Where do you stand with the later two Alien films? (discounting Prometheus)

I still claim to this day that Alien 3 is the best one in the series. Or at the very least, extremely underrated. It feels like many went in to see it after seeing (the much more) Action-packed Aliens, and saw the movie going back to a more haunting and spooky feel of the first movie, and went "wtf is this?! Where are dem guns?!".

That's not at all why I didn't like Alien3. In fact I was looking forward to it knowing that it was sort of a return to the first Alien. But the best one?! mang, u loco.

Its been a while since I have seen 3 and I don't think I've seen the changed version, I own it twice on dvd/br... I should probably get around to doing so at some point. I think its ok. As a sequel to the best movie ever made it is a huge, huge failure.

Resurrection is a weird, weird thing. It is easily the goriest of the bunch, and watched as a dumb, gory horror film it could even be seen as fun. Jeunet/Whedon were really the wrong combination of people for the series. I think it's a gorgeous film, really stylish. I remember having a conversation about this with someone on screened... it feels very French. I think its enjoyable when taken as something separate from the other three. The Face/chest alien birth at the ending is gloriously violent/funny and some of the quirky moments like Winona Ryder trying to drink with boxing gloves on or the basketball sequence are kinda great.

Michael Wincott in anything is always a plus.

edit - also... best use of "From the director of..." on a box ever

Both Alien 3 and Resurrection are The Big Poop. Ugh.

@yummylee: Sorry, didn't want to imply that you specifically didn't like it because of that (truth be told, I didn't even read your post!). :)

And yeh mang, I am loco!

Alien 3 is way better than Aliens but not as good as Alien.

Alien Resurrection isn't very good but Ron Perlman is in it so it's cool.

alien 3, the extended cut with the extra 20 mins is pretty great. fincher's first film, lovingly crafted. popular opinion got whitewashed early on. popular opinion is just plain wrong roughly half the time, but it's carried along with a blinding force. scary.

I can appreciate Alien 3. It's not a "good" movie but it's serviceable. It feels aimless and inconsistent in the narrative. Visually and tonally Alien 3 is striking, but where it counts (in the characters and the story) the pieces just don't fit together like they did in Alien and Aliens.

Alien Resurrection on the other hand is just fucking awful. Don't ever waste your time with that nonsense.

I stand in having zero interest in watching either of them.

Alien 3 is kinda a mixed bag for me. It's a film that looks great, but doesn't really look like Alien/Aliens or feel like it for that matter. It basically doesn't make any sense that there would be an alien egg in the beginning of the film (because weren't the aliens exterminated in Aliens?). I would have to re-watch the films again to get a clear cut opinion as I'm just going on first impressions here.

I will say this: I think Alien 3, like Halloween 3 is being unfairly criticized for being different. That's no reason to hate a film, IMO.

O____________________________________________________________O

LALALALALA I'M NOT HEARING THIS

Lovingly crafted? From what I understand Fincher hated making the movie and wasn't involved in the 2003 edit. And no, I will never be able to understand how anyone could classify Alien 3 as being great. I've still got it fresh in my mind and that film was just a mess, so many scenes that look like they were directed by an amateur and there were so many of these convict characters that I could not simply not give a single shit towards. Not because they're convicts, but because I didn't even know the names of any of them besides... Dillon, I think? The black guy with the glasses.

Parts of the film seem roughly edited, too. I can remember one scene where Ripley goes down to check if the alien really won't attack her, and as it comes towards her the screen goes black, she's questioned by the medical officer what happened or something, and she said she went downstairs to check if the alien would attack her an hour ago. I mean... it all looked so incredibly rushed. Then there was the scene where the jailer gets pulled up by the alien in the cafeteria, but it all happened so sloppily; there was no quick hint or ominous calling card, like watching the alien drop its tail behind him or something, it just kinda happens, but at the same time it wasn't shocking. It didn't give me a jolt, it just... happened and I was left feeling confused. And again, the scenes where some of the convicts get picked off I'd go as far as to say are terrible.

That's not say I think the entire film is bad or anything, Like I said in my OP, roughly around the first 20 minutes I kinda liked. I enjoyed getting to know the surroundings and the incredibly dreary atmosphere of it all, and of course Charles Dance. Just gives one of those naturally believable performances.

They are both decent films. I think the temptation a lot of people have is to compare them to the first two, in which case they are always going to come out looking bad due to the fact that Alien and Aliens are two of the greatest movies ever made.

I think they're both okay. Not anywhere as good as Alien or Aliens but not so bad they're bad. I thought Prometheus was a better film overall than the last two movies in the series.

