1. 24-hour checkin
2. Games when servers are shut down
3. Disconnecting Kinect

24 hour checkin hurts me the most. My internet is pretty sketchy & slow 500kbps (I think the recommended was 1.5mbps, LOL) and power outages happen quite a bit too :(

I don't want my games to go up in smoke

I get why Kinect has to be connected though, because if you were able to unplug it any meaningful additions to the OS would have to be doable with the controller. Shipping the console with the Kinect was part 1 and having it always connected is part 2. Without these two parts Kinect would not make any meaningful additions to the games/OS.

If Kameo 2 is a launch title all will be forgiven.

All of it.

When I see people saying things like this, I can't help but think of domestic abuse comparisons.

"Oh Mama, I know he sometimes hits me, but he's not all bad. Just look at these earrings he bought me!"

24 hour check. I bring my 360 to holiday resorts and stuff to play with my friends and the 24 hour check thing will essentially make this impossible. Very very dumb move.

Besides that, however, everything else sounds pretty alright to me.

What?

Heaven forbid people buy a console for a game they really want.

@spaceinsomniac: to be truthful, i wouldn't tolerate the amount of shit this console has attached to it no matter the exclusives/launch games. Here's hoping ps4 doesn't shit the bed, because I am keen to try PS+. If both consoles have the same policies (pretty likely) then i'll buy a 3DS xl and maybe the revised xbox 360 slim v2

Example one: "I have no problem with any of these DRM issues, and I can't wait to play a certain exclusive title."

Example two: "I have a serious problem with this DRM crap being forced on us, but in the end it won't matter if there is a game I really want to play."

I'm criticizing the second example, not the first.

Glad to hear it, but only because you personally dislike the restrictions that Microsoft's DRM will force upon you, not because everyone needs to agree with me. Again, see example one.

@spaceinsomniac:

Software doesn't work the same way movies and music do precisely because of the EULA (to be precise, the L part of it). Because you aren't buying a copy of the content, you're literally paying for permission to use it as the publisher intended it to be used. Therefore, the publisher retains distribution rights that they'd normally forfeit by actually selling you permission and not the actual contents of the disc. And the criteria for enforceable EULAs has been pretty firmly established by the circuit courts...as long as you state it up front and it doesn't violate any other laws, as you stated, it's good. If you could find a law being violated, I'm sure they'd have to change things.

@spaceinsomniac: You're comparing it to domestic abuse when it's just someone weighing the pros and cons and deciding to buy something. "Criticizing" , come on now.

I am screen capping this, and PMing you this exactly one year from now to see if you regret relating the X-bone to domestic abuse.

I'm comparing one person justifying actions that hurt them, with another example of someone justifying actions that hurt them. I am NOT comparing severity, or importance, or anything else, other than comparing one form of apologist to another form of apologist.

365 days from now, I'm pretty sure I'm still not going to be happy with any company who manipulated the system to essentially rob me of my property rights, so I guess I'll see you in a year.

One is about your videogames and ones about physical abuse, but if you really think you'll still be going this crazy about it a year from now then ill scrap it.

Isn't the ultimate DRM that you have to have the camera on at all times. Who is actually gonna get up and turn the internet connection off once it's on, and isn't it a huge pain in the rear end to have to do that? the more i hear about this console the less i want one.

The 24h bullcrap.

The rest i could live with because i never use those things anyway. I don't support them though but realistically they wouldn't affect me directly.

@spaceinsomniac: So you're who those "_________ is Hitler" arguments are targeted towards. As long as the words are the same, the comparison works.

"They both hurt." Well, that's that then. Let's not even use our brains for one second and stop there.

To me, I fell like you never know what's going to happen but if I ,god forbid loose my job, and can't pay for Internet , I can't booze up and depression play like a proper unemployed person. That's crazy. Fuckin cah ray zee. Go d I hope Sony doesn't pull this kinda horseshit.

No shit.

But yet you think that its okay because "There the same general idea"

Azure has been around since 2005ish and has never come close to competing against AWS or even Google App Engine.

They're not at all the same general idea. Again, the only similarity here is the justification, but if you and two or three others want to keep bumping this thread because "OMG, he thinks that DRM is the same thing as hitting women!" be my guest.

If you really wanna keep trying to justify this also be my guest.

The only real shitty thing about this is the lack of solid and complete information. That said the policies that will need to be in place are so complex, and need to account for so many things, the needs of consumers, publishers, retail and Microsoft that they are and should be in total flux until the last minute. Even then they should be ever changing over the consoles lifetime, and they CAN change like that. So really... it's vastly too much effort to even think about these things right now given the thing doesn't even exist yet (isn't buy-able by consumers, publishers have no idea what they will do yet for their power end of things). The only thing that is on my mind is, how long it is till I play watch_dogs, and what neat games could be shown at e3 that would make me happy until then. Also Fallout 4, would make me very happy inside.

