CD Projekt Red Drops Controversial Piracy Initiative

@SeriouslyNow said:

@SomeDeliCook said:

I thought they were "100%" sure they knew who the pirates were? Now they drop it?

Something can be annoying and needlessly aggressive even when it's 100% correct.

I believe SomeDeliCook's point is that if they're making sure to include clauses about CD-Key verifications in their letters, then they're safeguarding themselves from false positives and wrongful suits......when they claim to be 100% certain of their accusations. This is obviously dishonest seeing as they already admitted to cases of incorrectly identifying people as pirates, and there's no way (that any public agency is currently aware of) to 100% prove beyond a shadow of a doubt who downloaded what. So unless they divulge their methods to the press, they're essentially just blowing smoke while potentially harming customers as well as individuals who don't even know what a Geralt is.

@YukoAsho said:

Suing the pirates affects no legitimate users, and they shouldn't be crucified for protecting their games.

Have you never heard of false accusations? Yes, this practice absolutely CAN harm innocent people, and it often does in other cases like with the RIAA. I support their right to protect their intellectual property, however I do not condone the method they chose to do so.

I thought they were "100%" sure they knew who the pirates were? Now they drop it?

@spaghettitime said:

CD Projekt Red took a fairly thuggish approach with their stated policy and now they've redacted it. So this is good news. I condemned them when they announced this and now I'm commending them for abandoning it. There's no need to call for their head on a pike or start degrading people in this thread or play fanboys and argue which console demographic is somehow at fault here; the bottom line is they seemed to have learned from their mistake.

So what should CDP do? Just bend over, give the pirates free reign? Maybe just give up and join the DRM Jamboree? Suing the pirates affects no legitimate users, and they shouldn't be crucified for protecting their games.

@YukoAsho said:

Sooooo, basically developers can't do ANYTHING about piracy without pissing people off?

And then we wonder why SOPA exists?

SOPA and PIPA exist because groups like the MPAA and RIAA have hyper good lobbying connections and are able to throw their leverage around in order to grab more power which translates into coercing more citizens out of their cash. Don't attempt to pin the blame for such horrible legislature on video game consumers, that's pretty dumb.

CD Projekt Red took a fairly thuggish approach with their stated policy and now they've redacted it. So this is good news. I condemned them when they announced this and now I'm commending them for abandoning it. There's no need to call for their head on a pike or start degrading people in this thread or play fanboys and argue which console demographic is somehow at fault here; the bottom line is they seemed to have learned from their mistake.

@LordCmdrStryker said:

I paid for it new on GOG. Don't know what else they want us to do.

I'm confused by your comment. Why do you assume they want you do to something more?

Sooooo, basically developers can't do ANYTHING about piracy without pissing people off?

And then we wonder why SOPA exists?

@YapaPanda said:

@Tuffgong: You make good points but personally as a consumer I dislike all the things you mentioned (with the exception of achievements).

For #1, as someone buying a game I don't want content that I'm locked out of. I want achievements but only if every platform gets the same.

#2. I would want to be able to buy any game I want on any platform. Eg I hate that I can't play Dark Souls on my PC, why can't I if I'm willing to pay?

and #3, I don't think these ever work. I think convenience will always prevail over threats. Make it easier and better for people to buy a legit copy and I think more people will. Its a question of utility gained versus dollars spent. Say you spend $60 for a legit copy of a game and then have to jump through hoops because of DRM, game breaking bugs, and any other number of annoyances then you are going to find that for a lot people there is not enough value there. All entertainment consumption is like this. Steam and Netflix are awesome because they are literally easier than pirating.

That was exactly my point. If you buy the game you get everything. It's only if you pirate it that there's a tweak to the content that makes the game less playable in some way but not locking someone out of it. The question of buying games on a platform is not something you have any direct control over anyway. The only control you have as a consumer is an indirect control in making it known with your money which products on which platforms you prefer.

The point with the top down threats is that's the last of the three strategies. I mentioned that stuff like Steam, price reductions/sales, and convenience are the first strategy, then making some content lockout for people who pirate, and finally plugging up any holes with at least letting the pirate know through an email or something similar that the devs are aware. Maybe they don't do anything but they at least know and are continuing to track their behavior. Finally DRM while annoying to the consumer is something only the publishers truly know the effectiveness of. They're the ones who do the market research and know the real results. it wouldn't continue to happen if someone at least didn't interpret the numbers meaning its somewhat worth it. After all some devs have gone back and forth on using DRM which I imagine has to yield interesting results for why they continue to use DRM.

