I'd like to preface this topic by saying that, so far, Dark Souls is probably my favorite game of 2011. I love everything about the way it handles its gameplay to the world From has crafted.
 
But that being said there is something VERY wrong with this game and it needs to be identified and talked about because either Namco or From need to address it immediately.
 
I've seen topic after topic on both the Giantbomb forums and many other sites, including PrepareToDie.com, from people who cannot use the online functionality of this game at all. I'm not talking about finding specific friends or not being able to use party chat, I'm talking about advertised features. Summoning, Invading, and even Covenants just flat out don't work most of the time.
 
A lot of people think that the first two specifically have to do with Soul Level, and while that is part of it isn't the real issue. The biggest difference between Dark Souls and Demon's Souls in terms of how it handles its online is that you are no longer connecting to a server when you boot up the game, you are the server. No one at Namco or From has so far been courteous enough to really detail how this system actually works, but so far what we do know is that the chances of you actually finding someone near your Soul Level in the same area as you to interact with is incredibly, incredibly slim.
 
The system in Dark Souls basically, we must assume a bit at this point, breaks players up into lobbies (we have no idea if Soul Level or region or anything else has any bearing on this) and you are stuck in that lobby with those set of players for the entire duration of your play session. To put it bluntly, there may be 1,000 people around your Soul Level in the same area as you who you could summon or invade in the world, but only 10 of those people might be in your lobby. Furthermore, apparently Covenants have some bearing on grouping as well, perhaps even lowering this number more. This system works fine in the beginning of the game leading up to Anor Londo, everyone is on a fairly linear path and usually part of the Way of White Covenant so finding other people is usually not too hard. However after obtaining the Lordvessel and having the world really open up players become incredibly spread out and have achieved a diversity of Soul Levels and Covenants.
 
That is to say, as far as we know the more you play Dark Souls the more likely it is that you will have fewer and fewer interactions with human players.
 
This has made a huge impact on Covenants too, severely limiting what was once the most intriguing part of this new game. If you are a Forest Hunter then someone has to invade the forest in your lobby for you to be called to defend it. If you are a Blade of the Darkmoon then someone has to be in your lobby for you to invade undetected. The Gravelord covenant straight up doesn't work at all.
 
I sat at various bosses for hours just trying to help out other players. I've tried on every fucking covenant ring in the game trying to get called to arms. I wasted every single cracked eye orb I had in some last ditch effort to find any sort of human presence in this vast, desolate wasteland of a community.
 
And I failed every single time.
 
This would never happen in Demon's Souls. Even going back to it today, you can still easily find Soul Signs because everyone is playing on the same server in the same region all the time. There is no arbitrary fracturing of the community. You don't have to reset the game to join a new lobby in the hopes that you might finally get called into another world.
 
As it stands right now Dark Souls is half a game. It's one hell of a fraction, but it is still incredibly broken and I expect we'll see more and more outcry as more people venture closer and closer to the end game.
 
This needs to be fixed. This isn't part of the design and it certainly isn't the game people were advertised. The online component is crippled to the point that if you are looking for the full Soul's experience that I would have to steer you towards Demon's Souls and away from this mess.
 
It really pains me to say it but I almost don't want to play Dark Souls anymore because I can't play the game the way I was told I could. I have always really enjoyed the co-op aspect of Demon's Souls and I loved the idea of the Gravelord covenant but both of these features are completely broken. At the most I will finish this playthrough and then set the game down for good.

Today I summoned the same guy twice, and then a third guy, at the same time. The three of us wailed on that fucking gaping Dragon.

Today I summoned the same guy twice, and then a third guy, at the same time. The three of us wailed on that fucking gaping Dragon.

This is pretty nice imo. I hated getting invaded in Demon's Souls by some asswipe with a Scrapping Spear that wanted to do PvP and break all my armor. 
 
No means no dammit! 

@Enigma777 said:

No means no dammit!

Your mouth says no, but your eyes say yes.

This is pretty nice imo. I hated getting invaded in Demon's Souls by some asswipe with a Scrapping Spear that wanted to do PvP and break all my armor.  No means no dammit! 

@Enigma777 said:

This is pretty nice imo. I hated getting invaded in Demon's Souls by some asswipe with a Scrapping Spear that wanted to do PvP and break all my armor.  No means no dammit! 

