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Our Internet Empathy Problem

The disappearance of Flappy Bird has prompted streams of harassment and death threats. There are no consequences for the most vile of harassment on the Internet. This has to change.

We don't just have a game culture problem, we have an Internet culture problem.

No Caption Provided

Today, we have a better understanding of why Flappy Bird developer Dong Nguyen decided his game should no longer be available on the App Store: addiction. An interview with Forbes revealed the developer's insecurity with how people played it.

"I think it has become a problem," said Nguyen. "To solve that problem, it’s best to take down Flappy Bird. It’s gone forever.”

Until this morning, his motivations were the source of speculation. (I suspect this will continue to be the case.) It might have been the accusations of theft, it might have been the overwhelming spotlight success brings, and it might have been the torrent of abuse that was spewing forth on his Twitter feed. It might have been a combination of all three or none of the above. There are even some who theorize the virality was faked.

It doesn't actually matter. Even if Nguyen removed the game for reasons he won't disclose, reasons far less altruistic than protecting players from themselves, we can still read what has been said about him and to him.

On Sunday afternoon, I became aware of a custom Twitter list that collected some of the horrendous, awful words that had been targeted at Nguyen in the past few days. Many of them were death threats, some merely promised violence, and others shouted obscenities at the top of their digital lungs. Much of it was unequivocally abuse and deeply unsettling. Whether or not these comments impacted Nguyen doesn't change the fact that they exist. The sheer volume of abuse suggests much of the Internet populace believes there is no consequence for threats conveyed via Twitter or otherwise. There's good reason for that: they're right.

Amanda Hess' "Why Women Aren't Welcome on the Internet" article, for example, is an excellent and deeply applicable source on how much difficulty our modern legal and security infrastructures have dealing with the evolution of harassment. The tools of harassers are deeply embedded into the fabric of the Internet. Empowerment of the user is king. Unfortunately, it comes at all costs to the victims on the receiving end.

Here are a few examples of what was directed at Nguyen:

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Weirdly, much of the vitriol targeted at Nguyen may come from a deep misunderstanding of what's happening to Flappy Bird. It is not being erased from every iPhone and iPad. While Apple does have a "kill switch" that would allow the company to remotely nuke a piece of software from all of its devices, it has never deployed the "kill switch." It's reserved for malware and other havoc-inducing apps. (For example, developers who have snuck emulators onto the App Store hidden have not seen their apps forcefully removed from users who downloaded them before being pulled.) But even if these users better understood Flappy Bird's ultimate fate, it's no excuse, and underscores the flippant nature to much of Internet commentary.

What's one comment in a large sea? Well, It adds up. How many people need to tell you that you're an asshole in real-life for it to have an impact on your day?

When I linked to the aforementioned Twitter list, it spread quickly, and generated sympathy and questions. I want to respond to some of the commentary that I found troublesome, and explain why what people did to Nguyen underscores some deeper cultural issues about what we consider acceptable Internet behavior.

(I'm not going to publish the actual tweets, just quote them.)

"I've never experienced any hate like this but I have to imagine 75% of the world would choose to endure this for 50k a day."

The most important part of this is "I've never experienced any hate like this." Red flag. The Verge speculated Flappy Bird was generating $50,000 daily. Nguyen's simply said it's "a lot." This has become the de facto excuse for why it's okay to dismiss Nguyen. He's rich! Who care if he's miserable about it? If a person is making a substantial amount of money, the logic goes, that's reason to put up with whatever the Internet can throw you. (Whether money buys happiness remains an open-ended question in academia.) But this displays an amazing lack of empathy. Can you imagine what it would be like to become a celebrity overnight? No. What gives you the right to evaluate their mental well-being? Why are you allowed to tell them how to feel?

"What mob? The mob of teenage girls who make completely idle death threats? I wouldn't take this too seriously."

"but it's not a real mob though. No one is actually gonna kill this guy."

A threat sent to former Call of Duty developer Robert Bowling.
A threat sent to former Call of Duty developer Robert Bowling.

It's hard to take this tweet seriously. What, mind you, is an idle death threat? That such a damningly vague phrase even exists is evidence itself that we've allowed discourse on the Internet to reach a point where we're supposed to be emotionally, mentally, and physically okay with death threats. If someone writes a death threat in a letter or in-person, that individual may be arrested by the police. At the very least, there are consequences. If someone writes a death threat over a social networking service, it's an "idle threat."

Words are powerful, and people should be responsible for them. When we characterize threats as "idle," we remove the individual from the equation. It's victim blaming. It's hard to imagine how Nguyen is to blame here.