I can only laugh at all the anti-piracy talk here. You've all been brainwashed so easily. Can any of you cite one legitimate, independent study that has found piracy negatively affects sales in any entertainment industry? On the contrary, I can find a few studies covered in ArsTechnica that do the exact opposite: they found negligible to slightly positive effects, and articles pointing out the complete fabrication that are the entertainment industry's piracy stats.

The people screaming bloody murder over the "theft" of copyright infringement of these games are being ridiculous. If piracy keeps a suburban kid engaged with a series or the game industry in general, until he gets a job out of college, starts earning money and buys his own games, do you tally that as "piracy increased sales?" Or what about a poor inner city kid who is torrenting video games that let him escape his dreary life, avoiding the more chaotic lifestyles many inner city kids experience these days? Would you prefer he go out and join a gang or take drugs "for kicks", just so he can't "steal" your product?

Jesus. Get over yourselves. If you want to decrease piracy, then advocate for higher taxes on the rich and higher salaries for the poor and middle class. Then everyone will have more money to spend on entertainment.

"Though we are staunch opponents of DRM because we don't believe it has any effect on reducing piracy"

This 100%. The people who rip DRM out of games will always find a way, maybe it'll only take them a few more days but they will do it. DRM only hurts those who actually pay for the games.

All companies need to realize this. I mean look at cars. Car alarms don't stop car thieves do they? No. Theft is and will always be there, just deal with it.

To be completely honest, I support them wholeheartedly chasing after pirates for stealing there stuff that they sweated heavily over.

I mean if you build a house you'd be pretty pissed if somebody started living in it before you'd even had a chance to put your stuff in it.

I boutght one copy of Witcher 2 from Gog.com and another from Steam, granted it was on sale but it still stands to show my support. I want more of their great products in the future and I want them to see this fact.

@Phished0ne said:

Games are not music. I have no problem with certain developers sending out letters threatening legal action to people suspected of pirating games. Especially if they make it as easy to clear up as just sending a valid CD Key. Music is a whole different beast though, and we wont get into that.

So I think fundamentally the reason CDP is getting crap for this and not other devs is that CDP was operating under the guise that they were a customer-centric company that understood the reality of how the internet worked. They treated customers well, and didn't penalize paying customers with DRM.

Sure, a company can make threats of legal action due to download a game via torrent. With most other companies, this would be expected. However with CDP this wasn't in the spirit of their prior public statements. Without DRM, it might just be easier and faster to grab a torrent of a game than from the site you bought it from.

I'm sure it's an edge case that they targeted some innocent people accidentally. Sure, they gave an easy way to clear it up. But to me this erases the benefit of the doubt customers give them due to their anti-DRM policies. They're still willing to inconvenience people (even if it's only a few) to grandstand about piracy without doing something that is a real deterrent (music industry lawsuits don't seem to be enough of a deterrent for that industry for example).

I do certainly respect that they respect their customers' opinions and have backed off this tactic. I'm not in the camp of saying I'd never trust the company again. They just need to earn back that good will they had from releasing their biggest title without DRM.

I was slightly mad when they were starting to send bills to people, on a vague notion, that they may have, or may not have downloaded their game illegally, but good to see they saw it otherwise.

I will keep buying their games on release :)

@kalmis: Looks like you can't change the company's name ;/

@marty_k said:

Patrick: CD Projekt RED Sp. z o.o. means CD Projekt LTD (Sp. z o.o. -> LTD) which isn't true anymore because they're now a public company -> CD Projekt RED S.A. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=CDR:PW).

You should change the wiki page then because that's where it comes from.

"Though we are staunch opponents of DRM because we don't believe it has any effect on reducing piracy"

A truer statement has never been made. I can't believe publishers don't fucking realize this. Stop wasting all that money on intrusive DRM that makes legit copies more of a hassle than pirated ones. Like jesus fucking christ it's crazy how you can spend so much money on making your product worse for your consumer.

