(SPOILERS) Prerelease MGSV: TPP Spoiler Discussion

Here's a shot of the ending timeline, for those that are interested in knowing about what role Big Boss's body double plays in the series.

The Medic (and the player) getting duped into playing the role of doppelganger Big Boss is one thing, but that huge retcon of Metal Gear is quite another - that's the part I think a lot of fans will take issue with the most.

Honestly I feel a bit better about the doppelgänger thing knowing that the fake Big Boss isn't secluded to a single game. Now he has a place in the canon, even if it's a flimsy retcon.

I hope the game doesn't paint the real Big Boss as some sort of hero at the end of the day. Even if it isn't the real Big Boss doing all the killing, he's still in the background pulling the strings.

@chaser324: But Kojima has said for years that he wanted to retcon the MG games since he didn't like how they fit within the storyline of the solid games. People should have expected that not everything would be tied up neatly with a final game without slight discrepancies.

People are freaking out on NeoGAF. Not sure why...

Yeah, a lot of people are reacting to this information as if it's the Mass Effect 3 ending. Of all the things you would want the Metal Gear series to go out on, it would be a crazy, dumb plot twist. This might not end up being my favourite Metal Gear story, but I think it's a fitting way to send it off.

In the abstract (and as someone who never played the original MG games) these seem like wild and crazy Kojima twists. I'm curious though of how this is all told for one. And also about ow to view this franchises, in chronological or release order. MGS4 dose a and the church scene doe a whole lot to square the "war" between Zero and BB as an interesting ideological struggle but this kindo f changes that emphasis.

I don't know if it's supposed to be the medic. The character creator does seem to be used to show the face in the mirror briefly. I think people are saying it's the medic because that's the previously existing theory that is closest.

Watching the trailers now kinda make more sense in a way. I don't really have any feelings about the twist other than that

I think people get too caught up in the game conforming with their perception of the story and not just accepting the story how it is so when the game goes in a direction they didn't anticipate they get angry. I'm the kind of person who is willing to accept what ever metal gear/kojima throws at me.

Someone on gaf has a secret stream going, but I am unable to get the link because I just started an account and haven't been approved yet. ughhhh

@devil240z: The problem for me is, the game isn't out yet and we are completely accepting information from a few sources of ambiguous credibility and reasoning as gospel, without an ounce of skepticism.

I'm completely fine if these things turn out to be true, in fact I think I'm warming up to the idea, and based on the execution I might just find it incredible. I just think it's a bad idea to believe anything that can't be widely verified without stringent questioning, even if it's something as relatively inconsequential as minutia of a metal gear solid story.

@weatherking: oh no. I'm taking all the leaks with a grain of salt and waiting for the time when I am actually playing the game.

Good grief. I'm confused. So we're not actually playing as Big Boss in this game? How do we know then that the Snake in Ground Zeroes is the real big boss?

Spoiler city below! Be warned!!

I love how folks on GAF are bitching about it being "the worst writing they've ever seen" when they absolutely have no idea how everything is gonna unfold. You truly never realize how great this community is until you go check out another one.

honestly, that sounds kind of cool. can't wait to see that craziness unfold.

Anyone here got their copy? I've seen many people receiving theirs super early. My limited edition was dispatched this morning (Game.co.uk). Hopefully it will be here tomorrow, if not Friday.

As for the story leaks. I'm all over it. Sounds very Chris Nolan. Sprinkling clues everywhere and having the twist hit you later. Although this goes against what Gregg Miller said during his review. He said something along the lines of "the story was just there", and there wasn't a "Metal Gear Moment". I dunno, this sounds like a moment to me, but it's possible he hasn't seen that ending yet.

More spoilers coming through via NeoGAF. Now talking about how Zero visits Big Boss in the hospital.

I think this is the point where I tune out. I know plenty already, I don't need the minutiae. Now I just want to see the game for myself.

Have the actual details on Quite's clothes been revealed yet? My words and deeds, I need to know how I feel about them.

@indeedcodybrown: According to the Washington Post review, she's infected with a parasite that requires her to absorb water and oxygen through her skin to survive. I'm sure you feel very ashamed.

@teaoverlord: my shame now knows no end.

One feller in the GAF spoiler thread is now even questioning the $60 value of the game based on its content. The delusion is real. Would hate to see how these people would react to paying $80 for games in Canada.

