Gaming's Women Raise Sexism Awareness With #1reasonwhy Movement on Twitter

@Trainer_Red said:

@kalparun said:

Thing is, you can't really oppose feminism in video games without feminists automaticaly labeling you as a sexist chauvinist so I'll let a woman handle this issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZueOCLGt1tw#!

Wow. Awesome video.

that was an interesting take. thanks for sharing that. and she isn't wrong- i doubt most games are designed from the perspective of a 'misogynistic agenda.' but you can't look at a game like duke nukem (whatever permutation you choose) and not notice it's treatment of women. yes, it's probably 'all in good fun,' but that doesn't change it's treatment. also, when she says (direct quote from 4:50) "videogames are meant to be fun, and for recreation and relaxation. they are not supposed to be a social message on the real problematic views in society." that's a judgement call- what they are 'supposed' to be is all well and good (and open to interpretation), but to deny that there's any sort of social undercurrent or implicit messages in media is to claim they exist in a vacuum, devoid of any authorship or humanity. which in my opinion, is bulllshit. but that's another argument entirely.

regardless- her arguments are somewhat tangential to the discussion here. she's speaking specifically to misogynistic design- that's it's own argument. this article is speaking to women and their personal experiences with the gaming community- which are personal by their very nature, therefore very difficult to dismiss. you can take issue if someone personally claims you're a misogynist- but to claim others are somehow discredited by venting about personal experiences- that's pretty absurd and/or unreasonable.

I find it sad that everytime someone, usually a female, bring up sexism there is always tons of men saying there is no sexism, they just need to adapt. I think that says a lot about the whole issue.

@Kierkegaard said:

@Archaen said:

@Kierkegaard said:

@Terramagi said:

I guess it really comes down to this: if women are treated differently from men, you're sexist. If they're treated the same as men, you're a misogynist.

What are you talking about? If someone is treated as less of a person because she is a woman, she is experiencing sexism, as the women in the twitter hashtag are exemplifying. That's it. That's the only if, then statement here.

What he's referring to is the phenomenon of many feminist women saying they want to be treated as equal but then also wanting men to open doors for her and pay for dinner and drinks. It's incredibly common. Treating a woman as an actual equal isn't really considered enough with many feminists. You need to treat them as equals in some situations and as delicate, wonderful flowers in other situations. The end result is that the woman wants to be treated overall better than a man would be.

That's a trumped up, unreal phenomenon. Feminists, with whom I try to include myself but feel that I have much to learn, present themselves and their beliefs far better than you appear to. Doesn't make anyone above criticism. Does mean that criticism should come from a real place, not a fabricated fear.

It is neither trumped up nor unreal. It is a daily occurrence for many men to meet or deal with women who think that way. Just because your feminist friends and writers you've read don't think that way doesn't mean many, many women do.

@kalparun said:

I didn't start crying about it on the internet because that's how human beings work. They form groups and question outsiders who are different and do not share the same characteristics...

That. Pretty damn standard human nature stuff but people act like it's some kind of newly developed atrocity or something.

Also, may I say that most of the "sexism" in the quotes stems not from some hate against women but from the simple fact that the massive increase of female video game players is quite recent.

You can't imagine the sarcastic/teasing comments I earned when I started dancing 5 years ago.

I was a bearded football player and, being the only tree trunk (that's how flexible I was) in a group of 20 excellent, female dancers, was quite awkward at first.

I didn't start crying about it on the internet because that's how human beings work. They form groups and question outsiders who are different and do not share the same characteristis which is, if you ask me, quite natural and healthy.

Both women and men will have to compromise stuff when that happens.

Feminists like Anita Sarkeesian (sp?) besically want to kickforce the aforementioned process of acceptance and this only serves to increase the gap and hostility against prettty much everyone.

Now, when it comes to actual discrimination against someone's rights, be they man or woman, I'm all out against it.