The problem is people who want to be invaded can't be so PvP is basically dead.  If you want to go through the entire game as a Hollow, or only go human when on boss encounters, you can play it safe and never be invaded because aside from not being able to summon or kindle their are no detriments to playing in that state.

I've managed to summon other people a couple of times just fine, but I've never been able to get summoned.

I've also noticed that as I progress deeper into the game, the messages have become so sparse that at times I end up checking to see if I've been disconnected from Xbox Live.

Well I don't want to play as a Hollow. I fucking earned my humanity and I want to use my full goddamn lifebar and be able to summon so I have someone as a distraction and not have some turdfucker backstab me from behind while I'm enjoying the view and making me lose 60K souls and 4 hours of progress.

Yeah I have played for about 30 hours now. I have been invaded once, the invasion item has failed the 5 times I have tried it. I was also able to summon another person but he was the same person who had invaded me like an hour earlier lol. I love this game A LOT ( It is my game of the year so far as well and is 90% certain to stay that way) but I am really dissapointed in the online elements.

@Enigma777 said:

Well I don't want to play as a Hollow. I fucking earned my humanity and I want to use my full goddamn lifebar and be able to summon so I have someone as a distraction and not have some turdfucker backstab me from behind while I'm enjoying the view and making me lose 60K souls and 4 hours of progress.

Well I have great news and sad news for you.

Being Hollow doesn't affect your lifebar at all! Your ability to summon however that is a problem that requires life.

That's a huge bummer, I remember a while back hearing that there wouldn't be central servers anymore, that everything would be p2p, and I actually thought it was a good thing since the online component would not depend on for how long they wish to keep the servers up, but it seems the execution was terrible.

Definitely at the point where this is affecting me. I just want the damn stones to work like they did in the first game. I'm not sure how they fix this but maybe take off all of there special filters. Grrr...

the 30 wasted invasion stones i used and never once got to invade someone speaks to the truth of this

I agree... I just wanna invade some players so badly and steal their dragon scales for my new Stone Dragon Overlord, but it fails everytime. T_T

Agreed, something needs to be done.... Not sure how they screwed up the networking code so badly, but a patch would really help for a second playthrough down the line. Still completely badass game, coolest action RPG and best metroidvania ever, all in one. Also, since From is no doubt reading this post with bated breath, PvP arena with some rankings, ladders, etc would've been sweet. I know you said no DLC, so just do it as a free patch. Or keep in under the hat for Dark Souls 2: Really F'in Dark.

If I hear one more person complain about the goddamn online I'm going to kill myself.

ESPECIALLY when they compare it to Demons Souls.

This is DARK SOULS, NOT DEMONS SOULS II.

The people from FROM SOFTWARE said in themselves "it's important people know this is not a sequel".

You always have to take into account that with Demons Souls they had expected way less people than they got (remember the notices about online shutting down, and then getting extended over and over and over?).

Back then they had only a couple of servers, so there was far more activity, this time they planned for the future and made more servers so it now FEELS like it isn't inhabited by more people.

However, they also did this on purpose for a few reasons and you can buy certain things in game that will make notes, bloodstains, etc show up more.

That and notes, etc correspond with the level of character you're playing with (at times) too.

Over time the servers will fill up more and there will be much more activity but until then, get use to it. STOP COMPLAINING (because it's 90% xbox cry babies bitching about how it's broken because it doesn't use multiplayer like EVERY other game out there).

Dark Souls isn't a MMORPG man, it's meant to be a single player experience WITH multiplayer elements and experiences.

That and when comparing it to Demons Souls and the nexus and how players went in and out of areas (there were a lot of "main roads people would travel on, versus in Dark Souls it's EVERYWHERE you can travel) so you are very naturally not going to see a lot of activity in such a stretched out place.

Think about this...and I've had success joining games, etc....people always forget about the whole "being human" is important in the game and just want to complain about anything and everything.

If you wanna hate so much and know so much about how the game should be, maybe you should go to school for what you're bitching about or contact From Software with your "genius" plan and obviously if it's worth it, they'd give a shit.

But in the end I'll trust the developers of this great game when they say that the "multiplayer" needs to be a certain way for the experience.

I'm not hating on anyone in particular and I didn't even read the topic starters grief he/she wrote about but I'm speaking on the stuff I've seen over the past few day's and how annoying it's become.

I'd like to see if people in Japan are whining so damn much about it too, because I doubt it.

