Giant Bombcast 586: Functional Shang Tsung!

Thank god it's Tuesday.

I really hope the West crew get around to playing Outer Wilds after E3, it's really something special. I think Brad especially is going to fall in love with it.

Anyways, this podcast made me super excited for E3.

I am totally going to skip Destiny2's newest expansion. Forsaken was a step in the right direction BUT the "year 1 pass" was a total waste of my time and money. Any goodwill that Bungie created with Forsaken was, sadly, killed in the year one pass they released. I want Bungie to succeed but even just seeing how Massive and Ubisoft handled Division 2 a bad taste is in my mouth when I think of Destiny. I wish I felt that "being on their own" was going to really change anything for them.

I think its hilarious to say "these character are beneath Mortal Kombat"...Mortal Kombat is great but its not really...top tier anything.

I don't know what you guys changed but this is the first Bombcast in a long time where all the mics seemed mixed right and weren't hot. Good work!

That CoD preview reminds me of the Far Cry 5 preview: Show and say a lot of edgy stuff to get press talking but the actual game barely represents any of that. It's an effective way to promote a game, it seems.

Tuesdaaay!!

Jeff's gotta stop listening to those Minecraft covers.

I'm with Jeff on the new Mac Pro, that thing looks really cool. I can see in a vacuum it could look a little silly and the holes look kind of big; but imaging it in the context of a studio, an office, or an apartment it definitely has a strong look, especially paired with that insane monitor it has something going for it. The XDR display by the way, which definitely isn't for a typical crowd (even hardcore game players, who might be accustomed to thinking the most expensive things are for them) but I'm sure like...Barry Jenkins will love color grading his next film on one of those.

I think labeling the original RE2 as "unplayable" is eye-rolling. No, you wouldn't release a modern game with tank controls, but the game plays just fine today, as someone who's played it recently.

I'll also note that RE2 (again, original) has a very friendly and supportive speedrunning community.

ETA: Also, if what happened to Videl is any indication, marrying Gohan is just asking to be upstaged and removed from active participation in the storyline. The best for which you can hope is to get the shit beat out of you to motivate your husband.

@indigozeal: It's awesome that there are people that still love and support the game, but I don't think it is an exaggeration or outlandish at all for someone to consider it unplayable. I personally do. I don't think they mean it is unable to be played by anyone.

If there is a proof that what gets put out by Apple today is half out of touch marketing tripe and half irrelevant, there is no better example of that than its $999 monitor stand.

@uninvincible: can you name 10 better games than Outer Wilds in 2019?

death stranding: LOVE CONNECTION EXPERIENCE!!

Lynx is the Australian (and other countries') name for Axe much in the same way like how Burger King was rebranded as Hungry Jack's in Australia.

No it seems like they are struggling quite a bit with hardware these last few years. Shitty keyboards, terrible thermal throttling and now these new reveals that almost seem like they should have just been halo products.

I used to be one of those Apple fanboys 6-7 years ago where i really made sure to defend Apple at every turn when someone brought up shortcomings. I have luckily shed that nasty part of my self and no long own any Apple branded products, and by the looks of things i will never return.

Was there an Aftermath show?

When did Jeff turn into Mr. Hoity Toity? Jesus dude, chill.

@magusmaleficus: What are you talking about?

@indigozeal: Haven't watched yet but this is some hilarious bullshit. I love GB but just like every other gaming outlet they run wild with hyperbole.

Wow, the misinformation about UWP is quite frankly amazing. So the real problem is the bad PR it has, not anything to do with it (people stream Windows Store Games, including "UWP" games just fine on Twitch; you can mod it easily by changing one setting in Settings; and the store is not "I cannot get it work" if you can get it work while installing games to the C drive but have issues with other drives which BTW is also something people sometimes have issues with using Steam; etc.).

I mean, I get it, even the guy who first made Dark Souls usable on PC (and allowed the first mods) didn't know what he was talking about (he claimed you couldn't mod games, but all you had to do was change a setting that anyone using modes would find easy to do).

Eh, whatever - what really matters is that at least MS is giving people store choice - and if you want Game Pass, then you do the MS Store thing, otherwise use Steam (and other store fronts not doing stupid bullshit like one from a certain engine maker).

lots of audio pops and clicks

@magusmaleficus: Nah man, Let Jeff be Jeff. Love all the hot takes, I may not always agree with them but I respect them, especially right before E3.

Not sure if Brad and Jeff got the connection, but Keith David was the voice of Spawn during the late 90s HBO animated series.

I'm sure it's a time and place thing and also I have no real affinity for Spawn, but I recently tried watching that and I thought it was terrible. It seems like they took a lot of inspiration from the (still) brilliant Batman Animated Series but desperately failed in emulating it despite not be shackled by needing to keep it kid friendly (though maybe that contributed to it being bad too - swearing and violence being leaned on as a substitute for good writing).

The discussion on monetization for a game like MTG was kinda painful. Getting rid of packs would remove limited as a format, one of the most popular ways to play. If they were mandated to get rid of booster packs the game would have to make some drastic changes on the most fundamental level

@krismcc: I must be one of the very few that doesn"t ever hear or is sensitive to this shit.

I love the noise mechanical keyboards produce - it brings me great pleasure.

I mean, I could label Super Mario Bros. as "unplayable" because it's an old 2D pixel title, or Overwatch as "unplayable" due to its cartoony art style, or Streets of Rage 2 as "unplayable" because it's a Genesis title and Sega is bad lol (as *someone* has). I'm entitled to hold those positions, but that doesn't mean they should be presented on a prominent gaming podcast as self-evident conclusions.

