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Buscemi

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My Opinion Of That Game They Call Dragon Age 2 (Spoilers)

There's going to be SPOILERS. You have been warned.

Okay, I've never criticized a game before, well, at least not posted it for people to read. But I want to see if others are having the same thoughts as I am. I bet many have bashed or praised it before me on Giantbomb, but I just want to throw my opinion out there, if that's cool?

Okay, so let me set you up here. I absolutely loved Dragon Age: Origins, to such an extent, in fact, that I have played through it at least four full times, the last one with Dragon Age: Awakening. Being just a bit too young to have played the Baldur's Gate series (well, technically I played Dark Alliance II on my Playstation 2), I found it highly exhilarating to play a good ol' role-playing game. I marvelled at the world Bioware had built because it felt whole. What I'm trying to say is that the religions, the stories and descriptions felt magical, like a living, aging world.

Then came the successor, and what a game it has been. Both good and bad, but for my part mostly bad. I've only finished it once so far (on Xbox 360), but I'm planning on running through it at least one more time. My first impressions of the new art style (at least concept art style) weren't that bad. They wanted a new approach, and though I was utterly satisfied with the design of the first game, I wasn't going to go about whining on something so trivial, I mean, we hadn't seen the game yet. Then came the trailers and I was stoked, totally stoked, because this dude just chopped up so many hurlocks!

So I got it, and I played it. And it was totally different. Yeah, I know, why the hell would they make the same game all over again? That's not what I'm trying to say. I'm saying I would've been satisfied with them just expanding the universe: take us to Antiva, Orlais and the Tevinter Empire, stuff like that. Improve the graphics, tweak and add some stuff, and I would've been content. They took us to the Free Marches, true, but they also changed everything! More hack n' slash and less of an RPG game. I feel it would've been better to stick with the voiceless protagonist, mainly because I just want him/her to be me. Sure, it's a personal story about this character, but why can't I name him and change his appearance to another race? Sure, it'd fuck up the story as it is now, but how much harder would it be to evolve it to fit different races?

My gut is just telling me that this is exactly what they did with Mass Effect 2, it's just not done as good as they did then. Mass Effect 2 was (also) in many ways inferior to its predecessor (although very good). More action and less rpg, and that's fine, but that's not what I bought the games for. I bought them for me to be able to change gear and set up tactics, I don't want a hybrid.

One thing I think of when I compare the first and second Dragon Age is that Dragon Age 2 just isn't as epic. Not at all. "It's not supposed to be." are words I've heard, but is that really a valid argument? In the first one were facing the obliteration of all life in Ferelden and in the second one it all starts with the fact that Hawke's mom wants their old house back. Yeah, sure, it escalates after that, but it never had that epic feeling that you're changing things in this world.

The whole fight between the mages and templars just seems ridiculously small in comparison to other things happening in Thedas. Not the struggle for freedom and the need for control, that's very interesting. It's just that this particular fight is done in a way that takes it all to the extreme. Meredith is just a murdering she-devil wrapped in silvery goody-armor, or at least she goes down that path the farther in the game you come. The Circle leader was A-okay in my books, up until the point where he fucks himself up and turns into a demon, for what reason? I'm guessing it's so he can kill Meredith, but she's out of the building so it just ends up with me killing him. Pointless or what?

More reasons why don't not not like Dragon Age 2:

  • Suddenly everybody's a blood mage. Cut your finger and there's blood magic. In the first game, at least it was a bit secretive. This is the reason why I'm actually for the templars. Most of the mages turn fucking crazy sooner or later.
  • Scenery is key, I think, and boy did we get it all right. Mainly re-used city models and some woods. It's super effective! (I did like the Deep Roads stuff though)
  • Anders in the last quarter of the game.

Yes, I realize this is more of a half-angry rant, but this is what I'm feeling. I want the third one to be less like the second one and more like the first. That simple. Sorry if I pissed anyone off by saying something stupid, that's totally like me.
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Buscemi

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Edited By Buscemi
There's going to be SPOILERS. You have been warned.

Okay, I've never criticized a game before, well, at least not posted it for people to read. But I want to see if others are having the same thoughts as I am. I bet many have bashed or praised it before me on Giantbomb, but I just want to throw my opinion out there, if that's cool?

Okay, so let me set you up here. I absolutely loved Dragon Age: Origins, to such an extent, in fact, that I have played through it at least four full times, the last one with Dragon Age: Awakening. Being just a bit too young to have played the Baldur's Gate series (well, technically I played Dark Alliance II on my Playstation 2), I found it highly exhilarating to play a good ol' role-playing game. I marvelled at the world Bioware had built because it felt whole. What I'm trying to say is that the religions, the stories and descriptions felt magical, like a living, aging world.

