http://www.joystiq.com/2010/02/19/valve-announces-metro-2033-will-use-steamworks/
It will support achievements, updates via steam and DLC and game will be defaulted to steam as in you need steam to play game.
Valve announces Metro 2033 will use Steamworks
Seems like all the new THQ games will be using Steamworks now.
Awesome.
Huh? Any game bought over Steam has auto updates, it doesn't have to be fully integrated or require Steam in its retail versions for that. This is a win for Valve, as it forces people who buy the retail version to install it and use it, which in turn means they're potential buyers of more games, but otherwise it's pretty useless for consumers. Why do they feel the need to hype it? I could understand it if it was a multiplayer game, where Steamworks integration means you can easily join with friends and what not, but for single player it's just Valve that's gonna be happy about that...
" Huh? Any game bought over Steam has auto updates, it doesn't have to be fully integrated or require Steam in its retail versions for that. This is a win for Valve, as it forces peole who biy the retail version to install it, but pretty useless for consumers. Why do they feel the need to announce it? I could understand it if it was a multiplayer game, where Steamworks integration means you can easily join with friends and what not, and use their nifty server browsers, but for single player it's just Valve that's gonna be happy about that... "How is it useless now i can have my friends list achievements and so on as i play the game and it will be on my games list for steam.
" @bcooper56 said:I don' t have a credit card at all but i want it in my steam list so ya i never buy games from steam always retail.How is it useless now i can have my friends list achievements and so on as i play the game and it will be on my games list for steam.if you bought it over Steam it would have been in your games list either way. Duh. And yes, achievements are useless. "
Achievements are not useless why else would they be so popular?
They add replay value!!!!
No, achievements are useless. Get a debit card if you're too young for credit card. Also, you're often able to add your retail CD key to your Steam account even if the retail game doesn't require it. They could have done that, instead of force it on people. Forcing it only helps Valve, not the consumer." @Al3xand3r said:
I don' t have a credit card at all but i want it in my steam list so ya i never buy games from steam always retail. Achievements are not useless why else would they be so popular? They add replay value!!!! "" @bcooper56 said:
How is it useless now i can have my friends list achievements and so on as i play the game and it will be on my games list for steam.if you bought it over Steam it would have been in your games list either way. Duh. And yes, achievements are useless. "
" @bcooper56 said:To you maybe? For most gamers it's a nice addition and i don't even have a bank account." @Al3xand3r said:No, achievements are useless. Get a debit card if you're too young for credit card. "" @bcooper56 said:I don' t have a credit card at all but i want it in my steam list so ya i never buy games from steam always retail. Achievements are not useless why else would they be so popular? They add replay value!!!! "How is it useless now i can have my friends list achievements and so on as i play the game and it will be on my games list for steam.if you bought it over Steam it would have been in your games list either way. Duh. And yes, achievements are useless. "
For the uninformed there's difference between Steam sold and distributed games and Steamworks technology integration. For a publisher to support Steamworks it means that they will likely not offer their product with any further DRM than Steam's own, will also use SteamCloud integration and that all achievement functionality and full Steam friends list support (ie, you can join a multiplayer game your friend is playing and create game lobbies) is included. Just because a game is in your Steam games list that doesn't automatically mean it's supporting Steamworks technology, unless it's a modern Source engine game.
That's why I said I could understand it if it was an MP game.... Because that adds meaningful features. For an SP game, it's just forcing people who may not care for Steam to use it (and people who do care could use it without full integration) just to add more potential customers for Valve. It's a win for Valve, great for them, sucks for the few people this will annoy, but really, there's no reason to hype it like the second coming and awesome feature.
" That's why I said I could understand it if it was an MP game.... Because that adds meaningful features. For an SP game, it's just forcing people who may not care for Steam to use it (and people who do care could use it without full integration) just to add more potential customers for Valve. It's a win for Valve, great for them, sucks for the few people this will annoy, but really, there's no reason to hype it like the second coming and awesome feature. "Yes there is a valid reason to hype this. It proves that Steam's growth rate over the last 12 months has been good enough for a successful large scale publisher to integrate full Steamworks support into their products. Steam's success means that the PC platform is far from dead.
Steam has growth within the PC platform, if it grows it doesn't prove the PC market grows, it may simply be taking a larger market share than previously, which isn't necessarily a good thing for the consumer (like if it leads to a monopoly or oligopoly). And again, win for Valve, great for them. Nobody else.
