I reserve the fact that I am completely looking way too much into this, and am in the wrong with my opinion. Also I already donated the $15 because I like cRPGs.

A few days ago I started seeing "I funded Wasteland 2's Kickstarter Project" pop up all over my twitter feed. I was confused. The people tweeting it seem to be pretty geeky and I have never heard of a Wasteland 1, what am I missing out on? Upon clicking the blue link I see that Wasteland was an old the first post-apocalyptic RPG which was the inspiration to the Fallout series.

After reading the project page, watching the video, and reading the subsequent I have come to the conclusion that the inXile guys (or at least Brian Cargo) are douchebags. From the information given it feels as though they hold themselves in such high regard, that a lot of people will follow suit in making classic rpgs just as soon as they make another one. In the last update they put out they even said "This is a paradigm shift that is way bigger than Wasteland 2." That comes off to me about the same way as saying "our shit doesn't stink." I'm not the first nor am I going to be the last with saying that either of those statements are not true. Nothing is going to change drastically, for good or bad. The inXile guys are not that important in the grand scheme of things. Sorry.

The video itself also just seems off putting. We see Brian Fargo is various rooms where the furniture seems very expensive. Not that says anything about the game development, but it feels like it doesn't suit the nature of a kickstarter project. In the double fine series of videos never once do we see tim schafer sitting on an expensive couch with a plethora or pillows in front of some expensive black and gold curtains saying that he needs our help to get his game funded. I understand that the couch itself has nothing to do with the game being funded, but it's not the right visual tone. And having the right visual tone will help people decide to fund your project or not.

Lastly in regards to inXile, it pisses me off that they mention "We set the highest goal for kickstarter and we met it in 2 days!" Fuck you. That has nothing to do with the game. Just the fact that you got funded in 2 days is what matters. Not the amount of money it took, that is implied. No need to raise yourself above the rest.

Before I go let me say that I can fund their project and call them douchebags. I can not fund the game and call them douchebags as well. How I feel about the people themselves doesn't need to be a major factor of whether or not I am going to fund their project. Just because I do not like the way he is presenting a fan funded Wasteland 2 doesn't mean I have to boycott it. As a recent example: Phil Fish is a dick, but I'm still going to buy Fez if it is ever released.

I reserve the fact that I am completely looking way too much into this, and am in the wrong with my opinion. Also I already donated the $15 because I like cRPGs.

A few days ago I started seeing "I funded Wasteland 2's Kickstarter Project" pop up all over my twitter feed. I was confused. The people tweeting it seem to be pretty geeky and I have never heard of a Wasteland 1, what am I missing out on? Upon clicking the blue link I see that Wasteland was an old the first post-apocalyptic RPG which was the inspiration to the Fallout series.

After reading the project page, watching the video, and reading the subsequent I have come to the conclusion that the inXile guys (or at least Brian Cargo) are douchebags. From the information given it feels as though they hold themselves in such high regard, that a lot of people will follow suit in making classic rpgs just as soon as they make another one. In the last update they put out they even said "This is a paradigm shift that is way bigger than Wasteland 2." That comes off to me about the same way as saying "our shit doesn't stink." I'm not the first nor am I going to be the last with saying that either of those statements are not true. Nothing is going to change drastically, for good or bad. The inXile guys are not that important in the grand scheme of things. Sorry.

The video itself also just seems off putting. We see Brian Fargo is various rooms where the furniture seems very expensive. Not that says anything about the game development, but it feels like it doesn't suit the nature of a kickstarter project. In the double fine series of videos never once do we see tim schafer sitting on an expensive couch with a plethora or pillows in front of some expensive black and gold curtains saying that he needs our help to get his game funded. I understand that the couch itself has nothing to do with the game being funded, but it's not the right visual tone. And having the right visual tone will help people decide to fund your project or not.

Lastly in regards to inXile, it pisses me off that they mention "We set the highest goal for kickstarter and we met it in 2 days!" Fuck you. That has nothing to do with the game. Just the fact that you got funded in 2 days is what matters. Not the amount of money it took, that is implied. No need to raise yourself above the rest.

Before I go let me say that I can fund their project and call them douchebags. I can not fund the game and call them douchebags as well. How I feel about the people themselves doesn't need to be a major factor of whether or not I am going to fund their project. Just because I do not like the way he is presenting a fan funded Wasteland 2 doesn't mean I have to boycott it. As a recent example: Phil Fish is a dick, but I'm still going to buy Fez if it is ever released.