Then came the successor, and what a game it has been. Both good and bad, but for my part mostly bad. I've only finished it once so far (on Xbox 360), but I'm planning on running through it at least one more time. My first impressions of the new art style (at least concept art style) weren't that bad. They wanted a new approach, and though I was utterly satisfied with the design of the first game, I wasn't going to go about whining on something so trivial, I mean, we hadn't seen the game yet. Then came the trailers and I was stoked, totally stoked, because this dude just chopped up so many hurlocks!

So I got it, and I played it. And it was totally different. Yeah, I know, why the hell would they make the same game all over again? That's not what I'm trying to say. I'm saying I would've been satisfied with them just expanding the universe: take us to Antiva, Orlais and the Tevinter Empire, stuff like that. Improve the graphics, tweak and add some stuff, and I would've been content. They took us to the Free Marches, true, but they also changed everything! More hack n' slash and less of an RPG game. I feel it would've been better to stick with the voiceless protagonist, mainly because I just want him/her to be me. Sure, it's a personal story about this character, but why can't I name him and change his appearance to another race? Sure, it'd fuck up the story as it is now, but how much harder would it be to evolve it to fit different races?

My gut is just telling me that this is exactly what they did with Mass Effect 2, it's just not done as good as they did then. Mass Effect 2 was (also) in many ways inferior to its predecessor (although very good). More action and less rpg, and that's fine, but that's not what I bought the games for. I bought them for me to be able to change gear and set up tactics, I don't want a hybrid.

One thing I think of when I compare the first and second Dragon Age is that Dragon Age 2 just isn't as epic. Not at all. "It's not supposed to be." are words I've heard, but is that really a valid argument? In the first one were facing the obliteration of all life in Ferelden and in the second one it all starts with the fact that Hawke's mom wants their old house back. Yeah, sure, it escalates after that, but it never had that epic feeling that you're changing things in this world.

The whole fight between the mages and templars just seems ridiculously small in comparison to other things happening in Thedas. Not the struggle for freedom and the need for control, that's very interesting. It's just that this particular fight is done in a way that takes it all to the extreme. Meredith is just a murdering she-devil wrapped in silvery goody-armor, or at least she goes down that path the farther in the game you come. The Circle leader was A-okay in my books, up until the point where he fucks himself up and turns into a demon, for what reason? I'm guessing it's so he can kill Meredith, but she's out of the building so it just ends up with me killing him. Pointless or what?

More reasons why don't not not like Dragon Age 2:

  • Suddenly everybody's a blood mage. Cut your finger and there's blood magic. In the first game, at least it was a bit secretive. This is the reason why I'm actually for the templars. Most of the mages turn fucking crazy sooner or later.
  • Scenery is key, I think, and boy did we get it all right. Mainly re-used city models and some woods. It's super effective! (I did like the Deep Roads stuff though)
  • Anders in the last quarter of the game.

Yes, I realize this is more of a half-angry rant, but this is what I'm feeling. I want the third one to be less like the second one and more like the first. That simple. Sorry if I pissed anyone off by saying something stupid, that's totally like me.
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benjaebe

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Edited By benjaebe

There's actually a legitimate reason for why it seems every damn mage Hawke runs into is a blood mage. Unfortunately they hid most of it in journal and codex entries you find throughout the game. If you don't read through that I think you lose out on a fair bit of story. Not that this is any excuse for how they presented it, but I was surprised when I read through them and understood why Kirkwall is such a shitty place.
I didn't mind so much that the story was smaller in scope. There's been plenty of stories of recruiting allies to team up against the big bad that threatens the world. At least they tried something different. It might not have worked out all that well, but at least they tried.

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valrog

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Edited By valrog
@Titus:  I agree with you. More or less.

I would like to add one more reason why to hate it. Petrice. I DESPISED her. Surely I can't be the only one? But the false impression of having a choice didn't let me kill her. Could have prevented half of the things that went down...
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@valrog said:
" @Titus:  I agree with you. More or less.I would like to add one more reason why to hate it. Petrice. I DESPISED her. Surely I can't be the only one? But the false impression of having a choice didn't let me kill her. Could have prevented half of the things that went down... "
And then the game ends 8 hours in.  Hawke is arrested for killing a Chantry sister, the qunari attack the city and there's no champion to kill them, and there's no Dragon Age III because there's no Chantry in Kirkwall for Anders to blow up.

Maybe that's what people need, a throwback to old adventure games that can become unwinnable if you make the wrong choice.  Even better, you don't even realize you made the wrong choice until 4 hours later.
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Murray

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Edited By Murray

Oh God, how I repeated "Well, that's fucking dumb" while playing this game. The frankenstein-mage, Anders being batcrazy, the elves looking like the dudes from Avatar..
That said, I do prefer Mass Effect 2.

