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How Smart Uncharted Fans Changed Naughty Dog's Game

The community was riled up about changes in Uncharted 3, articulated their problems, and were invited to the studio to help Naughty Dog fix them.

Uncharted 2 introduced the series to multiplayer, and like Assassin's Creed, it worked surprisingly well.
Uncharted 2 introduced the series to multiplayer, and like Assassin's Creed, it worked surprisingly well.

The video game industry sits still for no man, and developers are constantly asked to shift, evolve, and innovate to remain on top. Fans do not accept every change with open arms, and the increased connectivity of communities, fostered by the sharp increase of community managers who try to keep their fingers on the pulse, means developers are listening more than ever.

Arne Meyer is the liaison at Naughty Dog between the community who adores the games coming from the Sony-owned studio and the developers who spend years creating these lavish, spectacle-laden video games.

One of the strange disconnects was the gunplay feeling different between single and multiplayer.
One of the strange disconnects was the gunplay feeling different between single and multiplayer.

It’s up to Meyer to figure out when the community is making a serious point and pass it on. He started to suspect they were in the last few weeks, immediately following the launch of Uncharted 3: Drake’s Deception. The community started to raise concerns about changes made to the gunplay since the release of 2009’s Uncharted 2: Among Thieves.

The debate started on their own forums at naughtydog.com, and quickly spread to the popular gaming message board NeoGAF.

“They felt that Uncharted 2 really had the aiming down, had the gunplay down correctly, so they were trying to dissect what was happening there,” he said.

The key word here is “dissect.” It’s one thing to complain, it’s another to structurally break down what makes the game tick, ripping apart the design logic, and attempting to understand what was causing the feeling of disconnect between Uncharted 2 and Uncharted 3. Players were looking at dead zone, velocity and stick aiming changes without any first-hand knowledge.

“A lot of what we were seeing was people driving themselves nuts trying to figure out what it was, and a lot of theories were coming out, so we wanted to make sure that we clarified that,” said Meyer.

Players were uploading videos with commentary, drawing up graphs explaining their theories--clearly, a scale had been tipped.

Meyer sat down with game director Justin Richmond and multiplayer programmer Travis McIntosh to sketch out the changes made for Uncharted 3. He pulled people from both sides because the community was saying the issue was specifically related to singleplayer. The result was a blog post on Naughty Dog's site that Meyer hoped would help fans settle to Uncharted 3.

It didn’t work, so it was back to the drawing board.

“We took some time to investigate that internally because, again, we knew we’d made changes, but in all of our focus testing--probably about three months of straight focus testing--we never got any feedback the aiming was unsatisfactory to those people,” he said. “And for us, it’s very hard. I mean, obviously because we’ve played around with this, so whatever we had internally we’d get used to very quickly.”

Both Naughty Dog and Naughty Dog’s fans were banging their heads against the wall at this point. Meyer threw out the idea of bringing some fans into the actual studio to better articulate the issue, but the idea came and went.

“Justin came by later and said ‘Well, can you do that?’ And I’m like ‘sure.’” he said. “So, I posted on the NeoGAF forum where people were going through it in a very eloquent fashion, really explaining their gripes very clearly, and I said ‘Well, is anyone local that can come in and explain it to us?’”

Two users showed up, each bringing with them another person also versed in Uncharted, and all four were members of NeoGAF. Everyone sat down with Richmond and McIntosh, and plead their case regarding the issues within Uncharted 3 with the very same people responsible for making them.

In order to make sure Naughty Dog was getting the right feedback, the team employed a variation of the Pepsi Challenge.

“We showed them a before and after without telling them which one was changed to see how they liked these alternate settings that our programmer had come up with,” said Meyer. “As part of that process, we iterated on what the feedback was and we were making changes on the fly, and changing different things from what we originally changed to get the right feel for the aiming.”

When the patch launches in the coming weeks, a tweak will reflect the community's response.
When the patch launches in the coming weeks, a tweak will reflect the community's response.