When the Internet turns on you, it's hard to describe the emotional rollercoaster that goes along with it. You can't exactly walk away from the Internet forever. While looking at a long list of abuse Tweets directed at Nguyen, it's easy to distance yourself from it because, hey, it's not you. But I've been on the other side of that equation, albeit not to the same scale as Nguyen. When someone directs a threat of violence at you, it feels very personal. Every single one of them. When someone photoshops my wife into a photo to try and unsettle me, it feels very god damn personal. You cannot distance yourself from attacks that are directed at you, and to suggest otherwise only underscores one's lack of experience with the subject. You need a thick skin to survive as a public figure on the Internet, but that doesn't mean there aren't chinks in your armor. And as Jim Sterling mentioned on this week's morning show, it doesn't mean there isn't skin underneath. That skin can get raw.

We lack empathy on the Internet. There are people behind every game, every username, every Twitter account.

"what is the discussion at hand here? Should we be allowed to insult and/or threat people via the internet?"

Insult? Yes. Threaten? No. That is not protected speech. Learn how to construct a real argument.

"It's not that bad. I see worse shit in an average game of Dota."

This, unfortunately, rings true. It wouldn't surprise me if, statistically, the gaming audience was found to be more prone to this type of vitriolic commentary than other communities. The hardcore gaming demographic skews young. I'm afraid to imagine what kind of stupid things I might have said on today's Internet when I was 14-years-old. Many games, especially those online, are competitive, and adrenaline can bring out the worst in us.

But none of these are excuses for such poor behavior, and merely pointing out the problem doesn't solve it, either. A combination of legal, technological, and societal changes are needed to make the Internet a safer place, especially for critical, dissenting voices. You shouldn't have to put up with death threats on the Internet, and individuals shouldn't be allowed to get away with them without a reciprocal impact. This article won't change that, but the next time a situation like this flares up, you don't have to contribute to the problem, either.

Don't be silent. Speak up for targets of harassment. They're victims, after all.

***

If you're interested in reading more about Flappy Bird (there's lots to digest), here are some terrific pieces:

Patrick Klepek on Google+

792 Comments

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BeardDuder

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Edited By BeardDuder
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Edited By nick_verissimo

If you think this article is specifically about Flappy Bird or Dong Nguyen, you've missed the point considerably. I've started not reading comments on articles out of a fear of what I may find.

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Chrystolis

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The dumbest part of this is that all of those people that are bitching and moaning aren't even going to LOSE the game. They don't understand what it means for a game they already have to be taken off the store, but they freak the fuck out and make asinine threats.

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McDayman

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@atwa said:

Honestly, as bad as some people act I just don't see a solution to it. Patrick mentions that merely pointing at it doesn't solve it, yet that is exactly what this article does. Which is precisely the point, I don't see a solution to it, ever. At least not if we want the anonymity of the internet to remain. People have always been horrible.

This article may do little to nothing to solve the problem, but maintaining a dismissive attitude towards this type of harassment is what enables it to grow.

On a side note, the internet will lose it's anonymity in time, regardless of whether or not 'we' want it too. Well, that is, unless the people of the internet learn to control themselves. As you've mentioned though, people have always been horrible.

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Ooame

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I for one welcome our new social justice warrior overlords.

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Pepipopa

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@animasta said:

@skankinpacman said:

This is a bit off topic but I find it super interesting the the people who are saying things like "y is dis on gb? patrick you suck." Are not subscribers of the site and the people actually wanting to engage in a discussion are. Not saying that all non-subs are ignorant jerks, but it feels like the majority are.

Anyways, great article Patrick.

Oh boy, am I one of the good ones!?

(try replacing the word non-subs with black or gay people, it's fun!)

Some people don't actually have the money to buy premium, you know?

Why don't you agree with what are yo supposed to. Get hip with it you dirty pleb. I for one agree with the lower class citizen like animasta here. Sorry to break the trend.

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Pepipopa

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@meatball said:

This honestly seems like a really weak excuse for Patrick to jump on his soapbox and I just can't help but roll my eyes. It's not even a subject that isn't worthy of being discussed, but this just doesn't seem like a situation where you need to bust out the "SHAME, INTERNET!!! SHAME!!!!!" Instead of feeling the gravity of these issues I'm simply feeling annoyed and bemused.

Obviously, as pointed out in this piece, I'm part of the problem and a terrible person, because I simply don't believe a bunch of tweets along the lines of "REMOVE FLAPPY BIRD AND I'LL KILL U/MYSELF!!!!1!" are a huge deal. I even find it amusing that Dong Nguyen's decision was twisted into an excuse to make ashamed glares at the internet from highhorses only for the man himself to claim the reason for his decision was entirely different!

Giant Bomb used to be a website that was really fun to visit, now it seems like the majority of the content is either boring or worse, preachy. Lately it seems like the website just no longer provides the content that used to be so entertaining outside of the bombcast. I've been a fan of Patrick's work, even reaching back to his time at G4 (I was super hyped when he joined Giant Bomb) but honestly, somewhere since his move to Chicago I've gradually found the majority of Patrick's work unbearable.