You should be happy with what you have and the only thing you can do is to structure your feedback into a well organized plan and contact From Software for future releases/patch ideas.

I'm not hating on anyone in particular and I didn't even read the topic starters grief he/she wrote about but I'm speaking on the stuff I've seen over the past few day's and how annoying it's become.

@eastcoasteric:You calling others "cry babies". Oh, the irony.

They need to fix the multiplayer, fast. You shouldn't be forced to sit in place for 30 minutes just to get summoned for 5.

@eastcoasteric- um you said they "made more servers", wrong, pretty sure the game is not on any servers at all, but runs off of player to player networking... and this is the second thread i have seen you just hop in and start posting w/o reading the thread at all (first one being the stickied begm thread) might not look like such ding dong if you actually read the threads before you leave your "2 cents"

@eastcoasteric said:

STOP COMPLAINING (because it's 90% xbox cry babies bitching about how it's broken because it doesn't use multiplayer like EVERY other game out there).

If you want me to take you seriously you should probably stay away from childish comments like this.

I was finally able to get some covenant shit done but it took about 5 hours to get four forest kills for the Ring of Fog and a few Orenstein & Smough assists so I could join the Warriors of Sunlight.

Luckily the loading screen when you are being summoned is pretty explicit so you can go do other stuff, but it is still fucking ridiculous how long it takes to get queued up for a 5-10 minute encounter.

I think another issue with the online is people hording humanity. I assume this will work itself out in time, but I've heard several different people mention playing the game only hollow. Not enough incentives to be human or people don't understand how the online is basically dependent on being human =/

i've been invaded once and summoned twice, works fine. But i'm just exploring the game on my own right now. But i have faith in from soft that they will fix this someway

I think another issue with the online is people hording humanity. I assume this will work itself out in time, but I've heard several different people mention playing the game only hollow. Not enough incentives to be human or people don't understand how the online is basically dependent on being human =/

Last night my online fortunes sort of reversed. I had previously been able to summon people, but last night every time I tried, I got a "summoning failed" message. I did however get invaded for the first time (easily killed the guy...all he did was just try to hit me with strong two handed attacks which left him wide open for back stabs).

Yesterday I found 3 different summon signs at the Chaos Witch's lair. 2 of them didn't work, and the third guy worked on the third try for some reason.

@Chop said:

I think another issue with the online is people hording humanity. I assume this will work itself out in time, but I've heard several different people mention playing the game only hollow. Not enough incentives to be human or people don't understand how the online is basically dependent on being human =/

I'm guilty as charged - I haven't used humanity once even to get more flasks. I'm a huge horder - I played through Deus Ex almost never using any of the worm or stop viruses. I think though that I will fight my compulsivness and go home today and try summoning or invading people just to see it in action.

Also the whole peer-to-peer situation is not that great because when I plays Gears of War 3 - a huge online title like that I see the lobby say 50,000 people playing worldwise, 1,000 playing in YOUR area.

If I get those sort of stats of Gears then I can only imagine how high that number is for Dark Souls.

OK, so, I'm wondering if the people who say "I've been invaded a couple times, I don't see a problem" realize that there are scripted invasion events where you fight an AI controlled dude. You can usually tell by checking whom you recently played with, at least on the 360. Same thing with summoning, the knight who gave you the white soapstone leaves a sign at a couple different bosses.

So far the only consistent pvp I've had was when I entered Artorias' forest and 4 different Forest Covenant dudes kept invading me one after the other. Shit was fantastic. I then joined the covenant myself, put on the ring, and NOTHING. Also recently joined Darkmoon, and the blue orb has not worked once.

I've been invaded by human players twice, and I've had what I assume are failed invasions (the doors fogged over, but the intruder never appeared and about a minute later the doors opened). I've summoned and been summoned many times, but to the OP's point, I only juts got to Anor Londo last play session.

PvP might be broken as shit, but the summoning stuff works great for me. I see plenty of white scribbles, and summoning works perfectly 99% of the time. When I stick my summoning sign in a logical location, I always get summoned within 3 minutes too. I don't see the issue right now.

But, I heard from somewhere else that From Software is actually really working hard about solving these PvP issues, so who knows?

I played through the entirety of blighttown with a friendly Pyromancer yesterday. It was pretty amazing.

I also find that there's very little incentive to play human, and I can't be alone in this. I'm sure this is the real reason online seems busted.

