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Worth Reading: 01/25/13

A short week comes to a close with your usual dose of weird games you ought to play, articles you might want to read, and plenty of other nonsense.

No Caption Provided

Wild week, huh?

I didn’t plan for back-to-back features on zombies, that’s the way it worked out. I also don’t usually publish an article separate from Worth Reading on a Friday in an effort to cleanly spread that material out. Thankfully, my ability to outsource a rough draft of my interview transcripts (I always double check ‘em) means I’m able to turn around features much faster than ever before, and this reflects that. I’ve already got a few that should be out the door next week.

“Eight Women, Eight Responses, and One Dead Island Riptide Statue” generated quite the firestorm, which anyone could have predicted that a mile away. When a story generates a forum thread before it’s even gone live, it’s going to provoke a reaction. Hopefully, my commitment to spend 30 minutes responding in the comments was worthwhile, as I’d like to do that more often, even for features that aren’t going to explode. With my ZombiU feature, for example, there was plenty of material that didn’t make it into the piece, and that's a place where I reveal more than what was published.

Many of you suggested some feature ideas last week, too, and I’ve taken notes. Someone proposed a look into the speedrun community. It reminded me how I went down really deep down that rabbit hole an afternoon at the office, and never followed up. There's something really compelling about watching people straight up break games.

All that said, let’s turn down the heat a bit and enjoy the weekend. See you guys next week!

Hey, You Should Play This

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The first time someone told me “hey, pay attention to the games Adult Swim is producing on its website,” it was hard to take them seriously. Then, you start running down the seriously bizarre, interesting, and seriously fun list of games (full list here) they’ve commissioned, and it’s a different story. It's...crazy. Westerado is one of the more ambitious games I’ve seen Adult Swim commission, an overhead, relatively open world 2D western action game. Our expectations for what is possible with web games grows every single day, and Westerado is a game I’ll be returning to over the weekend. Great visuals, fun soundtrack, weird story, and a lovable ability to pull a gun on anyone.

And You Should Read This, Too

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It’s over for THQ as a publisher, and it’s hard to imagine how much of that is Jason Rubin’s fault. It was just too late. The now former THQ president has only given a single interview about his tenure at THQ since the asset sale took place this week, and while the interview is hardly exhaustive, you get the sense Rubin truly does regret what happened with Vigil Games. Darksiders II was not the hit THQ needed to financially stand on its own, and Vigil Games was years away from releasing a new game. The other studios and franchises picked up in the sale had games ready to roll, while purchasing Vigil would be purchasing potential. Here’s hoping folks land on their feet.

The best example of this is Vigil’s title, codenamed Crawler. When the teams got together recently to show each other their titles, Crawler dropped the most jaws. It is a fantastic idea, and truly unique. The fact that nobody bid for the team and title is a travesty. It makes no sense to me. If I weren’t barred from bidding as an insider, I would have been there with my checkbook. I’m sure that’s little consolation to the team, but that’s a fact.
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The media is, too often, laser focused on what’s ahead. There are plenty of reasons for that. One, the audience is also excited about what’s ahead. Two, the relationship between game publishers and media is one that necessitates talking about what’s ahead. Three, there’s more potential in generating traffic for what people are interested in right now. But there’s so much for us to learn about what’s already happened, and I’m really curious to see how Jeremy Parish’s “Anatomy of a Game” project pans out, in which he’s dissecting tons of old games stage-by-stage.

The seventh block along Castlevania III‘s alternate path brings us to the end of Sypha’s route, and the game marks your arrival at Castlevania proper by swapping out the standard regional map for a castle floor plan patterned after the first game’s stage map. In case you had forgotten about the way the journey diverged several levels back, the new map shows hints, partially obscured, of a route down beneath the castle. “You’ve missed something,” it declares. Another neat detail to nudge the player to explore the game in greater depth.

If You Click It, It Will Play

Kickstarter Has Promise, And Hopefully Developers Don't Screw It Up

Yeah, Greenlight Still Has Issues, But Some Games Look Pretty Cool

  • Rocketgirl just might be the most absurd thing I've seen on Greenlight so far (in a good way).
  • BoneTown just might be the most absurd thing I've seen on Greenlight so far (in a bad way).
  • And Project Temporality just looks cool.