And, honestly, the internet can be a super shitty place, people can be terrible, but dear god I hope we don't wind up with some sort of internet Nanny state where every little word that isn't about rainbows or butterflies is labelled a travesty.

Reading what you wrote you express what I feel much better than I can with my 2nd rate English. Thank you Sir.

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yutt

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Edited By yutt

@tesla: Yeah, it is horrible that meek people have a place they feel like they have a voice without threat of physically violence.

It is hilarious/disturbing to me that so many of the arguments in any Internet discussion on this topic from Team Empathy boil down to, "It would be nice if people were afraid to give their honest thoughts out of fear of being beaten by people physically stronger than them."

I feel like you guys would be first to roll out the stockades given the chance.

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Dunchad

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Hear, hear.

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natdog

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Edited By natdog

"And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the voice of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness." -Alcuin of York

Even in 768, they were talking about how people speaking as a mass can get vitriolic. It's a problem as old as time itself.

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SpicyRichter

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The internet is a magnifying glass to the worlds anger and hubris - stories like this make me hate the internet and by extension the world.... even more

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Rasgueado

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I know that people love to say 'sticks and stones' but words affect everyone differently. It would be amazing if everyone could understand and endure, but the people who are the subject of abuse shouldn't have a greater burden or responsibility than the abuser. We as a society have, for years, only provided accolades to the few individuals that have the tools or ability to stand up for themselves. That minority of people living the fantasy that violent reciprocity was the cure for their ills. While it happens, it isn't as widespread as people would like to think. It just isn't.

What happens to the people that cause the abuse? We as a society don't come down on these people as hard as we do on the victim. Shoving them along with the supposedly reassuring words that they should keep their chin up. Everything will be ok. The odds are against them... the damage can take years to show itself, but make no mistake the scars are there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltun92DfnPY

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yutt

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Let's not beat around the bush, you guys hate people. You hate most human beings. That's what this boils down to. If we flawed humans operate ever so slightly outside of the rules you have decided we should, we're essentially sub-human to you. Something akin to animals.

So, what you frame as a desire for "empathy and kindness" is actually just the PR friendly version of your hatred of other people and how we don't meet your standards of perfections.

You're right though, this is an old problem, you guys are proposing old solutions.

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mr_otas

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Edited By mr_otas

@likeassur

@rusalkagirl said:

Not to be confrontational or anything, but if their tweets are public to begin with, what's the difference? Anyone can see them, and easily, whether or not they're published in an article. If the messages were originally private, that would be a whole other can of worms.

And I think someone else said this, but having a mental illness does not make death threats acceptable. Patrick pointing out that they are telling people to kill themselves is not on the same level as someone actually telling someone to kill themselves. I don't think that he wanted to shame anyone by calling out actions he disagreed with. However, if there were no examples of what the article was about, the whole thing would be a moot point.

First I want to say that a mental illness is no excuse to behave like an asshole, and I made no attempts to defend these people on grounds of their possible mental status. It may have seemed like that in my previous post, and I just wanted to clarify that this isn't the case.

These tweets are indeed open to the public, but I am merely questioning why these particular individuals are of certain interest. Why expose this selected group any more than anyone else that made threats towards Nguyen? Where these specific tweets extra bad? Have they been charged with a crime in connection to this affair? If not, then why would their usernames be of interest to me as a reader?

Exposing their identities adds nothing av particular value to this article, and may even end up instigating a behavior, similar to what this article criticizes, to be directed towards these individuals. Do we really want to give the mob an opening to decide what is a just cause of action? I doubt that this is what Patrick intended.

Edit: This is a tweet from one of the exposed users:

[...] i'm surprised by how much feed back and death threats i am receiving now

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darkdragonmage99

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I've been beaten to an inch of my life and i can honestly tell you I'd put up with everything that man took for $50,000 daily fuck i'd do it for half. I put up with worse for nothing so why wouldn't I be willing to do it while making me filthy fucking rich.

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darkdragonmage99

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@rasgueado: I understand abuse all to well but you know what sticks and stones if words is the worst you've ever had to worry about count yourself lucky this pity party shit just pisses me off. I've been hit with baseball bats and smacked up side the head with bricks these people crying because their feelings got hurt are just pathetic.

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Rasgueado

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@darkdragonmage99: It's not pity party shit. Invalidating one person's abuse over someone else's is ridiculous. While you've been hit with baseball bats (I've only had golf clubs and hockey sticks so... I guess I should apologize for not being as bad as yours), other kids across the world get hit with bullets and machete's. This ranking of abuse helps no one.

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LikeaSsur

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@mr_otas: I would wager to bet that, just like a scientific experiment, they were randomly picked. And as much crap as the Internet gets for being a hivemind and being vitriolic, it really is a universal equalizer. Regardless of who you are or what you're about, if you screw up, the Internet will tear you down and rip you apart.

