The boys are away so today we have a special episode featuring Mary Kish from Twitch, Riana from What's Good Games, and Merrit K from Fanbyte! We discuss games like Tell Me Why, Paradise Killer, and the Last Campfire. Also, listen close for amazing first date ideas as well as our terrible nick names!
The Giant Bomb East team gathers to talk about the week in video games, their lives, and basically anything that interests them. All from New York City!
Producer's Note: Hello, Abby here! It has come to my attention that there have been allegations against Merritt K, one of our guests on the podcast today. I didn't learn about these allegations until halfway through the podcast livestream when I looked at chat.
I do my best to bring on diverse voices and guests to GB, while also maintaining an inclusive space for everyone. We try to vet our guests to assure GB is a safe and inclusive space for everyone and I have failed that for this episode. Unfortunately, sometimes with these allegations they may seem very loud in certain circles but are silent in others. In this case, I simply did not know these allegations even existed before today.
If you would like to speak to us directly about these allegations or anything else, you can email beastcast@giantbomb.com. I read every email. Thanks.
The note sucks and isn't enough, the majority of folks who listen to this episode will never see it (even the youtube description makes no mention of anything) and Merritt will continue to get a pass. Leaving this podcast on the site as it is is a bad look and I'd honestly just scrap it.
Having looked into it more, are people really conflating old subtweets of Merrit’s with the sexual/power abuses of people like Alec Holowka and Matt Conn?
If you’re familiar with Merrit’s work at Fanbyte, a site that platforms queer writer after queer writer and is fundamentally a force for work and social equality, it’s unfathomable to me how y’all can attack her this way.
The tweets in question are unnecessary, petty even. But abuse? Not even close. Get some perspective, I beg you.
As someone who has seen her slip past all consequences over and over for years, seeing Merritt show up here was pretty disappointing. Even before those allegations were made, there were things she said on Twitter publicly that made me deeply uncomfortable with her being so popular.
But it’s disappointing not because I think it was hypocritical, I just think it points to issues with any vetting process that’s been put in place. I am *glad* that the staff is taking a stronger stance on who they let on their platform. And I fully believe Abby didn’t know anything about the issues with Merritt going in, so I don’t think she’s betrayed that stance or shown that the stance is an issue. But that she didn’t know anything is kinda the root of the problem here - Merritt is someone who has never faced consequences from her peers that should have said something, and those peers have also failed to warn newcomers like Abby.
But with this stronger commitment having a responsible platform, there is a need to be pro-active about looking into stuff like this. It’s definitely awkward to assume there might be stuff out there about someone who seems well-liked... but just because you haven’t heard about something doesn’t mean it’s not out there. I don’t know if the process just isn’t thought out enough or some corners were cut due to a rush to fill more guest spots, or what, but the unfortunate truth is that you can’t just not vet people because other people you know seem to approve of them - that’s how we get situations like this or Max Temkin. And he’s absolutely the situation to compare to here, not Pascual. Anyone bringing only Pascual up like that to complain does not make me think they actually care about the site being a place that avoids causing harm to others.
All that being said- I will agree with others that it’d be much much better to put a note at the front of the audio, though. It’s certainly appreciated that something was said, but plenty of people will not see the note here at all and will listen without knowing. It would be best to avoid letting that happen if possible.
Having looked into it more, are people really conflating old subtweets of Merrit’s with the sexual/power abuses of people like Alec Holowka and Matt Conn?
If you’re familiar with Merrit’s work at Fanbyte, a site that platforms queer writer after queer writer and is fundamentally a force for work and social equality, it’s unfathomable to me how y’all can attack her this way.
The tweets in question are unnecessary, petty even. But abuse? Not even close. Get some perspective, I beg you.
yeah it's really gross that people are lumping her in with abusers when none of the receipts people have posted point to anything even close to that level. The disproportionate response here is baffling. It's literally just people repeating a meme that she has said bad things with pretty much no receipts, all hearsay and second-hand accounts at best
@onlineatron: No, they’re seriously not conflating those. The only reason Holowka is coming is because when he was being talked about, I guess someone in a Waypoint thread about it discussed Merritt and linked to some of the things about her.
But nobody is saying the subtweets rank up there or even the gross stuff about bi or non-binary people (some of which I saw myself at the time). That is absolutely not why. It’s the other actual accusations of abuse. Zoe3DBlast’s post links to one of the threads, but the same person wrote an article in more detail as well.
@johnyr: well when they made a huge deal out of it a month or two ago, it seems a little hypocritical when a similar guest is invited on so people are a little rightfully upset
There should have been better vetting, but I understand mistakes happen. But as a queer person in the GB community, I’m beyond disappointed that this was still published without at least an audio disclaimer. The disclaimer in the post text didn’t even get pushed to most podcast apps.
If you actually care about the allegations, pull the episode so Merritt can’t use a GB experience to gain more fans.
Merritt has been a problem for years! If you are just learning about her now, don't be so quick to say "oh no cancel culture is at it again"
I really feel for Abby being left to handle the show by herself. I mean, look at some of the names that still follow Merritt on twitter! I can see how Abby would feel safe inviting her, but it is still a mistake and it still sucks.