Patrick's Watching TED Talks As Part of a New Years Resolution, So Here You Go

Oh, And This Other Stuff

Patrick Klepek on Google+

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cannonballbam

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Edited By cannonballbam

@WMWA said:

@Milkman
@jimmyfenix said:
I really like these articles alot! , in my opinion the artcles such as 1reasonwhy and the dead island statue dont really fit with the core giantbomb audience , i know you feel strongly about these things patrick but in my opinion it just doesnt fit
There's a difference between not fitting with you and not fitting with this "core audience" that you invented.

Keep writing them, Patrick.
Word

I agree, keep it up patrick.

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Nettacki

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Edited By Nettacki

@FloppyDog: Tell me what the "unique perspective to GB that's rare in video game journalism" happens to be. If it's about the sexism thing, I'll have you know that there's about 20 other journalists parroting the same thing.

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alsepht

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Edited By alsepht

Dear Patrick, Rocketgirl is an XBLIG. That's all.

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FloppyDog

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Edited By FloppyDog

@Neon25 said:

@bko said:

@jimmyfenix said:

I really like these articles alot! , in my opinion the artcles such as 1reasonwhy and the dead island statue dont really fit with the core giantbomb audience , i know you feel strongly about these things patrick but in my opinion it just doesnt fit

No one cares. Start your own website if you want to be protected from stories that require a little maturity.

Stories from a man that is proud of the fact he smuggles beers into cinemas like an asshole and makes sure to mention it on every possible occasion.

So instead of trying to have a civil discussion, you attack the man and not the position? I know it is easy to do that in the heat of the moment but.....don't do that. It just perpetuates angry feelings and doesn't move the discussion forward.

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FloppyDog

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Edited By FloppyDog

There is such a ridiculous anti-Patrick faction in the GB community that is kinda insane. So many people who are jumping on him about his praise RocketGirl are participating in the one upsmanship that exists too often in the internet. Everybody is dying to be right. Patrick brings a very unique perspective to GB that is very rare in video game journalism. In fact, I think he is one of the few people in video game reporting that tries to do any level of journalism and I hope he continues.

Now, I do think Patrick is a bit wrong about saying RocketGirl is ok because it is fun in a ridiculous way. As came up in many Far Cry 3 talks, when you use heavily used tropes to parody those same heavily used tropes is your product in danger you in danger of just being those same rote tropes once again? That was the criticism laid at the feet of the Far Cry 3 writer when he attempted to defend his game and I think that it again fits here. Just watching the RocketGirl trailer made me feel uncomfortable.

The bust is wrong. Plain and simple. When I first saw it, I thought it was extremely gross. Just the idea of anybody wanting to own a torso with no head and limbs made me a bit queasy. Only afterward did I realize how silly of a product it was with it perfect boobs, tiny waist, all in a bikini. It is a sexist product but outside of that sexism, it is still abhorrent. There shouldn't be any debate on that.

Patrick, I love your "worth reading" articles. I hope you never stop writing them.

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Missacre

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Edited By Missacre

So it seems like the sexism talk moved over here, eh?

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Evercaptor

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Edited By Evercaptor

@bunnymud said:

Is Patrick the only person who writes articles on this site anymore?

Yep; it's why they hired him and Alex.

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Carousel

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Edited By Carousel

@mdnthrvst: You're being a real silly goose.

@Neon25: Watch out man, I'll jukebox troll you while I drink some PBR.

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Neon25

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@bko said:

@jimmyfenix said:

I really like these articles alot! , in my opinion the artcles such as 1reasonwhy and the dead island statue dont really fit with the core giantbomb audience , i know you feel strongly about these things patrick but in my opinion it just doesnt fit

No one cares. Start your own website if you want to be protected from stories that require a little maturity.

Stories from a man that is proud of the fact he smuggles beers into cinemas like an asshole and makes sure to mention it on every possible occasion.

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Nettacki

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Edited By Nettacki

I'll say that the interview with Jason Rubin was indeed a worthy read. Especially coming from a rather passionate guy.

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bunnymud

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Edited By bunnymud

Is Patrick the only person who writes articles on this site anymore?

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bko

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Edited By bko

@MMann said:

@bko said:

@jimmyfenix said:

I really like these articles alot! , in my opinion the artcles such as 1reasonwhy and the dead island statue dont really fit with the core giantbomb audience , i know you feel strongly about these things patrick but in my opinion it just doesnt fit

No one cares. Start your own website if you want to be protected from stories that require a little maturity.

That's kind of a silly thing to say, and it's pretty hostile.