We just have to find a way to use that force for good (shutting up those who would threaten others) rather than evil (threatening others with no consequences).

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mr_otas

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@darkdragonmage99: It may seem pathetic, that is until you take into account the countless types of mental disorders that could make a human more sensitive to verbal abuse. Your words could be the sticks and stones to their mental stability.

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Edited By nERVEcenter

@satch919: Views on game-related content pay progressive journalists. That's to say, the ad revenue CBS pulls from my views on Quick Looks and GOTY stuff goes partly into Patrick's pocket to keep him onboard for more progressive social-action content.

Stuff not getting views is not a guarantee that it doesn't get made. I'm sure Jeff would keep him on board because at least some of the Giant Bomb userbase appreciates this content. But they risk losing me, for good, on ALL content. I'll just avoid the issue entirely, as I suggested in my post.

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Edited By mr_otas

@likeassur: What is the difference between "good" and "bad" death threats? As far as I am concerned, they are all bad, and possibly even illegal.

Again. Should we really let the mob decide what is a just cause of action? And how are their identities of interest to me as a reader? Would it diminish the quality of this article if their usernames were censored? I think not.

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Edited By aldo_q

Really good article Patrick! While it's been a long time now (over 10 or 13 years) when the Internet was still a lot less social media and it never was at a scale like this I myself experienced this also. Running a -what back then- was a pretty large music website some people decided that the opinions on the site where not exactly inline with their musical-taste and started a campaign of terror against me that went from death-threats to posting on other website 'as me' insulting others in the hope of getting other people and bands setup against me. Which worked quite well.

I still have no contact with some friends from back then and I even saw some people on that website to this day still think that 'I am pulling the strings' and I really am 'person x' on the forums, while I've perhaps visited that website 4 times in the last 10+ years without even having an account there anymore. Like I've become some soft of virtual boogeyman, forgetting I'm actually a real person. Stuff can linger... and it can hurt. Even if it's all just 'digital'.

And all this was before 'web 2.0', before the huge internet explosion and social media, etc. Now it's just much, much worse..

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deactivated-5aeccee38cdf9

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I don't see the problem with a game website branching out and covering more issues surrounding games as a whole. Tons of other industries do it. Content like this should help create a discussion within the medium without outright dismissing it.

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mr_otas

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@rasgueado: Good point. Suffering can not be quantified, and all attempts to do so are misguided and of no practical purpose.

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@mr_otas said:

@likeassur: What is the difference between "good" and "bad" death threats? As far as I am concerned, they are all bad, and possibly even illegal.

Again. Should we really let the mob decide what is a just cause of action? And how are their identities of interest to me as a reader? Would it diminish the quality of this article if their usernames were censored? I think not.

I don't know what you mean by "good" and "bad" death threats. I never mentioned anything like that.

Yes, I do think the Internet mob should decide what is just, because as you've seen, it's a powerful force. The only thing that needs changing are the rules it goes by, because that's not perfect. The identities are probably necessary in my opinion. If you don't have a name, it just depersonalizes it even further. The thing you need to drive home in articles like this is yes, these are actual human beings, with a mother and father, that typed things like this.

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Edited By yutt

@jedo: Not to mention you'd be destroying an essential freedom for anonymous political dissenters with real problems throughout the world just to try to keep your own precious, sheltered, first-world feelings from being hurt.

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stunik101

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Edited By stunik101

Well said Patrick...

people should treat each other with respect as they would in real life (apart from drivers in the UK who also treat each other with vitriol and hate)

I guess hiding behind a computer screen is similar to being cocooned in your own car it somehow gives people confidence to treat each other shittily.

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mr_otas

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Edited By mr_otas

@likeassur

Yes, I do think the Internet mob should decide what is just, because as you've seen, it's a powerful force.

I personally would like legal institutions to exact just punishment. A mob results in high amounts of collateral damage due to the mobs inability organize -- largely caused by lack of clear leadership and structure -- and it's tendency to act before anything can be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

The thing you need to drive home in articles like this is yes, these are actual human beings, with a mother and father, that typed things like this.

Is it really worth risking the safety and well being of these individuals to simply make a point? The article had the proper impact on me, even though I didn't realize that the picture was uncensored until it was pointed out to me by another user.

I will firmly insist that exposing these individuals ads nothing of value to neither this article, nor to the discussion of internet empathy at large. Exposing these humans, who have not been convicted of any crimes, and of which some are minors, is fundamentally wrong.

Again. Here is an actual tweet from one of the exposed users:

[...] i'm surprised by how much feed back and death threats i am receiving now

Would you say that this article had the intended effect?

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LikeaSsur

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Edited By LikeaSsur

I personally would like legal institutions to exact just punishment. A mob results in high amounts of collateral damage due to the mobs inability organize -- due to the lack of clear leadership and structure -- and it's tendency to act before anything can be proven.

