How to build a B-...Website?

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N7

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Edited By N7

So, a few days ago, I had an idea: I was going to make a website.
 
Weird as it is to say, I've always wanted a website. It's my "internet dream". I've been attempting here and there for years, since I was new to the internet. It actually ended up working out pretty well at times. I'd sign up for a free website and be amazed at all the content and flexibility I was given. But the reasons for those free websites often varied from joining a video game clan to making one for the hell of it. Since those days, my luck in finding free websites have been pretty much zero. All the good ones are gone, and I can't remember which ones I used to use.
 
The day of owning a website is almost here. I finally convinced some of my friends to get behind me and support this idea. To actually have everyone chip in with actual money(NO MORE FREE WEBSITES!!) and buy a website.
 
For the design of the website, the idea came to me from Giant Bomb, actually. I went through some of their older videos a few weeks ago and found their "How To Build A Bomb" videos, and in one of them, Jeff(Or Ryan, I can't remember) shows off their white board, in which they have actually drawn out how the website is going to look. I saw it. My brain registered it and realized what it was for. But for some reason, it just didn't "click" in my head until a few days ago, at like 3AM when I realized that I had opened up Photoshop and couldn't remember why. Then it hit me. I could actually design the website right there, or lay a general guideline to what it would look like.
 
I'm not quite sure why, but somewhere along the line I started to think that the only people who could "design" a website were, well, designers. Graphic designers, artists, coders, developers, you get the point.  I never really thought of how it could be done, only that you need the magical title of a creative person to make it happen. As it so happens, you don't actually need that.
 
So, for the days of recent, I've been working as hard as I could to churn out a design that looked fantastic. It needs to be fantastic, because I'm picky, and I figure if I'm going to actually do something, I'm going to try to do it right. Or, I'm going to try to get as far as I can before I realize that I'm not very good at this type of thing and whisper in the wind the cries of help that I so desperately crave.
 
Since I was a kid, I've always been about entertaining people. That bell rings true even today. I just like to make people laugh. And when I met my friend Edward in 2007, that expanded greatly. From telling jokes and being sarcastic, I ended up helping him write Machinima's that would end up getting viewed hundreds of thousands of times. We've since grown into great friends over time, even picking up a few extra people to our "posse" along the way. And in doing so, this website is going to be our headquarters. Our base of operations. A place to expand into something different over time, just like how one day Giant Bomb was just a website, and today it's an internet sensation leaving poser sites behind. A sensation outweighing even that of Bieber Fever. It expanded from video games to things like TANG, the Endurance Run, and just about anything else. For some people, it is the internet.
 
Our group have a bunch of things in common, one thing moreso than the others: Metal Gear Solid. We've all been lifelong fans of MGS. It's been my dream, personally, to get me an MGS website that's just about stuff, you know. Just stuff. But then I got to thinking, MGS isn't exactly a hot topic today. It's not much of an "in" thing to discuss, and most people would rather joke around and make fun of MGS than actually talk about it(Given, I'm not white-knighting MGS, people can do what they want). But to us, and all of the people we're associated with, we all share a passion for MGS. I know in my case, I absolutely wouldn't be into gaming if it wasn't for Metal Gear Solid(Sons Of Liberty, in particular). It was a great game.
 
The idea of MGS not being a "hot commodity" right now got me thinking. Since me and all of my friends are all huge fans of it, maybe the site doesn't have to just be about Metal Gear? Maybe Metal Gear Solid is just the foundation for what the website really is; our Headquarters. Our base of internet operations, or inter-ops, if you like Peace Walker.
 
The website would be where we can start new things. Create new skits, new Machinima, anything else we can dream up. The only problem being, where to start? How does one build a website?
 
Domain name? Done. Hosting. Done. Email addresses? Done! But how do you create the pixels and forge the code? That's the question I ask myself, the question I am now asking you.
 