It's not hard to imagine how a fan might become easily starstruck. Here you are, chatting with the creators of one of your favorite games, telling them what you think about that game, and having one of the developers implement your changes in real-time. That’s really something else.

The traditional problem with incorporating fans is the inability to get properly articulated feedback, or to have players who are so wrapped up in the idea of coming behind the curtain that everyone's sidetracked.

“They definitely weren’t here ‘blinded by the light.’” said Meyer. “These are our fans, so I don’t want to say they came in with a massively critical chip on their shoulder over it, but the two guys that we brought in, I think they were really sharp in terms of being analytical and being able upfront with what the changes were, and they were very clear and direct about what it was, and it was actually super helpful for us.”

Naughty Dog is currently working on a patch for Uncharted 3 that will address, among other things, the gunplay concerns. There’s no date for the patch, but when it goes live, there will be an aiming toggle that brings the settings closer to Uncharted 2. This is merely an option, though, and anyone who’s just happy with how Uncharted 3 plays won’t have to make the switch.

Meyer said Naughty Dog didn’t have a policy for bringing fans to the studio, but that may change.

“Justin and I always talk about, when we’re on our press tours, that one of the awesomest things when we’re doing press is when we have the opportunity to meet with our fans,” he said. “For Justin, it was great to actually have somebody come in and have actionable changes happen in front of them.”

Patrick Klepek on Google+

199 Comments

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LiquidPrince

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Edited By LiquidPrince

@Hizang said:

The people who wanted to play Uncharted 3 have already played Uncharted 3.

Uncharted is infinitely replayable in my eyes. I've beaten Uncharted 2 five times, and Uncharted 3, three times, have a platinum in both and I still pop them both in once in a while. The type of epic action is just so fun to play through, even if you already played through it multiple times. It's like watching your favorite movie a hundred times over.

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ultimatepunchrod

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Edited By ultimatepunchrod

This shows why Naughty Dog are some of the best in the industry.

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Sugreev2001_1

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Edited By Sugreev2001_1

Tell them to bring back the Cutscene Theater !!!

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LiquidPrince

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Edited By LiquidPrince

@Vitor said:

@LiquidPrince said:

As a fan who has beaten Uncharted 2 five times, and Uncharted 3, three times, with a platinum in both, I can say that there is very little difference between the two. There are only two aspects that have changed:

1. The diagonal movement of the reticule has reduced speed. So movement left to right, or up and down is the same as it was, but diagonal movement speed has been reduced, making the overall shooting feel slower.

2. Naughty Dog mentions on the disc special features that they changed how the bullet leaves the gun. They say that in Uncharted 2 it was possible for the bullet to leave the gun at an angle, however in Uncharted 3, it always leaves completley straight. Meaning that unless the reticule is EXACTLY on top of an enemies head, it is possible the bullet will fly past him, even when it looks like it should have hit.

In Uncharted 2, I assume since the bullet could leave the barrel at an angle, there was a sort of pseudo auto aim, that ever so slightly helped the player direct their bullets.

Overall the changes are super minor however.

I'm going to have to direct you to the video I posted on the first page of comments for this article - that DEFINITELY did not happen in UC2. And that's not an issue of bullet flight trajectory or diagonal movement. Something is causing the reticule to 'stick' to the x and y axis - and that was not the case in UC2.

@AmericanNinja said:

Sad thing is there is no aiming problem. It's working fine for me. The kids at NeoGAF have talked themselves into thinking there is an aiming problem. Its all in their heads. Can't believe ND listened to some kids at a videogame messageboard.

Go check the videos Gaf posted. Or the video I recorded and put in the first page of posts here. You're the delusional one if you're willing to ignore all that evidence, not the people over at Gaf who actually collected the info and presented it in a coherent manner for ND to work with.

The sticking is not an issue that I can reproduce. I tested the games out myself when the game was released because I felt a slight difference. Upon testing, I noticed that the main difference is the speed of the diagonal reticule movement. While I'm not denying it is an issue some may have faced, the sticking never happened for me, and I couldn't reproduce it.