That would work in a utopia, but this is not a utopia. America obviously doesn't prosecute those who make death threats over Twitter (and this isn't even touching the issue of time, money, and prison overcrowding). If we could regulate each other, legal institutions wouldn't need to get involved. Also, what more needs to be proven? If you tell someone you're going to kill them, that's a death threat, plain and simple, black-and-white.

Is it really worth risking the safety and well being of these individuals to simply make a point? The article had the proper impact on me, even though I didn't realize that the picture was uncensored until it was pointed out to me by another user.

I will firmly insist that exposing these individuals ads nothing of value to neither this article, nor to the discussion of internet empathy at large. Exposing these humans, who have not been convicted of any crimes, and of which some are minors, is fundamentally wrong.

I think what Patrick said fits here: To not acknowledge them is to tell them that they can say whatever they want with absolutely no fear of consequences. Attaching their names to what they've said to a pretty popular news article shows that there is consequences and you can be found out. They are not anonymous, and they need to realize that.

As for their safety being put in question, that's where my previous point comes in of us needing a moral fixing. We shouldn't fight fire with fire.

Again. Here is an actual tweet from one of the exposed users:

[...] i'm surprised by how much feed back and death threats i am receiving now

Would you say that this article had the intended effect?

Again, I'm not saying we should fight fire with fire, so this was a bad way to go about it, BUT if this person reconsiders the next time they say such a thing to another human, then is that not a victory?

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Edited By Tesla

@yutt: If your "honest thoughts" boil down to nothing more than death threats and slanderous comments that you would never say to someone in real life, you're a coward in addition to being an asshole.

That's what this is about, I never said people offering constructive negative criticism should be beaten. Nor did I say these assholes making death threats should be beaten. I was simply making an observation about the nature of someone who feels the need to be an asshole because they can get away with it. Not only that, but I offered the qualifier "tend to be" because there are exceptions to every rule.

I have no idea about all this nonsense regarding stockades and "Team Empathy" you're going on about. My position on the matter is simply treat others the way you would like to be treated, even if your interaction occurs on the internet. I feel like your reading comprehension of my post was poor, as you put quite a few words in my mouth.

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yutt

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Edited By yutt

@tesla: I never defended death threats, they're childish, most likely because they are literally being made by children. They are also illegal, so that discussion is moot. If you want to prosecute children, contact law enforcement, don't whine about persecution in a video game forum. I've already stated that.

What this is really about, because the scope of the discussion is far beyond wanting to prevent death threats which are already illegal from being made illegal, is policing what people who disagree or offend you are allowed to say.

While, of course, preserving your right to call them cowards and assholes. They obviously deserve to be called those things, because you decided it, and are the arbiter of justice.

I have no idea about all this nonsense regarding stockades and "Team Empathy" you're going on about. My position on the matter is simply treat others the way you would like to be treated, even if your interaction occurs on the internet.

You describe exactly what I'm "on about" while claiming not to understand what it is...

Wanting that to happen and trying to cause it to happen are completely different discussions. I already explained how to help improve the situation. It involves fixing human culture globally. I assume you're working on that.

The alternative is Internet thought police, and/or the destruction of anonymity. You guys love to constantly claim there should be a solution to the problem, but never ever suggest how. That is because there is no how that isn't ludicrous in scope or incredibly destructive to human culture and freedom globally.

You want big solutions to small problems, and you are apathetic to what will be destroyed in the process.

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Tesla

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Edited By Tesla

@yutt: Again, poor reading comprehension.

Point me to where I mention the desire to prosecute children, whined about persecution, or mentioned the need to police what people say on the internet. Please tell me where I said anything about individual rights and why they should be restricted.

I'm calling hypothetical people who make death threats cowards and assholes. This does not compare to threats aimed at a specific individual. And even if it did, I never said they should be forced to stop by some governing body. I simply think they're assholes.

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happymeowmeow

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Edited By happymeowmeow

Great article. For the record, I love the whole GB crew but the bulk of the content I find myself watching has been produced by Patrick.

Not sure there is any fixing to the cause of this problem...that is how easy it is to discard empathy in any mass setting that offers anonymity. My gut reaction remains the same as when I watched your Ted talk, that it seems more practical to approach this from the technical side; take a real approach towards moderation, that is,be willing to spend money and develop your software with moderation in mind. This might be inevitable as social media develops...keep in mind this tech is pretty much in its infancy right now.

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spraynardtatum

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@jedo said:

The moment it becomes possible for people online to be punished in real life for online threats is the moment you will realise just how much the benefits of that protection are outweighed by the freedom you will have lost.

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mr_otas

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@likeassur

Also, what more needs to be proven? If you tell someone you're going to kill them, that's a death threat, plain and simple, black-and-white.

A user account is not "black-and-white" evidence, and further proves my point about mobs and collateral damage.