No game has ever remained uncracked for any significant time, no game ever will. You're up against the fucking internet here, devs, and the internet always wins in these matters. Just give it up and give your legit consumers a better experience.

@Krakn3Dfx said:

@KaneRobot said:

@Krakn3Dfx said:

@HarrySound said:

Come over to the consoles, we shall buy your games, it'll be better for all of us.

PC gamers are all freeloaders........10 years ago, I was one so I know.

For that I appologise but i've bought 100s and 100s of xbox and 360 games in that time.Please find my sins repent.

My 450+ game Steam account gives you the big middle finger.

Also, the original Witcher sold well over a million copies on the PC. If you build a good PC game, it will sell big numbers. Piracy is an issue everywhere, there's a reason why Sony is constantly releasing firmware updates for the PS3, Microsoft changed the entire way a disc is pressed for the 360, and Nintendo Wii games don't sell for crap. Piracy is a problem on all platforms.

You say that like all things are equal. It's a far, FAR larger problem on the PC. The guy you're responding to is correct despite your "450 Steam games" and your middle finger. Come to the consoles - it's better for all of us.

The average suburban kiddie looking to steal games will take one look at the process required to play pirated games on the 360 (especially now) and say forget it. With the PC you download a game, generate a key and/or apply a modification to the game, and you're done.

I would counter that if a developer/publisher isn't making enough money on the PC to warrant a PC version of their games, then they should definitely move over to consoles, or, you know, make better games. Putting all PC gamers in the same category as the "average suburban kiddie" is definitely a mistake, given that PC game sales have risen around $5 billion in the last 2-3 years while console sales have flatlined in a lot of cases.

As a PC and console gamer, I encourage you to continue to solely enjoy the platform where publishers will randomly pull server support on games just to sell you a newer version of that game and you get to enjoy hardware that's already obsolete by PC standards when the first console rolls off of the assembly line. I will in the meantime enjoy graphically and performance superior versions of most games on the PC, where I will pay for them until publishers stop taking my money for the PC versions of their games.

Don't worry man, we're getting to that point in the cycle again where PC hardware is giving PC gamers a much better experience than console gamers. Take solace in the fact that "our" games will be better than the average Joes console games for at least another 2 years.

Also, we won't get locked out of Steam for upwards of 3 months because our accounts got 'compromised'. Something that has happened to two major console systems.

I think more and more savy gamers will switch over to HTPCs at least until the next generation of consoles launch.

@HarrySound said:

Come over to the consoles, we shall buy your games, it'll be better for all of us.

PC gamers are all freeloaders........10 years ago, I was one so I know.

For that I appologise but i've bought 100s and 100s of xbox and 360 games in that time.Please find my sins repent.

I used to pirate games too... mostly because I could download them and I didn't have to go to shitty, shitty gamestop. Since steam got big though? I haven't pirated a game since it's inception. I don't understand why others still do either, most DRM makes it a royal pain in the ass, and then you don't get an awesome front-end like steam to launch it.

I think digital distribution has done more to fight piracy than DRM ever has or will.

I think the problem with this approach is you can inadvertently target innocents.

I've downloaded games illegally despite legally owning them. Either because: A) to remove DRM or B) to avoid having to install them from disc; this is only really a case with older games though since most games are tied to a digital distribution platform these days. I have at times downloaded a game to see how it runs too, I think I did that with The Witcher 2 which I then went on to buy.

I'd rather just pirate a game I already own than dig out 3-4 discs, that is just annoying.

Patrick: CD Projekt RED Sp. z o.o. means CD Projekt LTD (Sp. z o.o. -> LTD) which isn't true anymore because they're now a public company -> CD Projekt RED S.A. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=CDR:PW).

@plaintomato said:

They should've kept it up. The only people that bitch about it are...pirates. *shocker*. They deserve to get sued. I'd rather they sue pirates than load games up with intrusive DRM.

@Tuffgong: You make good points but personally as a consumer I dislike all the things you mentioned (with the exception of achievements).

For #1, as someone buying a game I don't want content that I'm locked out of. I want achievements but only if every platform gets the same.

