I don't get it - why only give out XP (and really, really minor XP) for completing quests? It completely de-incentivizes exploring the world. Like, why should I go fight a bandit camp if I A) get no XP from it and B) only get blueprints for items that I'll be able to craft 20 levels from now? I did a quest tonight where I fought a fucking werewolf and it only gave my 45 XP. How am I supposed to level? Just mainline the quest? Then why write side quests in the first place!

URG.

Are EXP and item drops really the only reason you go out to do quests?

I'm kinda glad they did it this way honestly. If you got abundant exp from sidestuff then you would very very quickly outlevel the story content and it wouldn't be fun anymore. I hate it when games don't know how to balance level progression with side quests and you end up being way overleveled if you do anything but the story. You still end up kind of overleveled by the end of the game, but it's not as bad as it could be. On the other hand, this also means you only have to do as much side stuff as you want. You never feel forced to clear out everything just to continue with the story.

Besides, that side stuff absolutely gets you stuff that makes it worth the trouble. If you don't get a piece of gear you can use you'll almost certainly get something to sell. You'll often find diagrams and more importantly, bomb, potion, oil, and decoction recipes. And even if you don't get any of that the side quests often provide interesting bits of story, which is far more important. It's the reason I still go back to do grayed out quests, despite getting effectively zero exp and more or less worthless loot.

Sometimes people do things cus they enjoy them. If you're approaching quests like a job and exp is your lower than expected paycheck, idk what to tell you. Maybe play something you like instead of a chore that's giving you less return than you think you should get for the "work" you did.

It may be side effect of how the XP in Wild Hunt is set up, but I've found myself not thinking about leveling and experience at all. This is definitely not the usual way I approach RPGs - I'm typically a huge min/maxer when it comes to games like this. When I do level up, it's a nice surprise and I get to unlock a new skill, or perhaps get a new slot for a mutagen or something. Looking back on my first 15 hours of play or so, leveling does feel a little slow but it doesn't bother me at all. I'm doing all of the side quests because they are fun, not because I feel like I have to in order to get XP to level up.

By the way, in today's 1.05 patch, we have this change which may improve things for some people:

• Improves the distribution of experience points gained by completing quests with recommended levels lower than the player character level.

Here are the full 1.05 patch notes -

http://thewitcher.com/news/view/1052

I had no trouble leveling up off quests when I played through the game the first time. In fact, I found myself leveling too fast. There was a stretch of time where I was just doing side quests and getting 500+ XP each and becoming over-leveled for most of the other quests I had. This from about level 12-20.

The quests are what matter, I went back and did level 10 quests when I was level 20 because they're fun well crafted quests regardless. It's not a traditional RPG in that you need to level to progress, you progress to level instead. If the only reasons you're doing quests is to get a flashy "you got this much XP" at the end of it maybe you should play a different game for that experience?

Considering the name for the max level achivement is called "munchkin" I think the slow leveling is part of the design. More like a pen and paper rpg where it's what you choose that matters and not just grinding to get to the next level.

Ugh, MMOs have a lot to answer for.

There is no level cap in Wild Hunt.

I've found it to be fine tbh. I'm only level 16 and got hit with that no exp bug but i've felt like i've been progressing steadily

I think it's better that way, because if they didn't, I would just be fighting every enemy I see just to get that exp. But without that incentive, I'm more likely to roleplay as Geralt, who wouldn't just go around killing wolves and wild dogs unless they attack me first.

Dragon Age Inquisition also have a pretty slow level grind. You get like 20xp for a wolf and you need 7000xp to level up. Not played Wither 3 but I can understand if people are upset about it. You want to always feel like you are leveling. Diablo 3 does that pretty well and most JRPG's handle it well in the way thay you never go too long without leveling up.

A simple solution would be to speed up leveling but decrease the bonus per level so that in the end you end up just as strong but they trickle out smaller stat increases rather than a few bigger ones.

Not saying that I play RPG's only for leveling but I do feel like "why did I kill these enemies when I got ntohing for it?" You always want to get something. That is a big reason why Monster Hunter doesn't appeal to me since you don't get any XP. Even FPS games have figures out that everything feels better with an XP bar filling up.

Hope I am not too incoherent, I am still hungover from yesterday.

