard Allen Center in New York City. His casting as the hero of the Romero film was rather unique, as it was the first occasion that an African American actor had portrayed the hero in a horror film. The tall, well-spoken Jones appeared in a handful of other B-grade horror movies such as Ganja & Hess (1973) and Vampires (1986), but none are remembered as well as his first on-screen role.

Sound vaguely familiar to anyone?

holy shit. that's legitimately intriguing (no sarcasm)!

and to reiterate- the point of this thread is to commend telltale on their seemingly authentic, refined, and frankly mature take on a protagonist in a video game. lee's treatment is special (rather paradoxically) in that it isn't- it's simply realistic. and that's to be admired in a world filled with barretts (FF7), big bo (binary domain), and letitia (deus ex:hr). there's a long precedent for black stereotypes in video games (see prior examples)- if i were to ask the community for white ones, i'm thinking you'd be hard pressed.

@mellotronrules: Great point. I think Lee is leaps and bounds above other protagonists in terms of complexity, regardless of anything else.

Oh, you people.

- Starhawk

- Prototype 2

- The Walking Dead

- GTA San Andreas

- GTA V

- Assassin's Creed Liberation

- Resident Evil 5

And if you want to get a bit more creative: Shadowman, Left4 Dead 1&2, Dead Island, Moonwalker (ok jk)

And of course every game where you can create your own character.

As a black dude, I was so happy to find out the Lee Everett was a human being... not some shitty stereo type. He was smart and had a lot of depth. But could still let a "muthafucka" slip out when he got mad. A respectable character to be sure.

@Nicked said:

@CornBREDX: I agree with you, but the question I'm posing is 'why does his flaw have to be criminal?' There are other ways to set up characters with redemptive arcs. And he could have been white, sure, but we see a lot of diversity in white fictional characters. We don't see that same diversity in black characters in games, so in part because of this under-representation and small sample size, linking blacks/criminals stands out a whole bunch.

My larger point is that can't the narrative play with race and racism without having Lee be an ex-con? The lockpicking thing still plays as a narrative beat if Lee is just a regular dude, the "urban" joke still plays, and so on. I don't think Telltale is being distasteful, but why can't Lee be flawed without also being on his way to jail?

(And yeah, to be fair I understand why you'd say I'm reading into this too much, but regardless of the eventual path of the narrative the game seems to have necessitated that the black guy be a criminal.)

I think you are not giving the developers enough credit here. I think it's disingenuous to believe that the devs made the character a black criminal solely for the purpose of having racially charged tension between the characters with a little added depth. The criminal element adds moral ambiguity to the character and to connect that to his race is, I believe, racist in and of itself.

And to continue my post: If black people need black main characters from time to time to be able to relate to main characters, how screwed is europe? Name a spanish main character. Name a polish. Name a german.

Pretty hard, huh? Still, those are all very diverse cultures. Saying every white character is american is pretty racist and offensive if you think about it.

It's also pretty racist to assume black Americans are so different from white Americans, they need there own main character from time to time. Think past the skin colour, dudes.

@Phuturist: Good job listing a handful of video games with black characters, most of them where they're not even the main protagonist in said game and some being stereotyped. You think it's fine that black main characters or female ones are simply a rare exception in the medium? And I think counting custom character creators in this kind of discussion is trivial.

@Phuturist said:

And to continue my post: If black people need black main characters from time to time to be able to relate to main characters, how screwed is europe? Name a spanish main character. Name a polish. Name a german.

Oh, I could make a poor list of characters like you did that fit your criteria, but I won't because that'd be useless.

And it's easy for you to say "think past the color" since you're what I presume to be a white male, given what you're saying, but the fact is "black" isn't the same as "white". Characters can be made to be relatable and skin color can be a significant part of that, especially for people who don't see many characters of their ethnicity developed in a great way in the medium such as Lee was.