#2. I would want to be able to buy any game I want on any platform. Eg I hate that I can't play Dark Souls on my PC, why can't I if I'm willing to pay?

and #3, I don't think these ever work. I think convenience will always prevail over threats. Make it easier and better for people to buy a legit copy and I think more people will. Its a question of utility gained versus dollars spent. Say you spend $60 for a legit copy of a game and then have to jump through hoops because of DRM, game breaking bugs, and any other number of annoyances then you are going to find that for a lot people there is not enough value there. All entertainment consumption is like this. Steam and Netflix are awesome because they are literally easier than pirating.

While piracy sucks and all that, stronger copyright laws wouldn't necessarily be a good thing to People Who Like To Use The Internet. I'm glad CDP at least realized that such a tactic only creates bad blood with the consumer and catches few people.

p.s. Fuck you Ubisoft, stop making games i want to play.

Why doesn't the game do a content legitimacy check and when it fails, unlock something that makes the game really irritating to play but ultimately playable. I love what Croteam did by putting this invulnerable scorpion thing that was super fast and would just follow the player and keep trying to kill them.

The ideal strategy against piracy is ultimately a combination and threefold: 1) Provide plenty of incentives for people to buy the legit version, like achievements, selling it exclusively through services like Origin or Steam, or selling it at progressively cheaper prices, possibly at whatever price they want 2) Account for the potential loss due to piracy from the very beginning setting expectations to a realistic point 3) Push from the top down on confirmed pirates with threats or even the notice of awareness.

Together putting the squash on the few pirates that do cause a lot of damage, providing economic incentives to buy the legit version, and planning the development around potential piracy from the very beginning can go a long way. DRM may or may not be the answer, the PR backlash is the only potential loss to a company. If people bitch on the internet, it doesn't matter unless that itself starts to hurt their sales. If they see it does not, people like Ubisoft could give less of a shit.

Keep in mind that this is a Polish game that had a rather large international release. A majority of the pirating problems are a result of countries and markets pirating them for their domestic markets because game prices there are really expensive compared to the US. If it was only younger people without money but a lot of time and rebellion then it would much easier to localize and deal with. They've tried to address that too with bad results (you wouldn't download a car would you?). But still it's a huge problem with a lot of aspects that honestly don't have very many solutions except hoping your game is a success or diversifying your game with console versions and other strategies. But anyone who thinks a company (developer or publisher) with vested interest in a game's success should just ignore the issue entirely to make the bitchy internet crowd happy is fucking stupid.

Still a great developer.

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@mak_wikus said:

@Grimluck343 said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Grimluck343 said:

@HarrySound said:

Come over to the consoles, we shall buy your games, it'll be better for all of us.

PC gamers are all freeloaders........10 years ago, I was one so I know.

For that I appologise but i've bought 100s and 100s of xbox and 360 games in that time.Please find my sins repent.

Decent gaming rig: $1500.

Steam Library: $500 and rising.

Being called a freeloader by a console kiddie: Priceless.

But how many of those games did you pay full price for?

Most of them. What does that have to do with anything?

Because by buying games on sale, you're a thief!!

I have no idea what he meant...

So youve brought about 10 games during the life of your pc? whats in your computer if you spent 1500?

Bastion, Arkham City, Bioshock, Bioshock 2, Brink, Modern Warfare 2, Modern Warfare 3, Dead Space, Dead Space 2, Skyrim, Grid, Half-Life, Half-Life 2, Half-Life 2 Episode 1, Half-Life 2 Episode 2, Left 4 Dead 2, Portal, Portal 2, Red Faction, Red Faction 2, Red Faction: Guerilla, Saints Row The Third, Super Meat Boy, Team Fortress 2 (prior to F2P), Terraria, Universe Sandbox (not really a game but whatever), Unreal Tournament 3, and The Witcher, all paid at full price. Want me to list all of the MMOs I'm still paying subscriptions for? Hell I've given Blizzard over $1000 alone the past seven years.

$500 was a made up number to illustrate a point, as was the $1500.

Well, I'm just glad at this point that they dropped the DRM . . . now I just have to get a new PC that doesn't slosh out dropped frames from the installed game . . again. A worthy game should be well supported by its community of gamers . . . community. You can spit out polish but if you don't have a two way respect, you can't expect much . . . except maybe polished animosity. I hope that the industry works out something fair and balanced that still blocks out the pirates without declaring everybody guilty until proven innocent.