As for their safety being put in question, that's where my previous point comes in of us needing a moral fixing. We shouldn't fight fire with fire.

A moral fix can not be delivered by a vigilant, and anonymous internet mob. Moral values are largely inherited from our parents, peers and environment. What you are talking about are information campaigns, aimed at raising awareness of this issue. This article does this exceptionally, even without randomly pointing at specific individuals, of which some are minors.

Again, I'm not saying we should fight fire with fire, so this was a bad way to go about it, BUT if this person reconsiders the next time they say such a thing to another human, then is that not a victory?

Let us imagine for a moment that all these ten exposed individuals have changed their ways. Now think about the amount of resources that went into this victory. Patrick spent a lot of time and energy to achieve this. Is this what his efforts amounts to? To change ten humans out of a thousand? This would be the very definition of a Pyrrhic victory. Why not expose everyone if this was the intended strategy? Why such a waste of resources to achieve victory over ten, when he could have sent the mob marching towards a bigger and more valuable target? Why not also try and change the other 990 individuals?

And this particular person doesn't think she did anything wrong. She is angry that people don't get that she was joking. This doesn't sound like someone who has seen the light to me...

Social victories are not won by targeting individuals. It is won by targeting and challenging core values. Take a look at the civil rights movement as an example. Take the usernames out of the picture, and shift focus back at the grander goal.

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EternalGamer2

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Edited By EternalGamer2

The progression of this entire article and Patrick's comments on this issue here and on Twitter have really been a bummer for me. I love Patrick's willingness to try new games and his amazing work ethic. I actually defended him several times against people in the Dark Souls chat and in conversations among friends who said they disliked how cocky and smarmy he was. I told them it was just an act that he enjoyed playing just like a rapper or a wrestler. Viewed from the right perspective someone who "plays" that sort of role can be just as fun as someone who plays up their incompetence (like Woody Allen or Jeff Green).

I even strongly agree with his political alignment and defending him on those grounds many times. But it has also become painfully clear to me over the course of the last month or so that Patrick has a pretty big ego to feed and it craves attention and controversy. Elsewise he would actually be willing to discuss the many, many complex issues posters have brought up in these comments about how to view these fly by statements. And I mean there are dozens of really smart posts of response that he basically chose to ignore. Instead he continues to grandstand on Twitter about how he won't back down and to pontificate about why he chooses to be a defender against trolls.

People make emotional fly by night statements. Everyone does. Even Patrick has admitted that he has himself has fallen pray to emotional impulse on social media. But Patrick wants to use these emotional fly by comments to turn himself into the Batman of the internet defending the weak and dis-empowered. It's pretty crappy and psychologically insincere even if his ego has convinced itself that's not what he is doing. After all being a punk rock hero that is fighting a world of injustice is much more fun than being a considerate thoughtful person that recognizes the complexities of the world in which we live for what they are.

This very article is very good evidence of his attempt to use other people to put himself on a high and mighty platform. The dude who created Flappy Bird does not reference internet bullying as the motivation for pulling down his game. Period. Yet Patrick still uses the dude and his situation as his jumping off point to justify both his article and his attempt to be the great vindicator for the Flappy Bird creator and others.

Patrick is a really smart dude and when it comes to videogame tastes, a really open minded guy (which unfortunately he will point out every time he is given the chance). I just wish he wasn't so egotistical and arrogant and was willing to really listen to dissenting voices. I don't at all think it's intentional and it's very possible I was the same way at his age (and I really don't mean that as an insult--I know from experience that age has a way of mellowing us and making us more at ease with the world and those around us with differing views). I just kind of hope he grows out of it and becomes comfortable enough in his own skin to stop stonewalling opposition and grandstanding cultural and political platforms everytime he gets the chance. I'm about as liberal as they come (Hell, I'm a gay English professor who teaches Renaissance literature and thinks Marx is unjustly vilified and capitalism is broken for Christ sake) and it's even really annoying to me. I can't imagine how more conservative visitors to the site feel. I guess the best I can hope for is that he'll look back on his cultural warrior pieces ten years from now and kind of shake his head at the cocksure naivete.

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skunkdragon

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Edited By skunkdragon

It's the same reason why I turn voice chat off in every multiplayer game I play.

I hear that Brother!

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yutt

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Edited By yutt

@tesla: Again, poor reading comprehension.

I've no interest in having a discussion with someone who is going to try to belittle me while ignoring the content of my posts.

My position on the matter is simply treat others the way you would like to be treated, even if your interaction occurs on the internet. I feel like your reading comprehension of my post was poor, as you put quite a few words in my mouth.

You're the asshole you claim you're trying to remove from the world. How about you work on fixing yourself? I'm sure it is hard to see your own flaws as high above the rest of us as you are, but you should probably start trying.