@Draxyle said:

What's even worse is the people completely dismissive of the problem; many completely missing the point.

It is a problem with culture, and everyone has a part in it. Standing back and doing nothing or denying that there is an issue at all is exactly why it's still prolific today.

I don't understand your point. There are literally dozens even hundreds even thousands of problems and issues that people think about and deal with every single day. Just because this one problem isn't as important to them as something else doesn't make them bad.

For example this issue to me isn't high on my priority list of issues that I deal with or do something about simply because of the priorities in my life. If you think that makes me a horrible person than OK, but I would encourage you to think about the issues and problems in the world that you personally don't spend time considering or thinking about and maybe you'll realize that you aren't really any different than the people that "dismiss" this one particular issue.

@Marokai said:

I'm just as sick of the sexist nature of the video game industry, and any group mostly dominated by men

I agree with the rest of your post but here it seems like you imply that only men are sexist.

Also, how is the video game industry sexist?

I do agree that there are occasions where sexism takes place, with men or women as victims. However, the portrayal of specific characters in stereotypical or exaggerated, unrealistic ways is not fueled by sexism and it is unfair to label the whole industry as such.

Both male and female characters are "victims" of such portrayals. Am I to believe that a sexist group people conspire to opress men when the majority of male video game protagonists are muscular, sweaty, dirty, one-line thrower, murderer meatheads?

I think people are seriously grasping at straws.

@ManMadeGod said:

@Indarys said:

The solution, thus, is to stop making products that appeal to only one gender. If all games appealed equally to both genders, both genders would likely be interested in being in the industry. The a whole new set of issues crops up, of course, in turning a homogenous industry into a diverse one. That's a whole different ball of wax, of course, but we aren't even at that bridge yet. You'd think that games like The Sims or World of Warcraft that do a good job of appealing to both genders would be what the industry -wants- to go for, since you're basically doubling your market, but as it stands, we still have the industry dominated by shootan games and D&D nerd battle babes. Instead of blaming men as a whole for something that's a product of their environment, the focus should be on changing the environment. Telling someone "If you like scantily clad women you're part of the problem" is going to hurt more than help--men like scantily clad women because they've been indoctrinated from birth to do so. They're as much victims of their environment as women who feel the need to diet and preen like supermodels. Fix the environment, you fix the problem. Get angry at people, and you are not only victim blaming, but making the problem worse.

Why would you want all games to be gender neutral? No other industry does this. Shampoo, novels, film, watches, plastic covers for your cell phone. Women and men are different. It's fine to have games target different audiences.

I have no problem with more diversity (games need it). But the idea that a game such as Dead or Alive is inherently bad because it targets a male audience confuses me.

This is a great point, and I completely agree.

@kalparun said:

Thing is, you can't really oppose feminism in video games without feminists automaticaly labeling you as a sexist chauvinist so I'll let a woman handle this issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZueOCLGt1tw#!

Wow. Awesome video.

@dr_mantas said:

I think men understand these problems, but at least for me, all I can say is:

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

You are too awesome for this place.

If you don't care about the topic, why post? And how in God's name does the inequity in gaming culture translate to you feeling that the guilt is being heaped on you b/c you're a guy? I haven't read thru all these posts, but some of the shit being posted in here is ridiculous.

I'm just as sick of the sexist nature of the video game industry, and any group mostly dominated by men, as anyone else. But this article doesn't accomplish a damn thing, and barely even qualifies as an 'article' to begin with. It's just a group of tweets and Patrick putting another pandering pip in his progressive collar.  
 
You want to combat sexism? Great! Do it with your own behavior in actual real life situations. Do it when you're on camera. Stand up to people when you think they're being sexist. Put together a serious news feature about sexism that doesn't consist of hashtags. I appreciate what you're trying to do here, Patrick, but you haven't done a goddamn thing to seriously combat sexism aside from halfhearted articles like this and the occasional tweet to make yourself feel better.  
 
