Anyone using Intel HD 4000?

#1 Posted by xyzygy (9899 posts) -

I need a new laptop for school, but I also want to use it to play Guild Wars 2 on. The most attractive one for me is the Surface Pro which is coming out in 13 days, and it has the Intel HD 4000 integrated chipset. Now, I've been doing a lot of searching and this chip is used in almost every single ultrabook I can find that's not custom built and over 1500 dollars. The Surface Pro seems to have some really great specs and is offered at a really great price considering those specs, so it's a no brainer for me to get it.

But, as this will be my only PC (and by far better than the shitbox I have), I would like to play some Guild Wars 2 on it. Obviously, if I could get a gaming machine I'd do it, but I need something very portable and small. So I'm just wondering if there's anyone out there who is using this card and what they think about it? I'm not looking for blast-your-eyes off graphics obviously - I'm getting this mainly as a machine for school. But, something that intrigued me was that at CES journalists were given the game and they played Bulletstorm on it and said it was impressive, though not in the +60 fps territory. I would assume somewhere between 30-40 when they say that.

Specs

#2 Edited by Butano (1728 posts) -

It looks like it works fine on low-med settings

Though I'm not sure which i5 processor the Surface Pro will be using.

PS: I too am in the same boat. Been using my HP laptop for 5 years now and desperately need to upgrade it. Haven't decided between the Surface Pro, Lenovo Yoga, or their new Thinkpad Helix (only if some crazy $500 off sale happens with this one though, cause no way in hell am I paying $1500+ tax and shipping for it).

#3 Posted by TooWalrus (13139 posts) -

I'm curious to see how stuff like WoW will run on the Surface Pro, too. I'm gonna have some spare cash soon and I was considering a laptop or tablet of some sort... I'll have to wait and see.

#4 Posted by believer258 (11683 posts) -
@TooWalrus

I'm curious to see how stuff like WoW will run on the Surface Pro, too. I'm gonna have some spare cash soon and I was considering a laptop or tablet of some sort... I'll have to wait and see.

WoW runs on my old laptop from 2010, so it will definitely run here.
On-topic - I'd actually guess that you could. Crysis 2 runs on Intel HD 2500, if I'm not mistaken, so Guild Wars 2 on low settings is not a stretch.
#5 Posted by TooWalrus (13139 posts) -

@believer258: I didn't say I was wondering if it would run, I said I was wondering how it will run.

#6 Posted by believer258 (11683 posts) -
@Butano

It looks like it works fine on low-med settings

Though I'm not sure which i5 processor the Surface Pro will be using.

PS: I too am in the same boat. Been using my HP laptop for 5 years now and desperately need to upgrade it. Haven't decided between the Surface Pro, Lenovo Yoga, or their new Thinkpad Helix (only if some crazy $500 off sale happens with this one though, cause no way in hell am I paying $1500+ tax and shipping for it).

Judging by this, it will probably run at 720p on low settings. Still, I can't say for sure until it's been tried.
#7 Edited by xyzygy (9899 posts) -

And I also should mention that this really isn't about the Surface Pro, but it's just that EVERY ultrabook uses this chipset now. So even if I was getting a different laptop, it'd be an ultrabook, and the HD 4000 is basically what they're using these days.

@Butano: I think it's the 3317U, but Microsoft weirdly hasn't said anything about it. I was also looking at the Lenovo, but I decided on the Surface because it has a better screen and is 200 dollars cheaper. Plus, the idea of having the keyboard constantly on the thing freaks me out. The Yoga does go up to 8 GB of RAM but I don't think it'd need that much for the extra 200 dollars. Also, The Surface has SDXC expandable storage.

EDIT: This is running on an HD 4000, BUT, the processor is different. He's using an i5 3320M Lenovo laptop. Environment, textures, and character textures on high, LOD distance and animations on medium, shadows and shaders low, Native sampling. No reflections or AA. But I have no idea how this would compare. This is at 1366 x 768

#8 Posted by ch3burashka (5017 posts) -

>integrated

I'm no fancy computer person (that is, I'm not an android), but whenever I see the word "integrated", I turn 360 degrees and walk away. I'm technically playing LoL at 20-60 fps on an integrated chipset, but I don't feel right doing so. I imagine you'll get decent gaming performance on low-mid settings, but I wouldn't trust the Surface as a dedicated gaming laptop farther than I could throw it, or skip it on a lake (which would be farther).