I surprisingly felt the same when I looked around their Kickstarter page. I'm sure they're fine dudes, but they definitely come off as being douches.

As for Wasteland 2, I was sort of considering funding them but since I don't have any fondness for Wasteland and short on cash I think I'll just wait and see how the game turns out.

@ashkanhoss29 said:

I surprisingly felt the same when I looked around their Kickstarter page. I'm sure they're fine dudes, but they definitely come off as being douches.

As for Wasteland 2, I was sort of considering funding them but since I don't have any fondness for Wasteland and short on cash I think I'll just wait and see how the game turns out.

my issue is more they're talking about a delivery date of late 2013 which to me anyway seems like way to long a time to make any commitment to it. I feel like I will have just forgotten about it by then. I'd be fine buying it around that time maybe if it looks like it's going to be pretty good.

I didn't get that vibe. I think Brian Fargo has been genuine in his pitch for this project and his surprise and appreciation for its rapid success. His attempts at humor weren't as clever, natural, or self-deprecating as Tim Schafer's, but Tim is one of the best humorists in the game industry, so there's little shame in being out-funnied by Tim Schafer.

In the cases where Fargo seems to be blowing his own horn, I think it's fair to accuse him of mild immodesty, but he's not a liar. He did found Interplay, and Interplay did develop and/or publish a ton of awesome cRPGs throughout the 90's. I think Fargo's trying to draw attention to that history because many gamers today may understandably not know about it and therefore not immediately appreciate the weight of this kickstarter project as being a return to those roots. Brian Fargo is also trying to drum up hype and excitement for the project, which is only natural, since the more enthusiastic people become, the more they'll want to share in the glory of making this 'formerly impossible' game a reality (by throwing some money behind it).

So I have a feeling Wasteland 2 is going to use the assets that were made for the Fallout MMO.

You're all fucking retarded.  These guys are the guys who made Interplay and a whole bunch of seminal games which shaped the industry as we now know it, especially companies like Bioware, Bethesda and the what used to be Obsidian.
 
Fuck.
 
*spits on the ground*

@VisariLoyalist said:

@ashkanhoss29 said:

I surprisingly felt the same when I looked around their Kickstarter page. I'm sure they're fine dudes, but they definitely come off as being douches.

As for Wasteland 2, I was sort of considering funding them but since I don't have any fondness for Wasteland and short on cash I think I'll just wait and see how the game turns out.

my issue is more they're talking about a delivery date of late 2013 which to me anyway seems like way to long a time to make any commitment to it. I feel like I will have just forgotten about it by then. I'd be fine buying it around that time maybe if it looks like it's going to be pretty good.

October of 2013 is next year. That's really not a long time in the game development world.

@WilltheMagicAsian said:

So I have a feeling Wasteland 2 is going to use the assets that were made for the Fallout MMO.

inxile is a different company that was making the Fallout MMO though?

also their last game was garbage (hunted: the subtitle subtitle) so...

Yeah you're looking way into it. Calm down.

@Hailinel said:

@VisariLoyalist said:

@ashkanhoss29 said:

I surprisingly felt the same when I looked around their Kickstarter page. I'm sure they're fine dudes, but they definitely come off as being douches.

As for Wasteland 2, I was sort of considering funding them but since I don't have any fondness for Wasteland and short on cash I think I'll just wait and see how the game turns out.

my issue is more they're talking about a delivery date of late 2013 which to me anyway seems like way to long a time to make any commitment to it. I feel like I will have just forgotten about it by then. I'd be fine buying it around that time maybe if it looks like it's going to be pretty good.

October of 2013 is next year. That's really not a long time in the game development world.

I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying for my money I can't really see how I know that I will even want it that far out or if I won't care in the least about it. That's just my personal problem I guess. Again I am still open to buying it when it comes out but timelines of multiple years is where kickstarter breaks down for me as a consumer. I totally understand how people who have a deeper connection with the potential game would be willing to do that though.

@GeneralZod37 said:

Before I go let me say that I can fund their project and call them douchebags. I can not fund the game and call them douchebags as well.

Yes, yes you can!

@GeneralZod37 said:

In the double fine series of videos never once do we see tim schafer sitting on an expensive couch with a plethora or pillows

A couch and pillows?! A plethora of pillows even!? InXile are decadent bourgeois scum!