It's a classic show, don't tell, problem. People might take the sexism stuff seriously if, instead of being demagogic about it, you were doing something about it.

@Onkel_Apan said:

http://www.fmvmagazine.com/?p=13391

“At the end of the day I am the work I produce, not a pair of boobs,” she said. “It’s individuals who may or may not be sexist, and those are folks who reside in the broader ‘asshole’ category that applies to all things, not just games.

end of discussion, some people are assholes, most are not. Patrick jumped the gun on this.

That's an interesting take on things, and I agree with her. I think the focus on the games industry is wrong, I have a hard time believing sexism is worse there than in any other field of engineering or other male dominated field of work. That doesn't mean the problem isn't real though, and needs to be discussed. This is a form of sexism I really dispise.

It's when people start complaining about booth babes and having attractive female characters in games, that's when I lose interest. Oh. And when someone brings up "rapeculture".

@MarkJW said:

@SmashingTimes: @SmashingTimes said:

@MarkJW said:

@poperamone said:

I've worked in games for a few years and had struggled to see what all the fuss was about, until I attended gamescom this year. I was utterly shocked and a little disgusted at at how some of my colleagues where treated. Not by spotty kids on the show floor but by supposed adults and professionals at the end of show party. Yes there where way more men than women there but it was no excuse for some of the teenage nonsense that was on display. One guy even grabbed a girls hand and 'jokingly' tried to shove it down his trousers, she hadn't even met him.

We are fortunate to work in or follow a creative industry that has been solely the product of innovations of the past 50 years. Its time to start showing it in our approaches to the production of , the way we conduct business in and the way we talk about the art form.

Dude, Gamescom is a shitstorm waiting to happen. I go every couple years (2008 and then this year in 2012, probably won't go again until 2014 or so) and nothing changes other than the location (Cologne is definitely a better location than Leipzig). It's only a trade show for the first two days or so, and even then the admission rules are loose as hell (E3 runs a tight ship compared to Gamescom). Once the doors open to the general public, GC goes straight to hell. People running through the hallways every morning when the doors open just to do some shitty-ass swag, people going nuts for Razer's booth babes.

Oh god, the Razer booth. Just thinking about it dude, I felt uncomfortable standing there with my few German/Austrian buddies. Imagine that, an American on vacation feeling awkward at a sleezy swag-tossing tight t-shirt competition. Impossible, right? Not at Gamescom.

PAX is positively tame compared to GC. I fucking love PAX. I'll go every year even if I'm broke and homeless. Especially if I'm broke and homeless.

Still puritans after all these years.

You're probably right. I'm probably too sensitive. I'd rather be ogling an unreleased game than a lady after travelling somewhere around 4500 miles. Weird, huh? Fuck me.

As strange as it may sound is that chaos of the show floor is more excusable in some way to me. Alot of the people on the public days are kids or young adults so perhaps don't have the social skills to know how to behave in those situations as well. The point was I was at an after hours event, with apparently industry professionals. The socially retarded kids running around the show floor need to look to the people working with, creating and writing about their hobby and see that that behavior is not acceptable.

Oh god The razer booth was jaw dropping, I didn't understand it one bit. I remember laughing at how ridiculous is was. I've not been fortunate enough to get to pax yet but what I have seen in the press and anecdotally events like pax, euro gamer and rezzed are the future. That's what I want to be a part of!

Most of the comments Patrick posted would apply to the workplace in general, and at the very least aren't exclusive at all to the video game world. I'm sure there are some distinct problems with being a female game designer, but there are with lots of other jobs too. I'm sympathetic to anyone who's being treated unfairly, and there's no doubt that video games generally treat women like pieces of jiggly meat, and that attitude probably spills over into the development world a bit, but the same could be said for working in advertising or sales. Long story short, I'm sure there are some problems, but Patrick seems to spend so much energy dwelling on this, you get the impression these women are being forced to come to work in bikinis or something. I think it's being blown up a bit.

http://www.fmvmagazine.com/?p=13391

“At the end of the day I am the work I produce, not a pair of boobs,” she said. “It’s individuals who may or may not be sexist, and those are folks who reside in the broader ‘asshole’ category that applies to all things, not just games.

end of discussion, some people are assholes, most are not. Patrick jumped the gun on this.