Had no idea who she was, saw folks were upset she was here, tried looking up allegations and couldn't find anything at first but then...oof. Dang. Turns out she hates people like me. But I don't blame Abby one bit. I didn't know either and I'm usually on the ball with this kinda stuff.
@onlineatron: I can still see it (and double checked in a private browser, so it’s not just cached). Could you possibly be blocked or else have something blocking it on your end?
Now, here’s something to get ahead of - that Twitter user, Porpentine *also* has abuse allegations against her. But from what I’ve seen, I strongly lean towards this situation being that people who have been hurt can go on to hurt others, or hurt each other. I haven’t seen anything that positions what’s said about Merritt as false, just that Porpentine has done similar things herself. Along those lines, worth noting that there are other people than Porpentine who have talked about her, just not at that length (not just that Twitter thread as she’s written more separately before she named Merritt). And it’s hard to talk about this stuff in a place like this because I feel that people will pretty readily dismiss anything that isn’t easy to follow. And the group of people we’re talking about here is essentially part of a slightly older LGBT/more academic-ish games scene that has kinda faded from prominence to the point that it’s unlikely people who are mostly used to the AAA industry + more recent indie developers will recognize any of these names, even though they actually aren’t nobodies by any means - Porpentine, for example, was a very well known name in the Interactive Fiction community for a while thanks to her Twine games. But, well, abuse doesn’t stop being abuse just because it’s harder to piece together the context.
Also, I forgot to say this before, but to the people asking for evidence of the bad stuff she’s said separate from the allegations: it is totally understandable, but at some point what you’re asking for is screenshots of bad deleted (but not apologized for) tweets from like 2 years ago, more or less. And it can be a little hard to dig those up. I understand being wary, certainly, and I’m not asking you to just blindly trust people... but I saw some of that myself and I currently have 0 reason to doubt the people I trust who have issues with her for the instances I didn’t see.
I think what makes the note worse is knowing that y'all became aware of the accusations and then... recorded another 90 minutes of podcast? It'd be unpleasant but not the end of the world to say "oops no emails this week," privately apologize to the other two guests and go back to the drawing board instead of continuing to engage and goof off with an abuser for well over an hour longer.
I don’t blame Abby for not knowing because I didnt either but hopefully this gets addressed next week.
The number of people in the industry who seem not to care at all about the Merritt stuff seems to be a pretty long list judging by how many people follow her and are friendly with her on Twitter still and then also work at fanbyte.
Abby, you're an absolute badass. Thank you for the note. Though this was an unfortunate scenario, please do more casts like this with new voices! It's so important.
As for all the "Do better" attitude in chat, keep in mind that you can make your comments/notes with care? This was clearly something that wasn't brewing in the open. I agree that we shouldn't give bad actors a megaphone but if what you want is to bolster new voices, this is going to happen now and again. I'm sure more action will be taken, the cast went up only hours ago.
@zoe3dblast: thanks. this is more concerning for sure.
that said, there are queer artists i see who seem to have relationships with porpentine who also have relationships with merrit and i wonder if that would be the case if there was ongoing animosity. i just see too many good people who support merrit to fully dismiss her. but perhaps that’s part of the problem?
anyway, i’m starting to feel incredibly icky playing internet sleuth in this manner so i reckon this’ll be the last i say.
@onlineatron: Sorry to keep one-sides replying but I want to say I appreciate you being receptive to learning about this stuff. It is pretty much as you say - a huge part of the problem here is that people have at least *implicitly* still supported her and it’s kept anything said against her from getting traction. Cause, well, you can look at that list and go “hmm, that doesn’t sound right, if that was true then they...”, etc. etc.
There are some overly self-righteous people in here.
Maybe you all should learn how to hold someone accountable for a mistake without tearing them down.
Seriously, our culture supports people that claim to be a bastions of positivity, but they use negativity and hate to bolster their moral high ground. I'm not saying we shouldn't hold people accountable for their actions, but maybe hold them accountable in a caring and understanable way, because all humans make mistakes.
I know vetting processes are a pain in the ass, and none of us have access to their process in regards to that, but this is yet another example of how poor GiantBomb in general have been at it over the years? And I know that's a greater industry/societal issue too, but it's too common.
Sad to see GB being so vocal and over the top about situations like these weeks ago and now repeat the exact same mistakes after promising they were going to be better about it. Honestly I think there's still a difference between accusations and actual evidence, but when they started to treat both as the same and actively engaged with these issues they should've realized the responsibilities it entails. I don't expect them to be detectives combing over the entire internet to make sure if it's "safe" to have each guest, specially when the waters are so muddy, but after their serious statements regarding a "zero policy" and "always believe the accusers" on such sensitive issues like these, I was expecting them to practice what they preach.
And while I appreciate that a note was added, I don't think that's really enough as these notes only reach people who came to listen to the episode on the desktop version of the website and as they have mentioned multiple times, the vast majority of their podcast audience listen to the audio version on other apps.
edit: I don't like to be so negative, so on a positive note I want to add that Mary Kish is awesome and I wish she was a guest more often.
