Posted by whyareyoucrouchingspock (975 posts) -

Everytime I watch "Total Recall" I cant help but think about gaming. In it, the man from robocop withholds air from ugly mutants. The Robocop man can give them air at any point it outright has a big "press here" button build by aliens. In order to make money the Robocop man withholds air and attempts to hide the air making factorys existence. To me the ugly mutants are gamers. They are treated badly and do nothing about it other than little rebel attacks that have no real significance. They also live in slum like areas. The man from Robocop (Ronny Cox) seems to represent the likes of Ubisoft. A company with a freindly front but cynically greedy with a hatred for the mutants. The Quaid seems to be like an indie developer.. Both working but simultaneously railing against the Robocops man authoritarian grip. Sharon Stones character attempting to seduce and convince him everything is ok seems to represent the gaming media, acting as PR for the robocop man. At the end of the movie Quaid presses the alien button to give air.. The sky changes and everyone looks up in wonder. This seems to represent Valve.

Overall this is a very good movie that demonstrates greed in the video game industry. I understand alot of gamers are very young now and probably havent seen it. So I would recomend going back and watching it. Totally ignoring the terrible reboot which itself, is a cynical cash in like the movie depicts. While young hipsters have been praising the dark knight. Total Recall is a far better more socially relevant movie in which greed reaches the point that publishers are unwilling to give you air unless you pay.

#1 Edited by whyareyoucrouchingspock (975 posts) -

Everytime I watch "Total Recall" I cant help but think about gaming. In it, the man from robocop withholds air from ugly mutants. The Robocop man can give them air at any point it outright has a big "press here" button build by aliens. In order to make money the Robocop man withholds air and attempts to hide the air making factorys existence. To me the ugly mutants are gamers. They are treated badly and do nothing about it other than little rebel attacks that have no real significance. They also live in slum like areas. The man from Robocop (Ronny Cox) seems to represent the likes of Ubisoft. A company with a freindly front but cynically greedy with a hatred for the mutants. The Quaid seems to be like an indie developer.. Both working but simultaneously railing against the Robocops man authoritarian grip. Sharon Stones character attempting to seduce and convince him everything is ok seems to represent the gaming media, acting as PR for the robocop man. At the end of the movie Quaid presses the alien button to give air.. The sky changes and everyone looks up in wonder. This seems to represent Valve.

Overall this is a very good movie that demonstrates greed in the video game industry. I understand alot of gamers are very young now and probably havent seen it. So I would recomend going back and watching it. Totally ignoring the terrible reboot which itself, is a cynical cash in like the movie depicts. While young hipsters have been praising the dark knight. Total Recall is a far better more socially relevant movie in which greed reaches the point that publishers are unwilling to give you air unless you pay.

#2 Edited by believer258 (12101 posts) -

The difference being that gamers choose to buy video games. The mutants you're describing didn't choose their fate.

Isn't it funny how we bitch about sixty dollar games but not four dollar a gallon gas? Or gallons of milk whose prices have shot up? Or how healthy foods are just plain more expensive than their cheaper, unhealthy counterparts?

(For those in countries other than the US, just change the prices. Pretty certain that it's probably the same story in a lot of places).

#3 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

I don't see it.

#4 Posted by Spoonman671 (4751 posts) -

Somebody get that video clip from Billy Madison.

#5 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Spoonman671 said:

Somebody get that video clip from Billy Madison.

You mean this?

#6 Posted by A_Dog (744 posts) -

The difference is you don't need videogames.

#7 Posted by Spoonman671 (4751 posts) -
@Video_Game_King: No, I was thinking this one.
  
#8 Posted by sins_of_mosin (1556 posts) -

Comparing a product that can be bought at any time, new or used, and you really don't need it at all in your life..... to air that you need to live....  keep on truckin'.

#9 Posted by david3cm (635 posts) -

Know whats a sweet Arnold Schwarzenegger film, True Lies, man that movie is awesome. Oh, and I don't really agree with your analogy, comparing content being withheld by developers to AIR may be a little overexaggerated.