@martyarf said:

@Arx724 said:

@martyarf said:

@Arx724: Truly a burden comparable to that of women.

Again, why should I care?

If you don't care about the marginalisation of half the world's population, then congrats on your sociopathic diagnosis.

Serious question. Since you care about this issue so much I'm curious as to what you have done in an attempt to help these issues? It's entirely possible that you actually do things to help, but overall I tend to think that caring about an issue and doing nothing about it is just as bad as not caring at all. Caring helps nobody, action does.

For example, suicide prevention is an important thing to me, so every year I try to donate money to some various charities and such to help out a little bit. But I'm not going to judge somebody that doesn't care about suicide prevention, and try and tell them that makes them a horrible person. Everybody is different.

Straight up - I have no goddamn idea how to deal with this stuff. I feel like I'm being made to feel guilty for things that other people have done and then feel shitty about myself that that's my gut reaction to this sort of thing. I try not to be an awful person.

@Arx724 said:

@martyarf said:

@Arx724: Truly a burden comparable to that of women.

Again, why should I care?

I mean if the issue doesn't bother you and you don't in fact care than you're right, there really isn't a reason for you to care. People are so quick to judge one another they assume that if you don't care about sexism that happens in the games industry that makes you a horrible person.

I tend to believe that everybody has things about them that make them horrible, and things that make them good. I'm sure the people judging you because you don't care have plenty of skeletons in their closet that you can judge them on. So we will all just continue to judge each other, have our own problems and solutions, and continue to be living, breathing human beings with our own unique perspectives and personalities. Frankly I prefer that to this mythical utopia where everybody thinks the exact same about everything.

@jozzy said:

@SpicyRichter said:

It's funny this is such a big deal when women in the middle east aren't even allowed to show their faces outside the home. Maybe some of this energy should be put into fighting for their rights?

There are places where kids have to work 10 hours a day for a few bowls of rice, maybe some energy should be put into fighting for their rights? Oh wait no, there are places where people die because of hunger, all energy should be put into that. Do you see how dumb that argument is?

I think he was trying to get people to gain a little perspective on the situation. The way some people react to these types of issues you would think that people are dying. Of course it's a silly argument but it's still an interesting point to consider.

But then again you could say this about pretty much anything like "Hey as long as people aren't dying it's not a big deal" and in that case nothing would ever get done. At the same time though I think outright dismissal of his point is dumb also. Why not take a moment to reflect on how great our lives are in the grand scheme of things before we dive into fighting social injustice. Perspective never hurt anybody.

I think men understand these problems, but at least for me, all I can say is:

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

"one of gaming's most memorable protagonists regardless of gender"

Faith was not a memorable character, what exactly was so memorable about her? How many people were talking about her a month after Mirror's Edge came out, and how much of what was being said wasn't talking about her specifically as a female character? I hate to come down on you and split hairs over something so minor, especially because I respect your intentions with this article, but I think that statement amounts to little more than flattery on your part, Patrick.

@CarlosTheDwarf said:

Ugh, please knock of this embarrassing pandering, GB. I come here to read about games, not witness pointless, boorish scolding over gender politics. Sheesh.

Couldn't agree more.

@KidA: Totally irrelevant to the actual article but fine, good job quoting and congratulating a post about the problem that has as much to do with gaming as most other tech industries. Buzzwords abound.

@theguy said:

@CaLe said:

Baldism is worse than sexism. At least sexism gets some goddamned attention. Baldism never does. Fuck that shit.

Typical baldie...

Hey! Not cool, man. Not cool...