#9 Posted by Ben_H (3319 posts) -
@CH3BURASHKA said:

>integrated

I'm no fancy computer person (that is, I'm not an android), but whenever I see the word "integrated", I turn 360 degrees and walk away. I'm technically playing LoL at 20-60 fps on an integrated chipset, but I don't feel right doing so. I imagine you'll get decent gaming performance on low-mid settings, but I wouldn't trust the Surface as a dedicated gaming laptop farther than I could throw it, or skip it on a lake (which would be farther).

If you turned 360 degrees and started walking wouldn't you be walking toward it?
#10 Posted by xyzygy (9899 posts) -

@CH3BURASHKA: I agree with you that in the past they were garbage, but from what I hear the 4000 is miles and miles beyond what integrated used to be. Surely someone on these forums must have a 4000 and some wisdom to share.

#11 Posted by buft (3306 posts) -

@believer258 said:

@TooWalrus

I'm curious to see how stuff like WoW will run on the Surface Pro, too. I'm gonna have some spare cash soon and I was considering a laptop or tablet of some sort... I'll have to wait and see.

WoW runs on my old laptop from 2010, so it will definitely run here. On-topic - I'd actually guess that you could. Crysis 2 runs on Intel HD 2500, if I'm not mistaken, so Guild Wars 2 on low settings is not a stretch.

Wow ran on my laptop in 2005 and it was integrated intel, wasnt brilliant but playable and in response to the OP Guild wars 2 ran fine for me when i tried it on my newish I-3 with intel HD

#12 Edited by Butano (1728 posts) -

@xyzygy said:

And I also should mention that this really isn't about the Surface Pro, but it's just that EVERY ultrabook uses this chipset now. So even if I was getting a different laptop, it'd be an ultrabook, and the HD 4000 is basically what they're using these days.

@Butano: I think it's the 3317U, but Microsoft weirdly hasn't said anything about it. I was also looking at the Lenovo, but I decided on the Surface because it has a better screen and is 200 dollars cheaper. Plus, the idea of having the keyboard constantly on the thing freaks me out. The Yoga does go up to 8 GB of RAM but I don't think it'd need that much for the extra 200 dollars. Also, The Surface has SDXC expandable storage.

EDIT: This is running on an HD 4000, BUT, the processor is different. He's using an i5 3320M Lenovo laptop. Environment, textures, and character textures on high, LOD distance and animations on medium, shadows and shaders low, Native sampling. No reflections or AA. But I have no idea how this would compare. This is at 1366 x 768

Luckily, the RAM on the Yoga isn't soldered in, so it's an easy $60 or so upgrade separately. Plus it has an extra compartment for a 2nd hard drive SSD. I do have a question with the Surface's SDXC storage though. Is it just for storing music/files/videos, or can you install apps and programs on it too?

EDIT: Sorry, should've been more specific. It has an extra compartment for an mSATA SSD. Not exactly the standard size SSD, but you can get em for $200 on Amazon

#13 Edited by xyzygy (9899 posts) -

@buft: Thanks, very encouraging!

@Butano: I have no idea. But, I do know that one of the main attractions of SDXC cards is that their data transfver rate is crazy fast. I wouldn't be surprised if you could put apps on it. I think it's like 300 MBps

#14 Posted by Butano (1728 posts) -

@xyzygy said:

@buft: Thanks, very encouraging!

@Butano: I have no idea. But, I do know that one of the main attractions of SDXC cards is that their data transfver rate is crazy fast. I wouldn't be surprised if you could put apps on it. I think it's like 300 MBps

Oh wow! That is pretty nuts. I'd mostly use it for school and programming (and light gaming of course), so if it's pretty easy to install a Linux partition on the Pro, I might go for it depending on the cost of the 128GB version. Pretty sure they're still selling it and the keyboard cover separately.

#15 Edited by cloudymusic (1063 posts) -

I played this (briefly) on an HD3000. Ran pretty choppily while solo questing (20-30fps) even at minimum possible settings. HD4000 would obviously be a bit better, but still...it probably won't be very good in very hectic battle situations with a lot of spells going off. Plus, if you want to play any future games, it probably won't be even minimally sufficient for more than another year at most.

The Intel HD chipsets have come a long way and they're great for less-demanding (or older) games, but they're still not very good for somewhat-demanding new releases.

#16 Edited by xyzygy (9899 posts) -

@Keres: That's just the thing, I have a PS3 and 360 for multiplatform games. I won't be doing much PC gaming at all (besides GW2, and I can handle medium-lowish settings) and the types of games I want to play on PC are that sort of "lite" crowd like Hotline Miami, Super Meat Boy, etc. When I want to get into PC gaming I will customize a desktop.