I may be a bad person for this but I liked Alien^3 because it killed off Newt. I have a serious dislike for children in movies and I think Aliens would have been a stronger movie if Newt was a cat or something.

Well IIIIIII liked it. More than I guessed I would in fact and I found it to be a rather fun action movie. Kinda shlocky and perhaps a lot more B-movie-esque than the other three (such as having one character, Michael Wincott's girlfriend, who's sole characteristic is her ass courtesy of that one particular shot), but it's at the very least watchable.

Here we go. Dunno if anyone watched this yet. Don't say I agree with it. But hopefully it offers a different viewpoint.

EDIT embed didn't work...so http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/movie-defense-force/6678-Alien-3

What really killed Alien Resurrection for me is when they are studying the three Xenos in the one pen, and two look to the other and start killing the shit out of it because ACID FOR BLOOD GEE WE'RE CLEVER GIRLS and the one getting stabbed to death is all like "no! no! I want to liiiive!"

It was stupid because it betrayed the hive-mind intelligence that was alluded to in Aliens. These are senseless, remorseless killing machines and you just gave them emotions. The fuck is wrong with you, Joss Whedon?

There is Alien and Aliens. They never made a third or fourth film.

I believe that's because these were spawned out of the queen that was born out of Ripley, so they've all got dat human DNA in them, including their ability to quickly learn and adapt. I actually loved that scene because it made them look all the more brutal and introduced that added bit of intimidation for their intelligence.

@yummylee: um, the extended cut was his original cut that got slashed by the studio before it's initial release, which is what fincher was upset about. not the only thing you're dead wrong about IMO.

@yummylee: You mention the "2003 edit." Do you mean the studio print? That version does a bit of a better job of fleshing out what the hell is happening. I like Alien3 to a point, but it's definitely a messy, oddball film that could have been so much better. To me the weakest point was the dialogue, loaded with awkward swearing and lines like "They think we're crud."

Still, the movie holds a place in my heart for being very unique in series canon, and I loved Weaver's performance even when delivering ham-fisted lines. My favorite part was when Ripley was stalking the alien in the bowels of the prison, and for such a poorly written film, that scene had one of the best lines of dialogue from any Alien flick IMO. You've been in my life so long, I can't remember anything else. It's imbued with such a weight of Ripley's history and where her life has gone- just devastating and hopeless. So, yeah, weird movie.

Alien: Res, meanwhile, is the worst in the series by far IMO. It just feels superfluous. I like Wincott, too, and it's always good to see Brad Dourif being weird. Only redeeming qualities says I!

This is the best thing about Resurrection

But when you go and give the incredibly alien creatures something relatable like emotions then you've already taken a step toward humanizing them. They're no longer an "other" entity that is alien and unknowable, they have emotions. They have feelings. They can be scared just like us. It almost irreparably damages the mystique of the creature when you know it can think and feel beyond instinct or what the Queen dictates to it.

And even if Alien Resurrection sucks and you're a bad person for liking it, can we at least agree that Prometheus is the worst Alien movie ever made?

@yummylee: You know what they should do? A crossover between Alien and Resident Evil starring Barry Burton and... yeah just Barry Burton. The synopsis is simple, Barry has a weapon and it's really powerful, especially against living things. The end.

@stryker1121: Oh god, yeah, the dialogue is so incredibly awkward, like the scene where she says she needs to go the basement and how that was a ''a metaphor...''. Parts of the film almost seem surreal it's so wonky. But that ''You've been in my life so long, I can't remember anything else'' you mentioned was surprisingly effective, I have to admit. Plus I wanna reiterate that the pep-talk scene was also pretty good, too. In fact Dillon in general was an alright character; was still disappointed that he pretty much became the no1 supporting character once the medical officer died, but he fitted in well. Also, for as strange as that attempted rape scene was, seeing him arrive and smacking the convicts around with a pipe was goddamn awesome.

As someone that enjoys Resurrection. I completely agree with this.

Haven't seen either in a long time. I remember being bored by Alien 3 and thinking Resurrection was just stupid fun.

@oldirtybearon: Hmm, well they certainly still seemed just as ruthless as they always were at least. Only difference was they could now occasionally set up an ambush. I could understand where you're coming from, though. An enemy that is just completely run by instinct can be a terrifying thing, but I think the added intelligence was its way of attempting to not purely make this a lesser rehashing of Aliens. I can't imagine you were a fan of the human/alien hybrid, either? ;)

And I haven't seen Prometheus so I couldn't say. I at least understand that that's even more divisive than Alien 3 so, I'd be curious in finding out where I'll stand once I eventually give it a watch. Though I'm in no hurry in any case.