@Mofaz said:

Cool, an article on sexism, and what do you get? Men complaining about people forcing them to "feel guilty," or white male men saying the only solution is to "stop giving a shit" when they've literally had no difficulty in their life concerning their sex and race beyond a black person calling them a cracker that one time. Why do they do this?

Simple, they want to make everything about themselves, and they can't understand the issues other people have because they're so blinded by their own god damned need to be involved in everything and be the center of everything. Because when a woman complains about something that is genuinely fucking up her life, it's "attention whoring," because when they've been creepy sexually harassing perverts themselves the women have been "bitches" and can't see them for the "nice guys" they are. Because throughout the history of patriarchy, throughout the history of male-dominated religion, through-out the history of everything and life, male whites have been crying about how they worked for the god damned silver spoon in their mouth, and how these blacks and women and gays should just shut the hell and suck it up because they didn't give a shit that one time they got called cracker by a black guy.

You are the issue, you are the problem. Try to think about that next time you hear a woman speak on X-Box live and your first reaction is to call her a "slut" or a "stupid whore" and then rationalize your own brutal misogyny by saying "they should just suck it up."

I'm pretty sure all the men in fundamentalist Islamic countries feel the same exact why when their "bitches" whine about how they get put to death for looking at a man the wrong way.

Bravo

@TheSouthernDandy: But that comment is not at all stupid...

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@SexVicar I feel it's my civic duty to warn you you're wasting your time. Dudes been arguing his point for like 16 hours. It's almost impressive. This thread needs to be closed in the worst way.

If it needs to be closed so badly, then Patrick should come and apologize for igniting a flame war with his non-journalism.

Because Twitter is the place to tackle a serious issue like sexism in the work place. It's easy to make something sound sexist using 140 characters, but I can see almost all of those so called sexist moments either happing in any field or being taken out of context.

For example the one where the guy flirted with her over text, just look at the statistics of how many people meet their spouse at work. Of course people will try to form relationship's, that's not sexist that life.

The one about the "vagina in the room", I can easily see a scenario where the woman said it her self or laughed at the joke. I've worked with women like that.

The one where "you play games? you don't look like a gamer". Well that's true, look at the statistics for who plays games, the male audience is more common.

The one about "they called me a receptionist when I sat by the door", well again look at the statistics, more women work reception than men. I've tried getting a job as receptionist and it was always gave to women. Sexism works both ways.

I could go on but the bottom line is this will do nothing to stop sexism because they are using twitter instead of speaking out to their boss when stuff like this happens. A word of advise to women don't complain on something like twitter you will not be taken seriously. Also, when something happens go to your boss and tell him, if he does not stop it you will have a nice lawsuit against the company. Look at the comparisons between sexism lawsuit's between women in the game industry and those in other fields and clearly women in other fields get the same amount sexism if not more.

Fucking Christ.

@SexVicar said:

@Spooty: Well, you want Journalism. Patrick did exactly what you do on a breaking news story by sourcing a cross section of twitter accounts and publishing quotes from then to highlight what the issue is. Slightly editorialised with his comment at the end, but by the end of it, I know the issue, know the backlash and know where the story could go from here. Meanwhile Patrick can use the time this story is in the public domain and being discussed to brainstorm more articles on the subject, contact people in the industry to see if they can spare some time for an interview and use his resources to follow up on it. News articles are never a "one and done" feature. Everything changes, even in a matter of hours. And you have to get on top of that quickly. That is journalism. If you don't like it, then go to Kotaku where you can get all the salacious scandal and little news of actual worth that you want.

You're right that I can't completely blame Patrick for commenting on and condensing an issue for consumption as it is his job but I feel that starting a discussion on the topic with bite size comments from the cultural plague that is twitter about a complex social issue is just reinforcing people's stances on the problem. If he really wants to attempt to do some good on the subject in the future (which I think you are right in believing he will) he'll bring some real stories and interesting viewpoints that can hopefully move the discussion forward instead of just perpetuating a stupid internet fight.