Arguably the best thing about humanity is that you can farm items more efficiently when you have a lot of humanity. The problem is, it looks like I don't even need to be in human form to gain this benefit. You can just be a hallowed with built up humanity points and the rare drops will keep coming.

As someone who doesn't really welcome the PvP element (nor do I bother using co-op, so it evens out) the only reason for me to want to turn human is...

- To make certain in-game events happen which require me to be in human form. OR

- For cosmetic reasons. To look human, and not like some wrinkled husk.

That's it. Which means I'm hallowed 90% of the time. If most players think this way, it would make sense why most of the online components barely work.

@Enigma777: I see where you're coming from, not wanting invasions to interrupt your single-player fun. But in Dark Souls, you are given the power to boot players from your game. At least I think the item does what it says (haven't been invaded to try it out). Early on they give you the Black Seperation Crystal. Try use it whenever you want to kick some invader out of your game. Just be careful it's not a fake in-game AI controlled invader. Those are easy to beat and worth it for the items they drop.

When I was a member of the Forest Hunter covenant, I was summoned to invade six different players' games in one sitting. Only three of those six invasions successfully connected--the other half errored out.

I have yet to be invaded, summoned, or to be human long enough (or to be desperate enough) to summon a fellow player into my game. In other words: I know there are issues, but I can't say with certainty the system is flat-out broken, as I haven't experienced everything yet.

I wasn't really feeling like the online was that bad, until last night... I was up to Ornstein & Smaugh, and the only summon sign I could find was Knight Solaire, couldn't see any others anywhere... so I roll in with Solaire, die, and decide I'm going to try and help other people out for a while to scout out the fight. Now, I got into a few (died a lot though, because that fight is bullshit), but it should have been a lot quicker than it was. I am sure that there are hell of people in my level range (mid-50s) who are stuck on that fight and want to summon help, but this system makes it so hard to find help...

Doesn't break the game for me or anything, but I love this game a lot, and I wish the online was as smooth as I remember it being in Demon's Souls.

@bcjohnnie said:

I wasn't really feeling like the online was that bad, until last night... I was up to Ornstein & Smaugh, and the only summon sign I could find was Knight Solaire, couldn't see any others anywhere... so I roll in with Solaire, die, and decide I'm going to try and help other people out for a while to scout out the fight. Now, I got into a few (died a lot though, because that fight is bullshit), but it should have been a lot quicker than it was. I am sure that there are hell of people in my level range (mid-50s) who are stuck on that fight and want to summon help, but this system makes it so hard to find help...

Doesn't break the game for me or anything, but I love this game a lot, and I wish the online was as smooth as I remember it being in Demon's Souls.

This is the shit I'm talking about.

I was outside that door with my sign up literally all last night, from like 8 to fucking 3 AM or some shit, just trying to help dudes and I only managed to connect a few times. Man I would have decimated those mother fuckers for you man. I would have thrown lightning spears up their asses so hard.

@LordXavierBritish: Aww man... that would have been cool... The thing is I've always loved the Blue phantom part of this game, helping dudes out, and now there's a damn covenant that rewards you for it, and it won't let me grind boss kills to get into the covenant! I wanna be a gold phantom so bad and praise the fucking sun. My concern is that I'm not sure that anything can be done about this, I just hope that people figure out how to work around these limitations somehow to make the online a little better.

@bcjohnnie: It took me forever to get into the Warriors of Sunlight, you have to sit outside a boss door for ages.

Right now it is by far the hardest covenant to get into, I'd say Darkwraiths is even easier than this shit.

I stopped leveling my guy @ SL130. I am covenant hopping now trying to get everything done before I go back to praising the sun, and I have noticed that i NEVER see anyone anymore. I am always in human form.

But I do get invaded all the time. Like some levels I get invaded 2-3 times depending on how long I take (there is a cooldown between how soon you can be reinvaded, using the crow foot reduces it if you like being invaded) and rarly I get invaded by Blue phantoms as well (Which is funny because I only have 1 sin in the book)

It's actually really fun getting invaded and playing fog ring hide and seek; although, whenever I see anyone with a stone greatsword I know I am prob gonna die. Unless 3x Wraith of the Gods can kill them.

I love the online in this game, but the current system sucks (Namco's fault; not From) I really hope the address this issue.

I wish you could just hit a "I want to help someone" button and they send you w/e to save the day.

I admit I have some problems finding signs and joining games, but I did manage to do so a couple of times.