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abrasion

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Edited By abrasion

Now if only we could get this for BF3 - I adore the game but it really needs some subtle weaking :/

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NipCrip66

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Edited By NipCrip66

Fair play to ND for doing this. Everyone I knew who played this got frustrated by the gunplay and all that it was worse than UC2. I know there are other issues with this game but this would definitely make the gameplay less frustrating.

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deactivated-63c9a5152a56a

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How about the removal of all the single-player rewards and tweaks? Getting rid of that stuff completely destroyed the game's replay value for me.

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vitor

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Edited By vitor

@LiquidPrince: Really? Weird. I managed to reproduce it several times. Changed controllers and even consoles and still had the same issues.

Are you using a launch model or one of the newer slims?

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LiquidPrince

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Edited By LiquidPrince

@Vitor said:

@LiquidPrince: Really? Weird. I managed to reproduce it several times. Changed controllers and even consoles and still had the same issues.

Are you using a launch model or one of the newer slims?

I tested out on both consoles. I have a 60GB launch as well as 320GB slim. I mainly played on slim though. Wasn't able to reproduce on either. I even retried after I saw the video of the dude, tapping the sticks and his reticule lagging. I just couldn't get it to do the same things. Like I said however, if you were able to reproduce it, then it's great that Naughty Dog is coming out with a patch. I will be eager to to play through it a fourth time, and see if it feels much different.

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vitor

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Edited By vitor

@LiquidPrince said:

@Vitor said:

@LiquidPrince: Really? Weird. I managed to reproduce it several times. Changed controllers and even consoles and still had the same issues.

Are you using a launch model or one of the newer slims?

I tested out on both consoles. I have a 60GB launch as well as 320GB slim. I mainly played on slim though. Wasn't able to reproduce on either. I even retried after I saw the video of the dude, tapping the sticks and his reticule lagging. I just couldn't get it to do the same things. Like I said however, if you were able to reproduce it, then it's great that Naughty Dog is coming out with a patch. I will be eager to to play through it a fourth time, and see if it feels much different.

To be honest, I couldn't reproduce the input lag problem, only the axis sticking in the video I recorded/posted earlier.

I'm looking forward to the patch also as it apparently will reintroduce the object based motion blur that UC2 had but which, for some reason, wasn't enabled in 3 (something to do with the last minute changes they had to do to the streaming tech which interfered with that aspect of the engine). I've put off my second playthrough until the patch comes out so looking forward to getting another chance to rip through the campaign.

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Edited By X19

I fear it's to late as a lot of people have already played it and moved on. The multiplayer is what is important to me and it will be interesting to see what they will tweak with all the feedback they have got. The problem with Naughty Dog is they try to reinvent themselves so often that the end result can be damaging. They listen to a certain group of fans for UC2 multiplayer and the patch 1.05 ruined it for good.
 
As far as Uncharted 3 single player goes I didn't notice any problems so I'm intrigued what the difference will be with the patch.
 
For those interested in playing co op and competitive multiplayer with other bombers check my thread out.

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AlKusanagi

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Edited By AlKusanagi

I must be a pro at terrible game controls, because not once did I have a single issue with the aiming in Uncharted 3.

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Edited By LiquidPrince

@Vitor said:

@LiquidPrince said:

@Vitor said:

@LiquidPrince: Really? Weird. I managed to reproduce it several times. Changed controllers and even consoles and still had the same issues.

Are you using a launch model or one of the newer slims?

I tested out on both consoles. I have a 60GB launch as well as 320GB slim. I mainly played on slim though. Wasn't able to reproduce on either. I even retried after I saw the video of the dude, tapping the sticks and his reticule lagging. I just couldn't get it to do the same things. Like I said however, if you were able to reproduce it, then it's great that Naughty Dog is coming out with a patch. I will be eager to to play through it a fourth time, and see if it feels much different.

To be honest, I couldn't reproduce the input lag problem, only the axis sticking in the video I recorded/posted earlier.

