Posted by Vod_Crack

@jasonr86 said:

@coolarman said:

@triviaman09 said:

@itwastuesday said:

gta 4 was, is dope

This, goddamn it. This. I'm tired of revisionist history on GTA IV. I love the story and I love playing that game. I've beaten it twice and I still play it.


Yes, yes, yes! They are sane people on this planet!

Posted by PolygonSlayer

I agree with Brad on GTA4, but I remember feeling that stuff about it back then even. It was just boring and I never could relate to the characters in it. I think I played it for about 30 hours or so and just left it, was so bored.

Posted by Eaxis

I enjoyed GTA IV far more than Saints row 3. I got sick of Saints Row's city and the look of it very quickly and one of the reasons I haven't bothered getting SR4. I prefer the mechanics, World, story, physics and attention to detail in Rockstar games.

Posted by frankiebeanz

Ryan Davis would be so disappointed in you guys not following proper podcast dedicate an only talking when introduced.

Edited by SomeJerk

FF14 quests are super boring if you don't read the story.

e: Few minutes later, yep that explains it! I hate to sound like a defender of it but if you're going to skip everything story and text and go to story gameplay, don't complain about boring quests unless you're also ready to out yourself as a person who shouldn't play games with text in it ever. Christ how hard GB needs an RPG guy who sits and reads shit (unless Rorie?)

The zones are boring as hell though.. Until you get a good way into the world, the quests, and motherfucking start reading text and story because that's a huge part of the game.

Edited by biggiedubs

I made it about 4 hours into GTA IV before I got bored. Maybe all the people complaining about the story / gameplay dissonance got to me, because all I could see playing that game was that. You know that the game teaches you how to murder someone before they teach you how to take a cab, or get on a train?

If they had Niko complaining all the way about doing thinks like murdering dudes, and beating up guys, then fine: but don't make me kill someone and then spout a pithy one-liner to Roman.

Maybe if Roman wasn't an unfunny, sexist scumbag then maybe I'd be inclined to beat someone up to save him, but the game did nothing to make me care for his safety.

'This guy's messing with Roman! Better kill him!'

'Really? Do I have to?'

Posted by JBrosk89

Having not played any GTA past 3, or any Saints Row...I really don't care about how people view it now versus how they viewed it while/right after playing it. People's views and opinions of things change over time, especially when talking about something like video games that continually expand and change. Some games hold up, some do not...and sometimes games are held in certain lights by specific people, who will defend them to death. It's one reason why video games fascinate me. I absolutely love Mass Effect 3 MP...understandably, not everyone does. But, I do not take offense to people who despise ME3 or ME3 MP...I can't stand MMO's but I would never scorn people who do. Chill out.

Posted by Redhotchilimist

Weird to hear Brad say bad stuff about GTA4, I remember that GOTY podcast where they were all stoked. I suppose 2008 was a longer time ago than it feels like, but it's weird a game has no merit anymore after five short years. Was never a fan, though.

Really liked Drew and Vinny's adventures this week! It's cool to hear about this stuff.

Have always felt MMOs sound boring. They seem more based on numbers and dumb quests and grinding and loot than action and movement and exciting stages/dungeons and involving stories. I guess I should've tried Tera or something, that's action right? This guy's good post sums up my hopes for an mmo I could maybe get into, if it felt good to play and had some decent story bits along the way.

Regarding MMOs:

The reason the "holy trinity" of Tank/ Healer/ DPS seems like the only possible way to make an MMO today is because most MMOs have systems that boil down to little more than dealing and receiving damage in a vacuum. Positioning rarely matters, mobility rarely matters, aiming and execution of moves almost never matters-- you activate your skill and do X damage, and your opponent hits you back for Y damage.

In that situation, the only roles you really can play are to hit a guy, get hit by a guy, or heal a guy after he gets hit.

The way MMOs grow beyond that is to grow beyond that. To add higher levels of interaction to the combat and the world that make position and movement important-- and force you to do more than click a button and watch your bars.

If positioning mattered, you could have characters that drop onto enemies from above, or charge and ram into them, and would need to find an open area or high ground to make a good attack. If mobility mattered, you could have fast-moving "diversion" characters that would draw aggro, yes, but then actually dodge attacks-- rather than absorbing them-- by running, jumping, and climbing around the arena.

A more active game has more options.

So, when MMOs start giving you more interesting actions to perform between hitting and getting hit, then there will be a wider array of roles to create and be filled. And that is the day people like me who don't give a shit about MMOs anymore might be willing to give them a shot.

Posted by CaLe

Wonder is absolutely the word to describe those first few hours/days with WoW. Some of my most memorable gaming moments belong to those starting zones. I don't know if it would be possible for another MMO to rouse that feeling of real wonder in me again.

Oh and I know some people who want Xbox One in Japan. 2 brothers and their 3 crazy friends, so that's 5 right there.

Posted by fox01313

Interesting bombcast this week guys, oh and @drewbert, might want to try Saints Row3, the writing & story is quite good plus it gives you the options to turn on a lot of the game breaking upgrades (ie. invincibility, infinite bullets, ect.) later in the game but the first couple hours of it are great at showing off the story & should see in those few hours the differences between Saints Row & Grand Theft Auto.