I really hope theres more on the whole taking the story full circle beyond the one line during the credits that says big boss has snake go kill the phantom during the outer haven uprising(IE Metal Gear 1) I was hoping it would add a little more on how Big Boss and Snakes relationship began and what went on in snakes back story up until the events of Metal Gear 1 If only there were a Iraq map in the game and then on that map you can play as snake when he first began doing sneaking missions for the US Army/Green Beret.

I feel like the plan may have been to elaborate on it greatly in the next game (I assume they'd have remade Metal Gear at some point), but then the shit with Konami went down, so the timeline thing was all they could do without delaying the game.

Yeah, Kojima did say he would have to remake MG1 and MG2 to have plot elements of The Phantom Pain fit into the canon. Makes sense now.

I do like the idea of BB sending Snake into Outer Heaven to kill Venom. Makes a lot more sense than him sending Snake into his own base. It would have been awesome if the next Metal Gear game was definitely a remake of the original, and the big twist of it finding out it was Venom who started the uprising and not BB. Simply mentioning it in the timeline, while I like the twist, it bums me out we will never see it fully realized in a game.

Exactly.

Imagine MGS6 you play as 19 year old solid snake as he begins his sneaking career during the gulf war where he is introduced to Big Boss and joins Fox Hound and then is sent to infiltrate Outer Haven, etc etc.

I do think that game will happen, it just won't be a Kojima game. And that is a Metal Gear game I just do not trust. I mean, I'd be ok if they make such a game straight up, as the story is already laid out. But I feel like any new Metal Gear, they will feel obligated to try and mimic the Kojima-ness, and it will come off as just that. An imitation. I'm okay with MG and MG2 remakes if they are just straight up with them.

Edit: I'm also not sure how they could remake those as big open world games like MGSV. It would then feel like making it open world just for the sake of it.

@marc: Do people in japan perceive Kojima to be the raving mad man that we do? Or is he just a really dedicated hardworking creator of videogames? We will see how this all shakes out for Konami and their future in making games at all. The first indicator is going to be how well Metal Gear Online 3 will be supported. Their only other release is Pro Evo. After that they might never make another game.

I wouldn't imagine they do. I mean, it's anime disguised as a video game equivalent of a big block buster movie. Anything the Western world finds crazy/weird/offensive is much more of the norm in that part of the world.

And Konami did have job postings looking for dudes to head up development of Metal Gear games. I do think we will see more, just nothing at that Kojima-level scope. Which I'm fine with if they stickw ith straight up remakes of old games.

Yeah, even if someone capable of replicating what Kojima brought to Metal Gear were to join Konami, I doubt they would be allotted the same amount of freedom. I suspect some of the reasons why Metal Gear is the way that it is are responsible for Kojima's eventual departure.

A gem comment from a stream I was watching:

"Big boss you gotta come back-... yea i know i know you're busy but yo this fuckin guys rubbing ashes on his face.. yea literally ashes on his face you gotta deal with this I knew this was a bad idea i knew it. oh yea Ocelot is torturing again too he tortured huey yesterday now he;s torturing quiet. things are bad "

I'm not sure that is the case. I mean, Konami has been phasing out AAA games for a while now. Kojima was just the last domino to fall. It's not like they could have done it 2 years ago when they were basically half way through the games development. Konami just changed, and it is a huge fucking bummer. I think MGS5 will be the best selling game in the franchise, and Konami will feel stupid. But instead of doing the right thing, they'll just churn out hack MGS games and milk the franchise dry.

I just glanced over this, but thoughts?

@itwongo said:

I just glanced over this, but thoughts?

Just desperate folks doing anything they can to debunk the twist that they don't like. Aka the internet being the internet.

New spoilers for Kaz, Huey, Amanda and Chico:

Amanda successfully led the revolution they were fighting for in Peace Walker.

Chico died in the helicopter crash in GZ.

Huey at this point getting the blame for the MB attack. They also think he died during the MB attack in GZ.

Kaz refuses prosthetics because he does not want to forget the pain that he feels.

@marc said:

@itwongo said:

I just glanced over this, but thoughts?

Just desperate folks doing anything they can to debunk the twist that they don't like. Aka the internet being the internet.