I'm looking forward to the patch also as it apparently will reintroduce the object based motion blur that UC2 had but which, for some reason, wasn't enabled in 3 (something to do with the last minute changes they had to do to the streaming tech which interfered with that aspect of the engine). I've put off my second playthrough until the patch comes out so looking forward to getting another chance to rip through the campaign.

Yeah the motion blur was very reduced in 3, but not completely absent. I assumed they turned it down because they needed the horsepower for the new lighting engine.

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Edited By Nihilius

They are bringing in people from neoGaf instead of their own forums? That makes my blood boil.

They also seem to post more frequently on neogaf than their own forums, you rarely see a ND post on the official forums. It's ridiculous.

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Keeng

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Edited By Keeng

This is awesome and I'm glad they're paying attention. That said, I have zero issue with Uncharted 3's shooting and I had zero issue with Uncharted 2's. I see the differences but both are totally fine.

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I remember being on NeoGAF before the first Uncharted came out, and some changes were made to the gun stuff on that game as well, based on what people saw in screenshots and videos. Minor things, but it's cool how how Naughty Dog listens to the community.

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Edited By sammo21

Too bad none of the fans helped fix the terrible shooting and action sequences in Uncharted 3. Uncharted 2 did all of it better.

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Edited By probablytuna

This is why I love Naughty Dog.

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prestonhedges

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Edited By prestonhedges

Oh, I didn't know Patrick wrote for Playstation Magazine.

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Edited By PXAbstraction

Very cool story. Much like how I wear beating the original Metal Gear Solid 3 with the terrible camera as a little gaming badge of honour, now some of us can say "We beat Uncharted 3 before they fixed the broken combat." :)

I still think the encounter design with guys who spawn behind you, guys seeing you from miles away and every second guy having a rocket launcher is bad design but that's much easier to mitigate with better aiming. Kudos to Naughty Dog for listening to the fans.

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Edited By JesseCherry

Even if they were star struck, it doesn't matter as long as they still brought up their issues. Though, I could see it bein a problem with testing

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HarkinNecro

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Edited By HarkinNecro

One of the strange disconnects was the gunplay feeling different between singel and multiplayer.

typo?

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Edited By H00NER

Upon playing this game, the first thing I noticed was how bad the controls had become. It reminded me of playing a FPS on a PC with a gamepad. It felt as if there was no aim assist, and that I was constantly missing the target particularly when NPCs were moving. As a result, I unconsciously often found myself preferring hand-to-hand combat over gun play.

I don't read NeoGAF, so I'm really glad to hear that this issue is being addressed. I cannot believe that they tested this game for 3 months and no one commented on the controls. The reviews for this game by most reviewers were so gushing that hardly any critical issues find there way into print.

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Edited By TheFrostedGamer

And everyday Klepek sucks more of the appeal out of this website with his pretentious articles. What used to be an off-center , fun gaming site run by Jeff Gerstmann is now a toilet of college essays, ala IGN Style. Shouts to everyone who funds this - in the end you got what you wanted.

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Edited By harinosho

is "awesomest " an actual word?

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Edited By Little_Socrates

A lot of people did not like the new gameplay, so I'm glad they're offering a new option. The gunplay did not bother me in the single player, though, so this patch will not really affect my opinion of the game. Hopefully it will help some of those with larger complaints.

However, the complete unusability of the AK-47 for the first progression levels of multiplayer is still near-criminal.

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Edited By huntad

Awesome story Patrick!

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Edited By AiurFlux

Throughout the entire article he calls ANNE Meyer a he.

The fuck Patrick. Still hungover or something?

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Edited By WightnNerdy

They should've fixed the problem before the game was released. Oh well!

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Video games as an industry are still pretty young, and the fact that you actually Can release a patch in the way that you can't really patch a novel or a book, means that those in the industry are still scrambling to figure out some kind of equilibrium.

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visual_clarity

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Edited By visual_clarity

@AiurFlux said:

Throughout the entire article he calls ANNE Meyer a he.