Editted cause I don't need to put (Just my opinion) on a post that is already all just my opinion.

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@SexVicar I feel it's my civic duty to warn you you're wasting your time. Dudes been arguing his point for like 16 hours. It's almost impressive. This thread needs to be closed in the worst way.

If it needs to be closed so badly, then Patrick should come and apologize for igniting a flame war with his non-journalism.

@SexVicar: Just like the other dozen articles Patrick has written. Hardly seems such a pressing issue that he should abandon any sense of journalistic integrity on the way, no? Must've been a slow day at the office.

@SexVicar: What an important news story that needed immediate attention, this largely irrelevant Twitter 'movement.' I want to know where the news story was for #TeamBrad and #FuckRyanDavis.

@SexVicar: What an important news story that needed immediate attention, this largely irrelevant Twitter 'movement.' I want to know where the news story was for #TeamBrad and #FuckRyanDavis.

@Clonedzero said:

@Meowshi said:

@TatsurouXIII said:

games are for men. men like big boobs and skimpy outfits on CG girls. case closed.

Games should be for everyone, and I don't think you actually read the article.

someone doesn't understand the concept of sarcasm

Whatever.

@thatdutchguy said:

make some video content instead of this bullshit giantbomb.

This.

This was just twitter vomitted onto a news page. Come back when you've interviewed people effected by sexism in the industry and more thoroughly explored the problem instead of just quoting some twitter messages with little to no content or context. Because of the simplicity of the stories and sentiments in the article all it did was create 1500+ comments of people arguing over nothing and no ones mind being changed because of a new interesting perspective they hadn't seen before. The twitter movement itself is not as annoying as all the "journalism" surrounding it. I'm sure there are a few people that are more aware of the issue now, but simple awareness without true understanding and context is almost as bad as ignorance. Socially all this awareness does is harden people on their stances either way (there aren't two sides to this argument), the only real change you can make is enforcing the rules set to stop sexism and educating your children correctly and giving them the tools and morals so that as the older generations leave their post they take their place with the good sense to not be sexist.

@BrianP said:

Is this a super in depth look at the issue of sexism in gaming? No, obviously not.

This is as shallow as I can imagine an article. Which is why most of us are arguing about the same old issues as before, and why this basically served as a 'reminder that the feminism in gaming thing exists.' What's telling is those actually discussing the 'sexism' point out the stupidity of a couple of these tweets [namely the one about the phone number and flirting, the other about a secretary at the front desk] or how Patrick writes "surprise, the memorable Faith is written by a female!" when she's a forgettable protagonist. Does he think men can't write good women because they're sexist? She's even the banner on the front page for the article and yet completely misconceived as some kind of paragon of good female writing.

Wow, that amount of comments... what happened in here?

Anyway, it's hilarious how Leigh Alexander jumped on this. She apparently still thinks people only gave her shit for her obnoxious behavior because she's a woman.

@Gordo789 said:

@Dylabaloo said:

@Gordo789 said:

@Dylabaloo: so what you're saying is that in order for these grievances to be valid and worthy of discussion, they need to present them better? Sorry ladies, come back when you've got more than 140 characters of complaints!

For an article that is going to incite meaningful discussion about the subject I'd rather detailed experiences of the sexism that they are trying to make us aware of. This whole campaign is to raise awareness but where is the content, besides brief "stories". (Inverted commas because 140 characters doen't justify the term story.) The tweets could be used in the article to show the public outcry but as the basis of the whole argument, its a bit thin. This article isn't good enough from somebody that considers themselves a journalist.

yeah i get what you're saying, and apologize if my comment came off as snippy. I'd rather have the things you're talking about as well! Maybe we'll get that, it's totally worth asking for.