Posted by FoxMulder

Went back to play GTA4 and felt the exact same. I hope Saints Row hasn't spoiled me for when I play GTA5! I wasn't fully excited for the game until that trailer showed hunting which was my favorite from Red Dead!

Posted by ildon

@jeff, Have you eaten an Outback Steakhouse burger? Despite being from a chain restaurant that doesn't specialize in burgers, I think they're really good burgers.

Posted by OleMarthin

@dr_mantas: Yeah i was super hyped for 4 but ended up only playing 8-10 hours, i loved san andreas, played it 2-3 times to completion and loved all the saints row games, i have high hopes for GTA V. Flying air planes was my favorite ting i 4

Edited by JZ

I don't pretend I'm some sort of gangster, so I didn't like any of the gta 4 charaters. There is not a single likeible charater in that game. Busey is a douce, roman is a creepy scumbag, everyone else is a mafia stereotype or dirty cop. If I have to listen to jeff talk about how amazing dowan/playboy x is I'm going to vomit.

Posted by csl316

Their complaints about GTA IV are the same ones I had 5 years ago. Who's crazy now???

Posted by K9

GTA 4 was great. Definitely one of the top 5 games of this generation.

Edited by Zevvion

Brad's complaints are the same I had when I first played that game on release day. It has nothing to do with time, that game always was really boring in almost every way. Without saying any other game was better; I remember the Saints Row 2 advertisement where they said: 'Would you rather...' and then picked a feature from GTAIV and compared to one of Saints Row 2. Again, not saying anyone was better in that regard, but they really pointed out how boring the approach of GTAIV was.

The only thing you did in that game, at least until the halfway point, was just driving from point A to point B and occasionally shooting stuff. The driving was terrible, the shooting worked poorly and the only thing trying to keep it together was the cutscene heavy attitude that focused so much on drama; I just didn't care for any of it. Nothing in that game worked even remotely good.

I am a hypocrite though, because I pre-ordered GTAV. It does look a lot better and I feel like it won't be the same type of game. But somewhere, for whatever reason, it annoys me that people look back at GTAIV and think it's anything more than an attempt at creating a new type of GTA game. It was just so bad. I'm disappointed in myself that other people's opinion on it matter to me. I know that's dumb too.

Posted by Kersplackle

Pretty sure the half of the world is hyped for gta 5 bombcast.

Posted by FirebirdINF

Favorite soundbite from the show:

Jeff: "Homeworld."

Drew: "Yeah!"

Vinny: "Yeah?"

Jeff: "Yeah."


There are three hours of this sublime subtlety.

Posted by bunnymud

As someone that plays FF XIV:ARR is can tell you that Brad is 90% wrong about the game. When you are level 9 you cannot comment on the WHOLE GAME.

Posted by gtb08

Brad, I am so deeply saddened by your lack of interest in GTA IV, and hearing you compare it to Saints Row is literally hurting my insides. Its about the atmosphere! the physics! the music and the story!

Posted by Naberius_Shrike

@bunnymud: I really hate how he keeps talking about how there "isn't enough FF fan service" in the game.

Most of XIV's base ideas are derived from XI (races, subjob/cross-class stuff) with a bunch of mainline nostalgia layered on top. Hell Biggs and Wedge are actually pretty major characters in the story. At this point it feels like Brad just dismisses anything that isn't a MOBA or made by Blizzard.

Also the story (which he probably never got to or ignored completely) has a star-studded voice cast in Japanese with mostly stellar performances. I just don't get how games journalists are so ignorant about stuff that their job revolves around. And no, having to play more games than the average person isn't a valid excuse. It's just pure laziness.

Posted by nomtank

@vinny The League had a paintball knife in one of their episodes. It's as dumb as it sounds

Posted by CharAznable

GTAIV was way too up its own ass for my liking, so I'm glad to hear it get knocked down a peg.

Guy wants to quit his life of crime, only to be dragged back in. What a sophisticated, completely groundbreaking tale for the ages. The game practically reshaped storytelling itself. Games are finally Art, you guys.

I'm exaggerating to be a dick, but I'll take the goofiness of a Saint's Row game any day over GTA's self-seriousness.

Posted by StrainedEyes

Brad needs a vacation, he's been super defensive/grouchy lately.

Posted by Anwar

Didn't Brad say once that he is a guy who loves mechanics in games, right? How the fuck can he appreciate that when he can't find all the features in some games? For example GTA 4. I replayed it a couple of times and and wanted to replay the missions instead of listening to the dialogue in the car or whatever. You know how to solve that problem? Get a cab. You can get through that game pretty damn fast when you do that.

Posted by Anwar

What I also prefer in GTA games compared to other open-world games is the attention to detail, that shit is just fucking crazy. Exploring the world, random chatter from NPCs, the standup comedians, TV, some of it wasn't always funny, but it made the world more believable, Niko stepping on each step when he walks up stairs instead of gliding over that etc. I also love that R* stopped putting stuff from earlier games in there, because it probably wouldn't fit. Like CJ singing along to a song from the radio, which Saints Row apparently loved and made their own thing.