#10 Posted by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@Spoonman671 said:

@Video_Game_King: No, I was thinking this one.

Now this is one of the greatest forum weapons I have ever seen before. Thank you! I will be using this far more often now.

#11 Posted by upwarDBound (654 posts) -

All I want to know is who does Ahnold represent in this analogy?

#12 Posted by whyareyoucrouchingspock (975 posts) -

Arnold Schwarzenegger is an indie developer.

#13 Posted by believer258 (12101 posts) -

@whyareyoucrouchingspock said:

Arnold Schwarzenegger is an indie developer.

Fuck, I almost forgot to post something totally relevant.

#14 Posted by ComradeKhan (687 posts) -
@whyareyoucrouchingspock said:

This seems to represent Valve.

    


Gabe Newell
#15 Posted by Seedofpower (3947 posts) -

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

I don't see it.

#16 Posted by Skald (4369 posts) -

Air. That's totally like video games.

#17 Edited by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

@believer258 said:

The difference being that gamers choose to buy video games. The mutants you're describing didn't choose their fate.

Isn't it funny how we bitch about sixty dollar games but not four dollar a gallon gas? Or gallons of milk whose prices have shot up? Or how healthy foods are just plain more expensive than their cheaper, unhealthy counterparts?

(For those in countries other than the US, just change the prices. Pretty certain that it's probably the same story in a lot of places).

Yeah, exactly. Like, fuck people. It's entertainment. You could easily spend 5 bucks, hop on a bus and spend the day downtown with some buddies and manage to have fun. Who gives a fuck if games cost a pretty reasonable about of money? There are things that actually do cost too much, because they are needed or very important to day to day life.

Also guys, video games are pretty damn cool, ya know?

#18 Posted by jakob187 (21732 posts) -

@believer258 said:

Isn't it funny how we bitch about sixty dollar games but not four dollar a gallon gas? Or gallons of milk whose prices have shot up? Or how healthy foods are just plain more expensive than their cheaper, unhealthy counterparts?

I complain about those things on a daily basis...very publicly.

#19 Edited by whyareyoucrouchingspock (975 posts) -

@believer258 said:

The difference being that gamers choose to buy video games. The mutants you're describing didn't choose their fate.

Isn't it funny how we bitch about sixty dollar games but not four dollar a gallon gas? Or gallons of milk whose prices have shot up? Or how healthy foods are just plain more expensive than their cheaper, unhealthy counterparts?

(For those in countries other than the US, just change the prices. Pretty certain that it's probably the same story in a lot of places).

What is important in each of hour lifes is somewhat subjective. To a small deprived child in a ravaged African country he probably hasn't played Shogun 2 to my skill level because he cant afford a pc or have any sockets to plug his pc into. This doesnt mean decency should be irrelevant because it's irrelevant to his needs or he needs them more. By this logic you could say the mutants should have continued to pay for air and just be happy regardless of jipped by the man from robocop.

#20 Posted by UlquioKani (1165 posts) -

I understand what you are trying to say but I don't think I agree. They are not raising the prices of games, If that is what you are talking about. If you mean that they don't provide good content to gamers, again I have to disagree. Also I like the Dark Knight, does that make me a young hipster.

#21 Edited by whyareyoucrouchingspock (975 posts) -

@UlquioKani said:

I understand what you are trying to say but I don't think I agree. They are not raising the prices of games

Actually I was refering to DLC. But in regards to game prices, yea, they are. Call Of Duty charges 1/4 more because they know it will sell. A few are trying to bump the price of "hot games".

I was looking at amazon the other day, rather than a pre-order being cheaper Guild Wars 2 is double the price of a typical pc game. Likewise they withhold content and try to resell it at a later date.

#22 Posted by TheManiacsGnome (279 posts) -

It's really to bad that I'm forced to buy all these titles from the major evil corporations. Sure I technically have loads and loads of choices, but bobby's got a gun and says he knows how to use it.

Also complaining about the retail price of the PC version of CoD is dumb, if you don't want to pay the 10 dollars then don't. Activision isn't obligated to do anything other then sell their product at a price that they see as fair, luckily my brain tells me I can see their pricing scheme as unfair and choose not to purchase it. WOW! Finally-Guild Wars 2, 60 bucks is worth it. Don't complain.