Those sorts of articles are pretty new, in the grand scheme of GiantBombs history at least, and not everyone is going to like them - especially since P.Klep can be a bit sloppy or hamhanded with them at times.

I like those articles, I'm glad they're here, and I really get tired of the people who troll through the comments to complain about them without adding anything of worth - but just screaming GET OUT at everyone who (in this case rationally and seemingly politely, even) disagrees will just make people think less of you, and maybe even of the causes/articles you support.

Considering how irrational most of this community is with regard to disliking perfectly well-spoken people like Patrick, I don't really care if anyone here thinks less of me. So you're not going to mail me a big box of your old trash? I'll live.

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mdnthrvst

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Edited By mdnthrvst

@Carousel said:

@mdnthrvst: So if a woman is an "under-educated, poorly motivated loser that no one respects" it's not because of her life decisions or choices, it's because she's oppressed?

Also, what about BDSM where a woman is dominating a man? Is that part of a 6,000 year old patriarchy too?

@mdnthrvst said:

no one has second thoughts about respecting me

I guess I'd be the first.

These logical leaps you're making are pretty funny. When did I ever say women can't be irrelevant failures for reasons other than their sex? Oh, right, I didn't, you're just pulling arguments out of thin air.

Yes, plenty of women (as with men) have made bad life choices and ended up in bad situations, not because they have tits but because they're just losers. But many more - more commonly outside the Western world - don't even get that chance to make a life for themselves and fuck it up themselves.

And I guess I probably should've appended "because of my sex" to that respect line, you got me there.

What the hell are you even talking about with regards to BDSM? How is it germane to anything at all whether someone likes femdom or maledom? Seriously, responding to everything I mention just to be contrarian doesn't work when you don't actually have an argument.

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Carousel

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Edited By Carousel

@mdnthrvst: So if a woman is an "under-educated, poorly motivated loser that no one respects" it's not because of her life decisions or choices, it's because she's oppressed?

@mdnthrvst said:

no one has second thoughts about respecting me

I guess I'd be the first.

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MMann

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Edited By MMann

@bko said:

@jimmyfenix said:

I really like these articles alot! , in my opinion the artcles such as 1reasonwhy and the dead island statue dont really fit with the core giantbomb audience , i know you feel strongly about these things patrick but in my opinion it just doesnt fit

No one cares. Start your own website if you want to be protected from stories that require a little maturity.

That's kind of a silly thing to say, and it's pretty hostile.

Those sorts of articles are pretty new, in the grand scheme of GiantBombs history at least, and not everyone is going to like them - especially since P.Klep can be a bit sloppy or hamhanded with them at times.

I like those articles, I'm glad they're here, and I really get tired of the people who troll through the comments to complain about them without adding anything of worth - but just screaming GET OUT at everyone who (in this case rationally and seemingly politely, even) disagrees will just make people think less of you, and maybe even of the causes/articles you support.

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bko

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Edited By bko

@jimmyfenix said:

I really like these articles alot! , in my opinion the artcles such as 1reasonwhy and the dead island statue dont really fit with the core giantbomb audience , i know you feel strongly about these things patrick but in my opinion it just doesnt fit

No one cares. Start your own website if you want to be protected from stories that require a little maturity.

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MMann

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Edited By MMann

@mdnthrvst said:

How many male booth babes - booth dudes? - stand around convention floors in tightly-packed briefs? How many Catherine anime pillowcases or Dead Island zombie-titties feature dudes?

Not enough.

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mdnthrvst

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@Humanity said:

@mdnthrvst: Of course sexism is targeted by a large margin at women and not the other way around. There is no case in trying to disprove this. Just like racism is not something that white people really have to deal with on an average basis. That doesn't mean that sexist acts aren't committed both ways. I agree that someone getting unfairly accused of rape is really shitty, and it is sexist because very often the case automatically becomes one of guilty until proven innocent rather than the other way around. The act of those three girls bullying the boy is not sexist in of itself - it's the inaction against it because it's understood that the boy can handle that situation while a female couldn't that is sexist.

You literally HAVE to fish for examples. I'm not saying there are deeply entrenched sexist problems aimed at men, and I'm not perpetrating that it's an even split. I was simply responding to the comment that "this is just women being assholes no sexism here" which is not true. When you bend the system to your advantage because of your gender then that is a clear example of sexism. It doesn't happen super often, and I'm not going to fear for my life on the street, but it's there and it's ridiculous to say that men are somehow immune to the issue.