They should've kept it up. The only people that bitch about it are...pirates. *shocker*. They deserve to get sued. I'd rather they sue pirates than load games up with intrusive DRM.

@mak_wikus said:

@Grimluck343 said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Grimluck343 said:

@HarrySound said:

Come over to the consoles, we shall buy your games, it'll be better for all of us.

PC gamers are all freeloaders........10 years ago, I was one so I know.

For that I appologise but i've bought 100s and 100s of xbox and 360 games in that time.Please find my sins repent.

Decent gaming rig: $1500.

Steam Library: $500 and rising.

Being called a freeloader by a console kiddie: Priceless.

But how many of those games did you pay full price for?

Most of them. What does that have to do with anything?

Because by buying games on sale, you're a thief!!

I have no idea what he meant...

So youve brought about 10 games during the life of your pc? whats in your computer if you spent 1500?

@Grimluck343 said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Grimluck343 said:

@HarrySound said:

Come over to the consoles, we shall buy your games, it'll be better for all of us.

PC gamers are all freeloaders........10 years ago, I was one so I know.

For that I appologise but i've bought 100s and 100s of xbox and 360 games in that time.Please find my sins repent.

Decent gaming rig: $1500.

Steam Library: $500 and rising.

Being called a freeloader by a console kiddie: Priceless.

But how many of those games did you pay full price for?

Most of them. What does that have to do with anything?

Because by buying games on sale, you're a thief!!

I have no idea what he meant...

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Grimluck343 said:

@HarrySound said:

Come over to the consoles, we shall buy your games, it'll be better for all of us.

PC gamers are all freeloaders........10 years ago, I was one so I know.

For that I appologise but i've bought 100s and 100s of xbox and 360 games in that time.Please find my sins repent.

Decent gaming rig: $1500.

Steam Library: $500 and rising.

Being called a freeloader by a console kiddie: Priceless.

But how many of those games did you pay full price for?

Most of them. What does that have to do with anything?

Fuck Pirates!

I adore CD Projeckt RED as a company. And I also really enjoy Witcher 2. Because of my love for them, I bought it twice (and still haven't even finished it, sighhh).

@Bourbon_Warrior: As long as he didn't pirate them, what does it matter?

That aside...

I am very much against DRM, but I do think companies should be allowed to pursue pirates if they have reason to believe they have found one. Perhaps they should not open so strongly though, send a letter explaining their reasons for suspecting piracy and ask the person to verify his copy in some way. If the person does not comply, then by all means, bring out the lawyers.

@Grimluck343 said:

@HarrySound said:

Come over to the consoles, we shall buy your games, it'll be better for all of us.

PC gamers are all freeloaders........10 years ago, I was one so I know.

For that I appologise but i've bought 100s and 100s of xbox and 360 games in that time.Please find my sins repent.

Decent gaming rig: $1500.

Steam Library: $500 and rising.

Being called a freeloader by a console kiddie: Priceless.

But how many of those games did you pay full price for?

@HarrySound said:

Come over to the consoles, we shall buy your games, it'll be better for all of us.

PC gamers are all freeloaders........10 years ago, I was one so I know.

For that I appologise but i've bought 100s and 100s of xbox and 360 games in that time.Please find my sins repent.

Decent gaming rig: $1500.

Steam Library: $500 and rising.

Being called a freeloader by a console kiddie: Priceless.

I hate piracy. I have no sympathy for anyone who "can't afford" the latest and greatest video games. Your grandma had to play with a hoop and a stick for fun. Deal with it.

In fairness, I have pirated stuff in the past. But I refuse to now, because I eventually became a (mostly) responsible adult.

I bet all these piracy happens in third world countries...

@Cretaceous_Bob:

piracy is NOT theft, it is copyright infringement.

theft would be if you broke in to a warehouse and stole copies of the game representing physical value.

if you pirate the game CD projekt RED don't loose a copy of the game, it is illegally copied and distributed, but they don't loose something of physical value.

And that they abandoned this move is a good thing, they should instead spend their energy on improve the service for their legitimate costumers, that could lure pirates to buy a copy of the game.