I...I don't know. While yes, I think it is likely the spoilers are true, it does seem weird that's the logo they would choose for the timeline. In the most recent launch trailer, they have the Outer Heaven logo with the bullet hole in the skull, as well as it fully facing the front. It seems odd that they wouldn't use that one for the end logo. And it's true, that's a weird screenshot for him to take as proof. It is unique and not from a magazine, but it also doesn't have much identifiable as a spoiler. On top of that, there are the Skullface inconsistencies, and perhaps the biggest one for me; absolutely no mention of the post credits phone call? I feel like that would be one of the first things mentioned. Yet, NO ONE has spoiled that yet. Again, it just seems weird.

@quarters said:

@marc said:

@itwongo said:

I just glanced over this, but thoughts?

Just desperate folks doing anything they can to debunk the twist that they don't like. Aka the internet being the internet.

I...I don't know. While yes, I think it is likely the spoilers are true, it does seem weird that's the logo they would choose for the timeline. In the most recent launch trailer, they have the Outer Heaven logo with the bullet hole in the skull, as well as it fully facing the front. It seems odd that they wouldn't use that one for the end logo. And it's true, that's a weird screenshot for him to take as proof. It is unique and not from a magazine, but it also doesn't have much identifiable as a spoiler. On top of that, there are the Skullface inconsistencies, and perhaps the biggest one for me; absolutely no mention of the post credits phone call? I feel like that would be one of the first things mentioned. Yet, NO ONE has spoiled that yet. Again, it just seems weird.

It's just people not wanting the twist to be real, so they find any piece of "evidence" they can that could potentially find to contradict it. It is no different than that youtube channel that started the "Big Boss is Grey Fox" crap, and how watching every trailer afterwards all they look for is any hint that can point to it potentially being true, and ignoring the obvious things that point to it being bullshit.

The Zero convo proves it. People point at the scrolling on the side as "evidence" of it being fake. The screenshots started to be taken while the tape was being played (and not yet fully loaded up as text). The last few were taken when the tape was done and the text was all loaded up. Such simple logic that people use to try to disprove things. Because they are all salty over the twist.

But Zero shows up to visit Big Boss and had to ask the doctor which one was him. There you have it.

@marc said:

@quarters said:

@marc said:

@itwongo said:

I just glanced over this, but thoughts?

Just desperate folks doing anything they can to debunk the twist that they don't like. Aka the internet being the internet.

I...I don't know. While yes, I think it is likely the spoilers are true, it does seem weird that's the logo they would choose for the timeline. In the most recent launch trailer, they have the Outer Heaven logo with the bullet hole in the skull, as well as it fully facing the front. It seems odd that they wouldn't use that one for the end logo. And it's true, that's a weird screenshot for him to take as proof. It is unique and not from a magazine, but it also doesn't have much identifiable as a spoiler. On top of that, there are the Skullface inconsistencies, and perhaps the biggest one for me; absolutely no mention of the post credits phone call? I feel like that would be one of the first things mentioned. Yet, NO ONE has spoiled that yet. Again, it just seems weird.

It's just people not wanting the twist to be real, so they find any piece of "evidence" they can that could potentially find to contradict it. It is no different than that youtube channel that started the "Big Boss is Grey Fox" crap, and how watching every trailer afterwards all they look for is any hint that can point to it potentially being true, and ignoring the obvious things that point to it being bullshit.

The Zero convo proves it. People point at the scrolling on the side as "evidence" of it being fake. The screenshots started to be taken while the tape was being played (and not yet fully loaded up as text). The last few were taken when the tape was done and the text was all loaded up. Such simple logic that people use to try to disprove things. Because they are all salty over the twist.

But Zero shows up to visit Big Boss and had to ask the doctor which one was him. There you have it.

I should probably specify that the only part I was doubting was the newest information, the one from the supposed source about the ending. Everything else, including the main twist, I already expected to be true. And again, I could absolutely see all of the leaks about the end being true, and if so, awesome. I think they sound really interesting. I'm just surprised there hasn't been more info dropped, again, especially the post credits scene. I know there has to be one, since literally every single game in the series has had one, including Metal Gear 1 and Metal Gear 2. No way he would stop now, especially with the last game. I agree that people are probably grasping at straws, especially with things like the aforementioned Youtube channel.