Edited by paulunga

I'm on Vinny's side regarding Saints Row. I did everything in The Third but stopped caring at some point in Saints Row 4 and only did the loyalty and main missions.

Posted by MicahSmith

I really liked the Killzone Merc BETA. To each his own I suppose.

Posted by ripelivejam

never played gta4 myself, but it's weird that sleepy dawgz seemed like the same kind of grounded but was thoroughly entertaining. probably due to improved mechanics more than anything.

Edited by MATATAT

Guess I'm just the opposite of Brad. I hated the driving in Saints Row 3. I sorta got used to it but it was just so absurd and unrealistic that I just wasn't feeling it. GTA 4's driving isn't quite realistic but its based more in real physics.

@strainedeyes: Yeah I was gonna say he seems pretty curmudgeonly on the episode. I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with his points but his arguments for why things were "bad" or "what he wants" were basically non existent. Just being a grump.

Posted by Roomrunner

To y Hawk 3 on PS1 was actually what convinced me to buy a PS2.

Posted by Squintite
@bunnymud said:

As someone that plays FF XIV:ARR is can tell you that Brad is 90% wrong about the game. When you are level 9 you cannot comment on the WHOLE GAME.

This is true, for sure, though I do agree with him on one thing. I have yet to experience that feeling from WoW where you just want to explore the world. There is no chance of finding a unique weapon or item that I really care about. Or camping out to find a special pet. The map makes it tough to just walk around and find stuff. All in all, some great things, like the story, look-and-feel. But the excitement around loot and exploration is just not there for me.

Posted by kuthster

What's with the MMO discussion completely ignoring Guild Wars 2? Not that its the greatest MMO ever, but it seems to fill a ton of the criteria Brad is griping about. . .

Posted by myslead

I thought they'd talk about GTA5 more :(

Edited by sravankb

@anwar: I've heard quite a few people saying that using cabs is a good alternative to driving in GTA IV.

Which I don't get, cause you're basically suggesting I don't drive... in an open world game.

Edited by ImmortalSaiyan

There are some parts of GTA4 that are bunk and were never very good. Such as the mission design, combat and especially the check points, or lack there of. It was too long as well.

Still, the things GTA4 did well it did superbly and at the time nothing matched it.

Posted by ChrisTaran

I just can not agree with Brad's assertion that level 1-10 is bad/boring in FFXIV. I enjoyed the heck out of those levels. And the quests he had issue with I thought were a fantastic intro to the game and the world.

But of course, different things interest different people, but already I can see XIV being on my top 10 of the year.

Edited by Vasper_Knight

How do i get a gold stamp?

Edited by arcn

I really can't wait to hear what the guys think about GTA 5. Some of the previews out there are starting to approach "I now know how film critics felt after screening The Godfather" levels of GTA 4 hype ridiculousness, and I bet this will get worse when the reviews come out.

The guys also forgot to mention one of the worst things about GTA 4 for the PC, which was GFWL. Who the hell thought that not letting you save your game at all, unless you log in to their goddamn service every time was a good idea?

Posted by Hassun

@jeff Mighty no. 9 now has PS4 and Xbox One stretch goals.

Posted by MeatSim

I think GTA4 was a disappointment, but it was still a good game. This time I think I have properly managed my expectations for GTA5.

Posted by MrGtD

@myslead said:

I thought they'd talk about GTA5 more :(

If they even had a copy at the time of recording, they definitely couldn't say a damn word about it.

Posted by troticielo

So not only did Brad manipulate the camera of FFXIV in order to make it look bad/be funny, you guys acted like it was representative of gameplay, blamed it on Japanese society being sexist, and then you came back days later and reiterated it obliquely and completely out of the context that it has nothing to do with Japan and everything to do with you being dicks.

It doesn't matter if this was purely absentminded confusion about something you'd never actually care about, shit's inexcusable.

Posted by Maurdakar

@troticielo: Japanese culture is extremely sexist, so poking fun at it is fine.

Secondly, get a sense of humor. Thirdly, you won't find an FF friendly community here anyways so I doubt its hurting the game and finally' Yes when they make fun of games I like, I laugh.

Edited by ArbitraryWater

It's a bit jarring to remember that Giant Bomb gave Grand Theft Auto IV their first Game of the Year award after hearing some of that talk. But given that the internet at large turned on that game a couple of years ago, I guess it makes sense that sentiment would finally make its way up to Game Journalists on their lofty perches.

Any game receiving that level of hyperbolic praise (single highest scoring game on Metacritic) probably deserves to be knocked down a peg or two but it's something I've noticed happening a lot recently, like with GOTY 2008 runner up Metal Gear Solid 4 being trashed on the bombcast fairly recently as well. Oh, don't worry, I'm sure the backlash against GTA V will happen much sooner once critics start giving it perfect scores and compare it to immaculate art, or something.

Edited by CharAznable

I love that Vinny's greatest wish was to bring something to the last guy in the last row when throwing stuff into a crowd. Even in his fantasies, the dude is adorable and awesome.