@Phuturist said:

It's also pretty racist to assume black Americans are so different from white Americans, they need there own main character from time to time. Think past the skin colour, dudes.

i don't think anyone is claiming anything like that- as if one were able to speak on behalf of an entire demographic. nor that they 'need' anything. the point is when one typically sees a black video game character, they're usually poorly and/or stereotypically written. this one wasn't, and that's a good thing.

@Rasmoss: Just read a couple of the posts and see how several users are somehow relating the fact that the protagonist is black with the fact that he is a criminal. This sort of stigma is the type of ridiculous belief that makes it just "easier" for the developer to craft a buzz-cut white dude. If a game had a female protagonist that was simply a flirtatious individual, it would be seen as sexist. If the protagonist happened to be Asian and intelligent - someone out there would make the ridiculous connection which would harass the industry and developers.

It's the same thing with Gays as it is Blacks (when it comes to diversity in the gaming industry). It has nothing to do with racism/sexism, but simply the lack of cultural exposure which will remedy itself as time goes on. Once the inherent stigma is released from the common mind, you will see more blacks, gays, women, and other diverse individuals as protagonists. Until then, we just have to understand that the outspoken majority of gamers tend to get their panties in a know which will always put a thorn in the side of progression.

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Phuturist: Good job listing a handful of video games with black characters, most of them where they're not even the main protagonist in said game and some being stereotyped. You think it's fine that black main characters are simply a rare exception in the medium?

@Phuturist said:

And to continue my post: If black people need black main characters from time to time to be able to relate to main characters, how screwed is europe? Name a spanish main character. Name a polish. Name a german.

Oh, I could make a poor list of characters like you did that fit your criteria, but I won't because that'd be useless.

And it's easy for you to say "think past the color" since you're what I presume to be a white male, given what you're saying, but the fact is "black" isn't the same as "white". Characters can be made to be relatable and skin color can be a significant part of that, especially for people who don't see many characters of their ethnicity developed in a great way in the medium such as Lee was.

All of those were main characters, the "more creative" part had more than 2 main characters, but still. "most of them not main characters" look at least try to argue here. Maybe try counting how many of those games do not have black people as the main character, then we can talk.

And please, make that list of german main characters that rivals my black main characters list. Go on. Or someone else. I can't even think of one, even though there are most likely more german than black video game players.

And yes, you are right, there should be a bunch of black main characters, but I think we have enough. We just have too many white american male characters. You know what also helps to relate to a character? Living in the same world, with the same problems, words and culture. Surely you would not disagree.

The fact is that Lee is one of the best characters that the gaming industry has produced, regardless of his race. I'd be hard pressed to find many white characters that have an equally deep characterization. The fact that we have a character like Lee is an achievement in gaming storytelling, and the things that make him a great character have nothing to do with his race. Hopefully the gaming industry will see the success tat Telltale has achieved by putting a focus on narrative and grow from it. I hope this game isn't just an outlier and deep narratives eventually become the norm, not the exception.

@CornBREDX said:

@Nicked: I felt their intent was more the focus on his past as a murderer- which is the why to your criminal question- and that it does not necessarily define him as a person- which is technically open slate as the player defines his intent. Making it a lesser crime may dilute their point, while still being fair (as all crime is equally bad), morally we don't accept thievery but we do not look at it the same as murder. Making it no crime would dissolve it completely.

I agree. I think the important thing here is not that he's a "black criminal" but specifically a "murderer". Murder is generally considered the worst sin a person can commit in modern society. That dynamic going into this new hellish world is important, especially in regards to how others might view you and treat you. I can't think of any other "flaw" that he could have that would resonate the same way.

@Phuturist said:

And yes, you are right, there should be a bunch of black main characters, but I think we have enough.

Out of thousands upon thousands of games that have been released over the years you struggle to list 7 and that's "enough"? Seriously?

@Phuturist said:

And please, make that list of german main characters that rivals my black main characters list. Go on. Or someone else. I can't even think of one, even though there are most likely more german than black video game players.