It does sound kind of pathetic, even I'll agree, to say that I worked extremely hard on creating only this(Image below). And now that I have the opportunity to post it for reference, I do feel embarrassed that I've done what I've done. But it's merely an example I was creating that only my friends were going to see, to give them an idea of what the site might look like. So, yeah, it was never going to be seen by anyone other than four people. 
 

No Caption Provided
Personally, I think it looks fantastic. I am a huge fan of the design. Although, I wasn't finished with it, and it would need a LOT more work for it to even be passable as a GeoCity website. This is the most recent version. It's too big, but it's best to work big, that way you can make it smaller, if need be.
 
The thing I'm concerned about is, maybe this will NEVER be a website? Maybe this is only something I can look at and say "Well, at least I tried". I'd be hugely disappointed. Especially from seeing what you can do on the internet. I'm sure it CAN be done, just not how.
 
I was reading this tutorial about some guy making a website entirely with Photoshop, but I got lost almost immediately because my version of Photoshop is vastly different from the one he was using. Different enough to make it impossible to do exactly what he was doing, only because he had already created the code needed to make it a website, and I'd have to do exactly what he was doing, without doing my own thing and following his examples. So, that didn't go very well.
 
And on the subject of tutorials, it seems like I can never find one that relates to the specific question of "How do I take THIS, and turn it into code?". I'm not sure how it's possible, and I don't mean that as in "There's noooo waaay! :(". I mean that as in, how the hell do I do this?
 
I'm sure once I figured out how, it would be very simple. I'm not using this in my bullet-point conference(Not something I'm really proud of, but something that allowed me to learn certain things), but I'm really good at taking things other people made and tweaking the hell out of it until I get it right(Like templates and whatnot). I used to do that YEARS ago with Gaia Online profiles, and I used to be really good at it. But unfortunately, this is something of my own design and I can't just find a template and tweak it into this.
 
I heard something about Adobe Dreamweaver allowing you to take pictures from your harddrive and actually create the code by placing them around and designing the website visually while it creates the code for it. Something like having a disassembled website and using Dreamweaver to put it together.
 
Would any duder with the proper knowledge help a brother? I'm not quite sure where to start with taking that picture and making it into a code to use to actually have a website. I've got the basic design without any of the fancy trimming and added effect-pictures too, if that makes a difference. As I said, this was just an example picture. Like those billboards with an image of what the housing complex is going to look like after demolition.
 
Thanks for reading this, duders. I was originally just going to be like "YO I MAKIN A WEBSITE HOW I DO THIS", but that would have been a waste of space. I also like to explain things in great detail. I hear that's a bad thing sometimes.
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#1  Edited By N7

So, a few days ago, I had an idea: I was going to make a website.
 
Weird as it is to say, I've always wanted a website. It's my "internet dream". I've been attempting here and there for years, since I was new to the internet. It actually ended up working out pretty well at times. I'd sign up for a free website and be amazed at all the content and flexibility I was given. But the reasons for those free websites often varied from joining a video game clan to making one for the hell of it. Since those days, my luck in finding free websites have been pretty much zero. All the good ones are gone, and I can't remember which ones I used to use.
 
The day of owning a website is almost here. I finally convinced some of my friends to get behind me and support this idea. To actually have everyone chip in with actual money(NO MORE FREE WEBSITES!!) and buy a website.
 
For the design of the website, the idea came to me from Giant Bomb, actually. I went through some of their older videos a few weeks ago and found their "How To Build A Bomb" videos, and in one of them, Jeff(Or Ryan, I can't remember) shows off their white board, in which they have actually drawn out how the website is going to look. I saw it. My brain registered it and realized what it was for. But for some reason, it just didn't "click" in my head until a few days ago, at like 3AM when I realized that I had opened up Photoshop and couldn't remember why. Then it hit me. I could actually design the website right there, or lay a general guideline to what it would look like.
 