Also, I plan on doing some PS1 emulating on this. My current PC can run PS1 games and it has the shittiest Intel Mobile Series 4 Express chipsets. It's worse than a HD 1000.

@Butano: From my searching, the cost of the 128 version with a keyboard is still less than other Ultrabooks with lower specs. It's priced very well IMO

#17 Posted by 9cupsoftea (652 posts) -

In my experience integrated graphics get outdated far quicker than dedicated gpus - what I mean is, even if you get an equivalent hd4000 graphics card in a laptop, in 5-6 years that card will run games a lot better than the hd4000. I think it's something to do with using the cpu's resources, shared ram and intel's awful gpu tech. They might perform ok now, and certainly with well-optimised mmos, but they'll quickly become useless for gaming. I've used an hd4000 for a short while and managed to play grey matter and a bit of dragon age origins on low settings at a decent framerate, but DA was pushing it harder than I expected (got quite hot and stuttered during large battles).

Every year they claim that this time it will be different and that their graphics are better, but it's never the case. I'd take an outdated gpu with less power over anything integrated, unless it's amd.

#18 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@xyzygy said:

@buft: Thanks, very encouraging!

@Butano: I have no idea. But, I do know that one of the main attractions of SDXC cards is that their data transfver rate is crazy fast. I wouldn't be surprised if you could put apps on it. I think it's like 300 MBps

Have you found out any more about Guild wars 2 on this thing? 
#19 Posted by xyzygy (9899 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@xyzygy said:

@buft: Thanks, very encouraging!

@Butano: I have no idea. But, I do know that one of the main attractions of SDXC cards is that their data transfver rate is crazy fast. I wouldn't be surprised if you could put apps on it. I think it's like 300 MBps

Have you found out any more about Guild wars 2 on this thing?

Not really. The closest thing I guess is that video I posted above. That is running on a Lenovo laptop from around mid 2012. But even then, the processor is different so I don't know how much that would affect things. It's an older laptop too. The settings he had it on seemed pretty good - high environment and textures (including character textures) and medium LOD. Those things are the biggest things I'm looking for.

Basically from what I could find about the HD 4000 is that it will run the game fine, but you won't be able to use settings like bloom, post processing, reflections, shadows, etc.

Surely someone on these forums has a brand new laptop with an HD 4000 (they're on like every ultrabook now) and GW2 that can provide some deets.

What gives me solace that it'll be able to run it fine is that my friend had a 3 year old laptop that she was using to play, and she said it ran good even for that old laptop. Wasn't even an ultrabook.

#20 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@xyzygy said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@xyzygy said:

@buft: Thanks, very encouraging!

@Butano: I have no idea. But, I do know that one of the main attractions of SDXC cards is that their data transfver rate is crazy fast. I wouldn't be surprised if you could put apps on it. I think it's like 300 MBps

Have you found out any more about Guild wars 2 on this thing?

Not really. The closest thing I guess is that video I posted above. That is running on a Lenovo laptop from around mid 2012. But even then, the processor is different so I don't know how much that would affect things. It's an older laptop too. The settings he had it on seemed pretty good - high environment and textures (including character textures) and medium LOD. Those things are the biggest things I'm looking for.

Basically from what I could find about the HD 4000 is that it will run the game fine, but you won't be able to use settings like bloom, post processing, reflections, shadows, etc.

Surely someone on these forums has a brand new laptop with an HD 4000 (they're on like every ultrabook now) and GW2 that can provide some deets.

What gives me solace that it'll be able to run it fine is that my friend had a 3 year old laptop that she was using to play, and she said it ran good even for that old laptop. Wasn't even an ultrabook.

With Taxes comming back I will have a bit of extra money and was looking for something good for college and that can Play guildwars 2 on decently.  
 
Also I now have a bloom phobia because of Mass Effect 3 and Syndicate. 
#21 Posted by xyzygy (9899 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man: Sounds like you are in the same boat as me. It's undoubtedly going be a great device, and the only major leap in specs from another device I can find are ultrabooks around the 1750 dollar range. It's actually priced so well for such a nimble and powerful little device. I don't doubt it'll run Guild Wars 2 great, too

#22 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@xyzygy said:

@The_Laughing_Man: Sounds like you are in the same boat as me. It's undoubtedly going be a great device, and the only major leap in specs from another device I can find are ultrabooks around the 1750 dollar range. It's actually priced so well for such a nimble and powerful little device. I don't doubt it'll run Guild Wars 2 great, too

Only down side is how little space it has.  
 