Then why is the first thing that anyone does in a conversation about sexism against women raise these trivial and uncommon examples of sexism against men?

Why is changing to conversation to your own less-prominent and unlikely problems necessary? Wasn't this a discussion about women and objectification in the games industry?

How many male booth babes - booth dudes? - stand around convention floors in tightly-packed briefs? How many Catherine anime pillowcases or Dead Island zombie-titties feature dudes?

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Edited By mdnthrvst

@Carousel said:

@mdnthrvst said:

For the record, in case you care, I'm a dude.

Then why are you speaking on the behalf of women?

Also, try to imagine that book if it were implying women can be trained like dogs.

I guarantee you'd start whining about "patriarchal oppression" even if the author came out and said it was tongue-in-cheek.

Because I'm a dude, I understand what it's like to be a dude, and I'm baffled at how other dudes can pretend that they have a claim upon being victimized by sexism. Unless you're interested in taking care of a child on your own, there is never a situation where men are discriminated against by their sex. Sure, you can be an under-educated, poorly motivated loser that no one respects, but that's not because of your dick. I'm not representing women, I'm representing men as they exist in the real world and outside of your victim-complex fantasyland where winning an argument is paramount above considering the issues rationally. I always get my voice heard fairly, no one has second thoughts about respecting me, and it's like this way because six thousand years of culture has made it this way.

Also, about books with joke titles, I can't stand ANYONE dense enough to make a big deal out of silly nonsense. A New Yorker cover in 2008 featured Obama as a caricature of a terrorist to mock the stereotypes in conservative media, and everyone liberal AND conservative took it as "racist" by the New Yorker because people need to fucking lighten up and learn how to take a joke

Oh, and there ARE books out there about how to train women like dogs, they're called BDSM manuals, and no one has a problem with them because they relate to consensual sexual behavior. The pop-culture trope of women hoodwinking or gaining the upper hand on a dumb guy isn't a manifestation of sexism, it's a reaction against sexism of the Don Draper school.

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Edited By GioVANNI
@Neon25: This is a great post.
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WMWA

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Edited By WMWA
@Milkman
@jimmyfenix said:
I really like these articles alot! , in my opinion the artcles such as 1reasonwhy and the dead island statue dont really fit with the core giantbomb audience , i know you feel strongly about these things patrick but in my opinion it just doesnt fit
There's a difference between not fitting with you and not fitting with this "core audience" that you invented.  
 
Keep writing them, Patrick.
Word
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WMWA

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Edited By WMWA

Oh man, that volition pouring out the 40 vid bummed me out. =(

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Edited By MMann

@brownsfantb said:

So for the people who think Rocketgirl is fine because it's too "over-the-top" to actually be sexist, would that Dead Island bust been fine if it was a torso with like 12 pairs of boobs on it? Because then it would be too "crazy" or "ridiculous" to be sexist?

That torso wouldn't have been fine with 24 boobs.

It would have been fiiiiiine~

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Edited By brownsfantb

So for the people who think Rocketgirl is fine because it's too "over-the-top" to actually be sexist, would that Dead Island bust been fine if it was a torso with like 12 pairs of boobs on it? Because then it would be too "crazy" or "ridiculous" to be sexist?

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MMann

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Edited By MMann

@Carousel said:

Then why are you speaking on the behalf of women?

It's called empathy, you shitface

(I promise not to compliment you in this thread, Carousel <3, I know you don't like it)

No, but seriously, sometimes the sexy girl stuff just gets really, really tired and boring and sorta gross even if you aren't a girl. I personally want to see more buff men's torsos (nonmutilated mind you), or buff dudes in loincloths, to balance it out because that is more the sort of thing I want as eyecandy.

Not everyone is just white knighting, some people are either genuinely offended by the constant barrage of this stuff or as bored of it as some people are of Nintendo releasing what equate to full priced map packs for the ever staling NEW Super Mario Bros games.

Also: sexism is bad, and some people (especially those who are parts of different groups who get shit on all the time) don't like seeing that same sort of stuff happening to other groups.

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Humanity

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Edited By Humanity

Just posting some large screens as examples of how WACKY RocketGirl is:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Would you honestly not feel embarrassed if a female co-worker at your job walked by and saw you playing this on your break?