I'm not quite sure why, but somewhere along the line I started to think that the only people who could "design" a website were, well, designers. Graphic designers, artists, coders, developers, you get the point.  I never really thought of how it could be done, only that you need the magical title of a creative person to make it happen. As it so happens, you don't actually need that.
 
So, for the days of recent, I've been working as hard as I could to churn out a design that looked fantastic. It needs to be fantastic, because I'm picky, and I figure if I'm going to actually do something, I'm going to try to do it right. Or, I'm going to try to get as far as I can before I realize that I'm not very good at this type of thing and whisper in the wind the cries of help that I so desperately crave.
 
Since I was a kid, I've always been about entertaining people. That bell rings true even today. I just like to make people laugh. And when I met my friend Edward in 2007, that expanded greatly. From telling jokes and being sarcastic, I ended up helping him write Machinima's that would end up getting viewed hundreds of thousands of times. We've since grown into great friends over time, even picking up a few extra people to our "posse" along the way. And in doing so, this website is going to be our headquarters. Our base of operations. A place to expand into something different over time, just like how one day Giant Bomb was just a website, and today it's an internet sensation leaving poser sites behind. A sensation outweighing even that of Bieber Fever. It expanded from video games to things like TANG, the Endurance Run, and just about anything else. For some people, it is the internet.
 
Our group have a bunch of things in common, one thing moreso than the others: Metal Gear Solid. We've all been lifelong fans of MGS. It's been my dream, personally, to get me an MGS website that's just about stuff, you know. Just stuff. But then I got to thinking, MGS isn't exactly a hot topic today. It's not much of an "in" thing to discuss, and most people would rather joke around and make fun of MGS than actually talk about it(Given, I'm not white-knighting MGS, people can do what they want). But to us, and all of the people we're associated with, we all share a passion for MGS. I know in my case, I absolutely wouldn't be into gaming if it wasn't for Metal Gear Solid(Sons Of Liberty, in particular). It was a great game.
 
The idea of MGS not being a "hot commodity" right now got me thinking. Since me and all of my friends are all huge fans of it, maybe the site doesn't have to just be about Metal Gear? Maybe Metal Gear Solid is just the foundation for what the website really is; our Headquarters. Our base of internet operations, or inter-ops, if you like Peace Walker.
 
The website would be where we can start new things. Create new skits, new Machinima, anything else we can dream up. The only problem being, where to start? How does one build a website?
 
Domain name? Done. Hosting. Done. Email addresses? Done! But how do you create the pixels and forge the code? That's the question I ask myself, the question I am now asking you.
 
It does sound kind of pathetic, even I'll agree, to say that I worked extremely hard on creating only this(Image below). And now that I have the opportunity to post it for reference, I do feel embarrassed that I've done what I've done. But it's merely an example I was creating that only my friends were going to see, to give them an idea of what the site might look like. So, yeah, it was never going to be seen by anyone other than four people. 
 

No Caption Provided
Personally, I think it looks fantastic. I am a huge fan of the design. Although, I wasn't finished with it, and it would need a LOT more work for it to even be passable as a GeoCity website. This is the most recent version. It's too big, but it's best to work big, that way you can make it smaller, if need be.
 
The thing I'm concerned about is, maybe this will NEVER be a website? Maybe this is only something I can look at and say "Well, at least I tried". I'd be hugely disappointed. Especially from seeing what you can do on the internet. I'm sure it CAN be done, just not how.
 
I was reading this tutorial about some guy making a website entirely with Photoshop, but I got lost almost immediately because my version of Photoshop is vastly different from the one he was using. Different enough to make it impossible to do exactly what he was doing, only because he had already created the code needed to make it a website, and I'd have to do exactly what he was doing, without doing my own thing and following his examples. So, that didn't go very well.
 
And on the subject of tutorials, it seems like I can never find one that relates to the specific question of "How do I take THIS, and turn it into code?". I'm not sure how it's possible, and I don't mean that as in "There's noooo waaay! :(". I mean that as in, how the hell do I do this?
 