What I was getting at is that many people seem to be writing off the complaints of these women based on how they're being presented, which, if you would put yourself in their shoes you'd see is a shitty thing to do. Imagine if you had to put up with all kinds of horrible discrimination all the time, and when you went to complain about it a common response was, "ooooh, you're not complaining the right way... try again." That's a really sucky situation to be in.

Absolutely no problem, it's easy to get angry on the internet. I don't disagree that these complaints are valid, its just if you want them to be taken seriously they have to be presented in a serious manner. Empathy alone won't cause change, it seems to just be entrenching people in their positions.

@BlastProcessing said:

@Dylabaloo said:

@BrianP said:

@EnduranceFun said:

For all the users coming in here and saying how 'ashamed' they are of the Giant Bomb community, I'm disappointed that there are so many who are just congratulating Patrick on 'raising awareness' and flippantly dismissing the community's response as sexist. It's clear that no opinions have been changed by this article at all and it only resulted in a war of words between two sides that absolutely disagree with one another. In my view, one side argues that everything the tweets say can be taken at face value and any article on sexism is justified to vaguely 'raise awareness.' All the other side is saying is that this isn't the whole truth and that aspects of it are disingenuous, or just calling it a stupid flame-baiting article. It's not black and white, these replies re-enforce that nothing has been accomplished in 1,500+ comments.

What's sad is this is exactly what I expect from the staff. The last thing they want to do is appear politically incorrect and will happily shit on half the community to claim the moral high ground.

So you are saying it's between one side who would rather believe the first hand accounts by women who are actually in the industry and have actually experienced these things and the other side who thinks it's better to default to the position of not believing women who are in the industry and have first hand experience with these situations? And happily shit on half the community? Unless you are claiming half the community supports sexism I don't know what you are talking about. Take a step back and a deep breath and think about why dudes are getting so defensive about women pointing out sexist behavior.

What he is saying is that Patricks article is not insightful and not giving us both sides of the story. (The other side not being I'm a horrible sexist, fuck women getting into my games!) Rather this article was misguided and provides no more discussion value or effort than a forum user going on twitter and typing in the hashtag and posting it saying we are bad people. (Like many other game sites have done ad nauseum) It provides nothing new, Patrick should instead get interviews and actual first hand accounts that are longer than 140 characters and set an objective and critical tone that would hopefully inform the comment section below. Making generalisations about males or females is what gets us into situations like this in the first place. All this story has done is start a flamewar not a serious discussion that is necessary for an subject like this.

I am just quoting this so people take note. Well said!

Except that the only thing patrick said that could be construed as a generalization about men is "As a male, the hardest part about this discussion is you really can't imagine yourself in their place, which is why I suspect these movements have, like clockwork, intensely negative responses." Which is just true. You can never totally understand someone else's experience, whether it be based on race/gender/sexuality or whatever if you are not in that group.

Is this a super in depth look at the issue of sexism in gaming? No, obviously not. But I don't think that should be the barrier to entry to talking about it at all. No one is attacking all men, or calling all men pigs. As was said before, it is not black and white. You can criticize the behaviors of a few without it meaning you are condemning the whole.

#dontgiveashit   and make some video content instead of this bullshit giantbomb.   

It's clear everyone in these comments has formed an opinion. And an internet argument has NEVER changed anyone's mind.

Just realize, that you might be on the wrong side of this issue... Don't get insulted or take it personally - the greatest people can be wrong sometimes.

Just think it over, and imagine - what if I'm wrong? Why does the other side say what they say? Why would someone else, another rational human being, say and think something completely different.

Only with reflection like that can you arrive at a better informed opinion.

@Dylabaloo said:

@BrianP said:

@EnduranceFun said:

For all the users coming in here and saying how 'ashamed' they are of the Giant Bomb community, I'm disappointed that there are so many who are just congratulating Patrick on 'raising awareness' and flippantly dismissing the community's response as sexist. It's clear that no opinions have been changed by this article at all and it only resulted in a war of words between two sides that absolutely disagree with one another. In my view, one side argues that everything the tweets say can be taken at face value and any article on sexism is justified to vaguely 'raise awareness.' All the other side is saying is that this isn't the whole truth and that aspects of it are disingenuous, or just calling it a stupid flame-baiting article. It's not black and white, these replies re-enforce that nothing has been accomplished in 1,500+ comments.