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brownsfantb

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Edited By brownsfantb

@hintonblogs said:

I'd have thought the difference between Rocketgirl and the Dead Island bust is fairly obvious:

Rocketgirl is so over the top that it couldn't in any way, shape or form be taken seriously. It's shrouded in complete ridiculousness. If it was a more subdued game that didn't have that crazy gameplay then you could certainly make a point for it being 'sexist', but at no point does the game seemingly want you to take it seriously.

On the other hand I keep seeing people trying to defend the Dead Island bust as some kind of tongue-in-cheek thing but that doesn't work. Nothing about the way it's presented suggests that, because indeed nothing about the game is tongue-in-cheek. If say Dead Island was the Saints Row of zombie killing then you could absolutely make that case. But it isn't. It's an all too serious (Remember the tone of those trailers) game that's used an ill-advised lowest common denominator appeal to get people to pre-order their product.

Tone is the key here, not so much the content. You can't just point to things and say sexist or not without trying to establish the context in which they're used.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Both Rocketgirl and that bust were created with the mindset of selling more copies with a little T&A. Also, that bust is just as ridiculous as what goes on in RocketGirl. And Dead Island does not have a more "serious" tone. Sure that original cinematic trailer was pretty serious, but the game was literally nothing like that.

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Jeldh

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Edited By Jeldh

If your offended by rocketgirl you are weak, so goddamn weak.

Also, more on topic, The Destiny artwork looks so amazing, I hope this game turn out great.

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Edited By MMann

@patrickklepek: It is ridiculous and stupid. So is that torso.

It's okay to be against sexism and still enjoy problematic media. There is no innate hypocrisy in saying that characters in skimpy costumes, or that cheesecake camera angles, shouldn't be the standard while also enjoying your time playing Lollipop Chainsaw or Mass Effect.

As long as you are willing to acknowledge, address, and be aware of the faults in a piece of media you can enjoy it no matter how much it conflicts with your beliefs. That isn't hypocrisy or even compromise, it's just being a fan of something without troubling aspects.

Rocketgirl can be sexist but also fun, you can enjoy it even if you wish they didn't shove so much sideboob in your face if you think the game-play is worth it. As long as you're willing to say 'These things about it are flawed and I don't agree with them, but I enjoyed it despite that' it isn't hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy IS though saying that some over the top things are good, but others are bad, based on how much you enjoy them. You can't draw a line in the sand on just being "over the top" unless you can also back that up with another reason for why it is enjoyable.

It's no less gross than that weird Japanese FPS with the upskirts that Jeff played on the Creeper Cam that one happy hour, because that was pretty insane and over the top ridiculous too. Rapelay was super crazy and insane, who could have possibly taken a game like that serious? That doesn't make them any less gross.

Rocketgirl is just Techno Kitten Adventure's gameplay, but stuffed with shitty, "sexy", barely animated, DAZ models instead of a flying kitten. It is little more than cheesecake and sex being used to try and sell tired ass Flash gameplay and mechanics and I'm kinda let down that you can't seem to accept why some people might find it weird that you can't see how it's not different from the Riptide shit.

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Humanity

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Edited By Humanity

@mdnthrvst: Of course sexism is targeted by a large margin at women and not the other way around. There is no case in trying to disprove this. Just like racism is not something that white people really have to deal with on an average basis. That doesn't mean that sexist acts aren't committed both ways. I agree that someone getting unfairly accused of rape is really shitty, and it is sexist because very often the case automatically becomes one of guilty until proven innocent rather than the other way around. The act of those three girls bullying the boy is not sexist in of itself - it's the inaction against it because it's understood that the boy can handle that situation while a female couldn't that is sexist.

You literally HAVE to fish for examples. I'm not saying there are deeply entrenched sexist problems aimed at men, and I'm not perpetrating that it's an even split. I was simply responding to the comment that "this is just women being assholes no sexism here" which is not true. When you bend the system to your advantage because of your gender then that is a clear example of sexism. It doesn't happen super often, and I'm not going to fear for my life on the street, but it's there and it's ridiculous to say that men are somehow immune to the issue.

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amir90

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Edited By amir90

Despite your hypocrisy regarding sexism Patrick, I still enjoy your "Worth reading articles".

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Carousel

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Edited By Carousel

@mdnthrvst said:

For the record, in case you care, I'm a dude.

Then why are you speaking on the behalf of women?

Also, try to imagine that book if it were implying women can be trained like dogs.

I guarantee you'd start whining about "patriarchal oppression" even if the author came out and said it was tongue-in-cheek.