#23 Posted by believer258 (12101 posts) -

@whyareyoucrouchingspock said:

@believer258 said:

The difference being that gamers choose to buy video games. The mutants you're describing didn't choose their fate.

Isn't it funny how we bitch about sixty dollar games but not four dollar a gallon gas? Or gallons of milk whose prices have shot up? Or how healthy foods are just plain more expensive than their cheaper, unhealthy counterparts?

(For those in countries other than the US, just change the prices. Pretty certain that it's probably the same story in a lot of places).

What is important in each of hour lifes is somewhat subjective. To a small deprived child in a ravaged African country he probably hasn't played Shogun 2 to my skill level because he cant afford a pc or have any sockets to plug his pc into. This doesnt mean decency should be irrelevant because it's irrelevant to his needs or he needs them more. By this logic you could say the mutants should have continued to pay for air and just be happy regardless of jipped by the man from robocop.

My God.

You are perhaps the dumbest motherfucker on the planet.

Reread my post, please. I fucking said that necessities like fucking air are far more important than fucking godammn video games.

FUCK

You have officially hit my fucking rage button. Are you happy now, dipshit?

#24 Edited by whyareyoucrouchingspock (975 posts) -

@TheManiacsGnome said:

Also complaining about the retail price of the PC version of CoD is dumb, if you don't want to pay the 10 dollars then don't.

Ripple effect. Not dumb. Foresight.

#25 Posted by MikeGosot (3227 posts) -
@believer258: Calm down, man. It's the Internet.
#26 Posted by Little_Socrates (5694 posts) -

@MordeaniisChaos said:

@believer258 said:

The difference being that gamers choose to buy video games. The mutants you're describing didn't choose their fate.

Isn't it funny how we bitch about sixty dollar games but not four dollar a gallon gas? Or gallons of milk whose prices have shot up? Or how healthy foods are just plain more expensive than their cheaper, unhealthy counterparts?

(For those in countries other than the US, just change the prices. Pretty certain that it's probably the same story in a lot of places).

Yeah, exactly. Like, fuck people. It's entertainment. You could easily spend 5 bucks, hop on a bus and spend the day downtown with some buddies and manage to have fun. Who gives a fuck if games cost a pretty reasonable about of money? There are things that actually do cost too much, because they are needed or very important to day to day life.

Also guys, video games are pretty damn cool, ya know?

So, here's the deal. A concert that can change your life, a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to see, say, Roger Waters' The Wall tour, or Kanye West/Jay-Z's Watch The Throne tour? Tickets cost around $80. Most $60 video games are not even CLOSE to that high of quality, and that's why the high price of games is so ridiculous. You could do some really, really life changing things with $60, or even $120. There are games that are worth $60, certainly, but most? Most should probably be lower in price.

However, this topic is kind of dumb, in my opinion. I don't think the situation is nearly that antagonistic yet.

#27 Posted by Dagbiker (6978 posts) -

" I've seen things you people wouldn't believe."

#28 Posted by Gargantuan (1887 posts) -

Games are cheap compared to a lot of other entertainment.

#29 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5077 posts) -

@believer258: I never saw you this angry before. I'm scared.

#30 Posted by TheManiacsGnome (279 posts) -

@whyareyoucrouchingspock:

Yeah, the ripple effect. Much like the Domino effect, is not a theory I would put much stock in.

You know Creative Assembly "Withheld" content and released it as DLC for Shogun 2 right? I guess CA and Sega are easily as bad as EA, Ubi and Activision.

@Little_Socrates:

Er...that's really, really your opinion and without a shadow of a doubt your music tastes. I will buy 5 copies of CoD before I give money to Kanye West, I think I would also blow my brains out if I heard someone within ear shot declare that as a once in a lifetime event. Don't tell me what I spend my money on is "Worth it", it's not up to you.