The fuck Patrick. Still hungover or something?

It is indeed ARNE Meyer and he is a guy. (Pic below)

No Caption Provided
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subsalicylate

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Edited By subsalicylate

@patrickklepek   
Error in article:  
... being able upfront with...

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Edited By Brackynews

@AiurFlux: Might want to increase your font size, there. It's ARNE.

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Edited By X19
@Nihilius said:

They are bringing in people from neoGaf instead of their own forums? That makes my blood boil.

They also seem to post more frequently on neogaf than their own forums, you rarely see a ND post on the official forums. It's ridiculous.

I'm a regular on the ND forum and the Community manager spends more time on Gaf than the official forum. The mods post more than the people who are supposed to give information. It's funny because threads get made which are basically just copy/paste from NeoGaf as they get updates before the ND forum does. 
 
I honestly don't care though as it just shows the official forum has lost it's effectiveness in giving critical feedback. It happens to most official forums I guess as the same threads get made on the same problems everyday. Who is going to listen especially as most of them are just plain whining threads at this point.
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spilledmilkfactory

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I thought the aiming in uncharted 3 felt really off, but I thought maybe it was just because I hadn't played the second in a while. Good to know they're going to be fixing it, because I actually have a much harder time playing 3 than I did with 2

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MordeaniisChaos

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Edited By MordeaniisChaos

Man, that drove me crazy, the little I played of it! Awesome.

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vitor

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Edited By vitor

@LiquidPrince said:

@Vitor said:

@LiquidPrince said:

@Vitor said:

@LiquidPrince: Really? Weird. I managed to reproduce it several times. Changed controllers and even consoles and still had the same issues.

Are you using a launch model or one of the newer slims?

I tested out on both consoles. I have a 60GB launch as well as 320GB slim. I mainly played on slim though. Wasn't able to reproduce on either. I even retried after I saw the video of the dude, tapping the sticks and his reticule lagging. I just couldn't get it to do the same things. Like I said however, if you were able to reproduce it, then it's great that Naughty Dog is coming out with a patch. I will be eager to to play through it a fourth time, and see if it feels much different.

To be honest, I couldn't reproduce the input lag problem, only the axis sticking in the video I recorded/posted earlier.

I'm looking forward to the patch also as it apparently will reintroduce the object based motion blur that UC2 had but which, for some reason, wasn't enabled in 3 (something to do with the last minute changes they had to do to the streaming tech which interfered with that aspect of the engine). I've put off my second playthrough until the patch comes out so looking forward to getting another chance to rip through the campaign.

Yeah the motion blur was very reduced in 3, but not completely absent. I assumed they turned it down because they needed the horsepower for the new lighting engine.

The per object based application glitched apparently. Only the full screen representation was still in effect. They had some major streaming issues on old PS3s due to the HDD fragmenting the longer the game went on and, in fixing that (a month before the disc went gold), the per object stuff was disabled.

Not a huge issue by any means but still, nice to have it fixed.

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MideonNViscera

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Edited By MideonNViscera

Hopefully 343 will bring me in for Halo 4! haha

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Edited By Enigma777

The aiming really threw me off (aka borderline unplayable) at first but I got used to it by the time I finished the game.

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Edited By HellBrendy

Maybe they'll finally put more than peas in the guns as well! The Uncharted-series really blows at the whole shootingthing, too bad the games are focusing more and more on it.

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Edited By randomfella21

It's great that Naughty Dog is doing this, but I had no problems at all with the controls in Uncharted 3. Also I think the only reason they did it is because there were articulate people actually using good logic to dissect the problem and not just a bunch of forum trolls. I don't know if anyone here was on the ND forum during the U3 beta but it was ridiculous. And the funny thing was ND changed a bunch of things based on the beta feedback for the final game and now the trolls are complaining about the changes that they initially asked for. Still not as bad as the Starcraft 2 forums though.