@quarters said:

@marc said:

@quarters said:

@marc said:

@itwongo said:

I just glanced over this, but thoughts?

Just desperate folks doing anything they can to debunk the twist that they don't like. Aka the internet being the internet.

I...I don't know. While yes, I think it is likely the spoilers are true, it does seem weird that's the logo they would choose for the timeline. In the most recent launch trailer, they have the Outer Heaven logo with the bullet hole in the skull, as well as it fully facing the front. It seems odd that they wouldn't use that one for the end logo. And it's true, that's a weird screenshot for him to take as proof. It is unique and not from a magazine, but it also doesn't have much identifiable as a spoiler. On top of that, there are the Skullface inconsistencies, and perhaps the biggest one for me; absolutely no mention of the post credits phone call? I feel like that would be one of the first things mentioned. Yet, NO ONE has spoiled that yet. Again, it just seems weird.

It's just people not wanting the twist to be real, so they find any piece of "evidence" they can that could potentially find to contradict it. It is no different than that youtube channel that started the "Big Boss is Grey Fox" crap, and how watching every trailer afterwards all they look for is any hint that can point to it potentially being true, and ignoring the obvious things that point to it being bullshit.

The Zero convo proves it. People point at the scrolling on the side as "evidence" of it being fake. The screenshots started to be taken while the tape was being played (and not yet fully loaded up as text). The last few were taken when the tape was done and the text was all loaded up. Such simple logic that people use to try to disprove things. Because they are all salty over the twist.

But Zero shows up to visit Big Boss and had to ask the doctor which one was him. There you have it.

I should probably specify that the only part I was doubting was the newest information, the one from the supposed source about the ending. Everything else, including the main twist, I already expected to be true. And again, I could absolutely see all of the leaks about the end being true, and if so, awesome. I think they sound really interesting. I'm just surprised there hasn't been more info dropped, again, especially the post credits scene. I know there has to be one, since literally every single game in the series has had one, including Metal Gear 1 and Metal Gear 2. No way he would stop now, especially with the last game. I agree that people are probably grasping at straws, especially with things like the aforementioned Youtube channel.

There also seems to be a secret 3rd ending that nobody has found yet. Could very well be you don't get an end credit scene until then. But who knows!

Also digging the tapes being played in the stream I'm watching. Some Codec-like convos, but instead can be played while you still play. Lots of valuable info in a lot of them.

well, guess we'll have to wait for Metal Gear Solid: Big Boss Goes on Vacation to finally know what Big Boss was up to during the events of The Phantom Pain.

At the beginning of the game, Ishmael sets her on fire as she is attacking them. She gets burnt to shit. By the time she is seen again later in the game, the parasites that seem to be a big part of the story are what's used to repair damage and also give her the new abilities. As a result of this, she now has to breathe through her skin because of the parasites. I guess the reason why Kojima said people would feel bad for drumming up silly controversy over her attire is the fact that it is the result of her being burned alive.

Huey pees his pants

Quiet spoilers:

She is in the opening game, sent to kill snake. The real big boss (ishmael) burns her alive. Badly. She bails out of a window.

Since that, she is infected with the parasites by skullface to fix her body, as her lungs were completely burnt out. Because of the parasites, she breathes and drinks through her skin. A close bond grows between her and Snake. Eventually, MB gets infected with the parasite. She is interrogated by Ocelot and Kaz once they know she has the parasite. You find out she was sent to Snake to infect everyone. To do so, she'd simply have to speak english. She refuses, hence why she does not speak. They torture her with salt water. Snake and Ocelot realizes she is not against them. Code talker speaks a foreign language to her. She then speaks (which she can do, as long as it isn't english). She straight up admits she was sent to take them out, but she refuses to speak english. Ever.

People are still gonna bitch about the fact that she wears a bikini. It is a shame folks will judge her based on what she wears rather than the character itself. She steals the show every cut scene she is in. Outside of her attire, she is one of the most interesting characters in the game.

There is a bonding moment between her and Snake in a scene on MB when it is raining. Those who complain about every little issue in games will have a field day with it. Sadly the point of the scene will be over looked.

Her design is absolutely made to cater to cosplayers as Kojima originally intended. But any sexism is nowhere near the levels of MGS4. Not even close. But of course people are still gonna flip out about it.