#31 Posted by GreggD (4510 posts) -

@believer258 said:

@whyareyoucrouchingspock said:

@believer258 said:

The difference being that gamers choose to buy video games. The mutants you're describing didn't choose their fate.

Isn't it funny how we bitch about sixty dollar games but not four dollar a gallon gas? Or gallons of milk whose prices have shot up? Or how healthy foods are just plain more expensive than their cheaper, unhealthy counterparts?

(For those in countries other than the US, just change the prices. Pretty certain that it's probably the same story in a lot of places).

What is important in each of hour lifes is somewhat subjective. To a small deprived child in a ravaged African country he probably hasn't played Shogun 2 to my skill level because he cant afford a pc or have any sockets to plug his pc into. This doesnt mean decency should be irrelevant because it's irrelevant to his needs or he needs them more. By this logic you could say the mutants should have continued to pay for air and just be happy regardless of jipped by the man from robocop.

My God.

You are perhaps the dumbest motherfucker on the planet.

Reread my post, please. I fucking said that necessities like fucking air are far more important than fucking godammn video games.

FUCK

You have officially hit my fucking rage button. Are you happy now, dipshit?

I'm glad someone else is seeing it. I knew this guy was a complete moron, but never had the right opportunity to say it. Seriously, what an asshat.

#32 Edited by whyareyoucrouchingspock (975 posts) -

@TheManiacsGnome said:

@whyareyoucrouchingspock:

Yeah, the ripple effect. Much like the Domino effect, is not a theory I would put much stock in.


It's not a theory, it's happening.

@TheManiacsGnome said:

You know Creative Assembly "Withheld" content and released it as DLC for Shogun 2 right? I guess CA and Sega are easily as bad as EA, Ubi and Activision.


It was Sega. But Yes, being a pro strategy player I was aware. Why?

#33 Edited by UnrealDP (1225 posts) -

@believer258 said:

@whyareyoucrouchingspock said:

@believer258 said:

The difference being that gamers choose to buy video games. The mutants you're describing didn't choose their fate.

Isn't it funny how we bitch about sixty dollar games but not four dollar a gallon gas? Or gallons of milk whose prices have shot up? Or how healthy foods are just plain more expensive than their cheaper, unhealthy counterparts?

(For those in countries other than the US, just change the prices. Pretty certain that it's probably the same story in a lot of places).

What is important in each of hour lifes is somewhat subjective. To a small deprived child in a ravaged African country he probably hasn't played Shogun 2 to my skill level because he cant afford a pc or have any sockets to plug his pc into. This doesnt mean decency should be irrelevant because it's irrelevant to his needs or he needs them more. By this logic you could say the mutants should have continued to pay for air and just be happy regardless of jipped by the man from robocop.

My God.

You are perhaps the dumbest motherfucker on the planet.

Reread my post, please. I fucking said that necessities like fucking air are far more important than fucking godammn video games.

FUCK

You have officially hit my fucking rage button. Are you happy now, dipshit?

Yeah, when confronted by a specimen such as whyareyoucrouchingspock, it's best to pretend he's just a simple troll and move along, but I applaud you for this post, amigo.

#34 Posted by TheManiacsGnome (279 posts) -

Well good fucking luck with that, I'm done here.

Keep the tin foil hat on and continue rocking back and forth, I'm sure it'll all get better soon.

#35 Edited by whyareyoucrouchingspock (975 posts) -

@TheManiacsGnome said:

Well good fucking luck with that, I'm done here.

Keep the tin foil hat on and continue rocking back and forth, I'm sure it'll all get better soon.

But you brought up an off topic point and never explained what it had to do with anything. A game being over-priced or having withheld dlc doesn't make the game itself good or bad.

Even if you say "well, it lowers the value".Shogun 2's average play time is 40 hours. More than a quarter play for 100 hours. For me it was 400 (due to being a pro gamer).

As a matter of fact, Sega was complaining they where giving too much value.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-01-ca-total-war-would-be-really-stung-by-reviewers-if-multiplayer-went

This is a rare case though. All Total War games have been full of huge amounts of high quility content. When it comes to Call Of Duty. It's a 4 hour SP. I know the argument "no one cares about SP". Well, in that case you are paying £39 for a multiplayer game with no SP. Total war delivers both, with more content, cheaper. Superior game. As I said though, rare.

