"super fun while playing it, might turn to dissapointment when im finished"

Am i off base here? This seems like I am having fun in the reptilian part of my brain because I am checking stuff off, but it doesnt feel like a real final fantasy to me.... Much like MGS, i come to ff for the story (I replay all the psx ones from time to time), but I dont think ive ever replayed a sandbox open world game before. I am up to chapter 4 and the story is so paper thin it is starting to worry me.

I want to make it clear that i am really enjoying this game, it just feels like i might have that same empty feeling of "where is the story" that i had when i finished mgs5....

Oh, you'll find plenty of story. The plot heavy stuff picks up around Chapter 10 or so. I happen to think it's an incoherent mess that makes absolutely no sense, but maybe that's because I didn't read all the lore and watch the anime.

FFXII was already the MGS5 of the franchise

(Sorry I haven't had time to play much FFXV yet to help you but of the little I have played and seen, I disagree that there is a sense of no story progress - just a lot of optional time-sinks like driving, cooking, hunting and exploring between those moments).

It is and I feel very sad for Tetsuya Nomura, he has gone from industry icon to a lot of the western audience believing he is some kind of crazy man who cant put a game together, Largely due to inaccurate facts or mistranslated articles (if you think this, Google what he's actually worked on, some of the best Japanese games and characters ever made, Also how much work he was tasked to do)

This whole concept was Tetsuya Nomura's, He showed off a teaser of it in '06 and waned to begin working on it as soon as the EU and FM for Kingdom Harts 2 was finished however as he stated in several Japanese Magazines the company wanted him to do other things first and he was only allowed to be working on Versus in his spare time.

Fast forward to 2010 after he finally convinced them to let full development begin after Yoichi Wada constantly trying to get him to make it a mobile game in Japan instead, In 2011 the full gameplay trailer was released. In 2012 Nomura stated that it was 92% playable to the end in alpha. (then the company decided to move it to PS4 and rebrand it as XV)

Final Fantasy XV's Original Story was a revenge tale, which starts with a betrayal and invasion. Ironically as the 4chan leaks now proved to be true. Where the poster posted everything about the FFXV's story and ending and even the delay stated the team in Japan were all saddened when Nomura got taken off the project and everyone felt before that it was going to be their new FFVII but all the changes to the story, character and stage removals made by Hajime Tabata , they feared it was now a mess.

In a recent interview Nomura even said" it was the company's decision, that's all I can say" and his latest Blog posts leading up to FFXV's release were all about him being sad and in a dark place but will make him make KH3 the best it can be.

All in all it is very simular to what happened with Kojima, I wouldn't be surprised after KH3 and FFVII ReMake, Nomura leaves S-E.

@scottjay01: What's really ironic about that is that Square Enix, unlike Konami, actually has a fairly positive reputation in the west still, largely because of games they didn't develop but only published.

It's MGSV + FFXII + Red Dead Redemption (Random Events) + Dragon's Dogma (Dialogue repetition) + Monster Hunter + Dark Souls

@freedom4556: Yes absolutely, if people were to look at square's Japanese releases to now all the ones that have been successful by in large or by that fan base all have had Nomura's involvement as either a director, producer, Credited for story or the base to become the story and key artist.

Yes, I think that is a very good comparison. Even in the way they both make a pretty great first impression with solid gameplay, which leads to spreading the good word, but those games take time and plenty of people feel burnt by the time they are done with the game. MGSV actually made things even worse by making the online portion more restrictive post-launch though. Both are undercooked messes and it's a shame.

You guys are a bummer. Both games are great. They offer something cool and original away from the boring ass shooters and Ubisoft open world template. I'm loving FF15's gameplay and characters. The plot is fine if a little disjointed. If I focused on the negative I could tear down pretty much any game that came out this year. That would be a terrible waste because fantastic games came out this year.

@pyrodactyl: I'm certainly not tearing down the game (either of them) If anything most of my games are Japanese and I don't like the yearly shooters.

However Both games original creators could not release them the way they wanted which would have made them better games but were forced out and those choices can be seen in both MGSV and FFXV

In that they are games in series both traditionally renowned for their narratives that have gone open world at the expense of that, yes.

In that MGSV plays phenomenally and FFXV plays like a bin full of a mish-mash of incompatible rubbish that some maniac has set on fire, no.

So what? Why should "trying something new" ever excuse any faults a game has?

There's a fine line between "a little disjointed" and missing large chunks of vital story and character moments. I've ranted about it enough so I won't do it here, but I will say this again: look at FF7, remove any and all moments involving Aeris between the moment you meet her in the church and her death and suddenly her death means nothing to the player.

That's XV's problem. It's missing those moments that should make me care, but it still desperately tries to force me to care and I'm sorry, but that's just not how it works. That's not how good stories are made.

I won't speak for everyone, but I'm one of the crazies who come to MGS and FF for the story. Much like MGSV, I'll keep calling out XV for it's story because that's what I wanted. Sure, there are great aspects of both games, but they don't excuse everything else wrong with them and in XV's case, I think it gets a lot more wrong than it does right.