@Animasta said:

@WilltheMagicAsian said:

So I have a feeling Wasteland 2 is going to use the assets that were made for the Fallout MMO.

inxile is a different company that was making the Fallout MMO though?

also their last game was garbage (hunted: the subtitle subtitle) so...

Oh, I didn't read the kickstarter, I thought it was just Interplay.

@Animasta: One could argue they were out of their element making a modern WRPG for babies and fucked up big time because of that.

Frankly, it doesn't matter.  They made their goal within less than a day.   Every extra dollar is just more capital to make a better game. There's a whole history to the Interplay and ineXile story and not all of it was pleasant (especially near the end as the Star Trek TV license was winding down) and the ineXile guys got burned.  They're speaking from experience and not as douchebags.  Tim Schafer was a lot more belligerent when he got burned and yet people forget that happened.  

The bigger issue is that Fargo hasn't stayed relevant like Tim Schafer. I wish all this money (and a portion of double fine's) would have gone to indie fund, which gives money to creators that aren't proven, but have good ideas and/or prototypes that just need more polish/time/money to become shipable products.

Q.U.B.E. and Dear Esther were a part of indie fund, and I think giving money to a consortium of sorts is better then throwing it recklessly at a single project. Dear Esther took 55k to polish for retail, So presumably you'd be able to fund games on that magnitude, and bring more and more creatives into the pool of developers.

Maybe if Fargo had put together some kind of proof of concept for Wasteland 2, I'd be more willing to fund. Also, a genuine appeal ala Tim Schafer was far more successful then the whining that Fargo did.

Uh, douches? Dude, of course they're coming across as overly confident and self assured. Am I going to give my money to a Kickstarter that sounds anything but overly confident and self assured? They need to come across as competent and over qualified as possible to convince people to give money. Am I going to fund a humble sounding Kickstarter? "Well, we made other games, but we're really not that special..." Who's going to fund that?

For such a pioneering company that apparently shaped the role playing reality we have today, I'd be disappointed if they weren't sounding smug and proud. They're asking for funds to create a sequel for what is considered to be thee first real post-apocalyptic role playing game as well as the legendary Fallout games, this is a big deal. 
  
@GeneralZod37 said:

Nothing is going to change drastically, for good or bad. The inXile guys are not that important in the grand scheme of things. Sorry.

@Piqued_Interest said:

Maybe if Fargo had put together some kind of proof of concept for Wasteland 2, I'd be more willing to fund.

Imagine Wasteland but there are polygons. Hope this helps.

@SeriouslyNow:

Just saying that if Indie Fund had the slush fund of the combined total between DF Kickstarter and Wasteland 2 (Some 4.5 million), they would be able to fund a greater number of games, and games with loftier ambitions then those that they have funded so far. Essentially Indie Fund is a publisher, without all the business problems of the bigger names in the industry.

I'm excited to see what comes out of both projects, but am wary nonetheless. I still think it would have been cool to see the game Schafer originally had in mind when he asked for 400k to split between video production and development.

So sure, my point is pure conjecture because Wasteland 2 has been funded - and will probably end up with around three times the amount they originally asked for.

@GeneralZod37: I rewatched the first Double Fine Kickstarter video and Tim Schaffer does sit on a very nice couch at the end of it, just like Brian Fargo. Admittedly there's only one pillow on it, but there are also two plushies so I'm going to consider that both Tim and Brian are shoving their lavish lifestyle in our face.

@artgarcrunkle said:

@Piqued_Interest said:

Maybe if Fargo had put together some kind of proof of concept for Wasteland 2, I'd be more willing to fund.

Imagine Wasteland but there are polygons. Hope this helps.

I wouldn't speak so soon. Apparently they are leaning toward making it a top down game like the original wasteland for some god awful reason. I am hoping when they hit 2 mil (if they haven't already) they buy a clue and try to bring it out of the 80's.

I'm sorry, did I say they were shoving their lavish lifestyles in our face? No. I just said that asking for money in such a place doesn't really help, visually.

I honestly believe nothing really big is going to change. If things do change, Wasteland 2 is not the reason why.

@GeneralZod37 said:

I'm sorry, did I say they were shoving their lavish lifestyles in our face? No. I just said that asking for money in such a place doesn't really help, visually.

I honestly believe nothing really big is going to change. If things do change, Wasteland 2 is not the reason why.

I think the "paradigm shift" they are referring to has nothing to do with the game. I think it has more to do with the fact that two separate groups of game designers have now proven they can get over 1 million dollars to develop a game purely from fan contributions.