What's sad is this is exactly what I expect from the staff. The last thing they want to do is appear politically incorrect and will happily shit on half the community to claim the moral high ground.

So you are saying it's between one side who would rather believe the first hand accounts by women who are actually in the industry and have actually experienced these things and the other side who thinks it's better to default to the position of not believing women who are in the industry and have first hand experience with these situations? And happily shit on half the community? Unless you are claiming half the community supports sexism I don't know what you are talking about. Take a step back and a deep breath and think about why dudes are getting so defensive about women pointing out sexist behavior.

What he is saying is that Patricks article is not insightful and not giving us both sides of the story. (The other side not being I'm a horrible sexist, fuck women getting into my games!) Rather this article was misguided and provides no more discussion value or effort than a forum user going on twitter and typing in the hashtag and posting it saying we are bad people. (Like many other game sites have done ad nauseum) It provides nothing new, Patrick should instead get interviews and actual first hand accounts that are longer than 140 characters and set an objective and critical tone that would hopefully inform the comment section below. Making generalisations about males or females is what gets us into situations like this in the first place. All this story has done is start a flamewar not a serious discussion that is necessary for an subject like this.

I am just quoting this so people take note. Well said!

@Dylabaloo said:

@Gordo789 said:

@Dylabaloo: so what you're saying is that in order for these grievances to be valid and worthy of discussion, they need to present them better? Sorry ladies, come back when you've got more than 140 characters of complaints!

For an article that is going to incite meaningful discussion about the subject I'd rather detailed experiences of the sexism that they are trying to make us aware of. This whole campaign is to raise awareness but where is the content, besides brief "stories". (Inverted commas because 140 characters doen't justify the term story.) The tweets could be used in the article to show the public outcry but as the basis of the whole argument, its a bit thin. This article isn't good enough from somebody that considers themselves a journalist.

yeah i get what you're saying, and apologize if my comment came off as snippy. I'd rather have the things you're talking about as well! Maybe we'll get that, it's totally worth asking for.

What I was getting at is that many people seem to be writing off the complaints of these women based on how they're being presented, which, if you would put yourself in their shoes you'd see is a shitty thing to do. Imagine if you had to put up with all kinds of horrible discrimination all the time, and when you went to complain about it a common response was, "ooooh, you're not complaining the right way... try again." That's a really sucky situation to be in.

@BrianP: Hm nice one, say I'm projecting after you not-so-subtly implying everyone complaining is a sexist, how witty. How can you be anti-sexism? Doesn't that imply there's a group that is pro-sexism? I suppose there may be fringe groups that are but not on Giant Bomb, which is what you are implying. And yep, there you go misrepresenting my view as so many have already in this comment section. As Dylabaloo said, this article is crap, I'm sure though that if Patrick posted a picture of his own turd with sexist tweets stuck onto it you'd say it was all well and good because it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. My having standards is not equatable to your head being lodged high up in your gluteus maximus.

@Gordo789 said:

@Dylabaloo: so what you're saying is that in order for these grievances to be valid and worthy of discussion, they need to present them better? Sorry ladies, come back when you've got more than 140 characters of complaints!

For an article that is going to incite meaningful discussion about the subject I'd rather detailed experiences of the sexism that they are trying to make us aware of. This whole campaign is to raise awareness but where is the content, besides brief "stories". (Inverted commas because 140 characters doen't justify the term story.) The tweets could be used in the article to show the public outcry but as the basis of the whole argument, its a bit thin. This article isn't good enough from Patrick, who considers himself an investigative journalist. And I write this not because I hate him but because I know he can do better.