(I am well aware that many take to tank controls like a fish to concrete, but I think the critical body of work on RE2 has amply demonstrated that the title did and does way too much correctly to dismiss it summarily as Unsafe at Any Speed.)

@indigozeal: I would argue that roughly 90% of game playing people enjoy the games you mentioned more than RE2 simply because of the controls (although I'm just guessing, as someone that still likes all of those games but can'tstand trying to play original RE games anymore). Outside of that, I am not entirely sure what point you're making. That someone shouldn't be able to critique old games because of general replayability issues because some people still love those games?

Cadence of Hyrule is still randomized, their press info from day 1 has said so. We still don't fully know how exactly everything is gonna work, but they explicitly mention "randomly generated overworld and dungeons."

Getting more excited for Control.

The problem with the idea of just having a cosmetic store where you can pay for the specific thing you want is that once you pick the few you like the incentive to keep playing falls off dramatically for a huge portion of the player base. We moved away from the idea of gameplay relevant unlocks but now aren’t satisfied with the current cosmetic unlock system either so what’s next?

As much as we all joke about ‘the numbers going up’ the fact is that without some sort of incentive to work towards the majority of games won’t hold players attention

I can't understand a distaste for garlic, it makes literally any meat better. I dunno, baffling.

And like glots, I really like what I see so far of Control, and really want a new psi-ops game so I've been following...as much as there is out there to follow. I really hope that game is either really good with narrative, or really 'just okay' with narrative, and more just an excuse to let you go nuts with gravity defiance, physics and superpowers. Looks really cool if y'all aint into that epic store thing (get over it already there's cool stuff there).

"Unplayable" is a strong, blanket statement. It doesn't mean that a title is flawed (as most games are) or that it doesn't cater to your tastes; it means that a title has such fundamental rot, be it through misdesign or technical issues, that it absolutely cannot be experienced by anyone. (The title that comes to mind for me is the "unplayable" department is Mohawk & Headphone Jack, whose zoomed-in, constantly-shifting perspective would cause nausea in most players.) Unfortunately, in a case of the rampant hyperbole noted by elite49 above, it's used by far too many people simply to denote: "this game has an element I find inconvenient." It's one of the most overused words in gaming, and the misuse comes from a fundamentally bratty place: I don't like this, so no one else should or can.

Yes, a lot of people don't care for tank controls, and they're generally not used today because audiences are accustomed to 3D movement. However, if their mere presence made something ~*unplayable*~, then games like the early Silent Hills and REs would never, ever be played, and they're some of the most replayed titles in their genre. And that negates the "unplayable" label - because it's a universalized one. If you say that you can't enjoy RE2, I can't negate that statement, because it's a statement of how you feel personally. If you're saying it's "unplayable," I certainly can, because...well, a whole bunch of people are managing to play it just fine. It's *unenjoyable for you*, but it's not "unplayable."

This is a long (though demanded) explanation for a reaction to an offhand comment from Brad that I found eye-rolling, but throwing out the "this is unplayable" claim and presenting it as established fact with which everyone agrees is something more befitting lesser game outlets, certain Jeff opinions excluded. (It's well within GotY Brad's toolbox, but this is June.) You talk about "critique," but the term as it is used is actually anti-critique: it's a knee-jerk dismissal, the amplification and projection of a pet peeve because nuance is boring and intense emotion gets attention. "I don't like this control scheme, and therefore no one should play this, ever." It's a bratty, pearl-clutching hyperbolic and ill-considered reaction.

Like:

"I would argue that roughly 90% of game playing people enjoy the games you mentioned more than RE2 simply because of the controls"

Oh, my God.

Good job. Hit the nail on the head. I'm absolutely shocked how many people are so quick to label games as "unplayable" when they actually mean "kinda janky / harder to control" compared to modern games.

Damn it Ben, your probably right with the 5th November date lol (for Watch Dogs 3)...

@indigozeal: I really appreciated your thoughtful response...and then I got to the end where it felt like you willfully misinterpreted what I was saying just to call me a brat, and I was reminded then of the endless, cyclical fights you would get in over Altered Beast and...no thanks. I am thankful that you pointed out what you meant when asked (not demanded), and while I don't entirely agree with you, this is where I leave the discussion.

@billmcneal: I was wondering the same thing. Can't see it on the site...

Folks, everything is subjective. I consider original Star Fox unplayable, even at the time. But if you grew up playing it and loved it, it's not hard for you to play it today and get right back in the groove. My opinion of it doesn't lower or sully your love for it and Visa versa.

Huh that's funny when they got to the "games that could use a remake", Super Mario World was the first one to come to mind. I just played it recently for the first time and didn't think it controlled well. Just feels like Mario has permanent roller blades on.

I played through the original Resident Evil 2 again not that long ago, and I personally feel like that game holds up very well. Tank controls have just never bothered me.

Haha "Sam Bridges" bridging connections within the theme of connections, I'm soooo in... Just wonderful.

@sethmode: I think the reaction (not you personally) falls into a category of responses I feel are "bratty" in that they're putting undue priority on one's personal feelings in a non-rational manner, as described above. I do not mean any personal offense to you (I recognized your screenname in the back of my mind but didn't realize from where) and am willing to substitute "hyperbolic and ill-considered," as I see how my word choice could be interpreted as a personal attack. (I retain my "Oh, my God.")

I will brook no argument, however, regarding my Altered Beast assertions, which history and video have proven completely correct, right down to the final boss strategy. That book is closed. (And you were the one - the only one - who kept weirdly coming after me on that topic, by the way. On a game you had never even played! Man, remembering all that puts your comments here in perspective. I almost wanna rescind my rescission now.)

@jstaunton: aftermath is up now