#1
Posted by xyzygy
(8596 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
Here is a link to Kotaku that outlines what is going on and that link also has some PDF files of a restraining order. Apparently they want the hackers such as George Hotz and fail0verflow (I don't think they have their real names) to be put on a restraining order from PS3s. Sounds a little ridiculous to me, having a restraining order put between a device and a human. Last I checked, aren't you allowed to go and buy a PS3 without giving ID? How would that even work?
Personally I don't think this is going to do anything. The hackers can release the keys and info they have to the world, which I don't know why they don't (or have they?) and then this whole problem would be too big for Sony to handle. I am interested to see in how the developments of the hacking go and so I hope that they find some sort of loophole. I mean if they're allowed to hold conventions for this sort of stuff, how can Sony really go after them?
Mr. Hotz got away with the iPhone jailbreaking, after all.
#2
Posted by Cubic
(167 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
I think they already have released the keys, so this is just Sony banging its chest and pretending it has some control over its customers.
Since when is doing what you want to something you own illegal? If I wanted to turn my toaster into a rakish hat, I'd be an idiot (or maybe a genius), but it'd be my legal right to do so if I wished. If Sony's business model can't deal with their customers doing what they want to their PS3s, that's a problem with their business model and not their customers.
#4
Posted by MisterChief
(828 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
I don't think Sony have a leg to stand on. Especially since the majority of the team members are not US citizens and jailbreaking is legal. And how naive does a company have to be in order for them to think they can stop the spread of this? It's the fucking internet.
#5
Posted by nintendoeats
(5970 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
ITs the 10NES chip all over again I guess. Sony owns the rights to the information, even if you buy the hardware. Still, this is silly given that the information is out there and PS3 software has been pirateable for more than 6 months already. Hurting these guys won't get Sony anywhere, because it isn't likely to be a deterrent.
#7
Posted by 02sfraser
(847 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
I don't think it will do anything. Really it is just a press stunt to show Sony do not want people breaking into their systems and you'll be punished if you do. Which everyone knows already but taking legal action shows no tolerance. Very much like that poor Australian fellow who got sued millions for uploading a DS game.
#8
Posted by ZeroKelvin
(53 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
I agree that Sony's actions are probably symbolic rather than expected to accomplish any significant reduction in hacking.
One thing about trademarks (and possibly patents, I'm not sure) is that a company/organization must actively defend their claim over a logo and/or brand or they risk losing the trademark. It could be that Sony is simply reacting to a threat to the brand in a way that demonstrates that the company is aware of the issue and does not condone it. This way, when future challenges come up, Sony can point to past actions of attempting to protect the brand. I think they are just covering all the bases, IMO.
#9
Posted by DaBuddaDa
(284 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
The damage is done and this won't "stop" anything. It is being done because from a business standpoint, in the views of the publishers and shareholders invested in Sony, they have to look like they're doing everything they possibly can.
#11
Posted by mikey87144
(1033 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
I feel bad for Sony. The PSP is the best handheld ever made in my opinion but because of hackers and pirates the system essentially lost all support. Hopefully it won't happen to the PS3 but it looks like that's what's about to happen. The hackers claimed they did this cause Sony removed other OS but Sony did that because Geohot hacked the system through that in the first place.
#12
Posted by mikey87144
(1033 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
@Leptok said:
" Stupid, suing the people that found your monumental fuckup. Nother reason not to own a ps3. "
How was that a fuckup? It's been on the market 5 years and it took this long for it to be hacked. How also is in a reason to not buy a PS3? It really shouldn't affect you if you don't plan on pirating games.
#13
Posted by Leptok
(929 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
@mikey87144 said:
" @Leptok said:
" Stupid, suing the people that found your monumental fuckup. Nother reason not to own a ps3. "
How was that a fuckup? It's been on the market 5 years and it took this long for it to be hacked. How also is in a reason to not buy a PS3? It really shouldn't affect you if you don't plan on pirating games. "
It boils down to the fact that they used the same random number for all their encryption, which rendered it all useless. Just skip to 7 min in.
#16
Posted by ShinAli
(96 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
@Leptok said:
" @mikey87144 said:
" @Leptok said:
" Stupid, suing the people that found your monumental fuckup. Nother reason not to own a ps3. "
How was that a fuckup? It's been on the market 5 years and it took this long for it to be hacked. How also is in a reason to not buy a PS3? It really shouldn't affect you if you don't plan on pirating games. "
It boils down to the fact that they used the same random number for all their encryption, which rendered it all useless. Just skip to 7 min in.