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valrog

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Edited By valrog
@Brodehouse:  I wouldn't mind that, actually. Would add quite some replay value at least.

Anyway, the lack of free will, or how your choices don't matter at all is what bothers me the most. Perfect example of this is the last stand, where no matter who you side with, it rolls out the exact same way. Origins gave you a lot more freedom in that regard.
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xyzygy

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Edited By xyzygy

It's going to be a long time before I can put that game in and start with my Female Mage. It really left a bad taste in my mouth. Quite possibly the most disappointed I've been by a game, ever.

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Buscemi

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Edited By Buscemi
@Brodehouse said:
" @valrog said:
" @Titus:  I agree with you. More or less.I would like to add one more reason why to hate it. Petrice. I DESPISED her. Surely I can't be the only one? But the false impression of having a choice didn't let me kill her. Could have prevented half of the things that went down... "
And then the game ends 8 hours in.  Hawke is arrested for killing a Chantry sister, the qunari attack the city and there's no champion to kill them, and there's no Dragon Age III because there's no Chantry in Kirkwall for Anders to blow up.Maybe that's what people need, a throwback to old adventure games that can become unwinnable if you make the wrong choice.  Even better, you don't even realize you made the wrong choice until 4 hours later. "
That's true, but it's undeniable that there are a bunch of characters that are just there to be hated. Like real life, huh? That's deep.

Man, Anders was my favourite character in Awakening and I was dying for him to be in Dragon Age 2, and I guess he was pretty good for the first half, but man did he fuck things up.
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valrog

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Edited By valrog
@Titus:  After everything I did for him... He did it anyway.
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Buscemi

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Edited By Buscemi
@valrog: And the worst thing is that I was so deep into the mage corner that I couldn't back down and kill the bastard, I needed him for the healing. So I had to put up with his moral agenda for the rest of the damned game!
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valrog

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Edited By valrog
@Titus:  Same here, looks like I'll have to play a Healer in every Dragon Age game, since you can't really rely on others anymore...
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Edited By Scotto

The entire plot of this game from the second Anders blows up the Chantry onwards, is fucking stupid.  I still maintain that the compressed development schedule caused them to just cut a big part of the story, and suddenly funnel you towards the ridiculous ending this game has.


Vinny described it best in the Bombcast - everyone just suddenly begins making the dumbest decisions imaginable, all in service of quickly accelerating and ending the story/game.  As a result, Anders makes a ridiculous choice, then Meredith makes a ridiculous decision to wipe out all the mages and marches away despite the fact that the Chantry terrorist was sitting right in front of her, then the First Enchanter suddenly makes a ridiculous decision to invoke blood magic to turn himself into a big corpse monster and attack the very people who were fighting alongside him, then Meredith turns all glowy eyed batshit crazy and gains the ability to jump 50 feet in the air and bring statues to life, despite looking and acting more or less sane not an hour earlier.

Then your big finale is essentially "And he was never seen again.  The end."  What a shit show.

- Scott
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wrighteous86

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Edited By wrighteous86
@Scotto said:
The entire plot of this game from the second Anders blows up the Chantry onwards, is fucking stupid.  I still maintain that the compressed development schedule caused them to just cut a big part of the story, and suddenly funnel you towards the ridiculous ending this game has.

Vinny described it best in the Bombcast - everyone just suddenly begins making the dumbest decisions imaginable, all in service of quickly accelerating and ending the story/game.  As a result, Anders makes a ridiculous choice, then Meredith makes a ridiculous decision to wipe out all the mages and marches away despite the fact that the Chantry terrorist was sitting right in front of her, then the First Enchanter suddenly makes a ridiculous decision to invoke blood magic to turn himself into a big corpse monster and attack the very people who were fighting alongside him, then Meredith turns all glowy eyed batshit crazy and gains the ability to jump 50 feet in the air and bring statues to life, despite looking and acting more or less sane not an hour earlier.

Then your big finale is essentially "And he was never seen again.  The end."  What a shit show.

- Scott
But, but, but... Orsino secretly supported the serial killer and Meredith had the red lyrium idol. That's the response I get when I make the same complaints, like having shitty supporting explanations make the shitty character changes more reasonable and less random. You can't make a character seem reasonable and then just come up with a random out-of-nowhere excuse for them to go insane and expect that to sit well with people. 

In Dark Knight, Two-Face has some sort of reason for going insane. What happened in DA2 would be like if, when Dent was holding his son hostage, Gordon revealed that he had been bitten by a radioactive spider and used webbing to kill Two-Face and become the new crime lord in Gotham.
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Edited By Aaron_G

I sided with the mages pretty much the whole time because Meredith was a crazy bitch. But even if you side with the mages they turn crazy and you have to kill them. It seemed that one side could not win.