The team that solves the puzzle of stopping pirates while not hurting consumers will come exactly a day after piracy is no longer an issue (because we are all erogenous clouds).

I feel for yah, CD Projekt. I bought collector's edition of Witcher 2 and I bought two copies of the original Witcher.

Games are not music. I have no problem with certain developers sending out letters threatening legal action to people suspected of pirating games. Especially if they make it as easy to clear up as just sending a valid CD Key. Music is a whole different beast though, and we wont get into that.

@Shuborno said:

@George_Hukas said:

Poor guys just trying to protect their intellectual property. Talk about an uphill battle.

@Shuborno said:

This means they did have false positives which means they were targeting innocent people along with pirates. The point of dropping DRM is not penalizing their customers for the actions of pirates

Technically, when you're downloading a game you already own from a "shady source", those cracked and modified .exe and .dll files still violate the EULA.

Presumably the end result a dev is looking for is making money from their game.

A customer who pays for the game and grabs it from a torrent later for whatever reason has made the company money from the game. As long as they're not wasting the company's resources with support calls for cracked/modified game files, what difference does it make to the company?

When you torrent a game, not only do you download, but you upload. So even if you did pay for the game, and downloaded it through a torrent, you are still uploading and sharing the game with other people who probably didnt pay for it. You are a supporting a community that engages in an illegal activity, even if you arent. Especially if you keep the files on your computer and continue to upload them to other people.

@AhmadMetallic said:

Where is all of this happening exactly? I own both Witcher games and love them immensely, could someone direct me to where the community raged and where the company made that announcement? The official forums or what?

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/01/12/splendid-cd-projekt-to-stop-legal-threats/

Where is all of this happening exactly? 
 
I own both Witcher games and love them immensely, could someone direct me to where the community raged and where the company made that announcement? The official forums or what?

@AiurFlux said:

Piracy will never go away. To counter it it's up to companies to make better games for the PC that aren't bug filled unoptimized messes (unlike RAGE and Arkham City), and to have faith in their customer (unlike Ubi$oft). The people that play games on PC are not cheap, contrary to popular belief. When I spend 1600 dollars on parts I am far from cheap. When I drop well over 300 dollars on the Christmas Steam Sale I am far from cheap. But there will always be that 2 or so percent that feel entitled to everything and feel inclined to steal shit.

I would say that the vast majority of "pirates" are teenagers or college students that can't afford to buy games, not the "2 percent" that you described. When people get older and start to earn stable incomes, they are probably much less likely to pirate games.

@KaneRobot said:

@Krakn3Dfx said:

@HarrySound said:

Come over to the consoles, we shall buy your games, it'll be better for all of us.

PC gamers are all freeloaders........10 years ago, I was one so I know.

For that I appologise but i've bought 100s and 100s of xbox and 360 games in that time.Please find my sins repent.

My 450+ game Steam account gives you the big middle finger.

Also, the original Witcher sold well over a million copies on the PC. If you build a good PC game, it will sell big numbers. Piracy is an issue everywhere, there's a reason why Sony is constantly releasing firmware updates for the PS3, Microsoft changed the entire way a disc is pressed for the 360, and Nintendo Wii games don't sell for crap. Piracy is a problem on all platforms.

You say that like all things are equal. It's a far, FAR larger problem on the PC. The guy you're responding to is correct despite your "450 Steam games" and your middle finger. Come to the consoles - it's better for all of us.

The average suburban kiddie looking to steal games will take one look at the process required to play pirated games on the 360 (especially now) and say forget it. With the PC you download a game, generate a key and/or apply a modification to the game, and you're done.

I would counter that if a developer/publisher isn't making enough money on the PC to warrant a PC version of their games, then they should definitely move over to consoles, or, you know, make better games. Putting all PC gamers in the same category as the "average suburban kiddie" is definitely a mistake, given that PC game sales have risen around $5 billion in the last 2-3 years while console sales have flatlined in a lot of cases.

As a PC and console gamer, I encourage you to continue to solely enjoy the platform where publishers will randomly pull server support on games just to sell you a newer version of that game and you get to enjoy hardware that's already obsolete by PC standards when the first console rolls off of the assembly line. I will in the meantime enjoy graphically and performance superior versions of most games on the PC, where I will pay for them until publishers stop taking my money for the PC versions of their games.