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mdnthrvst

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Edited By mdnthrvst

@Humanity: I'll tell you what I told the guy who posted that nonsense, none of which is indicative of sexism, by the way.

You're fishing for examples of crazy people being assholes to compare against a systemic, deeply entrenched societal problem. Men do not have a systemic, deeply entrenched disadvantage in their careers, sexual expression, or any number of manifestations of sexism.

Women can be assholes to men, men can be assholes to women, that has nothing to do with sexism - three little girls making fun of a little boy is tragic and stupid, but also isolated, not indicative of anything larger than itself. And you're a particularly dense sort of person if you take a tongue-in-cheek, jocular book title to be a serious example of women oppressing or subjugating or discriminating or whatever the fuck you want to think it is with your fantasy-land persecution complex.

And yes, women can point to innocent men and cry "rapist", because 54 percent of all rapes/sexual assaults committed against women go unreported.

It's ABSOLUTELY shitty when it happens, but if you try to tell me that having your emotional well-being destroyed, and fearing the risk of this whenever you travel alone outdoors, isn't worse by orders of magnitude, then we have nothing further to discuss. People can be horrible without raising the spectre of sexism to try to claim some sort of false equivalency in an argument.

For the record, in case you care, I'm a dude.

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@hintonblogs said:

If people genuinely can't tell the difference between the over-the-top aspects of Rocketgirl and the lowest common denominator pandering of the Dead Island bust then I don't know what to say. Here's a tip: They're not the same.

And as informative as Neon's post is, I'm not really seeing much there other than people being shitty to one another and nothing coming of it. Other than the book, which is idiotic but which I also gather is meant to be somewhat tongue in cheek (or at least I hope so).

If the prospect of getting 20+ years in jail as a result of someone using their gender in an incriminating fashion against you is "nothing coming of it" then maybe you should reevaluate what a lifetime in prison constitutes on your scale of worthwhile trouble. RocketGirl is a trash Jetpack Joyride clone whose only distinguishing factor is that you're a big breasted female, straddling a rocket and wearing nothing but a string bikini. The amount of sexual implications in this entire situation is mind boggling and none of it is all too flattering for females. Quite frankly I'd be way more embarrassed if someone caught me playing RocketGirl on a computer than if they came over to my house and I had the Dead Island bust on my entertainment center shelf. But I can see how RocketGirl is completely different and TOTALLY O-K rather than a bust of a female torso in a bikini - because that bust had been mutilated and it was done with the express intention of belittling women and enticing male-dominant fantasies of rape and abuse towards them, rather than you know, just fitting in with that whole game-about-murdering-zombies motif.

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@patrickklepek: I had to read that part about Rocketgirl several times, because I couldn't believe that you actually wrote this, Patrick. I was so on your side with all the articles before, but this really confuses me. Come on, dude! That must be some kind of typo or something. :(

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@Milkman said:

@Carousel: Couple things.

I'm not defending anyone. All I did was give my personal opinion. Like I said in the very first sentence, there is a discussion to be had about whether this is sexist or not. I didn't say that Rocket Girl wasn't sexist or that anyone who thinks it is sexist is wrong. What you fail to understand is that it's possible to take a middle ground with these discussions. Somewhere between "This is sexist filth and I'm apalled!" and "This isn't sexist and anyone who think it's sexist is a idiot." What is perceived as sexist to one person may not be perceived as sexist by another, as we CLEARLY saw after the torso debacle. The important part is seeing both sides of the coin. The side of the coin I'm not interested in is the people who going to pretend to be outraged just so they can try to call Patrick out because that's lame and it hurts the quality of the articles that Patrick can write because he'll be constantly worried about how his words can be twisted to call out him on being a hypocritical.

no ones pretending here u know (correction, i dont speak for everyone and i dont know everyones intentions so to the very least im not pretending),

i understand what you mean by seeing both sides. but i dont think you can say that if your saying your not interested in seeing the side where people are calling him out (generalizing the other side as "just pretending to be outraged, not really what i call seeing both sides, again, i dont know everyones intentions, but im going out on a limb here and say that really, not everyones just using this just to dig patrick, we're just calling him out on how we think he has double standards.) .