God that line... I mean it completely contradicts what the fuck it is they're fighting against! He's implying that those acid rounds he hands are supposedly ill-fit to be used against things that aren't living. Oh Barry, you incredible son of a bitch. Aliens vs Predators vs Ash vs Barry would make for a helluva comic strip, though, to be sure. A film? I'm afraid the world still isn't ready for awesomness of such magnitude.

@hh: I was going by what I read on wikipedia and how ''Director David Fincher was the only director from the franchise who declined to participate in the box-set releases'' I mean it's true, you don't even get an intro from him like the other three films did so I assumed this was all a studio joint or by one of the other writers and wasn't handled by Fincher.

@gunstarred said:

Its been a while since I have seen 3 and I don't think I've seen the changed version, I own it twice on dvd/br... I should probably get around to doing so at some point. I think its ok. As a sequel to the best movie ever made it is a huge, huge failure.

Resurrection is a weird, weird thing. It is easily the goriest of the bunch, and watched as a dumb, gory horror film it could even be seen as fun. Jeunet/Whedon were really the wrong combination of people for the series. I think it's a gorgeous film, really stylish. I remember having a conversation about this with someone on screened... it feels very French. I think its enjoyable when taken as something separate from the other three. The Face/chest alien birth at the ending is gloriously violent/funny and some of the quirky moments like Winona Ryder trying to drink with boxing gloves on or the basketball sequence are kinda great.

Michael Wincott in anything is always a plus.

edit - also... best use of "From the director of..." on a box ever

That's hilarious, they need to add "From the writer of Toy Story" to that too.

To elaborate more about why i like Alien 3 better than Aliens the answer is all about atmosphere.

There is none in Aliens. It's an action flick. And i always saw it as a pretty generic one at that. The scenes aren't shot in a creative way, just a bunch of generic marines shooting aliens. All the characters outside Ripley and Bishop were either uninteresting or outright aggravating. Bill Paxton isn't funny, he's just annoying and should have died 15 mins in.

Now Alien 3 has tons of atmosphere. The look of the movie, the cinematography are way more appealing... in an unappealing kinda way. It went back to the more suspenseful and horror ways of the first movie. Sure a lot of the characters are boring and don't have much personality but Clemens and Dillon are great as is Ripley of course. That still makes 3 interesting characters versus 2 in Aliens.

It sort of how i felt with Prometheus. I'll take a flawed story filled atmosphere and beautiful visuals and cinematography that may be lacking in the story and character department over a generic action movie. And to be clear i think that Aliens is even more lacking in the story and character department than Alien 3. Saying that it's worst than Prometheus in that regard might be a stretch but even then it would come down to action vs atmosphere and in that case Aliens still wouldn't win. It certainly doesn't against Alien 3 for me.

Of course Alien remains the superior film. It's basically the best in every categories.

Edit: Forgot to tell about Alien Resurrection. It's bad but i still like it. The action is fine, like it is in Aliens, generic and a bit boring but there's plenty of it anyway. And then there's the characters. Again, not as great as in Alien or Alien 3 but i still like more characters from Resurrection than i do from Aliens. I guess i enjoy watching it about as much as i do Aliens. One is an OK movie with boring characters and the other is a bad movie with better characters... yeah. Whatever they're both fine.

In the end it goes like this for me: Alien > Alien 3 > Aliens/Alien Resurrection/Prometheus. There's two stand out movie in that franchise for me and 3 others that are fine but not memorable.

@pr1mus: I'll agree with you about the Hudson character, and Alien3 does have a superb atmosphere about it, but Aliens just feels more well made; I think it flows a whole lot better than Alien3. They're both just so very different movies, though. But I think Aliens is a far better action movie than Alien 3 is as a... horror movie? Or just as a sc-fi movie in general. I don't dislike Alien 3 for being different than the other films after all, it's just for what it was trying to do, it falls flat a lot of the time imo.

Is it worth going back and watching the original version? Or is the 2003 version the undoubtedly superior cut? If that's the case then, well, I think Alien 3 just isn't for me.

@pr1mus: The whole first hour of Aliens is atmosphere. There's no action in that movie for a huge chunk of it. The bit where they're entering the building in the rain and moving from room to room is all atmosphere.

The scene where they're in the ceiling, the facehugger in the room with newt and ripley, flamethrowing/reasoning with the queen in the egg room. All atmosphere.