#36 Edited by Little_Socrates (5694 posts) -

@TheManiacsGnome said:

@whyareyoucrouchingspock:

Yeah, the ripple effect. Much like the Domino effect, is not a theory I would put much stock in.

You know Creative Assembly "Withheld" content and released it as DLC for Shogun 2 right? I guess CA and Sega are easily as bad as EA, Ubi and Activision.

@Little_Socrates:

Er...that's really, really your opinion and without a shadow of a doubt your music tastes. I will buy 5 copies of CoD before I give money to Kanye West, I think I would also blow my brains out if I heard someone within ear shot declare that as a once in a lifetime event. Don't tell me what I spend my money on is "Worth it", it's not up to you.

I think you misunderstood my point. Those are two ridiculous concerts that will probably never happen again. There are many more ridiculous concerts that may never happen again, some of them even matching your musical tastes. I would certainly feel burned if I bought Armored Core V and then couldn't go see a Led Zeppelin reunion show this summer. Or Wynton Marsalis, or Tupac's Ghost, or the fucking opera, whatever you like to listen to, my point is that stadium shows, a crazy rave, operas, and musicals cost about $80 to enter maximum (with front-row seats obviously costing more, but you can still see the show for $80 or less) which is only slightly more money than most video games. And most video games are probably not worth more than seeing one of your favorite musicians live, or going to a nearby convention, or getting to meet William Shatner or Adam West at said convention you were already going to, or whatever happens to be the coolest thing you would do with $60. I also said that some of them totally are and that's why there's a problem with simply declaring "$60 doesn't seem that unreasonable."

#37 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

@Little_Socrates: I get way more total enjoyment out of a game, because instead of lasting two hours, it lasts dozens. And I've had plenty of times with mates that were absolutely high points of my life. Probably one of the funnest things I ever did in all my life was with my best friend in his basement getting the Half Life 2 Gnome achievement. It was generally awesome, and there were a couple moments that were pure comedic gold and just a hell of a time to spend with a close

I've spent over 200 hours in Skyrim, and it's been pretty frickin fantastic. Plus, it's been getting me into texturing because of some of the... quality... issues of the vanilla issues, which is cool and useful. The idea that a concert is an absolute better value than a video game is silly. Or anything is an absolute better value than anything else. Especially when you bitch about games being too short for the price but you think $80 for two hours is acceptable. So, maybe not the best example. Sure, concerts are awesome, but no, they aren't a better value. Especially when the best way to listen to music from some perspectives is in a silent room with expensive cans not in the midst of a screaming crowd.

#38 Posted by Little_Socrates (5694 posts) -

@MordeaniisChaos said:

@Little_Socrates: I get way more total enjoyment out of a game, because instead of lasting two hours, it lasts dozens. And I've had plenty of times with mates that were absolutely high points of my life. Probably one of the funnest things I ever did in all my life was with my best friend in his basement getting the Half Life 2 Gnome achievement. It was generally awesome, and there were a couple moments that were pure comedic gold and just a hell of a time to spend with a close

I've spent over 200 hours in Skyrim, and it's been pretty frickin fantastic. Plus, it's been getting me into texturing because of some of the... quality... issues of the vanilla issues, which is cool and useful. The idea that a concert is an absolute better value than a video game is silly. Or anything is an absolute better value than anything else. Especially when you bitch about games being too short for the price but you think $80 for two hours is acceptable. So, maybe not the best example. Sure, concerts are awesome, but no, they aren't a better value. Especially when the best way to listen to music from some perspectives is in a silent room with expensive cans not in the midst of a screaming crowd.

I think Skyrim is totally worth $60. I think there are plenty of games worth $60. And I buy a lot of games at $60! That's why I said there are totally games worth $60 in my post.