And yes, you are right, there should be a bunch of black main characters, but I think we have enough.

i'm not sure why we're looking for a list of white europeans in games, but if we're talking germans- the most prevalent character they seem to play is a nazi. which in and of itself is somewhat disgraceful. just like russians tend to be villains.

and 'enough' black characters? why do you have some sort of unspoken quota in your head? that's a very odd way to view things.

Sometimes people are black. It's crazy!

@ck1nd said:

@Rasmoss: Just read a couple of the posts and see how several users are somehow relating the fact that the protagonist is black with the fact that he is a criminal. This sort of stigma is the type of ridiculous belief that makes it just "easier" for the developer to craft a buzz-cut white dude. If a game had a female protagonist that was simply a flirtatious individual, it would be seen as sexist. If the protagonist happened to be Asian and intelligent - someone out there would make the ridiculous connection which would harass the industry and developers.

It's the same thing with Gays as it is Blacks (when it comes to diversity in the gaming industry). It has nothing to do with racism/sexism, but simply the lack of cultural exposure which will remedy itself as time goes on. Once the inherent stigma is released from the common mind, you will see more blacks, gays, women, and other diverse individuals as protagonists. Until then, we just have to understand that the outspoken majority of gamers tend to get their panties in a know which will always put a thorn in the side of progression.

Well, I see a lot of users who recognise and can relate to what we are talking about regarding Lee, and I think this topic has given us a great discussion. I think most of the viewpoints here have been interesting to read. And I do think that Telltale succeed in making Lee a sympathetic and realistic character, despite being black and having committed a crime. I think, barring a few exceptions, that that has been the general feeling.

@Phuturist:

Prototype 2 = from what I gather, a vulgar stereotype.

GTA San Andreas = from what I gather, gangster/criminal stereotype.

I was wrong when I stated most of them because I thought specifically about Redfield when you stated RE5 and I read Liberation for ACIII so your list is more apt than what I first thought, but that's still just a REALLY small handful. And "that's enough"?

For the German characters, I was thinking more about Spanish when I made that comment, but here:

• Nightmare (SoulCalibur)
• Hitomi (Dead or Alive)
• Juni (Street Fighter)
• Medic (Team Fortress 2)
• Sasha Nein (Psychonauts)

The list is smaller, but that's because you can't compare nationality when speaking about ethnicity. Black people are not all from one geographical location and it's a matter of skin color, which is something that is usually taken into account more in a character than their nationality.

@Zeik said:

[...]

@mellotronrules said:

[...]

Enough in the recent years, if you consider how many different kinds of people play video games. There is a severe lack of Chinese, Korean, Australian, South African, Spanish, French, Norwegian, German, Russian, Arabic [...] characters though, if you consider how many of them play video games. I mean we are used to every major entertainment product taking place in America or featuring Americans, but in a perfect world, everyone would have their equally fair share of consideration.

I hope you see where I am coming from with this.

As someone who never played a game in his own country or as a character of the same heritage/culture/nation, this whole "not enough black characters" thing seems a tad weird.

maybe there should be a concept page for non-white protagonists rather than just black people. i want to see some south asian action heroes, i can't be alone here

@FluxWaveZ said:

For the German characters, I was thinking more about Spanish when I made that comment, but here:

• Nightmare (SoulCalibur)
• Hitomi (Dead or Alive)
• Juni (Street Fighter)
• Medic (Team Fortress 2)
• Sasha Nein (Psychonauts)

The list is smaller, but that's because you can't compare nationality when speaking about ethnicity. Black people are not all from one geographical location and it's a matter of skin color, which is something that is usually taken into account more in a character than their nationality.

Oh you want to talk fighting and class based games? Here is my new list for black characters:

Every fighting + class based game in the history of ever. I dare you to prove me wrong.

And I still maintain my point that where and how you live is more important to relate to a character than the colour of the skin. At least for me. But I get it, more black characters, with pleasure! But more other types as well please.

