To be honest I am actually kind of excited for the xbox one (I thought the press conference was alright) . Playing video games is fun and all but I also have other interests as well. If I can have one thing that does all then I am pretty stoked. I would love to watch a game with friends with Skype and then play a game with them as well. I'm sure it will have the games so I am not worried about that . And to be honest it does not seem much different then steam. While unlikely, If Kinect can actually do some cool things with it I will be more than satisfied.

I know some people are thoroughly concerned about this, but honestly when I read some of their comments all that comes to mind are people in basements with tinfoil hats.

I'm stunned by all the BS, the uncertainties created, the cancellation of the post-E3 q&a and the weird reveal event they had where they pretty much had nothing to show off but the ability to switch between your console interface and live TV, and then split-screening it which later proved to work a lot less smoothly in interviews surfacing after the live event.

From the Giant Bomb DRM video:

Ryan: "I'm shaking the camera's head at this."

Vinny: "That's fucked."

Jeff: "That is fucked"

Patrick: "[Microsoft is] ruining everyone else's experience, or making it difficult for them."

Patrick: "It's all bullshit."

Patrick: "Looking forward to having all these questions clarified at the interviews I no longer have with Microsoft executives at E3."

Vinny: "I want to be able to loan stuff." "Let me manage my own rights. That is the fight that really needs to happen." "This is kind of like my nightmare situation where this is benefiting nobody but publishers and Gamestop."

- - - -

They must all have tinfoil hats. And I didn't know that the Giant Bomb offices were in a basement.

A lot of the restrictions are pretty crazy, just because Microsoft wants such a closed system that they have perfect control over. It really feels like they are saying "fuck the consumer" with some of the points they've already clarified (ha!). Microsoft is really letting the publishers' wants dictate their console design, which I am not a huge fan of.

Plus, they've really fucked things up with their inconsistent and cryptic messaging. Just come out and explain things in a detailed manner already! The longer they wait, the more people are going to talk and blow things even more out of proportion which creates even more bad press for Microsoft.

Of course I disagree with them. They all are proud users of steam which is almost exactly the same thing. Look I like steam as well, I just don't think it is very much different then the x1, and find many complaints very hypocritical.

@spaceinsomniac: I thought their old office was a basement?

Oh and yes MS PR isn't good. No doubt about that.

@believer258: I think so if my memory of Person 4 endurance run is correct.

@believer258 said:

Both their first offices and their 2nd offices were in basements.

AND DAMN IT THEY WERE AWESOME.

On topic:

From my poll thread, of the 293 voters roughly 18 people have said they're already ready to buy the thing.

So no, @dgtlmeatloaf, you're not alone! Around 6% of the forums are with you!

TBH i just can't see a reason to buy this system. None of Microsoft's exclusives seem interesting at all to me and i already have a decent gaming PC that can play games that are coming out pretty well and the the TV thing isn't interesting to me at all. So i just can't see what i would use it for.

@spaceinsomniac: Not sure if I'm missing a joke here, but if not, which video is that from?

The one which went up today of course!

http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/an-xbox-one-drm-breakdown/2300-7459/

It's pretty good.

Yes OP, your social agency shill astroturfing made up self is the only one excited for the Xbox One.

@somejerk: Sorry I am not a shill, just a college student. Look all I am saying is that people's legitimate concerns are being construed to make ridiculous arguments.

Both PS4 & Xbox One are dead to me at this stage. The price gap between console & PC in Aus is pretty staggering and with the way things are going I can see prices going up again, maybe not at launch, but soon after. With RRP at $109 today and the majority of local game retailers selling at 85-99+ bucks I just can't afford to be a console gamer anymore, especially when I can get 45/50 dollar launch prices with PC titles, and even cheaper prices if I wait.

With these new changes there's no real reason to buy a console anymore. PC's tech has stabilised so there's no longer the issue of an 18 month gap between major hardware upgrades. I can get 5 years out of a modern PC now, so why go console ? All of the DRM I have been avoiding with consoles up till now has finally arrived, so why should I pay more for a less powerful and flexible system that has higher game prices if it's simply a carbon copy of what I already have ?

It sucks, I wanted to be excited, I wanted to surprised, but if this is the direction they want to go then it's time for me to part ways with consoles.

How are they constructed? Care to explain a bit?

@darji It's construed not constructed.

It's great that PC tech has stabilized because that is why I delved into consoles. But I hear that support for gamepads is still sketchy. I can't imagine doing all the finger acrobatics called for in games like Vanquish and Ninja Gaiden on the mouse and keyboard. I'm not into shooters all that much so I really want a good alternative control system.

I think the difference is that Valve isn't a publicly traded company. Gabe Newel nearly went bankrupt delaying Half Life so that he could make sure it was the best they could make. He's proven that he has consumers interests in mind. He probably has more money than he needs and isn't greedy enough to gouge his consumers for more. Steam has been fairly consumer friendly.

On the other hand, Microsoft is a publicly traded company. The owners only care about profit. They haven't shown anything that is pro consumer.