@yummylee: I couldn't say between the original and the 2003 assembly cut. I've seen the original only once and didn't necessarily think much of it because i was like 12 years old. I rented it and my mom got pissed though!

I dislike them both. Alien 3 sucks because it makes the last hour of Aliens pointless (plus, it's poorly written), and Alien: Resurrection because it's just plain bad.

I don't hate Alien 3, but I don't like it either. It's incredibly middling. Resurrection though is fucking terrible. No joke, I would rather watch both of the shitty Aliens vs. Predator movies over either Alien 3 or Resurrection. At least they're just stupid mindless fun.

Alien 3 suffers from its problems in production, the script was rewritten, directors changed. This is never a good thing, and a film hardly ever gets away with it, Alien 3 is no exception. While Alien is a sublime sci-fi horror and Aliens is only one of the best action movies ever made, borrowed from countless times since and still looking great so many years later, Alien 3 has not aged particularly well, I don't think it hit the mark at the time and the special effects for the alien are awful in spots.

That said I don't think it's that bad and can accept that you could not have had a direct sequel to Aliens without some bold steps taken as far as the plot goes. Alien Resurrection on the other hand is just ghastly.

I really like Alien 3 the Directors cut which is a far better film than the original cut. Alien Resurrection is just awful.

Mah tigger.

Honestly, I don't like any of them beyond the first one. I think that its an interesting series in that all 4 of the movies seem so different in tone and style from each other, but they don't happen to be very good films. I think I find Aliens to be the most disappointing because it's an action film from the 80's, directed by James Cameron, and it just seems very much like its hitting the action movies beats and nothing else. It seems like he took a lot of those ideas and refined them into a much better film 5 years later

This thread reminded me that i never watched the AvP movies. I should do that. I mean what could possibly go wrong?

I completely forgot that they kill Hicks and Newt between Aliens and Alien 3, that sucks.

Which is the option for every movie "including Prometheus" are godawful?

Ok, that's not fair. I thought the first one had its moments.

@yummylee: I saw them last night and agree with you ... so much lost potential in Alien 3 (also I like Sigourney Weaver bold ... she so hot!!!) Also I do like Resurrection and actually like Wynona´s character as well , altho to be fair a lot more could´ve been done exploring new themes but as an action/dark comedy it works great.

Alien 3 was OK and Resurrection is so bad it's funny. I can live with both.

That something even remotely watchable came from the development mess that was Alien 3 is amazing in and of itself. That it can even be called "good" despite weird pacing, plot holes, and bad dialogue is a downright miracle.

Alien Resurrection is... I dunno. It's been a while since I've seen it, but I remember it being a fun movie to watch. It's definitely a trashy movie, one with nowhere near the worth that the first two and to some extent the third one had, but as cheap "comfort food" entertainment a la the AC/DC to music, it's all right.

I'd take them both over Aliens. I also prefer Terminator over Judgement Day. There is probably some connection there, other than my taste in films just being fucked, I'm just not sure what the connection is.

You're a hipster?

Alien 3 is a fine film. The work print version of the film that you get in the quadrilogy and anthology sets makes up for the bad theatrical version. As far as im concerned Resurrection dosen't exists.

Never cared much for Alien 3. I enjoyed the progression from Alien to Aliens and Alien 3 just seemed like they reigned it back way too much. While Resurrection did go in the direction I was thinking Alien 3 would move towards - it did so with so much blown out Hollywood panache that parts of it were just silly. The idea of Ripley being half alien always did seem cool and full of potential though.

I like Alien 3 a good bit, but I don't hate Resurrection. Parts of it are terrible (like the end), but otherwise it's like a tolerable rip-off of Aliens.

Did you know that while making Alien 3, David Fincher would wear an alien suit while directing? So he could better understand its perspective.

I like Alien 3. Took me years to realize that, and it is a step down from Aliens, but it's good.

My opinion on Resurrection is a bit weird. If it were just some other sci-fi movie, it would be perfectly fine. As an Alien movie, though, it's pretty fucking awful. The design of the Aliens is bad, bringing back Ripley was a total cop out, and the Newborn destroys the last 15 minutes or so of that movie. It's just so incredibly dumb seeing a Queen give vaginal birth.

But again, take all those Alien references out of it and it would be a decent little sci-fi romp. The visual style is nice, if a bit brown, the characters are serviceable fodder, and some scenes are pretty cool, like the underwater sequence.

And for what it's worth, I like Prometheus. Movie definitely has some writing problems but I can look past them. Here's hoping the sequel is better written.