Oh also add that new Namco game in Paris to the black main character list.

Oh and find a German main character not in a "pick one of 20 characters" game. That's not a nazi in the evil campaign.

@SharkEthic said:

YAY POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!

Just a thing, are any of you guys even black? Like with women in gaming, men seem to make the biggest deal out of the lack of female protagonists. Where is the outcry by the black community for more black people in gaming?

@Rasmoss said:

He is just a dude, who happens to be black, and he is totally relatable to anyone who plays the game regardsless of their race.

It's almost like he's...dare I say...human? We need to get past these issues, dudes. We have a black president, I think that's a deffinet indication that black people "won the war". Let's stop celebrating political correctness for the sake of celebrating political correctness.

Really doesn't bother me that much because a lot of my favorite games I can create my own character. I still don't know who the corny looking guy on the cover of my Mass Effect games is. I really just like making my own character and I loved the way Bioware games handle this.

@Phuturist: Those I listed are still main characters in their respective games, even though their role in the narrative is relatively small because of the nature of the games they belong to. But all of this isn't really useful since you maintain that nationality is more important to identify to a character than ethnicity, and I do not, which was my real argument from the start. Like I said, comparing the number of black main characters to the number of French main characters, for example, isn't the same thing.

@Phuturist said:

Oh, you people.

- Starhawk

- Prototype 2

- The Walking Dead

- GTA San Andreas

- GTA V

- Assassin's Creed Liberation

- Resident Evil 5

And if you want to get a bit more creative: Shadowman, Left4 Dead 1&2, Dead Island, Moonwalker (ok jk)

And of course every game where you can create your own character.

10 games. Now list the ones where you play as a white man.

@FluxWaveZ: That's a bit unfair though. As you guessed my ethnicity so nicely, I assume you live in the states or the UK? How do you want to know if nationality and culture are important to feel represented or just acknowledged if every game is made for you. It's like white guys saying "na uhhh, skin colour is not important, it's just about accent! It's totally fine that there is not a single game with a black main character, but man we need more Boston accents!". You just can't judge that. (I hope you realize that my example was a fictive one)

@Phuturist said:

@FluxWaveZ: That's a bit unfair though. As you guessed my ethnicity so nicely, I assume you live in the states or the UK? How do you want to know if nationality and culture are important to feel represented or just acknowledged if every game is made for you.

I was born and live in Canada. Tell me how many games have Canadian main characters.

@Phuturist said:

I hope you see where I am coming from with this.

As someone who never played a game in his own country or as a character of the same heritage/culture/nation, this whole "not enough black characters" thing seems a tad weird.

well, i think i know what you're speaking to (a general problem with the way american media stereotypes all cultures, it isn't just limited to african-americans)- and i'd agree to a limited extent. but again, i never stressed the quantity of 'black characters' being paramount- it's HOW they're portrayed that's important. i don't think anyone's calling for or alluding to this concept of 'not enough,' i'm certainly not. write realistic, good characters. that's all i want. and again, i think it's strange to have a concept of 'we have enough black characters.' why is race something to be quantified?

@FluxWaveZ said:

I was born and live in Canada. Tell me how many games have Canadian main characters.

God damn it. Alright, alright. Though you must admit, Canada is to the USA what Austria is to Germany or the french part of Belgium to France. Pretty similar. But fine, you really care more about ethnicity and I understand why.

@mellotronrules said:

well, i think i know what you're speaking to (a general problem with the way american media stereotypes all cultures, it isn't just limited to african-americans)- and i'd agree to a limited extent. but again, i never stressed the quantity of 'black characters' being paramount- it's HOW they're portrayed that's important. i don't think anyone's calling for or alluding to this concept of 'not enough,' i'm certainly not. write realistic, good characters. that's all i want. and again, i think it's strange to have a concept of 'we have enough black characters.' why is race something to be quantified?