Just so you know, I kind of agree. They do come off as holy then thou douches in a way. I still like that this game is getting made though (like you said I don't have to like the people to want/like a game).  =)

I'm sorry, did I say they were shoving their lavish lifestyles in our face? No. I just said that asking for money in such a place doesn't really help, visually.

I honestly believe nothing really big is going to change. If things do change, Wasteland 2 is not the reason why.

I don't think Hunted was a great game, but I played it and it was a fun little ride. Maybe near the end it got a little meat wally, but all action games end up doing that. I thought the two protagonists in Hunted were actually fun to listen to and banter. They had a believable rapport, which I don't get from most games (Rockstar games especially).

I like RPGs and I like the post-apocalypse and I like video games. To be indifferent about this is totally reasonable. To get angry about it means that you're not worth anyone listening to.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@GeneralZod37 said:

I'm sorry, did I say they were shoving their lavish lifestyles in our face? No. I just said that asking for money in such a place doesn't really help, visually.

I honestly believe nothing really big is going to change. If things do change, Wasteland 2 is not the reason why.

LOL. Funded in record time and you think nothing will come of it. You're a guru dude. SUCH INSIGHT.

Yeah I mean it's not like the rest of the industry has their eyes on this whole Kickstarter thing and how it will pan out or anything.

@benson said:

@GeneralZod37: I rewatched the first Double Fine Kickstarter video and Tim Schaffer does sit on a very nice couch at the end of it, just like Brian Fargo. Admittedly there's only one pillow on it, but there are also two plushies so I'm going to consider that both Tim and Brian are shoving their lavish lifestyle in our face.

Obviously, the only way to be respected is through sitting on a second-hand futon.

@Hailinel said:

Obviously, the only way to be respected is through sitting on a second-hand futon.

Right now I'm using my computer while standing up on one leg to make a political statement. Down with the Couchocracy!

@Hailinel said:

Obviously, the only way to be respected is through sitting on a second-hand futon.

Right now I'm using my computer while standing up on one leg to make a political statement. Down with the Couchocracy!

I have some cynicism in regards to this project, certainly. Brian Fargo has yet to make a modern title of any real import (InXile has, since its founding in 2002, made The Bard's Tale reboot/remake and Hunted: The Demon's Forge. Yeah. Not exactly hitting it out of the park) and some of these ex-interplay guys haven't worked on a game since the mid 90s. Still, I figure that if the game is less than great it will have only been $15 for me and I will be glad that they at least tried. Also, I have a thing for writing about mediocre RPGs. Should be worth at least a good blog if nothing else.

I thought Brian was honest and agreeable in his pitch. I didn't get any douchebag vibes off him. It doesn't hurt that he's also known within the industry as one of the nicest and pleasant guys to work with, period. Everyone has nothing but good things to say about him.

Secondly, even if they are patting themselves on the back a little bit, if anyone, literally anyone in the games industry has the track record and clout Brian Fargo does, he of all people could get away with it. A lot of younger or console-only gamers have zero clue just how influential and essential Interplay was to gaming as a whole, and it was all Brian's doing.

How funny would be if this game never came out?

You sound like a douchebag. Who the fuck are you to judge them when you don't even fucking know them?

inXile doesn't have a great track record but on the other hand little can be expected in a development + publisher climate so hostile to RPGs (new definition of RPG is really profitable game, to quote Boyarsky). I have confidence Fargo will know how to manage a project and assemble the necessary talent. I've seen some tweets about getting some of the original Wasteland designers back, and they should know a thing or two about designing CRPGs as they ought to be designed - party-based strategy games with lots of potential builds, exploration, choice and consequence, etc.

The paradigm shift is the new relationship between gamers and developers thanks to Kickstarter.

I feel like all these Kickstarter guys are kinda douchebags. If you feel the need to give some money to guys who are putting out boxed games, published by Microsoft and shit, go buy some indie games instead. They need the money a lot more, and their games will be infinitely more interesting.

@GunslingerPanda said:

I feel like all these Kickstarter guys are kinda douchebags. If you feel the need to give some money to guys who are putting out boxed games, published by Microsoft and shit, go buy some indie games instead. They need the money a lot more, and their games will be infinitely more interesting.

I assume you've never bought a boxed game from a big publisher?

@zels said:

@GunslingerPanda said:

I feel like all these Kickstarter guys are kinda douchebags. If you feel the need to give some money to guys who are putting out boxed games, published by Microsoft and shit, go buy some indie games instead. They need the money a lot more, and their games will be infinitely more interesting.