@pyrodactyl: naw bro they're new things and we're on the internet so you gotta turn your hate dial to 11.

FFXV was finished and has an ending, so no

I compared FFXV in another thread to Dragon Age: Inquisition, but yeah, I can see some parallels with MGSV too.

Nah FFXV is better off without its original creator holding it back in the sense it probably would still be in development hell if square didn't get involved and say finish the damn game. I'm liking it a lot so far and my expectations were essentially zero so that helps. Much different than what I had for mgs

@babychoochoo: I found FF7's story to be as much of a nonsensical mess as 15's, if not more so. Honestly, when talking about the actual plot, all final fantasy games after 6 are various shades of dumb nonsense. People's nostalgia for this franchise is clouding their judgment. Final Fantasy is the series of great characters and iconic moments. FF15 has plenty of both those things.

PS: before someone yells out FINAL FANTASY 9, I was so bored with that game's gameplay, asthetic, characters and plot I turned it off after the first disc

PSS: FF15 has character moments every step of the way. Ignis's cooking, Prompto's photo ops, the ''loyalty missions'' you get when you stop at a new camp site, the conversations in the car or in a mission or in between missions. I got a good conversation with Prompto just stopping for the night at a random road side motel. That stuff is basically the high water mark for fleshing out characters in modern (post SNES) Final Fantasy games.

That's just the last 20 years of the Final Fantasy series.

I am enjoying FF15 (only 6 hours in and taking my time), but then I also enjoyed MGS5... I've played through 4, 7, 10 and 13 - FF15 compares well imho. I actually like the story (not as good as 4's, but still good). I watched Kingsglaive just before starting the game and it added to the experience for me.

From what I understand, the back third of this game is where all that story stuff comes into play, and the story has an ending. Reception of what that story is has been... less than stellar from what I've read, but I guess that's a matter of opinion. I'm personally disappointed that they felt they had to extend the scope of the story beyond "Noctis is taking a road trip with his JRPG homies to visit his girlfriend across the country", but what can I do; it's Final Fantasy, not the first 75% of Persona 4.

I think MGSV is an apt comparison for what this game is. To me, this is a game that IS it's open world and combat, much like Metal Gear. I've heard that the postgame content in this game is pretty good and there's a ton of it, so I'm really looking forward to getting into it, but I find myself getting so engrossed in just going on hunts, side missions, and random drives to massacre some animals and take some hot pics that I find it hard to motivate myself to advance the story (and open up even more of that stuff!). I've played for like 24 hours. I'm in the middle of Chapter 3 and I'm level 50. It's exactly like how in Metal Gear I spent so much time doing side ops, fultoning dudes, and researching new gear while not doing any main story missions.

Personally, the reason I was disappointed in Metal Gear and the reason I won't be disappointed by this game is expectations. I went into Metal Gear expecting an insane story full of crazy twists, zany characters, and Kojima-ass bullshit, and I got next to none of that. I played Episode Duscae and said "If this game was just this demo for 60 hours with some road trips and bro-ing out, I'll be real happy with it." And that's exactly what I got.

No FF15 was finished at least

FF15 transitioned into the open world setting more efficiently. There's actually some life in FF15's world. Other than the military bases and outposts MGS the world feels fairly lifeless. They were both a narrative mess, though.

@blackichigo:

wellllll if we're judging on its story, no it's not.

I'm not done FFXV yet but it has tons of story, and some of the best organic storytelling in a game I've seen. No clue how it wraps yet though.

It's kinda funny how many interpretations of calling a game "mgsv" can have. To me that means calling it the best game in the series lol.

I like you. Merry Christmas!

I know that MGSV doesn't have "as much" story as other MGS games, but I felt shivers like I never felt before as I realized the loop was closing on that franchise. They way the "two bosses" of the old MSX games are explained will stick with me forever. It may be done in a post credits roll, but it was some powerful as hell storytelling.

I really don't think FF15 will be the best Final Fantasy ever.

I'm approaching the halfway point in XV and liking it a bunch so far, but I definitely get a MGSV vibe in that the story sequences feel like they've been chopped up and reshuffled to patch up what must have been a more story-heavy game at some point. Interested to see how the more linear portion of the game changes things.

Absolutely yes. I'm currently plowing through the story just to get it out of the way so I can focus solely on the open world and hunts. I've never played a game so uneven. It's constantly showing me 10/10 amazing things only to be instantly ruined by utter garbage and amateurish game design.

I really am enjoying it a lot and whilst I can see the comparisons, FF XV feels like a Final Fantasy game to me in a lot of ways whilst MGSV didn't feel like a Metal Gear Solid game.

I really liked MGSV all the way through. I think it lost a little too much from the old games (mainly some humor and the crazy bosses) but I think it had a really different story and presentation style and I think that's really good. Obviously they ending is weird but it's not like no other MGS games left things up in the air. If they made MGS 6 or whatever next maybe we get what happens there. Or maybe they really do DLC or a stand alone like Ground Zeroes. I think obviously by creating that engine (a great one at that) they were planning on making more MGS with it. What happened with Konami happened, but I can't blame the game for that.