Disclaimer: I don't have a steam account or own a microsoft product and haven't since 2006.

I like Forza. I like Forza rather a lot, and those Halo and Remedy games are pretty swell as well. So yes I'm excited for the Xbox One and will likely buy one at launch if Forza Five looks good at E3. The TV features don't really interest me since I don't live in the United States, but I'm always ready for a better Netflix experience.

The PS4 sounds really nice as well, but I'm still waiting for more info on exclusive games. Since MGS is no longer a Sony exclusive it's down to Naughty Dog and indie developers to draw my money into the pockets of Sony.

I'm a PC player so I'm set for life, but as an observer, the Xbox One looks like a bad joke and a haunting curse, I wouldn't wanna touch that thing with a 10 foot pole.

The PS4 on the other hand looks like a taste of heaven.

The difference is that I trust Valve, as far as I would trust any company anyway, and I don't really trust Microsoft to do things with the consumer in mind. Valve has quite a track record of doing well for the consumer, which is what has bought them a legion of loyal fans.

Also, I simply don't often use a computer without an internet connection, and these games will always work as long as Valve stays in business. I believe they have said they will make sure the games will still work if they go out of business as well. In other words, this copy of System Shock 2 that I bought from Steam works even now, more than a decade after release, and will continue to be available to me long into the future.

I don't trust MS to make sure that my games and my Xbox can still work halfway through the Xbox Two if they pull the plug on the XBone's servers. In fact, I'm pretty sure that once the XBone is no longer making any money, they'll essentially hit an off switch and all of those who haven't bought the newest one will either buy it or something else.

What's is the PS4's DRM going to be like. It's going to be close I'm sure. Microsoft took the plunge and is dragging everyone along. I'm still on board and think I'm going to get it but, it all hinges on how Sony wants to play.

I'm really interested to see what happens with the Kinect, now that every Xbox will ship with one, and the tech has no doubt improved.

I'm crazy excited and not afraid of this thing at all. It's actually less restrictive than Steam, and with digital downloads it will function in a very similar way. The console design is awesome, I love Kinect games already, and overall the console is sexy as hell. It's going to be a great launch.

Where do you guys get this bullshit seriously...

Here read this there is also a steam comparison

http://www.nowgamer.com/features/1955108/xbox_one_its_for_publishers_not_for_you.html

Excited might not be the right word, but I'm hoping they'll win me over with games at E3. I consider Halo, Gears, and Forza as the best in their respective genres, plus I love Rare and Remedy.

Or maybe they just like the idea of lending games to friends and renting games from the video store like they can do with blu rays.

Or maybe the insane ones are the ones who will support this.

• Eurogamer: Microsoft kills game ownership and expects us to smile
• Forbes Contributor: Microsoft's Shortsighted Approach Might Have Already Killed Xbox One
• Giant Bomb: The Giant Bomb staff deciphers the digital-rights policies for Microsoft's new console through interpretive dance
• Kotaku: The Xbox One Just Had A Very Bad Day
• Kotaku (2): When Will Gamers Say Enough Is Enough?
• LazyGamer: Microsoft confirms insane Xbox One DRM
• MCV UK: Indie retailers desperate for Xbox One pre-owned answers
• Metro UK: Xbox One and the corporate war against consumers
• NowGamer: Xbox One: It's For Publishers, Not For You
• The Guardian: Xbox One requires daily net connection
• Time: Microsoft’s Xbox One Used Games Policies Are Clear as Mud
• VG247: Xbox One: the record is broken, long live the record

I dunno man, what do Forbes know about business...

Some more differences: Steam's just one of the options you have on a PC. Specific games aside you aren't forced to use Steam to play on a PC. That means Valve has very direct competition from other stores and thus has more of an incentive to make sure their customers are happy by improving their service, pricing etc.

Steam DRM is optional. I can shut Steam off completely and go launch Antichamber from the executable, and it works. Other games like Amnesia require Steam to launch, but not afterwards. The offline mode isn't good, I won't argue that, but it exists.

It's not just Steam that people are fine with, digital games were more restricted on consoles last gen and people were generally fine with it. It's not hypocrisy because it's the new restrictions that people have a problem with.

It does not even matter if they know or not. This is bad publicity and people will now that. If the Time is calling your system and plan "draconian" many people will listen to it.

@chibithor: But is it about restrictions? Can I sell a game I bought on Steam? Can I lend my Steam game to a friend? You are tied to Steam in many ways. If I get banned from Steam for whatever reason do I lose access to all the games I own on that account? So why is it ok when you can't sell games or lend them on Steam but it's a huge drawback on the XBO? Because on Steam you can buy these games at a hefty discount. There are things to be upset about, but lets not pretend like a big part of this isn't simply about money - people want to buy games used for less and they want to borrow games from others instead of buying them.

The only thing that I think is pretty stupid is the 24hr syncing necessity to play offline single player games. It's not even an issue that will ever affect me as I haven't had an internet outage that lasted more than a few hours in the past 5 years - but still I think it's too short a window. If needed at all I'd say make it at least a week.