At least I'll always have my 360, I guess. Guess it's time for me to tap into my inner Sony fanboy and ride the PS4 train for the next couple of years.

Man, when you lay them out like that... they don't really bother me so much.

Losing used games would stink, but I know it's a kind of eventuality, considering the digitizing of console gaming. It wouldn't even be much of an issue if game prices went down significantly over time like they do on PC.

My biggest concern would just be over the fate of my games once Microsoft turns off the servers. It's a similar concern I had with Steam at first. But they've inspired my confidence over time. Microsoft is going to have to do a lot to achieve a similar level of trust.

I thought they clarified that the Kinect can be turned off, and many of its features(like listening for commands) can be switched off. It just has to be hooked up to the system, and they recommend having it on while using the console. Their lack of clarity on these issues is the biggest problem, as I get the impression the actual reality is far more reasonable than many have speculated.

Mine is slightly different:

The fact Microsoft have the audacity to think it's okay to disable a core function of your hardware for not informing them that you are connected to the Internet.

Fuck. THAT.

Guess what, if I lose the Internet I can still play all my games. My PC is always logged into Steam so all losing the net does is impede my ability to look at my friends list or use other Internet functions. My computer doesn't then decide to not play any games.

Steam has had it's own issues with offline mode, it's not as easy as "hey when the net goes down your games still work 100%". It may be like that now... maybe... but when my net was down after skyrim launched and I couldn't play skyrim on steam... that was super lame :( At the time, and even still you need to have actually go into offline mode while you're still online and launch a game, and make sure it has it's updates and everything fully downloaded. It's not a hassle until it is, then you're sitting there starting a this skyrim.exe that just boots steam then yells at you :( They haven't significantly polished this feature up cause it's so unused by people I'd imagine, doesn't seem hard to actually get working close to 'seamless' once people actually use it more. I actually had and used a pirated version of skyrim, thankfully, during that time. I think it was only a day or maybe 2 at the most, roomie didn't hold his end of the internet bill up (what are you gunna do :( ). If I didn't have that other copy of the game and had to rely on my steam copy... I'd have had to like go outside or something, go for a walk for a few days I guess.

They are trying to figure out ways to bring digital games to consoles without opening things up to rampant piracy like what kinda plagues PC gaming right now (it's vastly easier for me to pirate a game than it is to buy it, because the clicks it takes to go through a checkout is more clicks than a torrent, currently... also free, but hey I love games and buy most/all of them anyways so price really never mattered lol).

As a PC gamer I don't care for any of these except for the Kinect always on thing... Maybe.

poll fail because no "all of the above" option.

@sooty: What, exactly, are the odds you lose both main household Internet connection and your 3G/LTE phone service (MS has said the once daily check can be accomplished via mobile data connection too) at the same time?

While the actual game DRM does not bother me (if I ever get a One I'll just buy every game digitally and pretend that I'm using Steam), the online checks and the creepy ever-watchful Kinect are a little too Orwellian for me, particularly in the wake of the NSA phone/internet monitoring scandal.

@yetiantics: I voted 'None of this bothers me in the least.' because most of the choices were inaccurate based on partial information.

24 hour check in, if I don't have internet for longer than 24 hours I either have bigger problems or in a situation where having a xb1 is not important.

Other than that, don't care one bit about being able to resell my games since steam is the same way.

I really like that people are up in arms over the NSA thing. Do you know how much information a store gets about you when you get one of their discount cards?

As for kinect

Vote with your wallet. Play games naked.

The 24 hour connection thing. I don't have reliable enough internet to be able to guarantee that on a daily basis and losing the ability to play games if I lost the internet for a few days is just crazy.

I expect Sony's DRM to be very similar to what we're seeing here, but I do think they'll be much more lenient with that time scale, which could be the deciding factor for me if/when I ever buy these systems.

@the_laughing_man: It's not so much that I'm up in arms over the NSA thing than I don't want to voluntarily bring a device in my house that is exacting enough in its capabilities to calculate my heartbeat based on micropigmentation in my face when we're living in an age where a major world power has deemed it necessary to collect and spy on private communications en masse in the name of national security. Phones are one thing, infrared cameras in my bedroom are completely different.

Ms has said it can be turned off. And im sure its just as easy to flip it and have it face in another direction.

Well that's just the thing games aren't things you buy anymore they are services the days of archiving the previous generation are gone. You play the games while they are relevant and then you're done. That's the industry now.