Just found this 
 
http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/and-the-verdict-of-guild-wars-2-on-windows-8-is/
#23 Posted by xyzygy (9899 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man: Wow that's amazing news. Thank you so much for finding that!!! They got 25 fps on an older Intel HD card (I assume the 3000) and the 4000 will be significantly more powerful. Now I'm PUMPED :)

Yeah, it sucks about the space, BUT I plan on using the cloud for documents and school files, getting a huge SDXC card (like 64GB) for music, and using the core SSD for temporary video files (to be stored on an external HDD) and games. It's a pretty solid plan, exapndable storage is your friend. And it has USB3.0 so you'll be able to transfer files from an external right fast.

#24 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@xyzygy said:

@The_Laughing_Man: Wow that's amazing news. Thank you so much for finding that!!! They got 25 fps on an older Intel HD card (I assume the 3000) and the 4000 will be significantly more powerful. Now I'm PUMPED :)

Yeah, it sucks about the space, BUT I plan on using the cloud for documents and school files, getting a huge SDXC card (like 64GB) for music, and using the core SSD for temporary video files (to be stored on an external HDD) and games. It's a pretty solid plan, exapndable storage is your friend. And it has USB3.0 so you'll be able to transfer files from an external right fast.

So you are getting the Pro one? I really did not read all of the story. 
 
SO which one are you getting? 
#25 Posted by xyzygy (9899 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@xyzygy said:

@The_Laughing_Man: Wow that's amazing news. Thank you so much for finding that!!! They got 25 fps on an older Intel HD card (I assume the 3000) and the 4000 will be significantly more powerful. Now I'm PUMPED :)

Yeah, it sucks about the space, BUT I plan on using the cloud for documents and school files, getting a huge SDXC card (like 64GB) for music, and using the core SSD for temporary video files (to be stored on an external HDD) and games. It's a pretty solid plan, exapndable storage is your friend. And it has USB3.0 so you'll be able to transfer files from an external right fast.

So you are getting the Pro one? I really did not read all of the story. SO which one are you getting?

Oh jesus, of course. The Pro is the only one with an Intel processor, AKA the only one that'll run GW2. The other, RT, is basically the same thing as an iPad. The Pro can do everything a laptop can and more.

#26 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@xyzygy said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@xyzygy said:

@The_Laughing_Man: Wow that's amazing news. Thank you so much for finding that!!! They got 25 fps on an older Intel HD card (I assume the 3000) and the 4000 will be significantly more powerful. Now I'm PUMPED :)

Yeah, it sucks about the space, BUT I plan on using the cloud for documents and school files, getting a huge SDXC card (like 64GB) for music, and using the core SSD for temporary video files (to be stored on an external HDD) and games. It's a pretty solid plan, exapndable storage is your friend. And it has USB3.0 so you'll be able to transfer files from an external right fast.

So you are getting the Pro one? I really did not read all of the story. SO which one are you getting?

Oh jesus, of course. The Pro is the only one with an Intel processor, AKA the only one that'll run GW2. The other, RT, is basically the same thing as an iPad. The Pro can do everything a laptop can and more.

I am having a throw up between this and the Macbook pro retina. 
#27 Edited by clstirens (847 posts) -
#28 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@clstirens said:

@xyzygy: Dude, instead of the surface (do you need the touch screen??) get this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834215672

It's still in your price range, but it's MUCH better for games without breaking the bank.

EDIT: Specifically for this Equipped w/ 2GB NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M.

How well would that run guild wars 2? 
#29 Edited by xyzygy (9899 posts) -

@clstirens said:

@xyzygy: Dude, instead of the surface (do you need the touch screen??) get this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834215672

It's still in your price range, but it's MUCH better for games without breaking the bank.

EDIT: Specifically for this Equipped w/ 2GB NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M.

I'm looking for something very small, portable, yet powerful. Surface Pro is the only thing that fits that bill. I can't lug 17 inches of monitor around with me to school and the library. When I want a rig for gaming, I'll get a desktop that's better than any laptop out there. And yeah, the touch screen is a huge factor because I can actually write notes with the pen instead of typing them.

@The_Laughing_Man: I guess it comes down to a few options there. I like the SPro because I love Windows 8 with a touchscreen, I love it's versatility, and it's really powerful considering its size. The size is the biggest factor though.

#30 Edited by clstirens (847 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man: Some users are reporting using high settings with some ultra and getting "Playable" framerates. I don't have exact number because I'm on a desktop.