Your passive-aggressiveness and demeaning me isn't "kind" and it sure isn't "how I want to be treated". It is a way for you to make yourself feel superior to me. My literacy level is well represented in my posts here. I certainly have no problem with "reading comprehension". Please keep your petty insults to yourself.

EternalGamer2: I'm about as liberal as they come (Hell, I'm a gay English professor who teaches Renaissance literature and thinks Marx is unjustly vilified and capitalism is broken for Christ sake) and it's even really annoying to me. I can't imagine how more conservative visitors to the site feel.

Precisely! I am as politically liberal as someone from the Midwest can be, and I am constantly bewildered by the positions of people in these discussions. A libertarian or other conservative wouldn't even have a personal baseline to start to understand any of this from. I know vilifying 99% of humanity, while claiming to be working to help everyone, is normal in these discussions, but the lecturing needs to be reined in.

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PimblyCharles

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I remember when this used to be a site about video games.

But then we wouldn't have in depth looks at important stuff like Steam-umms

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EternalGamer2

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Edited By EternalGamer2

@yutt said:

Precisely! I am as politically liberal as someone from the Midwest can be, and I am constantly bewildered by the positions of people in these discussions. A libertarian or other conservative wouldn't even have a personal baseline to start to understand any of this from. I know vilifying 99% of humanity, while claiming to be working to help everyone, is normal in these discussions, but the lecturing needs to be reined in.

Soapboxing and grandstanding is equally bad on each side of the political aisle. And unfortunately it's seeped into discourse that isn't even overtly political. It's the most shallow form of cultural or political discourse to play the "Aint it awful" game. And it makes you feel immediately superior to the "awful" behavior you are pontificating on.

Since the so called internet bullies are really just all of us in our emotional knee jerk moments here are some real ways address the problem that don't involve just ridiculing and vilifying people who have knee jerk emotional responses:

1) Address the person who made the off handed comment sincerely. "Hey man, I'd like to know why you are so pissed about ____. I just think <insert reasons you think the way you do.>." For probably the vast majority of the human race when you respond to vitriol with a sincere inquiry, they'll probably immediately tone down the rhetoric.

2) If they don't turn down the rhetoric and continue to berate you, be willing to laugh it off even if it means laughing at yourself. Betty White is a pretty funny lady. I have to imagine when she read that Tweet Bill Maher put on the screen of a random Twitter user asking her "You dead yet bitch?" she probably laughed out loud. Don't take yourself and so seriously. And if someone else doesn't want to have a sincere conversation, then be willing to laugh it off along with them. The one thing that pretty much nobody likes is someone without a sense of humor who always takes themselves way too seriously.

The basic problem when someone on the internet says something mean to you is that they see you as a douche. You can do various things to make them not see you that way from being sincere to being self deprecating. But lecturing them about the discourse they use or berating them for it isn't ever going to accomplish anything other than making you seem like an even bigger douche. I don't understand what is so hard about this. It seems like common sense to me. If you start lecturing somebody about their behavior they are only going to dislike you more. Learn to deal instead or unplug and walk away.

Patrick's solution meanwhile seems to be that you should call everyone out for their language. The only thing this would ever accomplish is giving you more of sense of (undeserved) superiority and making them think you are an even bigger douche. It wouldn't stop negative rhetoric. It would just make the world even more unbearable because in addition to dealing with people who get overly emotional and use charged language, we'd also have to deal with a similarly huge number of pretentious pricks who want to go around lecturing them. The very idea of that kind of society makes me want to blow my head off.

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Tesla

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@yutt: Yet again, poor reading comprehension. Please tell me where I said I would like to remove anyone from the world? I notice you didn't address my previous questions where I asked you to cite me stating the opinions you claim that I hold, so you probably won't bother doing it this time.

Please note that reading comprehension is different than intelligence or literacy. I'm not sure what else to call it when you repeatedly tell me I'm saying things that I am not saying.

Anyway, you seem to be on some kind of crusade so I'll leave you to it. I apologize if I offended you in any way, have a pleasant evening.

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darkdragonmage99

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@mr_otas: I'm bi polar autism and schizophrenia runs in the family try me words still ain't got shit on real violence no where close. @rasgueado: That's my point exactly people complaining about their feelings getting hurt while people are still being crippled and killed is exactly what i said pathetic. First world problems at their finest we haven't ended real violence yet but we try and equate being harassed as the worst thing that could happen to you . It's not the same thing and never will be words will only hurt if you let them bricks on the other hand that hurt no matter what you do.

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Landmine

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@yutt: I went to your profile and read all of your posts, and I suggest you do the same. You were at one point contributing to the discussion of the overall topic, whether people agree or disagree with you is another matter. What was once contribution on your part quickly turned into attacking, and name calling. Hence making you an example of exactly what you were discussing.

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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@brodehouse said:

You should actually try talking to some police officers and some rights advocates before you begin pontificating about how an authority figure should be in charge of making sure nothing mean ever gets said.