I've had no problem with the xp gains in this game thus far (level 21). I've been alternating between main story and side quests that are at or around my level and the levelling ramp has seemed super smooth.

You haven't played a lot of rpgs based on DnD have you? The leveling is fine. Though I wish you had a little more input on level up to make it feel more important since they are so far between each other.

@dagas: Diablo is a COMPLETELY different style of "RPG". Loot and levels are pretty much everything there. That kind of progression would be completely out of place in a game like The Witcher. You haven't played the game, so I won't blame you for not knowing this, but stat progression here isn't like most RPGs. Basically the only stat that increases simply from leveling is HP. Everything else is derived from your equipment, skills, and mutagens. The main purpose of leveling is to unlock new equipment to use, new skill slots and mutagen slots, and more ability points. More levels with less sats wouldn't mean much, other than screwing with how gear progression works.

Not all of the ways you increase your strength are even tied to levels. You can find free ability points throughout the world, which is more or less like getting a free level. Upgrades to your potions, bombs, oils, and decoctions are also not tied to levels and doing so is effectively like increasing your stats. Finding the recipe for enhanced hanged man's venom so that you deal 25% extra damage to humans is a big deal.

The Witcher 3 is not your average RPG. It's not all about leveling up. The world is littered with upgrades that increase your effectiveness in various ways.

But the upgrades are level restricted... What a shitty change from the first games to impose level restriction on swords, like a man who has been training woth swords for 40years are to inexperienced to wield a level 12 sword...

Wild Hunt gets away with it because the story, characters and world are way more fleshed out then most rpg's. If it was skyrim i probably would have quit already, but I got pretty invested into this character and world.

I don't mind it, just explore the world and find places of power, they're all over the place and each one grants you an additional ability point. If you really want to level up quicker though, just start doing the main mission, those quests give out a lot of xp, and the main quest is really damn long too.

The main quest doles out xp like crazy. It seems like they really want to keep you leveling up in relation to your main story progress, and I think they did a decent job of that. Of course, I got crazy overleveled anyway. When I beat the game, I outpaced the final mission by 7 levels.

Ya when i finished the last few story quests I was going up an entire level after beating each one.

The sidequests and characters in the game are so well made and genuinely interesting that I stopped caring about leveling and grinding XP. Skyrim is an impressive game, but after a while I just couldn't play it anymore because the amount of sidequests burned me out and it just felt like a MMO grind which I hate.

I'm currently playing Witcher 2 and it's the same way,the only humongous difference is the scope of the world difference between the games. Maybe the real rewards are finding the higher level Witcher sword out in the world

you get xp for killing monsters, and it adds up as long as you're fighting stuff at your level. Grayed out levels are near worthless while green and pink give out decent amounts. You can get a bonus to this with certain trophies.

Same with quests; doing low level quests gets you practically nothing.

I didn't have a problem with the ramp; it's slow going at first but you don't need levels to get powerful. New gear is always around the corner, mutagens provide added buffs, decoctions are a great way to get big temporary benefits (just make sure you spec a little in to the green ability tree to boost your toxicity maximum.)

The XP ramps up later via questing- witcher contracts for example give you very good XP. Lastly it's worth exploring the world and hunting down question marks, as there's crafting materials, diagrams and surprisingly good gear to be found just lying around. .

@rethla: It's an open world game, those restrictions are necessary. Being able to equip a level 40 sword at level 1 (or 5, or 10, or 15....) would make the rest of the game boring as fuck. This is a video game first and foremost. Gameplay mechanics trump realism.

Although as I said earlier, a lot of your upgrades are NOT level restricted. There is no level restriction on finding and making a +50% damage oil. You just have to find the recipe, and the rare ingredients.

@zeik: And why could it not be the same for swords?

You dont equip a level 40 sword at level 1 if there are no level restrictions....

@rethla: Because the difference between a level 1 sword and a level 40 sword is game breaking. That 50% damage buff is big, but it's all relative to your gear. Adding 50% damage to a weapon with 100 attack is only an increase of 50. The difference between level 1 and level 40 swords is thousands of damage.

The only way to solve that problem is to make gear progression more or less meaningless. You could equip a level 40 sword, but it's only moderately better than level 1 sword. Is that really what you're clamouring for?