I'm sure once I figured out how, it would be very simple. I'm not using this in my bullet-point conference(Not something I'm really proud of, but something that allowed me to learn certain things), but I'm really good at taking things other people made and tweaking the hell out of it until I get it right(Like templates and whatnot). I used to do that YEARS ago with Gaia Online profiles, and I used to be really good at it. But unfortunately, this is something of my own design and I can't just find a template and tweak it into this.
 
I heard something about Adobe Dreamweaver allowing you to take pictures from your harddrive and actually create the code by placing them around and designing the website visually while it creates the code for it. Something like having a disassembled website and using Dreamweaver to put it together.
 
Would any duder with the proper knowledge help a brother? I'm not quite sure where to start with taking that picture and making it into a code to use to actually have a website. I've got the basic design without any of the fancy trimming and added effect-pictures too, if that makes a difference. As I said, this was just an example picture. Like those billboards with an image of what the housing complex is going to look like after demolition.
 
Thanks for reading this, duders. I was originally just going to be like "YO I MAKIN A WEBSITE HOW I DO THIS", but that would have been a waste of space. I also like to explain things in great detail. I hear that's a bad thing sometimes.
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#2  Edited By ShadowVirus

This sounds like a cool idea. 
Do you want someone to help do the code for you or guide you through Dreamweaver. Because it would probably be easier to search for Dreamweaver tutorials, or I could have a look at it if you show all the designs you have for the website.

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#3  Edited By nail1080

If you're not smart enough don't bother. Coding is not something you can just learn overnight.

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#4  Edited By N7
@ShadowVirus: Wowzers. Thanks for the reply! :)
 
But, quite frankly, I don't know.
 
I mean, inside and out, I'd be ecstatic if someone wanted to help with the code somehow. But I do think that's a little unrealistic because that would, without a doubt, be incredibly hard work. There isn't a website right now, and that's because I want to make sure that this design could be possible to forge into a website.
 
I guess this is the problem with people using free websites for so long. You're given a website like "Yep, now customize it anyway you can!", but when it comes to buying a domain and making one, it looks like it's impossible.
 
I'm not really sure where to start at all. How would this even happen?
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#5  Edited By ianmac
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#6  Edited By Pop

I know this will probably be a bad idea but how about trying to add wordpress to your website until you get the design you want, that way you can show people hey look this is my website(and you can blog on it)

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#7  Edited By DeeGee

Dreamweaver have three view options. The coding view, the coding and website view, and the website view. While it's true the website view will create the code as you go, you're going to need to learn code if you want a decent website. The stuff I created with no code was purely for use as an e-portfolio for a student project, nothing I would've been happy letting other people see. It isn't a simple drag and drop tool.

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#8  Edited By alistercat
@nail1080 said:
If you're not smart enough don't bother. Coding is not something you can just learn overnight.
It worked for me.
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#9  Edited By chaser324  Moderator
@N7@ShadowVirus: I'd be willing to throw down with some code if you guys need any additional assistance. I already do a decent amount of pro-bono PHP and JavaScript anyway, so it might as well be for something potentially cool like a gaming site.
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#10  Edited By Jack268

Use <div> tags with backgrounds that are cropped parts of your layout image. I finished a project like this last week and what I did was create what I wanted the layout to look like in Photoshop and then slice it into many small images, which then became the backgrounds of div tags that were positioned to rebuild the website to how it looked in my original photoshop design. 
 
Probably not the way the pros do it, but it worked well enough for me. I might upload a commented version later if you're interested.