However, I can say that the 650m, while not the most powerful card, is the card that makes it into Entry-level Alienware computers, so it's fairly good.

@xyzygy: Ah. Wasn't sure if you had another reason. If that's the case, there isn't much else to recommend., Technically the 4000 will work for you, especially for games like Hotline Miami.

#31 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@clstirens said:

@The_Laughing_Man: Some users are reporting using high settings with some ultra and getting "Playable" framerates. I don't have exact number because I'm on a desktop.

However, I can say that the 650m, while not the most powerful card, is the card that makes it into Entry-level Alienware computers, and I HAVE used an Intel 4000 gpu. The 4000 is barely enough to run a lot of modern games (not counting big stuff like BF3). It had issues running TF2, even.

So high settings with around 40 FPS? I do not know the most about computers.  
 
And ya that is well within my price range. And I could pick up a carry bag with it to boot. 
#32 Posted by clstirens (847 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man: I would assume so. I'm having trouble tracking down benchmarks for GW2 for the 650m, but anything over 35fps is usually considered playable, so I bet it's more along the lines of 40-50fps except in big battles.

Just looked it up, it can max out Just Cause 2 with 50 fps. Here's a video of someone playing BF3 singleplayer on ultra. Average fps is 30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q-c-dFUZqE keep in mind that Multiplayer is much more demanding. Probably can run it on medium just fine, though.

#33 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@clstirens said:

@The_Laughing_Man: I would assume so. I'm having trouble tracking down benchmarks for GW2 for the 650m, but anything over 35fps is usually considered playable, so I bet it's more along the lines of 40-50fps except in big battles.

Just looked it up, it can max out Just Cause 2 with 50 fps. Here's a video of someone playing BF3 singleplayer on ultra. Average fps is 30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q-c-dFUZqE keep in mind that Multiplayer is much more demanding. Probably can run it on medium just fine, though.

Cool. This might be it when taxes come back. Any other advice about getting it? 
#34 Posted by clstirens (847 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man: Awesome

If you go to buy it when your taxes and it's out of stock/you can't find it, feel free to shoot me a PM.

#35 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@clstirens said:

@The_Laughing_Man: Awesome

If you go to buy it when your taxes and it's out of stock/you can't find it, feel free to shoot me a PM.

Any suggestions about getting it? Ive been playing stuff mostly via Wireless on this laptop. Should I invest in a long eather net cable? 
#36 Posted by clstirens (847 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man: You'll get better pings and more consistent connections with a wire. However, unless you're playing FPS (BF3) I wouldn't worry about. I had an Asus G73jh and played BF3 wirelessly on it without issue. Other than that? Get a mouse, and learn how to set your touchpad to disable itself when you've plugged in a mouse.

#37 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@clstirens said:

@The_Laughing_Man: You'll get better pings and more consistent connections with a wire. However, unless you're playing FPS (BF3) I wouldn't worry about. I had an Asus G73jh and played BF3 wirelessly on it without issue. Other than that? Get a mouse, and learn how to set your touchpad to disable itself when you've plugged in a mouse.

I have a mouse and all ways I disable touch pad. Thanks for the help. Ill hit ya up when I get my return. If its more then I think Ill go for the Mac. 
#38 Posted by clstirens (847 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man: Sounds good, happy gaming.

#39 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@clstirens said:

@The_Laughing_Man: Sounds good, happy gaming.

The Macbook Pro retina should run Guild wars 2 very well right? If I pick to go with that. 
#40 Posted by clstirens (847 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man: the 13 inch comes with an Intel 4000 series, so About the same as the OP (28fps in battle). The 15 inch comes with a 650m, but it's a 1gb version. Still good, though.

#41 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@clstirens said:

@The_Laughing_Man: the 13 inch comes with an Intel 4000 series, so About the same as the OP (28fps in battle). The 15 inch comes with a 650m, but it's a 1gb version. Still good, though.

It says 
  • ntel HD Graphics 4000
  • NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M with 1GB of GDDR5 memory
#42 Posted by clstirens (847 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man: I was looking at their site. As long as the one you buy has at least the 650m, you're golden.

#43 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@clstirens said:

@The_Laughing_Man: I was looking at their site. As long as the one you buy has at least the 650m, you're golden.

It looks like the Only differnce between the 

15-inch: 2.6GHz and the retina version is JUST retina which is not supported by Guild wars 2 yet...so maybe sticking with Non retina might be good. 

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