your right that there is a middle ground that could be had. but MY impression of what causes the rage is that patricks style of writing has him come off as an "self-righteous authority source" like "my opinion is THE OPINION OF ALL" and DOES NOT even look at the other side of the debate or even brings up any neutral points, which stirs up internet rage, (i was deep in that 2000 comments war that was going on, a good bit of the criticism was the fact that patricks argument was not balanced which i agree)

but then you could make the argument of well that whole statue thing was technically an opinion piece and at the end of the day its only his opinion whether you agree with it or not. which the fact that giantbomb is a personality driven site, it will be expected to have the legions telling him that they dont agree.

definitely a controversial line. one thing i hope happens is i hope on the new site that there's distinctions made between "opinion/discussion piece" and "news piece",

if opinions keep mixing with news, then these comments are going to get straight up toxic, cause the way i see it, the hate for patrick seems to be ever increasing,

people pick on kotaku so much, but totilo (patick's mentor, i believe) did a Q and A with his audience yesterday i believe and essentially acknowledge that their approach to stuff could be better while at the same time saying he has no intention of stopping what he does. i respect that way of trying to balance things

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Whoa Owlboy is still a game?

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Westerado bugged out on me, but I can see how it could be fun.

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@Carousel: And you completely ignore the rest of the post to specifically talk about the part that I said would derail the conversation. Ugh, okay... 

It was a reply to a post that insinuated that men can't be discriminated against.

Well, I don't agree with that either and that too has nothing to do with the topic.

Regardless of its relevance to the article, you can't just shrug the argument off as "MRA bullshit"

Well, I called it garbage, not bullshit. But either way, sure maybe that was the wrong word. Probably should have just ignored it all together, sorry. 

Also don't you usually say that men can't dictate what is and is not sexist?

Nope. Never said that. I did say that I enjoyed the last article about the Dead Island statue because it gave a female perspective and only getting a male perspective on something that directly effects women is useless. But like I said and have said many times, sexism is perceived differently by everyone, men or women.  
 
As for Patrick saying that, I don't know. I don't remember him ever saying that but if he did, okay. I don't really care. I'm only speaking for myself.  
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@Milkman said:

But it has nothing to do with the topic at hand and only exists to completely derail the conversation. So, I won't even get into it.

It was a reply to a post that insinuated that men can't be discriminated against.

Regardless of its relevance to the article, you can't just shrug the argument off as "MRA bullshit"

Also don't you usually say that men can't dictate what is and is not sexist?

I recall Patrick saying the same thing.

But that's exactly what he's doing...

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@Fungiefips said:

@alibson said:

@Carousel said:

@Milkman:

Patrick is showing obvious hypocrisy and you STILL defend him.

I'd think you of all people would be up in arms about this.

And dismissing Neon25's post as "men's rights garbage"?!

You must have no empathy in you if you're not at all outraged about what happened to those people, especially the little boy.

Patrick's fan club is like a religion now.

It's the easy way to feel morally superior right now on GB. Anyone that dislike Klepek's content is a troll, terrible human being, and most likely misogynistic. If you criticize any facet of his work, you're just as bad as the fuckwit who said he was glad his father died. That's the real reason the comments have turned into a warzone on everything he posts.

double standards yo

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@Carousel: Couple things. 
  
I'm not defending anyone. All I did was give my personal opinion. Like I said in the very first sentence, there is a discussion to be had about whether this is sexist or not. I didn't say that Rocket Girl wasn't sexist or that anyone who thinks it is sexist is wrong. What you fail to understand is that it's possible to take a middle ground with these discussions. Somewhere between "This is sexist filth and I'm apalled!" and "This isn't sexist and anyone who think it's sexist is a idiot." What is perceived as sexist to one person may not be perceived as sexist by another, as we CLEARLY saw after the torso debacle. The important part is seeing both sides of the coin. The side of the coin I'm not interested in is the people who going to pretend to be outraged just so they can try to call Patrick out because that's lame and it hurts the quality of the articles that Patrick can write because he'll be constantly worried about how his words can be twisted to call out him on being a hypocritical.   
 

You must have no empathy in you if you're not at all outraged about what happened to those people, especially the little boy.

Second, really? You have a future in news media with this excellent words twisting going on here. I didn't say that any of things that he posted were okay or excusable. But it has nothing to do with the topic at hand and only exists to completely derail the conversation. So, I won't even get into it.
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@alibson said:

@Carousel said:

@Milkman:

Patrick is showing obvious hypocrisy and you STILL defend him.

I'd think you of all people would be up in arms about this.

And dismissing Neon25's post as "men's rights garbage"?!

You must have no empathy in you if you're not at all outraged about what happened to those people, especially the little boy.