" Steam has growth within the PC platform, if it grows it doesn't prove the PC market grows, it may simply be taking a larger market share than previously. And again, win for Valve, great for them. Nobody else. "Win for us we still get steam where best game sales happen. I don't see how it's bad do you really think it's bad that valve owns most of the market? I mean they put out great sales and such.
" Steam has growth within the PC platform, if it grows it doesn't prove the PC market grows, it may simply be taking a larger market share than previously. And again, win for Valve, great for them. Nobody else. "Please explain with some logic how this major win for Steam is not a major win for the PC gaming people. Steam saw a 200% growth rate over the last fiscal year. The convenience and reliability of the Steam platform/service directly relates to PC sales successes like MW2, Mass Effect 2 and so on.
Please explain with some logic how forcing everyone, who may not want Steam, to install it, even if they purchase the game at retail, or a different digital distribution service they may prefer, is a good thing. Logic bigger than Steam achievements being wtfawesome, and keeping in mind it could still be sold on Steam and have auto updates, ease of use and all that jazz without being a required component for buyers outside Steam.
" Please explain with some logic how forcing everyone, who may not want Steam, to install it, even if they purchase the game at retail, or a different digital distribution service they may prefer, is a good thing. Logic bigger than Steam achievements being wtfawesome. "Most people want steam your just odd guy out they want please the crowd not one odd gamer (AKA you)
" If they end up having no competition do you really think they'll keep having sales? And again, the game could be sold on Steam without full irequired integration, so you'd still get your sales. I'm not sure what you're arguing, so I'll stop here. "Do you actually understand how the retail channel works? It's not only about competition between retailers, it's also more importantly about competition between publishers and their genre competitive products while juggling release dates and marketing to best to keep the channel moving. Steam, like any other retailer, will always have sales because product shelf life eventually forces all products to lessen in value, some then are used as a measure of marketing to bolster support for their next revisions, sequels and newer products which relate to the older, discounted versions while others are eventually age so much that they get discounted to a near 0 dollar value and get onsold as 'Platinum' or GOTY etc editions which are value bundled. All of these things are part of the nature of retailing.
Those people could get it on Steam even if it wasn't forced on everyone so, like I said, use some logic." @Al3xand3r said:
Most people want steam your just odd guy out they want please the crowd not one odd gamer (AKA you) "" Please explain with some logic how forcing everyone, who may not want Steam, to install it, even if they purchase the game at retail, or a different digital distribution service they may prefer, is a good thing. Logic bigger than Steam achievements being wtfawesome. "
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @Al3xand3r said:
" If they end up having no competition do you really think they'll keep having sales? And again, the game could be sold on Steam without full irequired integration, so you'd still get your sales. I'm not sure what you're arguing, so I'll stop here. "Do you actually understand how the retail channel works? It's not only about competition between retailers, it's also more importantly about competition between publishers and their genre competitive products while juggling release dates and marketing to best to keep the channel moving. Steam, like any other retailer, will always have sales because product shelf life eventually forces all products to lessen in value, some then are used as a measure of marketing to bolster support for their next revisions, sequels and newer products which relate to the older, discounted versions while others are eventually age so much that they get discounted to a near 0 dollar value and get onsold as 'Platinum' or GOTY etc editions which are value bundled. All of these things are part of the nature of retailing. "
With that logic any retailer everywhere would have sales so Steam offers no advantage, going back to square 1 of the argument.
" @bcooper56 said:Your complaining that a publisher has chosen to support one PC retail service provider yet you are an unrepentant Nintendo fan. I sense a great disconnect here." @Al3xand3r said:Those people could get it on Steam even if it wasn't forced on everyone so, like I said, use some logic. "" Please explain with some logic how forcing everyone, who may not want Steam, to install it, even if they purchase the game at retail, or a different digital distribution service they may prefer, is a good thing. Logic bigger than Steam achievements being wtfawesome. "Most people want steam your just odd guy out they want please the crowd not one odd gamer (AKA you) "
Ooh, great logic, they're fanboys so they made Steam required. Okay then. At least you stopped pretending it's a benefit to the consumer, even if you had to do that with random trash talking on top." @Al3xand3r said:
" @bcooper56 said:Your complaining that a publisher has chosen to support one PC retail service provider yet you are an unrepentant Nintendo fan. I sense a great disconnect here. "" @Al3xand3r said:Those people could get it on Steam even if it wasn't forced on everyone so, like I said, use some logic. "" Please explain with some logic how forcing everyone, who may not want Steam, to install it, even if they purchase the game at retail, or a different digital distribution service they may prefer, is a good thing. Logic bigger than Steam achievements being wtfawesome. "Most people want steam your just odd guy out they want please the crowd not one odd gamer (AKA you) "
@pause422 said:
" I don't know where this stupid back and fourth shit came from, hes stating something that some people may care to hear, just because you don't care about it Alexander, doesn't mean other people don't. "Boo hoo hoo, if you can't stand my opinion on the subject then don't read it, duh. I didn't tell anyone not to post that shit, I just said what I think of the shit posted. Deal with it.