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Reluctant_Hero

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Edited By Reluctant_Hero

Neo GAF, to the mother F-ing rescue. Bravo, lads, bravo.

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Edited By deanoxd

Thats great, and i appreciate all their work on this matter and when the patches launches i can actually go back and finish the game. Because i flat out rage quit it playing UC3 about 2 weeks ago and haven't given a thought since the gun play issue was just to much for me as well all the god damn grenade spam because they built that stupid throw back mechanic so every enemy is just constantly throwing grenades at you. Uncharted was why i bought a PS3 and one of the reasons i keep mine, and it sucked so bad that i found myself hating playing UC3.

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Edited By LiquidPrince

@Vitor said:

@LiquidPrince said:

@Vitor said:

@LiquidPrince said:

@Vitor said:

@LiquidPrince: Really? Weird. I managed to reproduce it several times. Changed controllers and even consoles and still had the same issues.

Are you using a launch model or one of the newer slims?

I tested out on both consoles. I have a 60GB launch as well as 320GB slim. I mainly played on slim though. Wasn't able to reproduce on either. I even retried after I saw the video of the dude, tapping the sticks and his reticule lagging. I just couldn't get it to do the same things. Like I said however, if you were able to reproduce it, then it's great that Naughty Dog is coming out with a patch. I will be eager to to play through it a fourth time, and see if it feels much different.

To be honest, I couldn't reproduce the input lag problem, only the axis sticking in the video I recorded/posted earlier.

I'm looking forward to the patch also as it apparently will reintroduce the object based motion blur that UC2 had but which, for some reason, wasn't enabled in 3 (something to do with the last minute changes they had to do to the streaming tech which interfered with that aspect of the engine). I've put off my second playthrough until the patch comes out so looking forward to getting another chance to rip through the campaign.

Yeah the motion blur was very reduced in 3, but not completely absent. I assumed they turned it down because they needed the horsepower for the new lighting engine.

The per object based application glitched apparently. Only the full screen representation was still in effect. They had some major streaming issues on old PS3s due to the HDD fragmenting the longer the game went on and, in fixing that (a month before the disc went gold), the per object stuff was disabled.

Not a huge issue by any means but still, nice to have it fixed.

What difference does it make if individual objects are blurring, if the whole of the screen is blurring?

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dezvous

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Edited By dezvous
@HellBrendy yeah that's my biggest complaint too. It just takes too long to kill someone with an assault rifle in uncharted. That's why I play on very easy, it's not the kind of game I want to take my time with and aim for headshots everyone. It's more fun just running and gunning.
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mordi

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Nice story. 
 
@visual_clarity said:

@AiurFlux said:

Throughout the entire article he calls ANNE Meyer a he.

The fuck Patrick. Still hungover or something?

It is indeed ARNE Meyer and he is a guy. (Pic below)

No Caption Provided
As a side note, Arne is a common nordic name. I believe it is also somewhat common in some central/eastern european countries, although I can't say for sure.
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bassman2112

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Edited By bassman2112

Great article, but I just wanted to point out one spelling mistake... Under that first image it reads "singel," not "single" haha. But again, thanks for the awesome read - I love these looks into the industry

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Hangnail

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Edited By Hangnail

Singel?

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MikkaQ

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Well it's a nice effort, but a little too late for me. The damage is done. I have zero desire to play Uncharted 3 ever again, it was just too frustrating. I banged my head against it until I capped off the campaign, but by then I was so frustrated that I considered selling it off to a used game store, which would have been a first for me. I eventually didn't, but that's not gonna change the fact that it's going into deep, deep storage.

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kollay

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Edited By kollay

Wow, glad I wasn't imagining things when I was playing this from start to end. The aiming was considerably worse compared to the last two. I hate using shotguns, but there were A LOT of times where I had to give in and grab the SAS cause I could not for the love of everything that is holy line up my shots with regular automatics. The gunfights near the end made the experience even worse, with waves and waves of enemies flanking and rushing you plus asshole snipers, lastly the ever douchebaggy grenade launcher bro.