It might not seem obvious to everyone here when you look at how it only got hacked after 5 years, but what actually happened here was monumentally stupid on Sony's part. There is no point in your security system if you do not use random numbers in the parameters where it actually requires a random number. Anyone with some passing knowledge in cryptography will tell you this, while experts will most likely murder you if you ask them about this basic fact.
As for the actions Sony is taking, it's the only thing they can do. I mean, Sony deserves everything they get from this whole debacle, but not the developers and businesses that depend on this platform. I'm a big with being open with the hardware, but this move is the only correct thing they can do, even though it will be futile in the end of it. I want to be able to do anything that is possible with the hardware that I buy; I could care less about the software they ship with.
#17
Posted by Leptok
(929 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
@GetEveryone said:
" @Leptok: Yes, the fuck-up is well known, thanks for pointing that out. To re-iterate Mikey's points: 1. It has taken 5 years to crack; the fuck-up was not monumental. Can it even be implemented practically yet? 2. Why is it a reason to not own a PS3? "
Nobody must have tried very hard. Not yet, but it is of such a fundamental nature that it is basically blown open now. Because it's a shitty and petty thing to sue them after the fact.
#18
Posted by ShinAli
(96 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
@GetEveryone said:
1. It has taken 5 years to crack; the fuck-up was not monumental. Can it even be implemented practically yet?
It is monumental, and completely practical. This allows you to sign absolutely anything; executables, firmware updates, you name it. Whatever uses these signatures can be used on any existing PS3. The only fix is to somehow invalidate all these exposed signatures, which isn't reasonable as that would make the millions of PS3 software out there useless.
#19
Posted by p_p_o_d
(539 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
first off for this legal challange I could go ether way. I think sony is just doing it to buy some time before to slow these guys down before a firmware update aswell as to atleast be doing something to look good for 3rd party pubs.
plus froma qucik look at the legal papers it seems sony is just tossing everything they can think of at them. alot of it wont stick, some of it might.
now as for the hacking.....
hacking the ps3 and figuring out its Private key isnt the iillegal part. that was just nerds being clever + a fault on sonys part designing the ps3. its how they exploited that info that might get them in trouble.
while "jailbreaking" was legal for the iphone since it used a completely original programn to trick the software on the phone (i think), But for the PS3 Geohot was distributing a modified version of sony copyrighted software (his custom 3.55 fw file which he made avalable to download).
Failoverflows idea of making a custom .pup that replaces the ps3's gameOS with Linux is legal once they didnt do it by using sonys code which they where very clear to point out every chance they got.
I think the overflow people are in the clear since most of them live in europe untill SCEE do something but Geohot is in trouble.
#20
Posted by benjaebe
(2782 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
Sony's under an obligation to it's shareholders and business partners to protect their interests, which involves going to court over pointless and silly shit sometimes. They can't just sit back and do nothing. I support the homebrew community and all that, but for them to release the keys all willy-nilly is like opening pandora's box. They might not condone piracy, but you can bet some asshole is working on a backup manager right now.
Also, for anyone considering hacking their PS3 I'd be incredibly hesitant. No one knows what kind of measures Sony has in place to ban your console or who knows what else. If you're going to do it, do yourself a favor and stay offline.
#21
Edited by EdIsCool
(1122 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
@GetEveryone the line coming from fail0verflow is nobody gave a toss until OtherOs was removed, and the fuck up was monumental as it rendered the HyperVisor useless. DMCA exception reasonably likely.
#23
Posted by xyzygy
(8596 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
@benjaebe: But how would they know if you have a hacked system? This hack uses the code that Sony uses to make sure things are verified correctly - if I'm not mistaken, isn't it like using a Loader in an illegal copy of Windows? After using a Loader you're able to download all Windows updates and go online because they think you have a genuine copy.
#24
Posted by benjaebe
(2782 posts)
- 2 years, 4 months ago
@xyzygy said:
" @benjaebe: But how would they know if you have a hacked system? This hack uses the code that Sony uses to make sure things are verified correctly - if I'm not mistaken, isn't it like using a Loader in an illegal copy of Windows? After using a Loader you're able to download all Windows updates and go online because they think you have a genuine copy. "
Because no one actually knows what kind of security measures Sony has in place for the PlayStation Network. I'm no expert on the subject matter, but it seems to be pretty likely that if you're using a custom firmware and connecting to the PlayStation Network there's a chance they'd be able to tell, and who knows what kind of things they're going to put in future firmware updates. If you're planning on running homebrew on your console, I'd highly suggest reading this piece by Digital Foundry which raises a lot of questions about what kind of power Sony does have in this situation. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-psn-jailbreaking
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