I assume you've never bought a boxed game from a big publisher?

Of course I have. What's that got to do with anything?

What I've never done is given a bunch of money to someone to fund their hobby when they have a well-paying job themselves.

Didn't inexile do Hunted? That game sucked.

@GunslingerPanda said:

What I've never done is given a bunch of money to someone to fund their hobby when they have a well-paying job themselves.

So one group's job is their hobby while the other group's hobby is their job, with both "hobby" and "job" referring to the same thing - game development?

How is funding a game and receiving the final product any different than buying a game? Kickstarter ain't a charity.

Of course I have. What's that got to do with anything?

If you feel the need to give some money to guys who are putting out boxed games, published by Microsoft and shit, go buy some indie games instead.

@MrMcJerk said:

Didn't inexile do Hunted? That game sucked.

There's a significant difference between 2d turn-based games and 3d fighters. I don't see how their work on Demon's Forge has any bearing on this project.

@zels said:

@GunslingerPanda said:

What I've never done is given a bunch of money to someone to fund their hobby when they have a well-paying job themselves.

So one group's job is their hobby while the other group's hobby is their job, with both "hobby" and "job" referring to the same thing - game development?

How is funding a game and receiving the final product any different than buying a game? Kickstarter ain't a charity.

Of course I have. What's that got to do with anything?

If you feel the need to give some money to guys who are putting out boxed games, published by Microsoft and shit, go buy some indie games instead.

@MrMcJerk said:

Didn't inexile do Hunted? That game sucked.

There's a significant difference between 2d turn-based games and 3d fighters. I don't see how their work on Demon's Forge has any bearing on this project.

Number 1 - I could go give $14 to their Kickstarter and receive nothing for my money - That's a charity.

Number 2 - There's also a much more significant difference between making a game in the late 80s, and making a game in 2012. So far, inXile have shown, with Hunted, that they're pretty shit at making modern games. I'm just going off the evidence here.

I have major doubts that this game will turn out to be any good and cannot believe so many people are rigorously defending those douches and acting like this is some sort of turning point in the industry; it really isn't, and you'll see that in a few years time.

Regarding the title of the thread, I totally agree, and I'd say the people desperately defending them are kinda douchebags too.

@GunslingerPanda said:

I feel like all these Kickstarter guys are kinda douchebags. If you feel the need to give some money to guys who are putting out boxed games, published by Microsoft and shit, go buy some indie games instead. They need the money a lot more, and their games will be infinitely more interesting.

I'm not sure what you mean by "these Kickstarter guys". If you're referring to Double Fine and inexile, in both cases, the games they want to make are games that would never be funded and published by publishers. This is why many people helped them fund their projects. I doubt people would have supported them as much (if at all) if they just wanted to make a game in a genre like regular-ass FPS when the market today is filled with FPSs. You're also forgetting that when you help kickstart the project, you're also getting the game; often at a much better price than what you'd pay if you wait and buy the game when it comes out. You get all sorts of exclusive goodies, too.

Didn't they say that if they were short or something that Brian Fargo would put $100,000 of his own money to the project? That made him and by extension the rest of them seem okay in my book. The rewards they are giving to the backers seem very good as well. It doesn't really matter how swanky their office looks if they had $900,000 laying around they wouldn't need to be on Kickstarter and thats the whole point of it.

If he lived and worked in an austere white Apple Store-esque building with no furniture or windows created by a Swedish design collective, would you pledge more than fifteen dollars?

I mean, I would, but that has nothing to do with how many pillows he had on his couch.

@GeneralZod37 said:

In the last update they put out they even said "This is a paradigm shift that is way bigger than Wasteland 2." That comes off to me about the same way as saying "our shit doesn't stink." I'm not the first nor am I going to be the last with saying that either of those statements are not true. Nothing is going to change drastically, for good or bad. The inXile guys are not that important in the grand scheme of things. Sorry.

You should probably read his full post.

This is a paradigm shift that is way bigger than Wasteland 2. This is the beginning of a new era in gaming where the developer gets to work directly with the fans to build the type of product that the fans want. No focus groups, no pitches to the marketing team, no trying to get an executive committee to group-think their way to a project green-light. Now we just have a developer with a creative idea that resonates and a group of dedicated fans who are willing to lay down their money to buy it.

He is not talking about Kickstarter and how funding a game with Kickstarter helps connecting fans directrly to the developers.