I didn't like it at first either. But at some point I just stopped caring. The stories are too engaging. And I'm enjoying the game too much to really pay attention. I only know what level I am currently because I am waiting to hit level 31 for master crafted gear. Other than that, I don't really care anymore.

@rethla: That's like saying why is Geralt level 1 at the start of Witcher 3 when he clearly is a master Witcher? Why does he need to relearn the skills he's obviously had before? You could have the excuse in the first two Witchers because he had amnesia but not in Wild Hunt. In the end, it's a video game, and like Zeik said, gameplay mechanics trump realism.

@probablytuna: He doesnt have to relearn any skills, he starts out a fully fledged witcher. In the first two games you have to learn all the signs and how to make oils etc.

I was level 6 just starting out and encountered a blacksmith in a village which sold a diagram for a silversword. "that sword is better than what i have lets buy the diagram and craft it". To get the silver to make that sword i had to dissasemble my current one but oh well. When i finally sourced all the materials and melted down my old sword and got this new shiny thing it was level restricted for lvl 16.... fucking great.

@rethla: Yes, but only the most basic forms of the signs. You'd think being a Witcher for who knows how many years Geralt would've learnt how to spray Igni from his hand or hell even learn to deflect arrows back at archers.

I agree there is a problem with diagrams being too high level sometimes, especially if the blacksmith/merchant is one from the early areas, but they also level with you, meaning that the gears and weapons they sell are directly related to your level progression.

@rethla: He starts out with the basic elements of a witcher, but he learns an incredible amount of new skills and abilities over the course of the game for a seasoned warrior. Does it make any sense that he suddenly learns how to whirl his blade around partway through this game when he can't at the start? (Or even without the skill equipped.) Or can suddenly parry arrows and reflect them back at archers with zero practice? No, it does not. He does not start out knowing how to make the vast majority of the oils and potions in the game until you find or buy the recipe from some merchant, despite the fact that these things are used exclusively by witchers and in many cases are considered a trade secret. But it's a sacrifice that has to be made to create a proper sense of progression in an RPG.

The game tells you the exact level you need to be to use the weapons or armor before you craft it btw. They even make sure to put the level in bright red warning letters if you are not high enough. It's 100% your own fault if you destroyed your own gear before checking the details on what you were crafting.

@rethla: And before that point you hadn't looted any weapon over your level? It's hard to believe you never wondered what that gigantic red cross meant?

@qrdl: no i hadnt done that apperently.

@zeik:They only show that if you inspect the diagram closely. I didnt even know you could do that but now i know.

Anyway none of that matters its not a problem of bad information, thats on me.

You guys are right its not a 100% realistic game and i never claimed it to be but a witcher not being able to swing a tamerian soldier sword comon? It worked perfectly well in the first two games to be able to equip anything you find and manage to craft.

The solution here is very simple, dont let the first blacksmith sell op swords that you can craft with mats from level 6 wolfs and a silver candelabra you find in a peasant hut. The high level weapons shuld be hard to get not hard to equip...

@rethla: The first two games were not open world RPGs. I'm not sure why you don't get that. In those games they forced you into specific locations at specific points in the plot, so you couldn't stumble upon the best weapons in the game at the very start.

The whole idea of equipment progression is an extremely gamey thing as it is, so getting hung up on the fact that he can't equip a weapon is ridiculous. It makes zero logical sense that you start out with a weak sword and then by the end of the game you are finding swords that do exponentially more damage to enemies simply because you happen to visit there last, even if that place happens to be some shitty swamp compared to the grand city you visited earlier in the game. Logically that witcher sword you start with should be one of the best weapons in game. Why would Geralt be carrying around a sword that's even worse than something he could pick up off some random dead soldier? Or even a schematic from some blacksmith in a backwater village?

If there's one point I'll concede is that those diagrams don't give you enough information from the shop window before you buy them. It was mostly a non-issue though, because that stuff was mostly garbage compared to the stuff you found for free in the world.

@zeik: Equipment progression doesnt have to be gamy but if you follow the mmo school it is. The idea of a traveling warrior making use of what he finds on the road is not far fetched.

My point is you should gate high level stuff behind strong monsters, high cost and other stuff not just being unable to equip it.

It gets especially awkward with the xp progression discussed in this thread.