I think it's an amazing game. It was going for something different. The pacing is hugely changed from the old games where you would spend so much time on your codec and I enjoy that and think it's good being a bit different. Not that I don't still enjoy Codecs but it always never made a ton of sense for a guy who fancies himself a movie director in theory having Codec sequences in his game at all. If you are expecting that kind of conceit again for Death Stranding you are going to be dissapointed again I would say.

To me it kind of reminds me of going from Max Payne 1 and 2 to 3. That game also lost the graphic novel sequences which really told a lot of the story in the old games and were a showcase for expanding the story in ways the game probably couldn't at the time. Both give more time for characters and exposition alike and I do say there is something lost in either case in a series but also there are gains in pacing and that sort of thing.

I think the tapes add a ton though if you do listen to them and I hope everyone does. When I watched MGScanlon fort V and they didn't listen to tapes I thought the story suffered hugely.

Also, MGSV is one of the best playing games ever I would say and that goes a long way, long enough for me to not say "I don't like it after". I played 130 hours of the game I enjoyed playing it so much. This is in a series where I didn't even like 3 when it first came out and couldn't get through it with a top down camera when it was released (with the re release it's on of the best games ever for me). 2 was very annoying to get through in my time with it. V is an amazing stealth game and tactical game in a way far above the past games. I does make me wish there were fun crazy bosses to fight. Maybe a sequel would have brought that back.

If by MGSV you mean the best playing game in the series then yes.

Same here.

Yup, halfway through the game you'll get credits and then start chapter 2. Then near the end you'll replay the car pushing scene from the beginning but learn that you're noct who you think you are!

Agreed, although i've only played VII, X, XIII & XV. (not to completion, just yet)

The story in Final Fantasy (the ones i've played) has always been nonsense. (and not the good Kojima kind of nonsense) I watched the movie and the anime prior to playing this and feel like without that I'd have no idea what the hell was going on or who these people are. But thankfully I dont care, a quirky roadtrip with bros monster hunting and fishing is enough for me.

FF has way better end game garb just saying.

@frostyryan: I beg to differ.

solid goof

@pyrodactyl: Okay? If your party were literally the only characters in the story, that would be fine...but they're not. Not by a long shot. There are a ton of other characters and the does a shit job at making me care about any of them. This game is the epitome of "tell, don't show" in the FF franchise. It tells you to care about Noctis' father. It tells you to care about Luna. It tells you to care about Talcott and fucking Jared. It tells to care about everyone. It tells you to care about the world around you. But it never shows you why you should care about anyone or anything.

I'm not defending the insanity older FF games btw. I am, however, saying they had complete stories and not just better, but more character moments which, at the very least, equates to more time to at least try and get attached to the characters.

FFXV is the cliff notes version of a story. If this is what passes for good story telling in video games, then Uncharted is the goddamn Illiad.

The story for this game is bad, the story for most Final Fantasy games are bad, hell the story in video games in general are bad. I can count in one hand how many good video game stories there are (and I mean actually good and not just "good" for a video game).

The part where Noctis turns out to be Garland from Final Fantasy 1, while the real Garland was going back in time to become Chaos, was wild

Remember that guy in the mech right before you unlock Duscae? Who was that guy? Was he supposed to be important? They sure framed him like he was supposed to be important.

lolno. I wish.

To be fair, a large chuck of the fandom thinks the writing went downhill after the SNES games. I've played all of them (most to completion), and in my experience if the plot wasn't nonsense then it was pretty boilerplate high fantasy stuff. 'Chosen warriors of light must defend four crystals from an ancient evil.' My favorite FFs had memorable, relatable characters; it's probably why I liked FF8 so much. That and I didn't care that the junction system could break the game (and Triple Triad, yo!). You should look into XII when the remaster comes out. The Ivalice setting is one of Final Fantasy's best. (FF Tactics, ftw)

I just don't think FFXV is all that fun to play. The combat is not quite actiony enough, the camera is a mess, and the performance is poor. I'm still enjoying it, but it's far from being a great playing game. MGSV, on the other hand, was a game that felt incredible. I would have had fun playing MGSV even if the story hadn't been there. Maybe it's just the 60fps advantage, but MGS5 felt responsive and fast where FFXV feels sluggish.

I guess, for me, if FFXV doesn't land its story, then I'll probably end up thinking it wasn't a very good game because I don't love the way it plays. In contrast, I thought MGSV absolutely didn't land its story, but I still think it's great game because it played so well.

I think they both come off as feeling unfinished, but in very different ways. MGSV's story feels very incomplete, but everything else is great. Gameplay, level/world design, various systems, visually/aesthetically. Ignoring the obvious narrative issues, MGSV is one of the most cohesive games I've played. FFXV, on the other hand, doesn't fail at anything as terribly as MGSV failed with it's narrative, but overall it feels very messy. I think it's interesting and even endearing in it's weirdness, but each individual piece that makes up the whole of the experience feels jarring in some way.