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#11  Edited By ianmac

also if you don't when to spend the rest of you life in Dreamweaver manually editing code. think about using a CMS (content management system)   
basically a CMS allows to edit html with very little coding knowalge. 

check out - http://wordpress.org/ - http://www.joomla.org/ - http://drupal.org/

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#12  Edited By chaser324  Moderator
@ianmac: I'd say that without a doubt, he'll want to use some sort of already established CMS. Unless you've got the time and budget to cook up your own, it just really isn't worth it. 
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#13  Edited By Vodun
@N7
You're going to make a website and you " heard something about Adobe Dreamweaver allowing you to take pictures from your harddrive and actually create the code"? Someone in yo group gotta take a class or something man. Dreamweaver is what is known as a WYSIWYG editor, What You See Is What You Get. It, in essence, allows you to build web pages without known code, by just dropping elements onto an empty space. The problem with stuff like that is the code it generates is butt ugly and inefficient. If you're going to make any kind of proper site you need to at least be able to understand the code it generates. 
 
Anyway, I haven't been involved in the actual coding of a page since I was a kid...but i think W3S is a good place to start.  
 
What I am however involved in is the design of pages and apps, and there I can guide you a bit more. I would say that what you have done is a classic mistake of someone without much experience and went for the finished product immediately. You should start much simpler, and not start thinking about graphics and fonts until you have the layout and page structure set. Before you start putting graphics on things you want what is known as a mock up, or wireframe. This is the ugly frame from which you later hang the pretty graphics. At work I use a program called Axure, but it's a bit expensive so maybe try something free like Mockingbird. These allow you to quickly get an idea if the interaction of your site works, and if something is off it's easy to make changes. If you already have graphics set, it's most often much more of a task to implement redesigns.
 
As an example, take the image you made. I could've done something that got pretty much the same point across in five minutes using one of these programs. And if something didn't look ok, another 5 minutes. Once everyone agreed it was good to go, then I'd spend the time to set graphics. 
 
I know a lot of people do their design work straight in PS, but I just personally find it too slow. The basic thing I do feel you need to take away from my comment though is; start simple, get a basic design down, make sure it's fun and easy to navigate the page (have one of your friends test it, preferably a stupid one...if they manage to get around the page most users will), THEN time for graphics fun.
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#14  Edited By N7
@ianmac: @Jack268: @ianmac
 
Those all look really nice, but, for all of those things I see, it's like "Here's a Photagrapher website!" or "Here's one for businesses!" and they all look like that, whereas my design is something that I made for the site. See what I mean?
 
And I don't want to blog. I'm really trying to make this something awesome, not a blog site that talks about Metal Gear. From what I've got planned, it's going to be a full-fledged website. Forums and all. We're going to have features, original content(Like Machinima, articles, all types of things I've got thought out).
 
Also, I apologize in advance, inamac, for this incredibly stupid question, but would using a CMS make it easier to add stuff to the website?
 
Like, here's what I mean, and this is why I seem so stupid about all of this. I've used two types of websites in my time. One was like "Oh hey, there's this system in the control panel that you use whenever you want to add something new to the site", and then there's this weird "You have to manually code an article from the ground up as if you were still coding the site". So, I'm not quite sure which type the -- big-boy, domain-owning, building-your-own-website -- internet uses.
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#15  Edited By alistercat
@Vodun said:
@N7
You're going to make a website and you " heard something about Adobe Dreamweaver allowing you to take pictures from your harddrive and actually create the code"? Someone in yo group gotta take a class or something man. Dreamweaver is what is known as a WYSIWYG editor, What You See Is What You Get. It, in essence, allows you to build web pages without known code, by just dropping elements onto an empty space. The problem with stuff like that is the code it generates is butt ugly and inefficient. If you're going to make any kind of proper site you need to at least be able to understand the code it generates. 
 
Anyway, I haven't been involved in the actual coding of a page since I was a kid...but i think W3S is a good place to start.  
 