" @SeriouslyNow said:Please stop using the word logic when you're not applying any of your own. What I described is exactly how the retail channel works for games in general and not only Steam.With that logic any retailer everywhere would have sales so Steam offers no advantage, going back to square 1 of the argument. "" @Al3xand3r said:
" If they end up having no competition do you really think they'll keep having sales? And again, the game could be sold on Steam without full irequired integration, so you'd still get your sales. I'm not sure what you're arguing, so I'll stop here. "Do you actually understand how the retail channel works? It's not only about competition between retailers, it's also more importantly about competition between publishers and their genre competitive products while juggling release dates and marketing to best to keep the channel moving. Steam, like any other retailer, will always have sales because product shelf life eventually forces all products to lessen in value, some then are used as a measure of marketing to bolster support for their next revisions, sequels and newer products which relate to the older, discounted versions while others are eventually age so much that they get discounted to a near 0 dollar value and get onsold as 'Platinum' or GOTY etc editions which are value bundled. All of these things are part of the nature of retailing. "
" @SeriouslyNow said:Good job making yourself sound the maturity level of a 12 year old. Keep it up champ.Ooh, great logic, they're fanboys so they made Steam required. Okay then. At least you stopped pretending it's a benefit to the consumer, even if you had to do that with random trash talking on top." @Al3xand3r said:
" @bcooper56 said:Your complaining that a publisher has chosen to support one PC retail service provider yet you are an unrepentant Nintendo fan. I sense a great disconnect here. "" @Al3xand3r said:Those people could get it on Steam even if it wasn't forced on everyone so, like I said, use some logic. "" Please explain with some logic how forcing everyone, who may not want Steam, to install it, even if they purchase the game at retail, or a different digital distribution service they may prefer, is a good thing. Logic bigger than Steam achievements being wtfawesome. "Most people want steam your just odd guy out they want please the crowd not one odd gamer (AKA you) "
@pause422 said:" I don't know where this stupid back and fourth shit came from, hes stating something that some people may care to hear, just because you don't care about it Alexander, doesn't mean other people don't. "Boo hoo hoo, if you can't stand my opinion on the subject then don't read it, duh. I didn't tell anyone not to post that shit, I just said what I think of the shit posted. Deal with it. "
No that was me telling you off for acting like I told someone not to post things, which I didn't do. But it's okay if it went over your head." @Al3xand3r said:
Good job making yourself sound the maturity level of a 12 year old. Keep it up champ. "" @SeriouslyNow said:
Ooh, great logic, they're fanboys so they made Steam required. Okay then. At least you stopped pretending it's a benefit to the consumer, even if you had to do that with random trash talking on top." @Al3xand3r said:
" @bcooper56 said:Your complaining that a publisher has chosen to support one PC retail service provider yet you are an unrepentant Nintendo fan. I sense a great disconnect here. "" @Al3xand3r said:Those people could get it on Steam even if it wasn't forced on everyone so, like I said, use some logic. "" Please explain with some logic how forcing everyone, who may not want Steam, to install it, even if they purchase the game at retail, or a different digital distribution service they may prefer, is a good thing. Logic bigger than Steam achievements being wtfawesome. "Most people want steam your just odd guy out they want please the crowd not one odd gamer (AKA you) "@pause422
said:" I don't know where this stupid back and fourth shit came from, hes stating something that some people may care to hear, just because you don't care about it Alexander, doesn't mean other people don't. "Boo hoo hoo, if you can't stand my opinion on the subject then don't read it, duh. I didn't tell anyone not to post that shit, I just said what I think of the shit posted. Deal with it. "
" @pause422 said:No, I was obviously correct. Seeing as you look at your responses to people on a forum on the internet as actually "telling them off", but nice try.No that was me telling you off for acting like I told someone not to post things, which I didn't do. But it's okay if it went over your head. "" @Al3xand3r said:
Good job making yourself sound the maturity level of a 12 year old. Keep it up champ. "" @SeriouslyNow said:
Ooh, great logic, they're fanboys so they made Steam required. Okay then. At least you stopped pretending it's a benefit to the consumer, even if you had to do that with random trash talking on top." @Al3xand3r said:
" @bcooper56 said:Your complaining that a publisher has chosen to support one PC retail service provider yet you are an unrepentant Nintendo fan. I sense a great disconnect here. "" @Al3xand3r said:Those people could get it on Steam even if it wasn't forced on everyone so, like I said, use some logic. "" Please explain with some logic how forcing everyone, who may not want Steam, to install it, even if they purchase the game at retail, or a different digital distribution service they may prefer, is a good thing. Logic bigger than Steam achievements being wtfawesome. "Most people want steam your just odd guy out they want please the crowd not one odd gamer (AKA you) "@pause422
said:" I don't know where this stupid back and fourth shit came from, hes stating something that some people may care to hear, just because you don't care about it Alexander, doesn't mean other people don't. "Boo hoo hoo, if you can't stand my opinion on the subject then don't read it, duh. I didn't tell anyone not to post that shit, I just said what I think of the shit posted. Deal with it. "
" @SeriouslyNow said:You're an ass. THQ are a publisher and they saw record sales of their titles on Steam during the lead up to Christmas. This isn't about fanboys, it's about dollars, moolah, dinero and that's all it ever has been about. It's a bonus for PC gamers that THQ have elected to offer full Steamworks integration for their PC lineup because that in turn bolsters the PC as a valid and lively market for future releases. It also means that other publishers may follow suit. I'm not sure what planet you're on, but here on Earth we are experiencing a transition between bricks and mortar retailing to online digital sales channels; it's happening everywhere from music and movies to books and games. Steam and services like it are part of that and when a well known and successful publisher elects to support Steam above other online retail services it solidifies Steam's position in the competitive landscape which in turn goes some way to secure PC gaming's future in a games market where every other destination gaming platform has already gone online in terms of game retailing.Ooh, great logic, they're fanboys so they made Steam required. Okay then. At least you stopped pretending it's a benefit to the consumer, even if you had to do that with random trash talking on top." @Al3xand3r said:
" @bcooper56 said:Your complaining that a publisher has chosen to support one PC retail service provider yet you are an unrepentant Nintendo fan. I sense a great disconnect here. "" @Al3xand3r said:Those people could get it on Steam even if it wasn't forced on everyone so, like I said, use some logic. "" Please explain with some logic how forcing everyone, who may not want Steam, to install it, even if they purchase the game at retail, or a different digital distribution service they may prefer, is a good thing. Logic bigger than Steam achievements being wtfawesome. "Most people want steam your just odd guy out they want please the crowd not one odd gamer (AKA you) "
@pause422 said:" I don't know where this stupid back and fourth shit came from, hes stating something that some people may care to hear, just because you don't care about it Alexander, doesn't mean other people don't. "Boo hoo hoo, if you can't stand my opinion on the subject then don't read it, duh. I didn't tell anyone not to post that shit, I just said what I think of the shit posted. Deal with it. "
No shit it's about dollars. Like I kept saying, big win for Valve, as it forces every buyer of the game, from any service or retail channel, to install it, therefor making him a potential customer of Steam in the future. Where did I dispute any of this? I was the first to say this is a win for Valve and not really the consumer who previously had a choice to support and enjoy Valve's benefits, or go for something else, yet now is forced to use it. You're the one who brought up being a fan of whatever you think so, as if it was relevant to the discussion.
" No shit it's about dollars. Like I kept saying, big win for Valve. But you had to go and say shit about fanboys like that justified it logically. "Oh go fuck yourself dickhead. My comments are logical and my argument hasn't changed one iota since I first replied to you.
Note: Entire post is an opinion. I don't pretend I'm right.
This argument is lulzy.
Steam 's good. As much as I hate to think it, the PC has a dieing market. If it were not for Steam, I believe we would be seeing less and less PC games being made. However, with Steam, publishers have a market that anyone with an internet connection can access, and make purchases from. This also makes it easier for indie games to get out there and make a profit, because they don't have to worry about manufacturing. All they have to do is make sure their product works, and hand it over to Valve (I understand it's more complex than that, but meh.)
@SeriouslyNow: @Al3xand3r: The thing about Steam is that there is no competition. I think this is a good thing. It allows Valve to keep the prices low, because they don't have to worry about beating out the competition. And if they raise the prices too high, people will just back off Steam. They control the PC market right now (IMO), but if they dick around with that control, chances are it'll shit all over them.