It is not "we can't do anything so why try". Stop mischaracterizing the argument for your own benefit. It's "the legislation you're calling for would cause undue harm in ways you aren't taking into consideration". It's not that it's hopeless so why try, it's that the things we would have to do to make it so no one is ever made to feel bad in life would cause problems in ways you don't care about, so those problems don't exist in your mind. Your "combination of legal, technological, and societal changes" amounts to "wave a wand and make everything better". The reason those changes don't get made is because they come with drawbacks that no one wants to suffer under. You just refuse to see any potential drawbacks because you don't believe there are any, and you don't believe you will ever be subject to them.

They remind me of a combination of legal, technological and societal changes designed in order to stop terrorism. It sounded completely logical and sensible and reasonable to everyone at the time, because they didn't care about the drawbacks. Now the drawbacks are here and people complain. Or that combination of legal, technological and societal changes designed to root out drug users and arrest them, thereby protecting everyone from the evils of drugs. It sounded completely logical and sensible and reasonable to everyone at the time, it was to improve everyone's social welfare and they couldn't imagine there were drawbacks. And how could anyone argue with them? After all, you wouldn't argue with the War on Drugs unless you were a drug dealer, right? You wouldn't argue with the Patriot Act unless you were a terrorist, right? Clearly if anyone argues against your legal, technological and societal changes then they must be bullies and part of the problem and better off thrown in prison.

I quote this primarily because I feel it deserves it be read more than it seems like it was.

There is a profound lack of awareness and foresight in a lot of the statements on how evil "The Internet" is. This is exactly why I have issues with articles like this that do little more than whip people into a frenzy; it reminds me too much of what cable news does. Everyone gets into a frenzy over how evil and awful something is, they get too close and lose perspective, and then start suggesting things that would do serious social harm only because they sound like satisfying and concrete solutions in the heat of the moment. They make people think part of society is irreparably broken, and that danger lurks around every corner, when it's not, and it doesn't.

This issue needs less soapboxing, self-aggrandizement, or political calls-to-arms, and a whole lot more humility, diplomacy, and perspective. I'm sure this article made Patrick feel really good about what he was doing, that this was really his excellent deed for the week, but there's nothing here except more shaming. Shaming that the offenders in question will not be at all affected by. The true solutions to this problem, like most problems, are far less satisfying and far less simple than people think. This isn't "us vs. them." Certain people in this "debate" are just talking right past people, instead of with people.

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mr_otas

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@darkdragonmage99

I'm bi polar autism and schizophrenia runs in the family try me words still ain't got shit on real violence no where close.

Your experiences doesn't apply to everyone, but I'm glad it's not getting in the way of your life.

Science, however, does not agree with you in that mere threats and insults can't cause real mental harm. And to downplay mental illness, and to belittle those who suffer from it, is a sign of either lack of knowledge on the subject, or ignorance. If our behaviors and emotions are governed by our brain, then what happens when it breaks? And what happens if you apply more pressure on an already overloaded system? What happens if you nudge someone that's already standing far to close to the edge?

You also don't seem to show any signs of being willing to carry out a discussion based on mutual understanding and open mindedness. Your constant attempts at quantifying and comparing different types of suffering shows this. Suffering is subjective, not objective, and can therefore not be absolutely defined or ranked.

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darkdragonmage99

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Edited By darkdragonmage99

@mr_otas: Easy enough they stab the asshole who's doing it and don't feel guilty about it even 20 years later . Personal experience goes a long way when you have experience the people you are talking to don't. we are discussing something I'm personally experienced in I don't need some bunk study to tell me what happens. I don't need some doctor trying to tell me that being beaten and being harassed do the same thing to you they don't I know they don't because I've had them both done to me.

I don't seem like i'm interested in a discussion with mutual understanding because we don't have one I understand you do not I've been there and done that you have not or so it seems.

Empathy can go a long way but it will never equal true understanding you have to have first hand experience for that I down play mental illness because to me it's not a big deal i'm mentally ill and it's not a big deal I understand mental illness been there done that. understand the last thing people like me want is your fucking pity or be treated any differently then anyone else. You want to understand what happens to someone who is pushed over the edge read the first sentence it's not a arbitrary statement I never got past the 7th grade for a reason.

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thegroveman

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Great article, Patrick. A lot of attention gets paid to the victims of internet-based bullying and hazing, but there are also other victims: those who simply associate with people that perpetuate that behavior. The past couple of years I have been withdrawing from a lot of internet gaming and social media because even though the culture doesn't bother me outwardly, I have seen myself using language and treating people differently because of that association. Now that I have young children, I avoid games like DOTA because I don't want to absorb that vulgarity and subconsciously introduce it to my family.

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AMonkey

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This has nothing to do with GiantBomb. Post it on your personal blog Patrick.