And we want the same thing of course, and yes, I certainly phrased my statement the wrong way. Maybe it's just because for me there hardly seems to be a difference between black and white Americans. But I am only saying so because of the portrayal in mass media. I heard there are bunch of difficulties and tensions in the daily lifes over there. Sometimes I forget.

video games need more than a average look 30 year old white guy.

@Phuturist said:

And we want the same thing of course, and yes, I certainly phrased my statement the wrong way. Maybe it's just because for me there hardly seems to be a difference between black and white Americans. But I am only saying so because of the portrayal in mass media. I heard there are bunch of difficulties and tensions in the daily lifes over there. Sometimes I forget.

knowing that you're coming from a foreign perspective, that makes a great deal of sense- just as i, as a white american, would perceive british of african descent- they're british first, and i'm not attuned to their struggles within the u.k.

but yes, the discussion continues in the united states. we fancy ourselves a melting pot, but for better or worse, we're not there yet.

The fact that this is even being mentioned is a bit racist.

Yeah, Lee was black, big whoop. Who really cares?

@LikeaSsur said:

The fact that this is even being mentioned is a bit racist. Yeah, Lee was black, big whoop. Who really cares?

no.

i really don't mean to jump on you, but talking about race is not racist.

Well, we had a good run before this turned into a load of nonsense :-/

@Rasmoss said:

Well, we had a good run before this turned into a load of nonsense :-/

haha totally. not bad at all, considering this is the internet and we're talking about race in a gameplay-light "video game."

tl,dr- yaaay telltale! yaaay lee!

@mellotronrules said:

@LikeaSsur said:

The fact that this is even being mentioned is a bit racist. Yeah, Lee was black, big whoop. Who really cares?

no.

i really don't mean to jump on you, but talking about race is not racist.

Indeed.

@Rasmoss said:

Well, we had a good run before this turned into a load of nonsense :-/

Thought I did a pretty good job of that on page one:D

@CornBREDX: Totally insightful and reasonable points, though I would say that intent is irrelevant. DW Griffith said time and again that Birth of a Nation wasn't intended to be racist. "I didn't mean to be racist" is not an excuse for racism... but that's a whole different topic.

I think this sort of conversation about crime and morality that you're talking about is one worth having and it's good that the game brings it up regardless of the character's race. I think a better way of making my argument is to say that the subtle racism is more a symptom of a lack of diversity than a lack of creative effort.

Again, all I'm really picking up on is the metonymy of having a black protagonist who is seemingly by necessity a criminal. This sort of thing is exacerbated mostly because black people are under-represented.

This specific instance where a black guy happens to be a murderer is not in and of itself "racist", but a creative culture that largely suggests that black people are dangerous is. ("Dangerous" within a civil society, I mean, not dangerous as in Random Military Protag killing enemy soldiers.)

In the interest of transparency, I've only watched a couple of playthrough videos of the game on youtube, and those gave me little to no indication that Lee's past was vital to the story. It seems to me that most of the game's story would still play even if Lee wasn't a criminal. Couldn't his dark past have been something like say PTSD, or couldn't he just have been a selfish post-apocalyptite who has to learn to take care of a helpless girl? Couldn't he have had internal conflict without being a murderer? Point is, he didn't NEED to be a criminal.

Is it clear what I'm getting at? I ask only because this is a very nuanced argument I'm making and I worry that my failure to express it well could be easily misinterpreted. I'm not trying to say 'Telltale has a secret racist agenda' or 'black people should only be totally noble heroes'. I'm saying 'there are very few black player characters in games, and here's one who seems to be a criminal by some false sense of necessity'.

@FluxWaveZ: CJ from san Andreas was a gangster, but he was at least somewhat sympathetic, Claude and Tommy from the previous games were remorseless killers. CJ had a family and tried to make things better for other people. Sure you can still kill a lot of people, it's a GTA game, but he was somewhat relatable.