@SeriouslyNow: @Al3xand3r: The thing about Steam is that there is no competition. I think this is a good thing. It allows Valve to keep the prices low, because they don't have to worry about beating out the competition. And if they raise the prices too high, people will just back off Steam. They control the PC market right now (IMO), but if they dick around with that control, chances are it'll shit all over them. "Wait... what? No competition means lower prices? That's exactly the opposite of the way things work. The good thing is that Steam does indeed have competition. The plentiful other digital distribution start-ups might not be much of a threat, but retail continues to be point of strongest sales, and they're definitely still competing with retail.
As to the steamworks integration issue, isn't it usually basically for achievements for single player games? Well, here's hoping Valve someday attaches a value to achievements to make them worthwhile. It's weird how only Microsoft have gotten it right with their overall points system.
Take into consideration that PC players are cheep bastards, and will most likely pirate a game before they buy it at a price they find overpriced." @SuperSecretAgenda said:
@SeriouslyNow: @Al3xand3r: The thing about Steam is that there is no competition. I think this is a good thing. It allows Valve to keep the prices low, because they don't have to worry about beating out the competition. And if they raise the prices too high, people will just back off Steam. They control the PC market right now (IMO), but if they dick around with that control, chances are it'll shit all over them. "Wait... what? No competition means lower prices? That's exactly the opposite of the way things work. The good thing is that Steam does indeed have competition. The plentiful other digital distribution start-ups might not be much of a threat, but retail continues to be point of strongest sales, and they're definitely still competing with retail. As to the steamworks integration issue, isn't it usually basically for achievements for single player games? Well, here's hoping Valve someday attaches a value to achievements to make them worthwhile. It's weird how only Microsoft have gotten it right with their overall points system. "
PC Market is very weird. You need to keep prices low so that people won't turn to pirating your game, and it needs to be high enough to make a profit. And you need to make the game good enough so that when some people pirate it, they'll end up buying it anyway.
Just look at Spore.
" @SeriouslyNow: @Al3xand3r: The thing about Steam is that there is no competition. I think this is a good thing. It allows Valve to keep the prices low, because they don't have to worry about beating out the competition. And if they raise the prices too high, people will just back off Steam. They control the PC market right now (IMO), but if they dick around with that control, chances are it'll shit all over them. "At least that kinda makes more sense than the comment you made before you edited.
I don't know where you got that idea from as it was Al3xand3r who is trying to attack Steam and those who support it as I do." @SeriouslyNow: It's like you're trying to attack Steam from any angle you can O.o "
Your logic is kinda broken bro. Less competition never equals lower prices in a free market capitalist model. That said Steam isn't losing competition by THQ aligning themselves with Steamworks, THQ are gaining ground against their competition like Ubisoft because the Steam service is already well accepted by many in the PC gaming community, judging by its steady growth over last few years as well the major spike last year. Companies will have to up their own ante in the online service model. Ubisoft are making all their PC products, starting with Assassin's Creed 2, save progress online rather than to your local PC. Both Steam and the new Ubisoft model use Cloud Computing so that game settings and saves are available wherever you're able log into their services. I don't think that Ubisoft's system will be as good as Steam's because Steam also lets you save your progress locally, lets you mod Source based games and also has an offline mode when you can't get online, whereas Ubisoft's is online only with no, as of yet, modding capability offered.
In terms of your Spore comment in the later post, you need to realise that Spore was heavily pirated on its release due to the limited activations it offered for the product and that it forcec people to be logged in to EA.com to use the game. People were offended at this and protested by pirating it en masse. The later sales success came from its MySpace style social networking focus where casual gamers (tweens and mothers most likely) could make MySpace style personal blogs, play in other players' game environments and download other players' races to use in their own games. This shows and proves that once you offer features which require online access and that those features are attractive, well integrated and relevant to the game itself then many people will be happy to use the game/service with forced online access because in weighing the pros and cons they can see the value and then accept the online nature of the service/product. It also shows that casual gamers and pirates are more often than not mutually exclusive portions of the market.
I think that it's a good thing that THQ elects to use Steamworks because it may make other publishers follow suit and join Steam, (which may in turn simplify the DRM situation for end users) or otherwise make their own offerings more in line with Steam's rather than the pretty poor Ubisoft and Direct2Drive models. Direct2Drive's model for example means that the games which they offer for download are often not compatible with patches and mods due to the way in which Direct2Drive's DRM implementation modifies the games which they offer.
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