Honestly, it must be exhausting to be involved in games media.
You have to be near omniscient and ready to denounce someone at the drop of a hat, while wondering when your head is gonna be put on the chopping block.
People are acting like this guest is David Duke, when the actual allegations are extremely hard to even parse when you read the twitter threads etc. This is not to speak to the truth of what is being said, I really couldn’t know, but I can’t even figure out clearly what is being alleged.
Its not a groundbreaking opinion, but i really do feel that a lot of people are just rubber necking and enjoy a good pile-on. This is regardless of whether its merited or without much consideration to the vagaries of a particular case.
@mailbox225: Yeah I think this is about where I'm at... I think believing accusers is important (and probably supersedes everything else) but I'm also a little uncomfortable with lack of nuance in how people are judged - seems you're either a saint or a complete scumfuck with no in-between.
Unfortunately I think they made it a bit worse on themselves with the calling out of Matt Pascual which also seemed to be for something quite low on the spectrum of bad behavior.. they've essentially set a precedent which people will expect them to follow... but who gets to be the judge of what crosses the line... the crew? the audience? me? Guess everyone will need to make up their own minds.
Will finish with something positive, I really commend Abby for hosting an all-female 'cast, respect.
All this complaining is tedious and very unfair on Abby.
I mean you either hold others and yourself to a higher standard or you don't there is no fair or unfair here. You can't be Waypoint only half the time, you're either in or you're out.
I just want to say that "do better." is the most condescending fucking response possible to this sort of thing. That goes for when Abby said it a few weeks ago too. Regardless of the severity of the situation, it makes you sound like a holier than thou douche.
@lskaze: "Maybe you all should learn how to hold someone accountable for a mistake without tearing them down."
Hey, please teach me how to hold them accountable without taking any action what so ever, AND without coming across as self-righteous. In what way do we keep people accountable if we're not using our voice to make our disapproval heard? Am I going to have to take her to court? Do I need to write something on paper? Do I try to set up a citizen's tribunal? Could you lay out a framework for how we can make it clear to someone that their behavior is fucked up without saying anything? Or did you just mean to say "stfu"?
If you read about the allegations, which seem credible, then you wouldn't go "There are some overly self-righteous people in here." You don't have to be self-righteous to judge obviously shitty behavior. All that's needed is empathy and a disgust with exploiters and scumbags. She didn't cut the line at the gas station.. She didn't steal a DVD.. If you feel like you have to be a self-righteous ass to call her out on her shit, that just speaks to how high the bar is for you specifically in terms of calling people out.
Still a total shitbag move to tell people, who voice their objection to her being on the podcast, that they are "self-righteous" though. Nothing self-righteous about it at all. Sometimes people are shitty, if you don't call them out, fair enough. No need to throw shade at those who do. Just silently side with those who don't.
Disappointed in merritt k appearing on what would have otherwise been a great podcast. I've seen the note, and can't imagine the pressure of having to produce shows remotely right now.
However, I think merritt's appearance is more emblematic of a larger problem in that, her actions and allegations are known in sections of the community at large. That Abby or other staff weren't aware is more reflective of a large problem in the game's press, and at giant bomb. To prevent people like merritt, or tempkin, appearing on giant bomb, there needs to be actual representation of LGTBQ and BIPOC folks on staff. Show notes and apologies aren't enough.
All this complaining is tedious and very unfair on Abby.
I mean you either hold others and yourself to a higher standard or you don't there is no fair or unfair here. You can't be Waypoint only half the time, you're either in or you're out.
Before I found out about this it was nice to see the image of an all female cast for this week's podcast, just to shame to hear that one of them may be a disappointing person.
Fantastic episode in general barring the extremely unfortunate situation about the allegation history for one guest, but I also couldn't find details out upon searching.
While I agree with some of the voices here that it may be beneficial to add some kind of preroll message in the podcast itself (or in the description on podcast services) rather than it just putting it on this page, I understand the difficulties in doing so immediately.
Regardless, thank you for putting this together, Abby.
@mattcorb7: Not just "some of the names" that still follow her; the Beastcast's own Alex Navarro tweets back and forth with her fairly regularly.
Having followed this stuff a little bit for a few years, it seems that the entire queer indie games community is full of awful, self-centered people who prey on one another over and over again. The abused turn around and abuse others. The cycle continues. All the time. Jesus Christ.
The two face people that say who are we to judge someone but are the same people that have created cancel culture and push it further, a little ironic. Obviously Abby didn't know and if she did that isn't a good look
Sounds like a lot of you are finally tired of the mob coming after individuals over social media accusations. It's almost like having a bunch of blue check marks decide who "just made a mistake" and who's intentions were truly heinous is a horrible idea. It's ALMOST like the witch hunt has gotten out of hand, has turned in to Mccarthyism, and can't be stopped. Only a matter of time before they come after you for your past transgressions, or a game of 'telephone' gets played with a statement you had made at work. What truly makes me sick is that I think that's the only reason some of you are starting to change your tune. You all reap what you sow.
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