I'm excited to see what they have at E3.

None of the restrictions really affect me (buy everything I can digital; Xbox is always in the same place connected to the internet), I think the extra entertainment options are interesting, and the Kinect could be an amazing companion piece for games (as long as it really is much better like they say), so I guess I'm the target audience?

I do get the outrage though, to an extent. It's really funny to see people get so up in arms over a hobby.

@dgtlmeatloaf said:

Steam is different for several reasons. First is the details of the deal. Steam gives a MONTH in offline mode. That is dramatically different than the 24 hours that Microsoft is proposing. It is rare to go a month without internet access. A day? Happens regularly.

Steam has also show reliability. Games bought on their service at launch in 2003 still work today. They are still available today. If I buy a new computer in the next year, it will play all those games. They have shown both a length of support and attention to backwards compatibility. They are not perfect, but there are only a few exceptions rather than blanket rules. The idea that I will still have access to a game I buy today in ten years on my current PC hardware is high.

The Xbox One won't play the games I bought today, let alone in 2003. I accepted console lacking backwards compatibility because the discs would also work, even if LIVE goes away. When the Xbox Two comes out, there is a strong possibility it won't be backwards compatible either. So anything I buy today is locked to a specific species of hardware AND to a constant online check. There is no advantage of this system over Steam - it is worse terms for a worse experience.

Unless they reveal some mind blowing exclusives at E3, I don't know how anyone could be excited for this clusterfuck of a console. I might pick one up a few years from now, after I get a PS4 and Wii U.

A key difference is Valve has defined their DRM to be vendor specific. That is Steam only validates your account credentials against the games you have installed. Beyond that Valve makes no requirements or restrictions on the developer or (IMPORTANTLY) you. Individual games may go farther or do something more that ranges from "nothing" to "anti-cheat" to "Custom Built 3rd Draconian DRM" but that is on the ISV to handle and maintain.

This is a far cry from what current DRM Hardened console systems do today and a very far cry from what next generation looks like it is setting up to do.

You also don't pay $450 for Steam.

But you all ready paid to make the computer(or just buy it)

@dgtlmeatloaf: I am getting both consoles. First Xbox one and then, PS4 a year later.

@humanity: For the record the restrictions would have little effect on me as well. I have everything connected at all times, buy new and keep the games I get. I loaned MGS4 from a friend but that was a while ago.

You couldn't do any of those things on digital games ever and people are fine with that, Steam is not an exception here. But alternatives are important. If it was actually like Steam, one of many similar stores on the PC, then whatever. People would complain about the exclusives some, compare it to Steam, make a couple of snarky comments about Microsoft and then it'd mostly die down, as with Origin. That we're not talking about the PC but a closed system already makes a huge difference even if their policies were identical to Steam's. It is at the end of the day about the money but I think that's fine.

As for bans I think they're mostly locking accounts now and you still get access to your games. If you're suspended you don't, which I'll agree is dumb.

@chibithor: I'm not actually quite sure what the Steam alternatives are. I know some games run just fine on their own, but I notice a lot of PC games state that Steam is a requirement to play them. I know I can play on Origin but I'm also not familiar with their catalog. Does Origin have the same expansive library as Steam does or do they only deal with EA published titles? All I know is that more often than not PC games are tying themselves to Steam and less of them are capable of being able to run interdependently.

At the same time the closed system argument shouldn't really hold any weight. Why should it be any less of a bad deal just because you can choose not to use it? It doesn't change the fact that it's still the same rotten deal with the inability to have any real ownership of your digital titles. Millions of people continue using Steam despite certain shortcomings and in fact scoff with righteous disdain at alternatives such as Origin.

Sony has just been handed the next generation on a silver platter. All they have to do is not require an internet connection and they win. They can do the bare minimum that EA, Activision, and Ubisoft are asking for through the discs. Sony has a chance to come away heros.

Here's another concern I want to bring up. We don't even know what's Sony's policies are regarding sharing and lending of games and DRM overall. Also, Microsoft isn't saying that they are NOT going to ever allow lending it's just the structure the way it's set up now with games being tied to an account and a system with said account, they haven't figured yet how lending is going to work. Here's the excerpt where I'm taking this from:

"Third party publishers may opt in or out of supporting game resale and may set up business terms or transfer fees with retailers. Microsoft does not receive any compensation as part of this. In addition, third party publishers can enable you to give games to friends. Loaning or renting games won’t be available at launch, but we are exploring the possibilities with our partners."

Sure the situation in and of itself is pretty effed up. Personally, I'm just gonna hang back and watch this all unfold while playing my games on my PC. :) Other than that, I'm really bummed out if I were in the position of other people wherein my options are just the consoles.

There was a time when you could do those things this gen, without giving away any of your consumer rights.

I'm not as pissed off as most people on the internet, but there's just nothing that really grabs me about it. Just not that interested.