What I am however involved in is the design of pages and apps, and there I can guide you a bit more. I would say that what you have done is a classic mistake of someone without much experience and went for the finished product immediately. You should start much simpler, and not start thinking about graphics and fonts until you have the layout and page structure set. Before you start putting graphics on things you want what is known as a mock up, or wireframe. This is the ugly frame from which you later hang the pretty graphics. At work I use a program called Axure, but it's a bit expensive so maybe try something free like Mockingbird. These allow you to quickly get an idea if the interaction of your site works, and if something is off it's easy to make changes. If you already have graphics set, it's most often much more of a task to implement redesigns. As an example, take the image you made. I could've done something that got pretty much the same point across in five minutes using one of these programs. And if something didn't look ok, another 5 minutes. Once everyone agreed it was good to go, then I'd spend the time to set graphics.  I know a lot of people do their design work straight in PS, but I just personally find it too slow. The basic thing I do feel you need to take away from my comment though is; start simple, get a basic design down, make sure it's fun and easy to navigate the page (have one of your friends test it, preferably a stupid one...if they manage to get around the page most users will), THEN time for graphics fun.
Listen to this man. Also, get a Chrome/Firefox plugin called Firebug. It allows you to examine website code. So if you see something you like you can look at the code and see how they did it. I would advise against dreamweaver. What you need is a CMS (content management system) so you can publish stuff without coding knowledge. You just need to get someone to alter the code and skin it for you based on your designs. Then you can publish stuff with a back end tool where you can just type it up and submit.
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#16  Edited By ianmac

There are no stupid question :) 
  
the CMS systems I highlighted are completely re skinned to look like your design.  

A CMS is design to make adding content to your site very easy. giantbomb has one.  
this forum is a CMS of a kind too.

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#17  Edited By chaser324  Moderator
@Vodun:  
Definitely some good advice on keeping the initial designs and prototypes very simple. Any time I'm doing anything with a user interface of any kind, I always start with just pencil on paper sketches and then eventually move things into Mockingbird to help nail down more exact sizing and spacing of elements. Mocking up things in PhotoShop at some point down the line can give you a clear image of what the final product should look like, but it's definitely not the best place to start. 
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#18  Edited By Jack268
@N7: My site is the 'manual coding' thing. I believe a CMS is much better, but I haven't really tried using any myself so I can't really tell you much more.
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#19  Edited By chaser324  Moderator
@N7: The CMS basically just manages all of your content (your posts, images, etc.) on the backend. You can customize how that content is presented in any way you like. 
 
As others have said, please don't go the Dreamweaver route. I haven't tried out any of the more recent versions of it, but I know back in the day it used to create really sloppy table-based layouts. Working directly with your code is going to produce a much nicer product.
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#20  Edited By N7
@Vodun: @Chaser324
 
Right on. This is great information indeed. I appreciate it very much so. I'm sure I'll be able to do some good stuff here.
 
Funny enough though, I was sitting there, looking at this insane wall of text like "Wow, how the hell did this happen? No way I'm going to post this mess", but I'm sooooo glad that I did. Sounds like I was heading for certain damnation if I would have kept on without eventually asking for advice, or, asking for EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE THING THAT COULD HELP ME.
 
I'm looking at all of the links that people have been gracious enough to share with me, but I'm not sure where to start...
 
Maybe, Mockingbird to start a mockup of my site and then a CMS later on to get a feel for it?
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#21  Edited By Jiggah

Using one of the mentioned CMS i.e. Wordpress, Drupal, etc and WYSIWYG programs are nice, but to truly get your site going the right way, you'll need to learn some coding.  Even using CMS and pre-made themes, you'll want to go into the code to make the themes into your vision of how the site should look.  These CMSes are great because they automate a lot of the background stuff that you may not want to deal with i.e. databases and such. 
 
If you don't want to use a CMS, you can try to do everything from scratch, but that also means that you'll need to learn PHP, HTML, and Javascript for programming (although as stated, you'll need to learn this stuff to truly make a unique site) and database design if you want to work with dynamic content.
 
I would also highly recommend playing with something like WAMP, MAMP, or LAMP.  These programs are actually aggregates of multiple programs that allow you to work on a local server on your computer i.e. you won't need a hosting service when working on a website.

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Vodun

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#22  Edited By Vodun
@N7: Sounds like a good idea, but to truly realize your design you need someone that knows how to code it.