So far I can pretty much do all the side quests without worrying about over leveling myself. The most annoying thing for me in RPGs is having to worry about exploring because it would make me too powerful for the main game stuff.

Saying you raid a bandit camp and only get a diagram you can make 20 levels from now is a gross exaggeration. You might find something like that but you find tons of useful stuff too (crafting items, lower level diagrams, gear, stuff to break down for crafting stuff, etc).

The questing should be the emphasis. Exploring is more for gear and items and questing is more for XP. The system is great as is. It lets you complete objectives how you want and rewards you for making real progress. And if you explore for gear, that's super rewarding. Getting your Witcher gear and the upgraded versions has been awesome.

If you're looking for progress quest instant reward every minute this isn't your game. And I'm glad. This is an open world game but it is not a Bethesda game. You have jobs and quests to do and that's how you level up.

I modded weight limit, horse stamina, wealthy vendors with fair prices, increased creature loot, disabled the intro movie, modded the touchpad for my PC version so I can swipe in all directions to quickly access map, character, inventory and journal. Modded two touchpad buttons for quicksave and meditate. I personally feel all of these tweaks makes the game more fun for me. I love loot. I LOVE TO HOARD LOOT!! And Now monsters drop even more? YES PLEASE! I will carry and craft whatever I want! I even tried boosting XP with a multiplier mod but I understand that's not necessary and removed it. I turned off automatic point of interest to make it more like Skyrim. Love to explore on my own and find the stuff as I go. To my surprise I'm also well above 60fps in Novigrad on pretty much ultra. Master race.

I found I leveled way too quick, and outleveled the mainquest by 5+ levels by the time i was done with all the level appropriate sidequests and ? on the map activities. My level only really evened out at the end where I basically did the all the content before the final series of main quests brought me up to level 33 when the main quest was level 30ish by the end.

@rethla: Real life warriors would not just pick up whatever weapon he finds lying around, unless they lose their weapon in the heat of battle. Warriors tend to favor specific weapons and are better off maintaining a weapon they are comfortable with than constantly changing it. Not to mention weapons don't actually have stats. They may vary in quality to a degree, but a sword is a sword, and will kill effectively regardless.

But even within the realm of fantasy, Geralt is not a generic wandering warrior. He is a Witcher that uses special weapons made of meteorite steel and silver that are custom made to be an exact length and weight. The idea that Geralt could ever realistically find something to fit those specifications just lying around is pretty absurd.

I dunno whether OP is used to just playing like Diablo or he just really wants the screen to flash LEVEL UP every time he does anything but I am a good 7 or 8 levels above the recommended for where I am in the story and I've got so much I can before that.

Stop worrying about numbers and enjoy the game?

@zeik: Warriors favors whats availble to them and the stats represents the quality and attributes of the weapon of which there are a myriad if you wanna delve into swords. This discussion is offrailing however.

Not being able to use a sword but being able to carry around 100 of them is just plain stupid and even more so how the game is just throwing high level unusable items at you all the time. no matter if you look at it from a realisitc viewpont or a gameplay one its equally stupid.

@rethla: We'll have to agree to disagree, because we're talking in circles and I think the gear progression in this game is almost perfect.

I was ultimately so overwhelmed by all the skills I couldn't have from the way the skill tree is set up that I spent most of my time in the game with a significant number of unspent skill points. I was generally more worried about not leveling up so I wouldn't outlevel my quests... not because I wouldn't get xp but because I didn't want the game to be trivially easy.

They designed the major XP gains to be delivered from completing quests and they spaced it out for the entire 200 hour RPG to get to max level. I've completed the tutorial area and about 90+ percent of Novigrad/Velen and just started Skilard(?) at level 21. The only time the game was actually challenging was when I first left the tutorial area for Velen and much like Dark Souls if I went the wrong way I'd get smacked down real quick. If you don't like the level progression and want to be a god king for 80% of the game just download a mod, use a cheatcode, or use a trainer.

Update: I'm pretty deep in Velen and the story is really picking up. The quests are honestly pretty amazing, easily the best writing I've seen in a game to date, and I'm getting a better handle on the XP/combat. I guess I've just never played a game that took me a good 20 hrs to get in to. But now that I am I don't want to stop...

Also holy fuck this game is huge. I feel like I've spent 20 hours in Velen alone.