But you're ignoring games like Street Fighter X Tekken, inFamous 2, Duke Nukem Forever, and Child of Eden that also cost $60. They are not 200 hours long, they are (subjectively, I suppose) not nearly as fantastic, and they very much still cost $60. And I thought I made an effort to make things more general in my original post in the second half, seeing as how I said one sentence about concerts, but that's the part people hooked into, I guess. I'm not saying "GO SEE KANYE WEST INSTEAD OF VIDEOGAMES CUZ I LOVE KANYE," I'm saying "Not all games should cost $60 (even disregarding quality) simply because they are excellent games that don't change your life and you can do some pretty amazing things with $60, or even $120."

#39 Posted by TheManiacsGnome (279 posts) -

@whyareyoucrouchingspock:

The crux of your whole thread, was that Publishers are evil and have found ways to nickel and dime us or... "Subtly" raise prices. My purpose in bringing the DLC argument up about Shogun 2 was that they left out some pretty major stuff. 3 Clans and Blood, all of those things add up to more then 59.99 (I paid 49.99 at launch). Most major publishers will look for ways to monetize gamers after they have purchased the title, it's a business. Thankfully though, you don't need to purchase any of that. Consumer choice, what a concept.

What I've been trying to say since my first post here is that no one has a gun to your head and you have choices. But based on your total stupidity in saying things like "Total War's campaign is this long so it's worth more then CoD's because it's this long" I don't have high hopes for that. Seriously, I would expect a strategy title like Shogun to have a longer campaign. But, surprise surprise you'll find things like BF3 cost far more to produce and require FAR more assets.

Soooo, you're either stupid or a poor troll. A really poor, whiny troll.

#40 Edited by whyareyoucrouchingspock (975 posts) -

@TheManiacsGnome said:

@whyareyoucrouchingspock:

The crux of your whole thread, was that Publishers are evil and have found ways to nickel and dime us or... "Subtly" raise prices. My purpose in bringing the DLC argument up about Shogun 2 was that they left out some pretty major stuff.

I agree. But again, I never said it didn't. In a very juvenile manner (like many of the posts in this thread) you only brought it up as a means of a personal attack. You see I like it. So you attack it. Dur dur.

@TheManiacsGnome said:

What I've been trying to say since my first post here is that no one has a gun to your head and you have choices.

Irrelevant.

@TheManiacsGnome said:

But based on your total stupidity in saying things like "Total War's campaign is this long so it's worth more then CoD's because it's this long"

@TheManiacsGnome said:

I would expect a strategy title like Shogun to have a longer campaign. But, surprise surprise you'll find things like BF3 cost far more to produce and require FAR more assets.

That playtime was also people repeatedly playing it. On average a player replays Shogun 2, 7.1 times. This is because Shogun 2 has more substance to it's gameplay. Not because it's "really long". Indeed you can dictate the game length. Also Shogun 2 has more assets than Battlefield 3. Expecting mediocrity is a very poor point of view to adopt. Back in the old days when I was around your age the single player of a first person shooter was easily 12 hours. By contrast, Black Ops was around 5. Battlefield 3s around 4. It would be best in the future if you aspired for the best of the best as I do.

@TheManiacsGnome said:

Soooo, you're either stupid or a poor troll. A really poor, whiny troll.

Again, hipster nihilism. Your motive here is fairly transparent. You aren't interested in the topic at hand to even make a logical argument. It's only a very poor guise of a knee jerk instinctual need to attack me personally. I'm very dissapointed in you.

#41 Posted by TheManiacsGnome (279 posts) -

I'm interested in curbing the notion that A) games are much worse then they were throughout the 90's. B) We are in a worse position to make informed decisions when buying games. C) That there is something inherently evil about publishers. D) Don't think you're so important I did this just to come after you and insult a game that I enjoy too. E) I have a copy of the first Shogun, don't assume I'm 15.

The idea that you don't need to purchase CoD is "irrelevant", and yet you'll go ahead and start talking about the 'Substance" of gameplay in one game over the other? IN DIFFERENT GENRE'S! Are you serious!? You know what, scratch all of this. Waste of my time, it's like talking to a wall. FYI, I've only ever met children who repeatedly refer to themselves as "Pro".