@Cretaceous_Bob said:

@Shuborno said:

@Cretaceous_Bob said:

I don't really understand why people see this as a good thing. They were going after thieves. I have no pity for thieves.

DRM = punishing innocent parties for the actions of guilty parties

Threats of Litigation = punishing innocent parties for the actions of guilty parties

There was an interview with CDP at some point where they defended the letters because if you were threatened with a letter but had a CD key or something like that and provided it to them they would drop the legal action. This means they did have false positives which means they were targeting innocent people along with pirates. The point of dropping DRM is not penalizing their customers for the actions of pirates but they apparently forgot when they started down this legal route.

Sounds awfully reasonable to me.

Do you take kindly to being threatened?

If I was threatened with being sued for something I didn't do, I wouldn't be so happy about it. I would think the person threatening me was be a dick. Apparently you would sympathize with them.

Piracy will never go away. To counter it it's up to companies to make better games for the PC that aren't bug filled unoptimized messes (unlike RAGE and Arkham City), and to have faith in their customer (unlike Ubi$oft). The people that play games on PC are not cheap, contrary to popular belief. When I spend 1600 dollars on parts I am far from cheap. When I drop well over 300 dollars on the Christmas Steam Sale I am far from cheap. But there will always be that 2 or so percent that feel entitled to everything and feel inclined to steal shit.

Empty threats of litigation aren't going to stop people. Intrusive DRM will steer people away since they can pirate the games DRM free. I don't know how they can counter it, but making a better product is clearly the first step. And until they do make a better product I cannot, in good conscience, bash anyone for piracy. I don't endorse or condone it, but I can kind of see the point if I'm being completely honest.

The Witcher 2 sold reasonably well, Skyrim sold well, Valve games sell well. Why? Because of the QUALITY. Yeah Skyrim is a fucking mess at times, but people also know that mods will come out for it and fix most of the issues better than Bethesda could ever hope to do. A proper product and proper support is the best solution to a problem that will never go away. Period.

@HarrySound: Rarely does one run across such stupidity in real life. Thank you internet, once again, for another unbelievable comment.

@Krakn3Dfx said:

@HarrySound said:

Come over to the consoles, we shall buy your games, it'll be better for all of us.

PC gamers are all freeloaders........10 years ago, I was one so I know.

For that I appologise but i've bought 100s and 100s of xbox and 360 games in that time.Please find my sins repent.

My 450+ game Steam account gives you the big middle finger.

Also, the original Witcher sold well over a million copies on the PC. If you build a good PC game, it will sell big numbers. Piracy is an issue everywhere, there's a reason why Sony is constantly releasing firmware updates for the PS3, Microsoft changed the entire way a disc is pressed for the 360, and Nintendo Wii games don't sell for crap. Piracy is a problem on all platforms.

You say that like all things are equal. It's a far, FAR larger problem on the PC. The guy you're responding to is correct despite your "450 Steam games" and your middle finger. Come to the consoles - it's better for all of us.

The average suburban kiddie looking to steal games will take one look at the process required to play pirated games on the 360 (especially now) and say forget it. With the PC you download a game, generate a key and/or apply a modification to the game, and you're done.

Piracy is morally and ethically wrong, but I always have at least two major problems with DRM/severe crackdown by companies (other than targeting pirate sites, ROM sites, etc.)

1. Pirating a copy isn't the same thing as theft, which takes the copy away from somebody else (morally the same thing, literally not at all the same thing)
2. The majority of people who are pirating copies of games would likely not buy the game in the first place, hence the pirating (therefore arguments of lost money are moot and misleading)
3. Buying a used game also doesn't give the original company even a cent for their hard work and money. Is that technically pirating in a sense even though nothing was illegitimate? (I guess that explains the online passes, Catwoman codes, etc. but again it targets the wrong people).

The solution? Make it harder to pirate I guess so that people more willing to pay for content who might be swayed into taking the easy (illegal) route, or do things like Humble Bundle and Steam do where you can pay super small amounts for lots of games so at least they get SOMETHING, and if you want to support the company more you can pay more. It's tricky business for sure, but I find it hard to believe that these kinds of measures actually reduce piracy by any meaningful amount.