Patrick's fan club is like a religion now.

It's the easy way to feel morally superior right now on GB. Anyone that dislike Klepek's content is a troll, terrible human being, and most likely misogynistic. If you criticize any facet of his work, you're just as bad as the fuckwit who said he was glad his father died. That's the real reason the comments have turned into a warzone on everything he posts.

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@Carousel said:

@Milkman:

Patrick is showing obvious hypocrisy and you STILL defend him.

I'd think you of all people would be up in arms about this.

And dismissing Neon25's post as "men's rights garbage"?!

You must have no empathy in you if you're not at all outraged about what happened to those people, especially the little boy.

Patrick's fan club is like a religion now.

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@Milkman:

Patrick is showing obvious hypocrisy and you STILL defend him.

I'd think you of all people would be up in arms about this.

And dismissing post as "men's rights garbage"?!

You must have no empathy in you if you're not at all outraged about what happened to those people, especially the little boy.

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Ignoring the ridiculous men's rights garbage that has already invaded these comments, I think there probably is a discussion to be made about whether Rocket Girl can be considered sexist. Personally, I think that you have to take into account the complete tonal difference between this game and the Dead Island statue. Rocket Girl is absurd, ridiculous, and over-the-top. There's humor to be had and in the end, it probably is more of a parody of this kind of thing (though I can't really say with absolute certainty because I obviously haven't played it.) There's no humor in the Dead Island statue. No one looks at that and laughs and goes "oh, that's so silly!" (Well, maybe you do but not in the same way you laugh at Rocket Girl.)  
 
Beyond that, this site is going to get really fucking lame (lamer than it already has been the last few days) if every comment section of every article that Patrick writes is going to be a bunch of people trying to nail him or whatever and call him out on something sexist. Also, don't try to feign some kind of outrage just to try to stick it to Patrick. If your response to the Dead Island torso is "Shut up, I don't care", you can't then turn around and tell me how sexist and offensive Rocket Girl is. 

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Soooo this is a pretty sensitive community, eh?

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@DedBeet said:

@Carousel said:

Patrick "It's Only Offensive if I Say it is" Klepek.

Thank you for being my moral guardian.

I think someone is lacking some perspective. We're all pretty unique, wouldn't you agree? So, with billions of unique people, there are likely to be millions to billions of unique opinions, that makes sense, right? Now, suppose you work at a website and your job is to provide some editorial content. Yes, I know that Patrick was introduced to us as a News guy but, since he has contributed quite a bit of editorial content, I think it's safe to assume it's part of his job description. Now, say that is your job, I'd imagine sometimes you'd feel moved to write about things you find offensive since you may believe that awareness of an issue needs to raised. Now, it's important to remember that you're posting something you find offensive. You. Not everyone because there's no way to do that due to the millions/billions unique opinions we discussed earlier. And, assuming you have an audience the size of the GB community, I think it's safe to assume some won't find the issue offensive or, worse, feel that you're trying to manipulate them into finding a subject offensive. Now, in writing your article, were you trying to be their "moral guardian" or were you just doing your job and providing content for a site that people are free to read or ignore?

If creating editorial content on a website was my job I'd at least make some sort of effort to not be an absolute hypocrite.

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@gladspooky said:

@hintonblogs said:

If people genuinely can't tell the difference between the over-the-top aspects of Rocketgirl and the lowest common denominator pandering of the Dead Island bust then I don't know what to say. Here's a tip: They're not the same.

Just because the statue was over-the-top, insanely, stupidly sexist, it doesn't mean this game isn't also sexist.

exactly, alll im going to say is just look at that picture and tell me thats in no way pandering in the vein of that dumb statue especially with that being the buy screen and the start screen.

fuck it im not going to keep on going back and forth about this. i dont buy the argument that this is no way "sexist". and that this whole "what is sexist and what is not considered sexist" that has been going on this week is amazingly subjective.and amazingly overblown

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@patrickklepek said:

@Pr1mus said:

@buft said:

@Pr1mus said:

Rocketgirl...

He has to do it on purpose.

i thought that too

Yeah and the more i think about it the more i hate it. If it's on purpose that's just gross. If it's not that just show how much of an hypocrite about this stuff he is.

I'm gonna be called a hater i guess but oh well.

C'mon. There's a big difference here. Rocketgirl is just straight ridiculous and stupid.

I hope someone sends you that Fez Lego set, so you can step on it.