Care to explain? I tried to be objective with the wording of the choices.

And YOU having internet is just half the equation when it comes to logging into Xbox Live. I mean Hell, Xbox Live went down just a few days after that whole Adam Orth twitter stupidity, which just couldn't be a better example of just how flawed and needlessly restrictive this system will be.

Finally, Steam is the same way with DIGITAL TITLES, and Steam allows you to play OFFLINE. When you find someone complaining about XBLA games and the inability to sell them, then you just go ahead and make all the Steam comparisons you want.

Fuck that. That's not how the industry is NOW, it's how the industry will be THEN. The question is if gamers should allow THEN to take place before game companies get rid of physical media, and the answer is NO.

If I own a physical object, I better be able to use it as long as I have the hardware that is used to play it, and I better be able to sell, loan, trade, or borrow it like any other physical object. You want to sell me a digital title, then I won't have these expectations.

Doesn't bother me at all. Online every 24 hours isn't a big deal at all, heck a persistent internet connection wouldn't even be a problem, every device I own is online 24/7 and my internet has never gone down. If it did I'd go the fuck outside.

Not being able to play games 10 years down the road if they shut down the servers? Who cares.... You pay almost as much as a game to go to the movies these days ($15 a ticket for two tickets, usually add in dinner / snacks and gas, you easily have $60 for one night of entertainment) and you don't get to keep seeing the movie every day, so playing the games I buy for 10 years is time enough.

I love the Kinect and requiring it will probably lead to it being used for more things.

I don't do discs, so used games aren't an issue for me. A lot of my 360 games are digital downloads and I can't sell or loan those, so it's not a problem at all. The only people it's a problem for is people stuck in the past resistant to the future.

It is more the need to connect to microsofts servers every 24 hours which I already don't do with my consoles... sometimes they are offline for months. But I really hate every aspect of it, from not being able to loan friends games for a couple of weeks if they want to try a series out or something. But also, what happens to everyones consoles once or if microsofts servers go down? Are they just bricks?

• Game rentals are not supported - Nothing was said about this, it might up to the publisher to offer timed deals or free weekends like steam.
• Not being able to disconnect Kinect, or turn it off separately from the console itself. - They said you can pause or completely turn off the kinect in the release from major nelson. Also, collecting millions of hours of grimy audio a day is not as valuable as people think.
• The uncertainty of what happens to your game collection once Microsoft eventually turns off the Xbox One servers. - They haven't said anything on this at all yet and assuming they don't have a DRM kill switch like steam does if steam explodes is fear mongering.

I never buy physical media if I can help it and plan on buying less and less as time goes on, so I'm going to make steam comparisons because physical game media is losing ground every year. If more than half of consoles sales are still physical by then end of the xb1 life cycle in 2018~2020 then I'll eat my shoe.

Go and count the number of times XBL has had downtime longer than 24 hours? It's pretty small set, not since the holiday of 2007 was there any long lasting down time. Putting the authentication on the same servers as matching making would be a rookie mistake.

That all being said, I won't buy an XB1 or PS4 until there is something that I absolutely must play as an exclusive and stick to PC and steam DRM

Game rentals are not supported - Nothing was said about this, it might up to the publisher to offer timed deals or free weekends like steam.

Quoting directly from Microsoft "Loaning or renting games won’t be available at launch, but we are exploring the possibilities with our partners."

Not being able to disconnect Kinect, or turn it off separately from the console itself. - They said you can pause or completely turn off the kinect in the release from major nelson.

Pause =/= completely turn off. Again, quoting from Microsoft: "If you don’t want the Kinect sensor on while playing games or enjoying your entertainment, you can pause Kinect. To turn off your Xbox One, just say “Xbox Off.”

The uncertainty of what happens to your game collection once Microsoft eventually turns off the Xbox One servers. - They haven't said anything on this at all yet and assuming they don't have a DRM kill switch like steam does if steam explodes is fear mongering.

Hence "uncertainty of what happens." There is no assumption here, just uncertainty. Just like Microsoft allowing customers to give their games to ONE friend ONCE and ONLY if they've been on your friends list for at least 30 days, and then giving publishers the tools to screw you out of even that extremely limited right. Uncertainty galore.

And again, Steam doesn't need a DRM kill switch, because Steam allows people to play their games offline.

I don't mind them trying to stop used game sales and lending, but everything else is pretty horrible. Everyone I know has switched from either 360 or PS3 to PC in the last few years and with all this console drama most of them aren't planning to get any new consoles.

Any particular reason why? Even if you are someone who views the used games market as bad for the industry, why should people lose their right to trade games with friends, or rent games, or even sell their games at a garage sale ten years from now?